Unconditional Love (does not exist)

[bigneil]

He's using her for sex. She's using him for money. So what's the problem again?

Isn't that like saying a car dealer is only using you for money when you buy a car? Is Hydrogen just using Oxygen when it combines to make water?
Two people either provide eachother fair market value or not.

Men and women are not equal. Men seek fertility and women seek resources to raise a family with. Together they reproduce. They can't be exactly the same. For example, your girlfriend might sleep with you for free, but if she has to do 10 table dances a night to pay your rent, shouldn't you buy her out? 51% of women cheat with people they meet at work. Don't sell her out then.

I love when older women say "he left me for a younger woman but once the money is gone, see if she stays with him" - as if the older woman would stay with a broke guy?

As Drew Carey said "I want a woman who is not only beautiful, but kind and caring like an ugly woman."

Love is not unconditional. Even your pet will leave you if you stop feeding it.

What I wonder is: when people say "This person is using that person", isn't it mostly sour grapes? People refer to "love" which is a fleeting, undefined concept, but you are either satisfied at the moment or not.

 

[cola]

Jaded view point. What about the man who gets layed off and the woman stays? Or the woman who can't reproduce and they compromise to adopt? There is unconditional love its just rare. Love is what makes life worth living. If its no love why be here?

51% of women don't cheat with someone at work. I work in nursing with all females and I'm sexy. But I didn't bang 51% of the chicks here.. maybe 8% of em. Why sour people with your pessimism? If what you say you believe why are you here? You don't need to seduce you could just buy hoes with that perspective

 

[zekko]

What I wonder is: when people say "This person is using that person", isn't it mostly sour grapes?

Yes.

Sounds like you have a good grasp on the concept of attraction. Men want women for their beauty and sex. Women want men for their ability to provide and protect.

Not all women will leave a guy when he loses his income, but it's a fairly common occurrence.

 

[cola]

What about a rich girl who marries a broke Guy?
I.e, Oprah/steadman or Brittney /Kfed..
Or an elitely attractive Guy with a average/below average wife?
LL cool j/ Matt Damon
Its because middle class people have trouble finding real love because their so focused on survival. Take away desperation on both ends and you'll find true love

 

[bigneil]

I think a good analogy is this: do men care if women have money? Sort of, but honestly how often do we sit around thinking "why can't I find a rich girl?" Could it be that women feel the same way about attractive men? Think of the cavemen who settled for a rich old girl, or a woman who only wanted pretty cave men. They didn't live on to propagate their genes. When a women is too rich or a man too pretty, they are rarely nice people.

By 51% I was referring to a percentage of those who cheat. In other words, if a woman cheats (and a good percentage do), chances are she met him at work.

You can't "buy hoes" because you can't pay for them to LIKE the sex. And if they don't like the sex, it's a net loss of energy versus a net gain. On the other hand, if you meet a stripper who is highly attracted to you, there is no shame paying IMO. If both people like the sex, it's a good relationship. Sure, if Anna Nicole Smith was grimacing every time she did J. Arther Oldguy VII, that's not cool.

This idea that men and women are equal and we should both work and pay 50% and love eachother for who we are is BS.

 

[ilikecharlene]

between children and parents, maybe.

 

[bigneil]

Yes, family love is different. Sad that having children doesn't make couples love eachother like family anymore.

 

[C-quenced]

Jaded view point. What about the man who gets layed off and the woman stays? Or the woman who can't reproduce and they compromise to adopt? There is unconditional love its just rare. Love is what makes life worth living. If its no love why be here?

51% of women don't cheat with someone at work. I work in nursing with all females and I'm sexy. But I didn't bang 51% of the chicks here.. maybe 8% of em. Why sour people with your pessimism? If what you say you believe why are you here? You don't need to seduce you could just buy hoes with that perspective

Your trying to build a logical argument on a illogical premise. Call it what you will but it's a realistic view point.

 

[floydb25]

Eh... You're talking about society in general. This doesn't apply to everyone. There's still decent, genuine people out there who get involved for the right reasons. Fat chance of finding them amongst the hot / status-driven crowd, though.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Dude of course unconditional love exists. You see it all the time, albeit not in the public spotlight or the focus of forums like this. Think of the woman who loves her child despite his major mental deficiency or physical ability -- think of a child who gets third degree burns and his mother or father still care about them. Think about the meth head daughter whose parents are *still* hoping she can find the path to recovery.

I am not trying to highlight sob stories. But there is truth in the fact that there are some pretty terrible things people have done or been through and despite the pain or struggle, someone loved them.

Now when we talk about a thing between a man and a woman most normally this begins in the context of sex...is sex love? Is cuddling or kissing or fvcking love? Sex can lead, or be preceded by romance..and romance can grow into love...

I suppose a person could change 100% at random for the very worst. And this could destroy things. But bad sh!t of all sort happens, we just can't focus on that or live completely in fear around such assumptions. Maybe accept the reality of the possibility but focus on the desired outcome.

But there are stories all of the time of people who have gone through great loss or pain and stuck together. Perhaps cliche but look at Christopher Reeves right; he gets paralyzed, she stays with him, and for the love of god the woman dies within a year of him of lung cancer and never smoked. She said in some article (after the accident) she loved him even more.

So I mean c'mon man, we've all been burned like fvck from bullsh!t relationships -- we or *I* may never find love like Christopher Reeves, but there are examples of very strong bonds out there.

Maybe part of finding a strong love is working to become a person who can deliver the same things that we are seeking from another.

 

[bigneil]

For the most part, unconditional love only exists with family members. It's too rare in couples to count on, and love has a nasty habit of disappearing overnight (you can't bank on it).

I didn't mean this thread as a negative though. On the contrary, it was pointing out that it's often a positive relationship when people say "X is only using Y", and the naysayers should be ignored.

 

[Diaforetikos]

Unconditional love is real, but humans struggle with it. That's why it seems impossible or false. And yea we want women for sex. But women want men for sex as well. That doesn't mean we're using each other. We desire each others bodies first. Then personalities and things are desired after the fact.

Now lets think about this... What is love? Once we answer that, the unconditional part is then laid in.

Love basically is the sacrifice of oneself for another by way of different means. So sacrificing ones time or ones desires. Sacrificing ones wealth or ones friends. Even sacrificing ones anger and hatred towards another (unfortunately hatred must be stated as it is constantly overlooked as the opposite of love).

It doesn't sound pleasant... the whole idea of sacrificing who you are for someone else, but that's what love is... basically. And I'm just being extremely general here. Unconditional love would then mean sacrificing one self for the benefit of another at no cost... Assuming with a well intended heart. That doesn't mean that a well intended heart does well. It just means well.

If we really want to know what love looks like, quote New Testament Bible verses that talk about love. One of the best definitions of love is in the Bible.

 

[bigneil]

But women want men for sex as well. That doesn't mean we're using each other. We desire each others bodies first.

I disagree somewhat. While men want women's bodies first, women want men to be providers first. They must be or the offspring won't survive. There is no way a cavewoman chose a pretty caveboy over a caveman who had resources. Again, stop and consider how much you value a woman having lots of money. It's probably just not that important to you. It's a nice-to-have. Sure, some men insist a woman be wealthy, but most of us would rather die than live off a woman. Likewise, most women would rather die than see their children starving.

Chances are, if a man is a good provider, he is healthy and therefore has a nice body also.

(unfortunately hatred must be stated as it is constantly overlooked as the opposite of love).

Hate is the negative of love, but apathy is the opposite of love.

I see love simply as an addiction to a person.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

No more of this asset on broke dating.

I was a victim for almost 2 years. I brought the assets to the relationship and she brought the ass in the relationship for a good year. She really didn't benefit me one bit at all. She ate my food, took my money, drove my car. Then after a year she witheld sex from me and I was sittin depressed for half a year until she dumped me.

Guys if you want to be in a relationship with a girl make sure it is asset on asset. and sex is not an asset. It is entertainment!

Woman do not want sex first. They want security, they want assets. They could get sex anytime they want from a majority of guys.

I don't believe in unconditional love. They only unconditional love that exists is between blood. If you don't think thats true act like a chump to your girlfriend and see how long until she cheats on you. To be honest when you start to care more about yourself and less about your significant other you will see your life become way bettter.

AJ's two cents.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

For the most part, unconditional love only exists with family members. It's too rare in couples to count on, and love has a nasty habit of disappearing overnight (you can't bank on it).

Agree. Unconditional love may not exist (romantic relationship) but this kind of love does exist:

http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Love-Dealing-Partners-Personality/dp/1886230803/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_6

 

[TheMale]

watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVLVR4nc54g - part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmI5y_WoCcQ - part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAisiLpi1Tw - part 3

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I don't believe in unconditional love. They only unconditional love that exists is between blood. If you don't think thats true act like a chump to your girlfriend and see how long until she cheats on you. To be honest when you start to care more about yourself and less about your significant other you will see your life become way bettter.

Pretty solid words.

 

[cola]

It exists. My friend was in jail for 6 years and asked me to keep a eye on his girl. Thid chick never cheated on him even after he gave her permission. He came home she bought him new clothes, gave him a roof over his head and was elated when he got a minimum wage job at mcdonalds.. Whats kind of love is that?

 

[backbreaker]

The issue isn't black and white. I think the question is framed wrong, but for ****s and giggles, to put it simplistically I don't believe in unconditional love.

The premise being that unconditional love means I will stay with you no matter what trials and tribulations that may happen with you.

A person, will always do what they feel is in their best long term interest. Their best long term interest might not be clear to you at the time and hell it might not even logically make sense, but they will do what at that time, they feel is in their best interest long term.

Let me give you an example. I've talked about him before here some of the people who have been here a while know that my mothers step dad, killed a man about 3 months before i was born. Without getting into specifics, the dude had it comin, but still, he killed a man, had to go to prison. The first, 20 some odd years of my life I think I saw him what... no more than 10-15 times, all at prison. We'd get in the car, me and my cousins and my grand mom would take us dfown there to go see him. this **** went on for 2 decades. never cheated. never dated anyone else. hell she moved to pine bluff from little rock just so she could see him every weekend.

this whole f'n time, she stays with him. she has all these plans for him to get a job and **** when he gets out. and you know him being in prison he's sweet talking her about how he is changed and **** and how he is going to find honest work and do **** the right way.. so he gets out.. not 2-3 days after he is out he's running the streets lol.

Even though this.. doesn't cheat. doesn't come home. starts drinking too much, rinse, wash repeat, gets his parole violated, goes back to prison, grandmom, pretty just shut off contact with him at that point on. filed for a divorce.

My grandmother, just.. putting the cards on the table, really doesn't have a lot going for her. she is not educated, she's not very intelligent, I mean **** she's over 60 now so who is she going to find?? hell she was almost 40 when he got locked up. she figured she couldn't find a man, at least another one, that late in the game. at that point, she was better off sticking with him than going back out looking for another man.

it wasn't until he got re locked back up, that she realized he never was going to change and forced herself to go out and start dating, and the guys she dated.. really weren't much better than my grand dad, if not worse. one was a crackhead, hell he stole my damn car and sold it for drugs.

yeah, my granddad wasn't great, but he wasn't a crackhead thief either. and he was a good looking strong, alpha male. But when he got re locked back up, the crackhead thief, actually provided the better long term potential albeit as bleak as it may be.

Women aren't being virtuous by " being faithful" they are being calculating.


And you know what, today.. I can accept that for what it is. Rollo just had in one of his recent blogs touch on this point.. how much money you make, what you look like.. some men don't' want to hear it but.. all that **** is in fact apart of who you are.

Not all women will leave a guy when he loses his income, but it's a fairly common occurrence.

A woman will leave you when she thinks her future is better with you out of the picture than it's with you in it. You may lose your job but she she might have faith that you get another one. you might go to jail but you are getting out and she thinks your future will be bright with her in it.

the second a woman thinks her future is better without you in the picture you haven o value to her. that's just the truth.

that's something i can accept today.

 

[TheMale]

A person, will always do what they feel is in their best long term interest. Their best long term interest might not be clear to you at the time and hell it might not even logically make sense, but they will do what at that time, they feel is in their best interest long term.

well said !

people always looking to serve their own interest/principle/value.
they'll never go against it, because for them, they'll never do something harmful to themselves.

even if it's seems, at first, that it's for you, or she's serving your value, it's not !
it's like (yeah it's not love but kinda same thing) you are an alpha and beta people trying to be around you, why ? because you are doing something that serve their value.
can be that they dont like to go out and turn around don't know what to do, you are here to set the plan for the night.
can be the fact that you're getting into a place for free and by themselves they cant.
no matter what that's human kind !

i have a friend who where at the marines, he was married and have a little baby.
(they are jewish, orthodox, it's 4,5 dates, without touching each other and marry after 3 months) after a while they figured out that it's not what it use to be etc. but they didnt divorce, and she decided that, you know why ?
because for his wife divorce imply that she's gonna be a divorced mother, and that it'll be hard to find someone else in this situation, plus she don't wanna get into all this processe of divorcing, and the processe of looking for someone etc. etc.
so now they are not together but they're not divorce, and it's a situation that are perfect for his wife !

i always said that love don't exist, its a mix between sexual attraction, passion ans HABIT
yeah, habit. people may dont want to get into all the processe again (dating seduction and stuff) so they just sticking to the one they are use too, after all they'll have sex more often than someone who's getting into the processe of seduction again .