Unattractive girls are similar to most guys

[Trader]

I was having a convo with a female friend of mine and she opened my eyes to something. She went on this rant that unattractive females ( she is unattractive and admits it) generally have the same dating success as what we will refer to as an AFC.

Several points. First off, what your female friend is talking about is average girls getting relationships (i.e. dating), not average girls getting sex. Those are two very different things.

She states that many unattractive girls are frustrated by the same behaviors that guys have to learn to deal with. She also stated that many average to unattractive girls are willing to accept any half decent normal guy who is not a loser.

I find this to be true with the average looking female girls that I know. One girl even said: 'Yes, as long as he is not too bad.'

She also stated that much of the behavior of attractive women which includes the flaking, mixed signals, ***** shields and generally manipulative behavior is not biologically motivated. It is a product of having alot of sexual options. If it were purely evolutionary even ugly chicks would behave this way.

I agree with this. It is not biologically motivated. Girls simply have to weed out the losers. Flip it. Most of us here have lots of options when it comes to girls, don't you find yourself exhibiting that exact mindset that girls have? You want to get rid of the stupid girls, so you tend to 'test' girls to see if they are even worth your time, you will 'NEXT' girls that give you BS.

She told me that most average girls are frustrated by guys because it seems like desirable guys are chasing all the hot girls. She claims that ugly- average girls and AFC's are plagued by many of the same problems like mixed signals and flakiness when dealing with the opposite sex.

Oh I agree with this. I have had average looking girls complain how all the same girls are getting all the attention. Hey not my problem.

This is interesting because we generally tend to think that all females have no real dating problems. That they can get their sexual and relationship desires fulfilled anytime they want. This may only be the case for very attractive women. Most females in the world are not attractive, its just that we do not notice them. The top 20% of attractive females must live in a reality totally divorced from the experiences of un attractive females. If my friend is correct then by changing the social forces that give attractive women so much leverage sexually, one can get them to act more like the ugly down to earth girl. According to her their selective behavior is not evolutionary but merely social conditioning. What do you guys think?

Average looking girls can get sex, but it is somewhat difficult for them to pull quality long-term relationships with a high-quality guy. That is what your female friend was complaining about.

Yes I find there is a big difference between the way an unattractive girl behaves and how an attractive girl behaves. It's as if they are living in 2 different worlds. The difference is just as stark as with the DJ and AFC.

 

[edger]

Most of us here have lots of options when it comes to girls

You pull a lot of attractive women, Trader? Now I know in the past you've made it clear you're not a good-looking guy, if I can recall correctly, right? So, I'd like to know then, what's putting you at an advantage? Is it your game, wealth, status?

 

[Stagger Lee]

Women's sex drive is set in a cyclic pattern that matches their monthly ovulatory cycle, whereas men's reamains realitively constant and subject to environemental arousal. Women are significantly more prone to arousal (and sexual activity) when they're at the peak of their fertility in their ovulatory cycle (i.e. their highest point of testosterone production) - usually week 2 after their last menstruation. A parallel to this is the daily "morning wood" cycle in men. The highest testosterone levels men experience is within the first hours before and after waking from sleep. This is due to the body's buildup of hormones and endocrines (serotonin, melotonin, etc.) needed to produce recouperative, restful sleep. Thus the tendency to wake up with a raging hard-on.

That's not to say environmental or psychological factors don't apply to women's sexual arousal, but it is to say that the comparison of the female libido being equitable to male libido is fantasy. The biological comparison of sex drive to what prompts drug abuse is completely misleading. There are no unconditioned environmental prompts that motivate a person to use drugs - uneducated, a person doesn't instinctively know that a certain herb or mushroom will get them high, but they will instinctually become sexually aroused by environmental prompts. The Playboy centerfold is still going to give you a hard-on whether you've previously experienced one or not.

I don't say that women and men with their respective estrogen and testosterone levels have the exact same sex drive. They each definitely have a different type of drive and expresson. But as far as libido goes I think there's a lot more to it than just testosterone level. There are women with normal female levels of test. that have high libidos, and there are males with high testosterone with low libidos.

When I used the drug use analogy, it was only to demonstrate the point that drives don't have to be hormone based. But what I had more in mind is I don't know how many times I've heard that female virgins never really felt the need for sex but after having sex the first time they wanted it all the time.

I guess if you define libido as desire to actually have sex, then the average woman probably does have a lower libido than an average man. But women are still very sexual and I think there's more to sex drive than testosterone or estrogen levels.

 

[Trader]

You pull a lot of attractive women, Trader? Now I know in the past you've made it clear you're not a good-looking guy, if I can recall correctly, right? So, I'd like to know then, what's putting you at an advantage? Is it your game, wealth, status?

First off, when you say *pull* a lot of attractive women, it probably has a different meaning for both of us.

You mentioned you like to go to clubs and bars to pick up girls. I don't do cold-approaches. My style is to emphasize fun so I just build up my social network (guys and girls) and meet new girls that way. I usually don't cold approach - that's not my style.

Also when you say that I'm not a *good-looking guy* - let's be clear on that. If you define looks as height, beautiful facial features, etc, then yes I am not particuarly good-looking probably a 4 or a 5.

But one of the biggest lessons I learned is that girls do not see *looks* per se, they see only sexuality (thanks to Pook for that insight). For example, take a guy with beautiful facial features (looks) but no sense of style, he just wears faded jeans and a plain shirt. He lacks sexuality.

So I made it a point to jack up my sexuality. I work out, and dress to the nines (Hugo Boss, Club Monaco) and I have a very trendy haircut (total asian style), nice watch (Monavo).

What was so funny was that, one time us guys and girls were talking about *looks.* And they were like: 'Hey, rate yourself on looks.' So I told them: 'I think I am a 4 or a 5 on the looks scale.' And all the girls were like: 'No way, how can you score yourself that low? You are way higher, like a 7 or an 8.'

That's when I knew what Pook said was true, girls don't see *looks* per se, they only see sexuality.

Yes - my advantage is definitely game. But I hestitate to use the word *game* - it's not shortcuts or tricks per se, but a truly genuinely attractive personality.

Let me give you an example. I worked hard to develop my generosity. I tip very nicely and I am willing to extend a helping hand to friends. So in my social network I am obviously very popular - cause I bring fun and display loyalty to friends.

If you couple that with all the traditional DJ principles espoused here, such as 'I am the Prize' - 'qualify her always' - 'reframe so that you lead always' and of course 'embrace your sexuality always.' So I am basically DHVing all the time.

Now if you are talking about getting girls into bed quickly, you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't specialize in getting girls in bed, I specialize in getting attractive girls into RELATIONSHIPS.

I am still a virgin (christian). But I have had 5 girls in my social network (all HB7 and up) this past year, who want to get into long-term relationships with me. This one girl in my social circle, HB9 recently asked me to go on vacation with her to Florida for two weeks, me and her. I turned her down cause I was busy. And her friend was like: 'Hey why did you reject her, she is so into you! She is looking for a boyfriend.'

Right now I have another girl (HB8) currently. I have taken her out (casual dating) twice. I brought her to this New Year's eve party, and all the other girls in my social network were like: 'What the? Oh wow she is so beautiful.' Talk about major social proof - so my reputation just grows and grows in my social group - automatic DHV.

So yes our styles probably differ, you seem to go for quick sex pick-up style. My goal is just to expand my social circle and get girls naturally, I focus on just having fun.

You probably are way better than me at getting girls into bed after meeting them in a club.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Trader, you haven't even fvcked a girl or done cold approaches so I don't see how your advice is based on experience or relavent to what most guys are trying to do. I don't even know if you been in a "relationship" although you just said a HB9 was interested in one. You are 27 so I don't know what you are waiting for.

However I think your advice might be applicable to get a GF from a church social circle, and I think you should focus on that and I'm all ears. The only problem is I'm not sure if you actually have had these relationships. Until you have fvcked girls successfully, cold approached or at elast be in a relationship even if it doesn't include sex, it's not really proven advice from personal experience.