u pay or they pay!

[loner4shou]

i gotta ?'s on wheather u should pay 4 both u and ur date when ur out 2 dinner or to the movies? should u pay 4 both or should u make ur date pay 4 both or u should u pay 4 ur food or ticket and ur date pays 4 her's?

 

[Captain Popular]

man, you have no idea how many differnt responses you are gunna get from this question

alot depends on the type of person you are, and the girl too and yalls relationship and your intentions

 

[penkitten]

hanging out , you can go dutch

on a real date, where you ask her to go on a date, you are suppose to pay.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Originally posted by penkitten
hanging out , you can go dutch

on a real date, where you ask her to go on a date, you are suppose to pay.

Agree. You ask, you pay.

Courtesy dictates that even if she has no intention of paying she should at least offer when the bill comes. This allows her to allow you to look like a champ when you knock her back and her to feel good because she is free dinner worthy. Everyone has their egos stroked.

If she protests a little, let her know that she can buy some drinks when you hit the bar later or something.

 

[QuezNozet]

so if she asks me......let her pay.....dont even offer when the bill comes?

 

[white cloud 8]

Dude...it depends on your views, if she offers to pay at least help with half because (if) you asked her out thats called courtesy . I would feel bad if I ask a girl out,and, she would pay for the dinner (or come to an agreement that each would pay half). You're call.

 

[Smooth Player 056]

Here is a rule:

DO NOT pay for a girl until you have slept with her. PERIOD.


~Smooth

 

[MightyMate]

Usually we pay half. But for example for new years party my girl says i shoul pay it all because shes my woman and im taking her. Im not sure if its right. Im not used to pay 100%. What You think.

 

[loner4shou]

thanks yall i got it. i should do the half and half part cuz that sounds better.

 

[DonJuanMonk]

Originally posted by loner4shou
i gotta ?'s on wheather u should pay 4 both u and ur date when ur out 2 dinner or to the movies? should u pay 4 both or should u make ur date pay 4 both or u should u pay 4 ur food or ticket and ur date pays 4 her's?

Speak english, and stay in the high school forum.

 

[loner4shou]

hey man what's this, ohh it's english. u talking smack that i cant speak english well maybe u cant so shut the f*** up. u jealous because u cant post no ?'s like me huh. dont need 2 be jealous because u know that im better then u.:crackup:

 

[Javelin44]

Originally posted by loner4shou
hey man what's this, ohh it's english. u talking smack that i cant speak english well maybe u cant so shut the f*** up. u jealous because u cant post no ?'s like me huh. dont need 2 be jealous because u know that im better then u.:crackup:

shut.the.fck.up

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by penkitten
hanging out , you can go dutch

on a real date, where you ask her to go on a date, you are suppose to pay.

[rant=WAY on]
Why? And don't say common courtesy or it is gentlemanly. Is it the same if a woman asks a man out? Is this why most women don't ask men out? Isn't this a self perpetuation of the premise that women are the lesser sex, that the stereotypical roles of male/female are prejudicial toward the benefit of women? How about feminism? Doesn't this literally a slap in the face of what feminism expounds?

Don't think that I'm going after you Pen, this goes out to anyone that says "you ask, you pay." Personally I think it's a crock on so many levels (no duh).

[/rant=off]

 

[Easy Tiger]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
[rant=WAY on]
Why? And don't say common courtesy or it is gentlemanly. Is it the same if a woman asks a man out? Is this why most women don't ask men out? Isn't this a self perpetuation of the premise that women are the lesser sex, that the stereotypical roles of male/female are prejudicial toward the benefit of women? How about feminism? Doesn't this literally a slap in the face of what feminism expounds?
[/rant=off]

I am in the same camp as penkitten on this one.

It essentially boils down to a point of control for me. I am talking mostly about early dates here, where being focussed and having a plan is important. By paying the check I am contributing to my ability to control the situation in which I find myself. I know where we are going, how much I will lay out and what can happen next.

This is not always possible where your plans are conditional on another party's ability or willingness to pay.

Once the relationship develops, then I allow more equity in the dating experience, because I usually have a better idea at that stage about the means and capabilities of the person I am seeing. Gender politics has nothing to do with it in my situation.

EDIT TO ADD: I think courtesy also has a role to play here. The added ability to control the environment is the reward. The courtesy aspect would flip if the woman asked me out, though this happens infrequently because if I notice indicators of interest from someone and I am interested in them, I will ask them out directly.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Easy Tiger
I am in the same camp as penkitten on this one.

It essentially boils down to a point of control for me. I am talking mostly about early dates here, where being focussed and having a plan is important. By paying the check I am contributing to my ability to control the situation in which I find myself. I know where we are going, how much I will lay out and what can happen next. This is not always possible where your plans are conditional on another party's ability or willingness to pay.

So you base your ability on controlling the situation not by your personal presence, only that you paid for the date so you get to choose. Ah-ha..... So for you to be in control you will need to pay for everything, all of the time; at least for the first dates when you are getting to know one another. Is this necessarily a good investment since it's not certain whether the two of you will enjoy one another enough to take things to the next level?

Once the relationship develops, then I allow more equity in the dating experience, because I usually have a better idea at that stage about the means and capabilities of the person I am seeing. Gender politics has nothing to do with it in my situation.

So it's not until the point that the relationship develops that you will look into the capabilities of the person you are seeing. Basically you don't fully qualify her until after you start dating... Yeahhhhhhh.... So there's still the chance that her capabilities aren't that of who you are truly looking for, right? So there's the chance of you either putting up with that inequity or moving on. Again, is that really a good way to invest your time and effort?

EDIT TO ADD: I think courtesy also has a role to play here. The added ability to control the environment is the reward. The courtesy aspect would flip if the woman asked me out, though this happens infrequently because if I notice indicators of interest from someone and I am interested in them, I will ask them out directly.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if being in control of the environment is important to you than being in control of yourself. How often does money allow you to control things which are truly outside of your control?

 

[Easy Tiger]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia

So you base your ability on controlling the situation not by your personal presence, only that you paid for the date so you get to choose. Ah-ha..... So for you to be in control you will need to pay for everything, all of the time; at least for the first dates when you are getting to know one another.

No. You need to take the time to read closer. I will repeat it for you. Taking control of who is paying for a date when I ask someone out, is something that contributes to my control of the situation. It is not the sole determinant of the success or failure of the date. There are a number of other factors at play, including my "personal presence" or magnetism, my physical size and shape, the previous rapport that I have established etc. It is disingenuous to paint the situation in such an either/or fashion.

Is this necessarily a good investment since it's not certain whether the two of you will enjoy one another enough to take things to the next level?

I think it is for what it adds to the situation. Aside from the control aspect, a date is easily extended using an "I'll get dinner, you can pay for the drinks at this great bar I know" invitation.

So it's not until the point that the relationship develops that you will look into the capabilities of the person you are seeing. Basically you don't fully qualify her until after you start dating...

No, again you presume too much. A person's capabilities are not always apparent. It would be a rare situation where someone could be "fully qualified" prior to dating them for the first time, though perhaps we are using different senses of the word "qualified". Often I will go out on a date with women in order to get to know them better, and to allow them to get to know me better.

So there's still the chance that her capabilities aren't that of who you are truly looking for, right? So there's the chance of you either putting up with that inequity or moving on. Again, is that really a good way to invest your time and effort?

I am not sure what you are implying here. Are you saying it is not worth taking the time and effort to date people you don't know well in order to get to know them better? If this is what you are saying then I think you are radically different than I am, because I believe this is well worth it. Do you only date people who you have known for ages and about who you know everything? Full qualification is not something that can happen over a five minute pick-up exchange or even a two hour non-dating conversation. Women lie, particularly when they meet new people who they are interested in.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if being in control of the environment is important to you than being in control of yourself. How often does money allow you to control things which are truly outside of your control?

I am not trying to be trite, but, you're wrong. Being in control of my environment compliments other aspects of self-control. It is not the either/or issue that you paint it as. And paying for the meal of a woman that I have invited out does allow me to control this aspect of my environment, I don't know why you think it wouldn't.

Let's change this up a little though. I am interested, Francisco, why you are so averse to paying for a meal at a nice restaurant for yourself and your date, given that it allows you to control the date, removes potential economic barriers that arise from going "dutch" when you don't eat at McDonalds, and provides an opportunity to extend an evening. Have you been scarred by gold digging women before? Haven't you qualified enough before asking some women out? It seems to me like the real issue here is with the quality of women you seem to be guarding yourself against.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Easy Tiger
Let's change this up a little though. I am interested, Francisco, why you are so averse to paying for a meal at a nice restaurant for yourself and your date, given that it allows you to control the date, removes potential economic barriers that arise from going "dutch" when you don't eat at McDonalds, and provides an opportunity to extend an evening. Have you been scarred by gold digging women before? Haven't you qualified enough before asking some women out? It seems to me like the real issue here is with the quality of women you seem to be guarding yourself against.

I will not pay for company of a woman just for the sake that she agreed to go out with me and I definitely do not equate my ability to control a situation by anything other than my personality. Check that; I don't need to control the situation, just myself. I learned this premise from Doc Love's System believe it or not and I have happy wallet and more dates because of it.

Guys today are so brainwashed by societal standards as to why they should pay for dates and mostly give nondescript answers as to why. You on the other hand did make a good excuse for your opinion. My opinion is based on the truth behind all of the fallacies that women try to make guys believe.

Women tell you that men make more money than women. This isn't true. Outdated statistics as stating that women earn 75 cents for every dollar a man earns is still promoted by women who insist on portraying themselves as angelic victims in a man's world. Let's pretend it were true that women earn 25% less than men. Shouldn't women pick up 75% of their half of the dating expenses; equal rights means equal rights, shouldn't it?

Women say that if you were a gentleman you would pay for the date. Acting as a woman's version of a gentleman or a nice guy is an prime example of how men are brainwashed by women to fulfill their often self serving interests.

Some guys actually believe that it costs more to be a woman. Women present (package) themselves for sale to the highest bidder they can attract. Have you ever seen a gigantic cosmetic counter for men? And consider what it costs to be a man; try getting a date without an expensive house, an upscale car and nice clothing. Add to that paying for dinner each time that you guys go out??!! I don't think so.

Guy's will even say that it's the nice thing to do. Most guys in the forum know how I feel about 'nice.' Sure it's nice, I'd like someone to give me door to door chauffeur service, bring me presents, and pay for my dinner and entertainment, all for the possibility of sex, but with no obligation whatsoever, wouldn't you?

Oh, and how can I forget the simple fact that women expect us to pay. Yes, it is expected by women who have set up the rules of dating and sex by forcing men to bend to their rules. And this means, if you don't pay, you don't get laid. Isn't that what you eventually want to get for paying for these things?

And I'm sure that you've heard that if a guy doesn't pay, he must be cheap, right? This is just a form of sexual blackmail. It proves that women that say this primarily want money. What's bad about this is that any guy can get money. If that's all you can offer, why should she stay with you since there's always some other guy with more money than you.

Oh, and didn't someone say that whomever asks for the date should pay? This is a great example of the female double standard. How many women have actually asked you out? But yet we hear this excuse from women whenever this subject comes up.

Here's something to consider, when two women go out to dinner does the one who asks pay? No, they usually split the bill. The same thing happens when a woman goes out with a man who's just a friend; each pays their share. However, the second that sex enters the equation the woman expects to be paid for. Isn't that just prostitution?

Face it, the simple fact is that women know that they can get away with not paying. I've heard women actually say, "The man I'm with is going to have to earn my affection." This mentality just reduces dating to a wh0re/john type of relationship.

Women also think that just because their girlfriend's 'nice guy' boyfriend pays for them so why shouldn't you? This is another version of the "you're cheap" routine. What's she's really saying is, "my girlfriend gets away with sexual blackmail, and I want to get away with it too," think about it.

I've actually talked about this with my women friends at work and some told me that they would offer to pay but guys always say "no". In these days of equal rights some women will make a half @ssed attempt once to uphold their end of the "equality" bargain by offering to pay their half of the check.

This is never going to end or at least change across the board until guys "man up" and stop paying for women just because it's "what they should do. Most times a woman's behavior amounts to little more than extortion and sexual blackmail. The reason women can still get away with this behavior is because most guys let them. There should be absolutely no question about who should pay the bill...

We both should.

 

[loner4shou]

HAHAHA!
TIS IS 2 F***KEN Javelin44. Y DONT U SHUT THE F*** UP, RUNNING UP IN MY BUSINESS LIKE TAT. GO TAKE A CHILL PILL.

:crackup:

 

[loner4shou]

I wanna thank all of the guys/gurls 4 helping me out

 

[Easy Tiger]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
Preceding post

This post is generally about gender based issues that are not really applicable as a criticism against my standpoint. I appreciate the principle, though, that a lot of the time when people pay for dates they aren't clear why they are doing so, and as a result they act in such a fashion that they wouldn't be comfortable with if they were conscious of their motivation.

I will, however, do what works for me. Thanks for the interesting posts.