Ty Ziegel, the Wounded Marine

[Paper Man]

Remember Ty Ziegel, the U.S. Marine who came back from Iraq deformed but still married his fiancee?

CNN’s “Waging War on the VA" (Nov 17, 2007) reported that Ty and Renee separated shortly before their first wedding anniversary.

 

[Aboleo]

Damn. Well, aside from the obvious... does anyone know exactly why they separated?

 

[BoredDude]

She probably couldn't handle the way he looked, could you blame her?

 

[Aboleo]

She probably couldn't handle the way he looked, could you blame her?

It is a hard question to answer, but yes. If that is the case then yeah, it is her problem. It isn't his fault that he was wounded in battle like that.

Of course, you could pose the question the other way around. What if this happend to your wife/girlfriend? It would take a very strong person... but if you turned away from her for that reason, you would be the one at fault, not her.

But my question had more to do with his psychological state. Her leaving him might have had just as much to do with his emotions as his face. If this is indeed what drove her away, then perhaps she is not as shallow as she seems. There is only so much emotional abuse a person can handle.

 

[Obsidian]

gracious, that's a really depressing wedding photo on that wikipedia article. The wife's expression looks like a picture of Sitting Bull from the 1800s.

And if she couldn't handle his deformity, she should have separated BEFORE she married him, not after.

That said, I'm a little surprised the guy can't get any better plastic surgery to improve his appearance. I guess he maybe can't afford it.

 

[meitenesrigas]

Divorce rate for American military members is probably close to 70%. It is much higher than the USA average (which is 50%). American broads should be avoided. If you want to serve America you should travel and treat those you meet with respect. Not that many young American guys (outside of Jesus Freaks, Mormon Missionaries, and basketball players) where I am at.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/divorce/a/divorceprograms.htm
As I suspected. Around 70%!!!! Damn, I'm good.

 

[Tyron]

That makes me sad. :< Maybe this reminds us that we probably have things pretty well even if it may sometimes suck. I don't know what i would do if something like that happened to me. Maybe lock myself in some cellar and devote myself to science.

Picture is wonderful from an artistic point of view. And I wasn't suprised it won top awards.

 

[LostAndConfused]

gracious, that's a really depressing wedding photo on that wikipedia article. The wife's expression looks like a picture of Sitting Bull from the 1800s.

And if she couldn't handle his deformity, she should have separated BEFORE she married him, not after.

That said, I'm a little surprised the guy can't get any better plastic surgery to improve his appearance. I guess he maybe can't afford it.

Yup.

Worst case scenario, this girl was the EPITOME of attention whøre, going so far as to marry her deformed boyfriend just so she looks like such a great person, then when the spotlight leaves her, she leaves her boyfriend/husband.

Makes you wonder why you'd escalate to MARRIAGE when you already know what your going into in the first place.

 

[wayword]

She probably couldn't handle the way he looked, could you blame her?

Called this one from the jump a year ago - 2 years TOPS!

She just did it for her image, temporarily - so she wouldn't look like a shallow bych.

American women just have so many sexual options today, they don't even stick with "normal" hubbies for long - much less disfigured ones. "Love" and "marriage" are both complete jokes today.

I understand why this Marine still wanted to get married, but he had to know it was an exercise in futility. In the end, just a lot of money was wasted on this phony Hollywood ending.

 

[TheHumanist]

Called this one from the jump a year ago - 2 years TOPS!

She just did it for her image, temporarily - so she wouldn't look like a shallow bych.

American women just have so many sexual options today, they don't even stick with "normal" hubbies for long - much less disfigured ones. "Love" and "marriage" are both complete jokes today.

I understand why this Marine still wanted to get married, but he had to know it was an exercise in futility. In the end, just a lot of money was wasted on this phony Hollywood ending.

(reading the old post)
Well of course looks matter when you look like a orge from Lord of the Rings...

Now I'm going to argue back a little on the idea she is just a shallow bych. Put yourself in the same situation, if she came back that disfigured but you were engaged, could you hold through? I don't truly know what would happen if I was put in the same situation, but I can tell you for sure that no matter what other redeeming qualities she has whever it was personality or whatever, there going to be an internal conflict that going to last as long as I stay with her. A side that says she is awesome somehow enough to stand by her (along with principles I guess) but the other saying that I can't stand to look at her and I need to stop torturing myself.

I wouldn't be surprise she had the same conflict. She might not just be a shallow bytch but someone who just can't take something like that. It is painful to look at him dammit. Damn it really sucks alright to be him...

 

[JRight]

I'm not saying it's right, but if my girlfriend was disfigured to that extent, I would probably find it hard to spend the rest of my life with her as well. I can't really look down on her when I may have done the same thing (except I'm not sure I would have even gone as far as getting married...).

 

[LostAndConfused]

Well guys theres a difference.

Yeah, most of us would ditch after something so drastic happened....

...but no guy would ever try to milk it for attention and get "married" then get divorced once the spotlight leaves you.

At least I wouldnt....

 

[AmusedPasserby]

People who obviously have never been married commenting authoritatively on marriage and divorce, and what they would do, sound very amusing to me. It's no different than if a ballerina, who believes mashed potatoes come from the inside of pierogies, started commenting on the principles of agriculture. Listen: get married first, wait for a REAL HARDSHIP, live through it for a few months (or, failing that, raise a couple of kids through toddlerhood), and then I might take you seriously. As of now, you all sound like that ballerina.

For what it's worth, if you read the story, it's obvious Tyler's looks were not the only problem. There was this thing where sex was contraindicated indefinitely, and his personality, which seemed emotionally distant to begin with, grew considerably worse due to depression. (Yeah, it's not "his fault", however, the question of fault is irrelevant; the purpose of divorce isn't to punish -- but then, people who have never been married or divorced wouldn't realize that either.)

Finally, none of you understand the most likely and obvious reason Renee went through with the marriage in the first place -- peer pressure. (And no, there is absolutely NO evidence that she acted as a "media wh0re", actively sought attention of the media, or got anything out of the media exposure other than being vilified by a bunch of strangers.) Renee and Tyler come from a small town, where one is basically always on trial for his private life. She was engaged to Tyler at the time of his injury, and I think in her mind, she thought (quite reasonably) that if she broke off the engagement, she would become a pariah. (As an aside, there was a hilarious episode recently on "Curb Your Enthusiasm" about the propriety of breaking up with someone who has cancer.) It was an error of judgment on her part, but an error made under pressure. Her dilemma was not an easy one. Ultimately, she made what most people would consider the moral choice, but being 21, she failed to look at it realistically. In other words, she meant well, but she overestimated her own ability to make a sacrifice that takes a lifetime to complete.

I believe LostAndConfused when he says he wouldn't marry and then dump his girlfriend if she got horribly disfigured. What he fails to realize, however, is that he would face a lot less pressure to marry than if the genders were reversed. Women are subjected to a lot more opprobrium for dumping a mate over such "trivial" things as disfigurement, impotence and depression all combined ("the trifecta", if you will), than men are. To paraphrase Choderlos de Laclos, women are to enjoy the happiness they give, while men enjoy the happiness they feel -- which is another way of saying that women are expected to live vicariously through their lovers and husbands, and therefore to relinquish personal preferences and personal happiness in a situation like the one we are talking about. When men do the same, they are commended for it, but they aren't expected to sacrifice their happiness as a matter of course. Sure, LAC, if you dumped your injured girlfriend, there would be some murmuring -- but nothing comparable to the ****-storm that would ensue if your roles were switched. Just think of what you or most people you know would say about Renee if she did break off her engagement to Tyler.

 

[Da Realist]

I'm sorry, amused, but women get away with dumping guys over big stuff all the time now. You lose your job, hit an emotional slump, or just have a string of bad luck and they will drop you so fast it doesn't make any sense. They will rationalize it some kind of way and later find some guy who will pick them up knowing full well what happened.

Men on the other hand have to face the truth if they do something like that and get it worse. If I left a woman because she was going to die soon, I would get talked about like I was less than a man. If I had a wife and she lost her job, I would be called a scrub and probably have a Lifetime movie projecting me as some kind of monster when I left.

Let's face it: men lead and women follow. A woman can shirk her duties and still be considered a woman; a man who let's his stuff get out of order isn't even considered a man anymore.

 

[FutureSpartan]

Ty should have known the risk he was putting himself into when he signed the dotted line. War is not a f*cking video game, what did he expect?

Evolution already has all of us men tagged as "expendable" so there's no need to play your odds like that.

Look out for your own interests and those closest to you. Patriotism is not worth paying for in life and limbs.

 

[user43770]

Look out for your own interests and those closest to you. Patriotism is not worth paying for in life and limbs.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

- John Stuart Mill

 

[FutureSpartan]

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

- John Stuart Mill

War in defense of my family and community is something I will gladly lay my life down for.

I'm not going to open pandora's box and make this into a political thread so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Ken785]

War in defense of my family and community is something I will gladly lay my life down for.

I'm not going to open pandora's box and make this into a political thread so I'll just leave it at that.

Never really got the whole "Im defending my family!" mindset about going to war.

Unless you lost someone due to the 9/11 attacks, aren't they perfectly safe where they are now??

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

I've never understood the fascination people have with war. And to even praise it without participating in it....

I've never understood males who where not fascinated with war.
I thought it was something ingrained in us.

 

[Quiksilver]

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

heh, armchair warrior.

Marines have a dangerous job, most of the time you come out okay, but only takes one bad toss to ruin you forever. Most of them understand the risk, but think "it'll never happen to me, what are the odds?". The truth is, life in the army is so different from civvie life that most grunts(marines) have a hard time relating to civilians. In society it's every man for himself, selfishness. In the army it's all about selflessness and protecting the guys beside you. Totally different worlds and why so many soldiers come home are depressed; they can't understand why civilians act the way they do, then they start to wonder why they fought at all.

Society has some sick fascination with violence, I have it too I suppose. What guy doesn't like a good war movie? What guy doesn't like video games? The cover of almost every non-chick movie made these days either has a weapon on it or some other military hardware.

That isn't the sick part though... 99% of people who love violence are also scared to death by it, and get terrified by little animals in their backyard, letting their son go to war, or any other thing with even a modicum of danger involved. That is the part I don't understand... We love violence yet we are terrified to do it.

Hehe and before anyone asks, I am in the Army down here.