ultimate lost theory (super long)

[penkitten]

you might be right... i haven't had time to ponder it long enough...
i will say your idea is the most creative that i have ever seen.

this show is like an action packed soap opera to be honest, and it's done in such a mega creative way, that no other show can beat it.

 

[joekerr31]

JEEZ Joekerr!

Did you type all this out yourself? I'm impressed! I thought you were going to watch all 3 seasons first?

Man I stopped reading halfway through.....

It was so good, I was starting to worry that you've spoiled it...

haha. ya, i typed it all up. im a fast typer. no one has been able to figure Lost out so far, so i figured i'd give it a shot.

im pretty darn confident that I have.

 

[joekerr31]

you might be right... i haven't had time to ponder it long enough...
i will say your idea is the most creative that i have ever seen.

this show is like an action packed soap opera to be honest, and it's done in such a mega creative way, that no other show can beat it.

i agree. its usual suspects on steroids. i thoroughly believe this is all one big con. everyone thinks its about religion / technology / time travel, etc. - they've TOTALLY conned everyone into thinking its about something that its not even about. they've actually put us in Jacob's shoes - we are viewing the characters the way Jacob would. we are invested in their existence the way he would be.

when its over i think it will go down as maybe the most sophisticated 'what the hell is going on?' shows ever made.

 

[penkitten]

how does one man survive alone on a secret island without killing himself over a period of time?

 

[joekerr31]

how does one man survive alone on a secret island without killing himself over a period of time?

without killing himself from what?

if all the dharma people left there would be tons of canned food around, so food would be no problem.

if you are talking about psychologically becoming suicidal, this is my point! he created these multiple personalities to cope.

this is also why ben said 'i was born on the island' . the truth is he was born there - born out of jacob's mind. Ben actually 'came into existence' on the island as the first fictional personality. (although actually i think Richard may have been the first. created when jacob was a child top cope with his fathers abuse). Richard tells him if he's patient he might one day be able to join them (this gave Jacob the strength to grow up with his father).

ben later says that he lied about this, but thats probably because he consideres himself a part of jacob and in a sense was then born in the outside world as well (he would like to think of him and jacob as one. which is why he gets so p*ssed that jacob is talking to Locke!).

 

[joekerr31]

oh another thought....

Richard was probably the first 'delusion' (first multiple personality) that jacob had.

ben however probably emerged out of jacob, like a split personality (which is different than a multiple personality, but just as fictional). ben became the active 'alive' form of jacob, while jacob remained a child (assuming he was left on the island as a child).

this also explains why ben/jacob have such a fascination with children and why jacob said to locke 'help me'. the cabin shaking was created by jacobs mind - remember, locke isn't real, he's another personality (and jacob has the power when he wants to manipulate how the characters perceive reality - since all of this is created by jacobs mind)

jacob's personality split into two when he was younger - into jacob the child and ben the adult. jacob still needs rescuing while Ben wants to keep his world as it is.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

If this is true, it would be such a ripoff of "Identity" (the movie with John Cusack, Ray Liotta, and Amanda Peet) that Lost fans would storm ABC headquarters with pitchforks and torches.


.

 

[joekerr31]

If this is true, it would be such a ripoff of "Identity" (the movie with John Cusack, Ray Liotta, and Amanda Peet) that Lost fans would storm ABC headquarters with pitchforks and torches.
.

you gotta admit though, the pieces do fit the theory.

see what they did was basically write a ghost story (jacob - hence the salt, monsters in the jungle, smokie, etc.), sci-fi story (push the button), human drama story, mystery, religion / philosophy story (dharmma, christianity, etc.), etc.

its basically every type of story in one. its a culimination of all the books Ben read.

in the end they can take the story any way they want. they could make it a ghost story (ben is dead, jacob is dead, the losties are dead, and its purgatory type of place). they could go sci-fi and somehow make it a time travel story. etc.

but the way its playing out right now is its a 'cast away' story but with a fight club type of twist. this is why in 4 years they've basically spent 1% of the time on the 'technology'.

now, if people catch on to the actual plot, they could re-write the scripts in season 5 and 6 to change everything. but i dont think they will. this is going to turn out to be one man stranded on an island whose gone nuts.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Debunked_theories#Dreamworld.2FAll_Inside_Someone.27s_Head

 

[joekerr31]

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Debunked_theories#Dreamworld.2FAll_Inside_Someone.27s_Head

* Carlton says: "What we have said and will continue to say is that we will not end the show with a cheat. It will not all have taken place in a snowglobe, it will not all have been a dream."

# Special Note:

* Though the writers have said that the entire story is not all in the mind of one character, they have not denied that dreams and hallucinations are of significance, simply that not all the events will be fabricated in someone's mind (a la ending for St. Elsewhere, the snowglobe reference that Carlton makes above).

its not a dream. this is a real life person having a multiple personality disorder break down (ie. he's fully awake when this is happening - just that one personality or another is in control). he's walking around the island as ben or juliette or jack, etc.

so the island exists, dharma existed - hence its not a snow globe scenario.

its also not all fabricated. ben came to the island with his dad. his dad was a janitor at dharma. there were polar bears in the zoo. etc. But Jacob also may be off the island at this point (was rescued by someone visiting the island).

but i agree, the fact that all the cool stuff would have been 'fictional' i would consider a cheat. the question is whether they would. notice how they say 'it will not all have taken place in a snow globe'. not all suggests some of it does. they also say 'not all in the mind of a single character', once again 'not all' suggestiosn that some of it is in the mind of a single character.

i tell ya, im still thinking the MP theory is very close to the target.

 

[joekerr31]

heck, dharmma may have been started for a clandestine reason, providing further meat to their claim that 'this is not a snowglobe' scenario.

heck, theres all this buzz about how magnetism can heal you. and theories that the island is magnetic and thats how people get healed.

and who knows, THAT may be true. it may have been part of the dharma initiative.

there could be a huge complex REAL story behind the island and dharmma.

but i still think the character stories are a function of Jacob having multiple personalities and being stuck on the island alone (although ill enjoy it if im proven wrong! id like a more 'sci fi' type of ending myself)

 

[Ever onward]

(although ill enjoy it if im proven wrong! id like a more 'sci fi' type of ending myself)

I kind of wanted a MASH style ending. You know where it might show all the characters being rescued from the Island and flown away in a helicopter to a hopeful future off the Island.

But with the flash-forwards that has sort of taken a detour since we are finding out what happens when they leave the Island. Although we did get a bit of the helicopter departure thing going on when Sayid left the Island. Who knows though, maybe some day the main story will catch up the flash-forwards and maybe Jack, Sayid, Kate, Hurley and the others from Oceanic 6 will go back to the Island to rescue everyone else...

That is of course, if your theory is proved incorrect sir. Honestly man, you put a lot of thought into it. I am seriously impressed.

 

[joekerr31]

That is of course, if your theory is proved incorrect sir. Honestly man, you put a lot of thought into it. I am seriously impressed.

see the MAJOR problem with the show has at this point is that they've worked in so many oddities (ie. things that can't happen in normal reality) that anything that explains them all will be hard to believe.

the only theory that allows for some of the story to be true, and some of it to be fake, and for all the 'oddities' to add up is a MP theory. a virtual reality / brainwashing experiment would also work (but they said its not virtual reality, so that's off the plate).

 

[joekerr31]

check this out...

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/p129.htm

benjamin (ben) is the son of Jacob. his mother died during childbirth. coincidence? i think not

ben came out of jacob (as my theory suggests - the connection to the bible is merely to give us a hint that we are on the right path).

[man im going to be ticked when my MP theory doesn't work and instead it turns out that the island is actually a magical pez dispenser]

 

[joekerr31]

oh fyi... the reason the women die during child birth, and the reason that Richard says 'ben has wasted our time on fertility" stuff is actually because Ben's mother died during child birth.

i had this wrong earlier in this post where i had a different explanation.

anyway, ben is replaying this trauma over and over in his mind. he keeps trying to save his mother (in the form of the women on the island).

Richard knows this is all a delusion and hence why its a 'waste of time'.

when he created Juliette to fix the problem, she failed.

hence when his mind took the next step and Claire had a baby. but he doesn't know how she did it. but the answer is at his finger tips, if he can just figure out how she conceived.

its merely yet another unresolved issue Ben / Jacob has. Im telling ya guys, everything on the island stems from Jacob's psyche.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Really good theory here J-man. I give you applaud for the effort and for doing the research BUT-

- I can't buy that Ben (Jacob) is the Architect of this Matrix. Though self redemption and boredom may be the crux of your theory it's still too self contained to be plausable.

I like that you were able to make connections with literary and biblical references, especially that Jacob is the father of Ben.

Interesting conundrum.

Raises a lot of interesting sidebars brother.

Good job.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

* Carlton says: "What we have said and will continue to say is that we will not end the show with a cheat. It will not all have taken place in a snowglobe, it will not all have been a dream."

# Special Note:

* Though the writers have said that the entire story is not all in the mind of one character, they have not denied that dreams and hallucinations are of significance, simply that not all the events will be fabricated in someone's mind (a la ending for St. Elsewhere, the snowglobe reference that Carlton makes above).

its not a dream. this is a real life person having a multiple personality disorder break down (ie. he's fully awake when this is happening - just that one personality or another is in control). he's walking around the island as ben or juliette or jack, etc.

so the island exists, dharma existed - hence its not a snow globe scenario.

its also not all fabricated. ben came to the island with his dad. his dad was a janitor at dharma. there were polar bears in the zoo. etc. But Jacob also may be off the island at this point (was rescued by someone visiting the island).

but i agree, the fact that all the cool stuff would have been 'fictional' i would consider a cheat. the question is whether they would. notice how they say 'it will not all have taken place in a snow globe'. not all suggests some of it does. they also say 'not all in the mind of a single character', once again 'not all' suggestiosn that some of it is in the mind of a single character.

i tell ya, im still thinking the MP theory is very close to the target.

They said that it is not all in somebody's mind.

Your theory is that the events of the show are all in somebody's mind.

Your theory is wrong, but you're still welcome to it.

 

[joekerr31]

They said that it is not all in somebody's mind.

Your theory is that the events of the show are all in somebody's mind.

Your theory is wrong, but you're still welcome to it.

ya, but 'all' the events aren't in someones mind. some of it is real. dharma, the island, etc.

i mean, we'll see as time goes on.

 

[joekerr31]

Really good theory here J-man. I give you applaud for the effort and for doing the research BUT-

- I can't buy that Ben (Jacob) is the Architect of this Matrix. Though self redemption and boredom may be the crux of your theory it's still too self contained to be plausable.

I like that you were able to make connections with literary and biblical references, especially that Jacob is the father of Ben.

Interesting conundrum.

Raises a lot of interesting sidebars brother.

Good job.

its not as implausable as it might first appear. it does tie up all the loose ends. every character is a reflection of Jacob to some extent.

if my theory is incorrect, then they will have to go down some kind of Fate theory. the only way to explain all the connections and overlapping coincidences is through a fate theory. which will be even more implausible than my MP theory.

they could also explain it by having Jacob be a God - this would allow him to have control over the characters as well.

they have ruled out time travel - so desmond going back in time did not happen. which basically rules out a lot of the science explanations.

anyway, its just a theory. right now nothing in the show disproves the theory and it explains a lot of whats going on.

so i'll just keep watching and hopefully they will show something that either disproves my theory or confirms it more concretely.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

ya, but 'all' the events aren't in someones mind. some of it is real. dharma, the island, etc.

i mean, we'll see as time goes on.

If you've ever seen the movie Identity, you would realize that what you are proposing is that Lost has completely copied the plot to that movie and simply replaced "Motel" with "Island". Part of that movie was in real life, and most of it was inside someone's head. It was creative at the time but would not be now. If the producers dragged everyone along for a total jerk-off "It's (almost) All In Some Guy's Head" crapfest, especially after they said that it's not all in someone's head and that deaths are really deaths and there are real consequences when people die, there would be a lot of very pissed off fans.

The whole "It's all a dream/hallucination/mental breakdown" thing has been played out -- from "The Wizard of Oz" to "Saint Elsewhere" to "Newhart" to the aforementioned "Identity", and I don't think that such an innovative series as "Lost" will end with such an unoriginal, cliche ending.