Two Schools

[SteR]

Just out of interest, what hobbies do you guys have that keep you going? Most of mine involve working out/training my body. I used to be big into sports until I got injured... guess it'd be cool to have something new to fill that void.

Any suggestions?

(Slightly off topic, my apologies!)

 

[SteR]

My main one would be volunteer firefighting.

Now, between career, child, and firefighting I don't have alot of time for anything else, but I do like to play the guitar and cook. I will probably take up golf eventually because everyone does.

That's pretty cool.. I don't know if there's anything like that around where I live.

The thing is I already do some volunteer work at the local hospital. When I'm not busy with work, I work out religiously (just taken up yoga too), read a lot and yet still feel there's something missing.. bah!

I figured maybe it was a woman? (in a 7 month dry spell) but I'm starting to wonder if it's something deeper...

 

[sodbuster]

Buddha, I've never been as alone single as I was IN the marriage bed. Hard to believe,but true. When you are single, the next girlfriend may be just around the corner; married.... well you know she isn't showing up for the 6-12 months it takes for the divorce to wind it's way through the courts. SO, you ride it out, hoping it gets better,back to what it was. Maybe it gets better for a bit or maybe it stays bad until the decision to divorce is made[usually by the woman...according to court filings]

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

2) Go the gym and get a hobby, and the girls will come to you.

Also known as the MGTOW charter mission statement.

:nervous:

 

[Jitterbug]

MGTOW what? It is true, if your gym effort gives you an elite physique and you are one of the very best at your hobby, and it's the kind of hobby that women dig.

A few nerdy pursuits aside, if you excel at what you do, there will be groupies.

Works for me. *shrugs*

 

[ebracer05]

Jitterbug... I don't see that you're completely responding to what Buddha is saying and your conversation has made me think. I don't believe in "the one" and I don't believe in being a "white knight". But if you can love the gym, love your life, love all of the things you do, why do people get so uncomfortable when people start also wanting to love a woman? I'm not talking about the sort of AFC who loves a woman and loses complete track of himself and his life. I'm talking about a man who finds a woman who complements his life and, dare I say, improves it rather than replaces it.

Music has definitely made my life better. I love being able to write songs, play the piano, sing, and perform. My friends have made my life better too. I have so many great memories and experiences with a lot of really great guys and girls (the few truly platonic relationships I've had) I've met over the years. I like to work with my hands, build things, read and learn new things, write, and develop my body. I derive joy from all of those things and they have made my life better.

Now why is it that a woman can't serve the same function as any of those other things? I mean, there have been times I have wanted something like a new keyboard, a guitar, a tool, or something else very badly. When I first started out here, I really wanted to get in good physical shape. And when I have finally gotten whatever it is that I really wanted, or achieved whatever it was that I really wanted to achieve, I was happy and it felt very good. I still love my keyboard, guitar, body, and I get excited when I know I'll be going out on a Friday to dance because I love to dance.

I know I'm taking a long time building this up, but it's all for a point. If I can feel that way about inanimate objects, why is it somehow a mistake for me to feel any less and even more so about a woman, a living human being? Why is it wrong to derive a sense of pleasure from being with a woman, from enjoying her company (even enjoying it a lot), from wanting to make her happy, and all of that other fine stuff. We seek these attributes from our friends and many people cite the sense of comradery with their friends, and I would hope that a DJ would want an even stronger sense of comradery with their woman. Again, I'm not talking about sacrificing your pride, person, life, interests, or anything else for the sake of a warm body. I don't think anything except perhaps a person's ultimate destiny and life path should totally and absolutely consume them to the point that they start letting the rest of their life go.

There are more ways to feel alive than a woman and the man who forgets this will be summarily disappointed.

Maybe one day those attractive men will wake up and realise they don't need to struggle to find a meaningful relationship with women, because they start to question who was it that put it into their heads that they need a meaningful relationship with women in the first place.

And that's when they find life awesome and live happily ever after.

What put it in our heads that we "need" a meaningful relationship with a woman are all of the previous generations of humans that had meaningful relationships with woman and all of the previous evolutionary descendant organisms in the human phylogeny that left a genetic imprint upon the present population of humans that said it's evolutionary favorable to the perpetuation of a person's genes that they form a strong pair bond with a member of the opposite sex.

I think it's more than that, but the evolutionary psychology is something that can at the very least have the scientific method partially applied to it. A meaningful relationship with a woman is something that takes almost ninja like skills to execute properly. It's like holding a nuclear reactor (or electricity, as Buddha said) inside of your hands - if you aren't careful, it will melt down, shock you, and literally consume you. The man must be vigilant and careful not to lose himself in the power he holds. And what is the benefit of having something like that within your grasp? The tremendous amount of power, utility, and everything else possible to derive from such a profound source of energy! Usually, the most power and/or beneficial things in life are those capable of causing the most harm. And it seems like those on the board who speak most loudly against things like meaningful relationships are guys who have either been so hurt in the past that they have developed a mental association with strong pair bonding and pain, or they don't have the proper resolve to deal with such a delicate situation without losing themselves or getting hurt.

It's a poor argument because just because a person executes a scenario incorrectly for whatever reason doesn't mean it doesn't work... it just means the necessary pieces were not all there or lined up correctly.

So why is this a problem? I don't have time to write any more but I really would like to know... what's the problem?

 

[Warrior74]

A man does not "need" a meaningful relationship with a woman. Ask tons of child brides, arranged marriages, kidnapped slaves, women won as spoils of war from other tribes/countries, whoores, bed wenches, political marriages, pregnant rape victims and cave women who were bashed over the head. History shows us that previous generations did what they had to do to continue the species and spread their DNA, it didn't have to be any more meaningful than the time it took to bust a nut. Fact. Meaningful relationships are a luxury at best, but not a requirement for the human race to survive.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

A man does not "need" a meaningful relationship with a woman. Ask tons of child brides, arranged marriages, kidnapped slaves, women won as spoils of war from other tribes/countries, whoores, bed wenches, political marriages, pregnant rape victims and cave women who were bashed over the head. History shows us that previous generations did what they had to do to continue the species and spread their DNA, it didn't have to be any more meaningful than the time it took to bust a nut. Fact. Meaningful relationships are a luxury at best, but not a requirement for the human race to survive.

There have always been vile and disgusting acts...even now there are this very moment...not all people think this way...you can't say, well the cavemen used to do it this way..because we are evolving...we are not the same DNA-wise or mentally (frontal lobe or brain-organ-wise) as those hominids were...

You be right about some sort of prolonged relationship beyond pure gene transference as a "luxury"...in today's world however, people rent the same apartment for 10+ years, etc....we aren't on those same time scales or resource pressures...

Clearly we don't NEED women to LIVE (as in food, shelter and water for example), but we sure NEED women to pro-create! Somehow the seed has been carried all these years. Yes, in many situations it is brutal. People take the things they desire or want. Sometimes in less structured worlds or civilizations, there are no penalties in doing so--certain times you could probably steal from anyone or bash their skull in if they didn't have anything and see tomorrow just fine without any penalties..

But there may be reasons we've evolved into monogamy...we are not the only species who do such..eagles for example, and many other birds, have a single sexual partner most of their life...not all animals everywhere are the caveman bashing type...

 

[ebracer05]

Fact. Meaningful relationships are a luxury at best, but not a requirement for the human race to survive.

Agreed. The same is true with a sports car. It's clearly a luxury and not necessary me to survive. I still want one.

It is also important to note the sort of life our ancestors had. I don't have to or want to live in a violent primitive society where at any time I may have to pick up my blunt axe and kill a man for trying to impregnate my woman. One of the advantages to civilization, government, our modern society is the fact that we have relatively greater level of security. Technology has given us a much greater lease on our time to pursue our leisure.

Those two advents right there make a comparison between our current society and prehistoric society (and even society 100 years ago) difficult at best and likely unreasonable. Given what we have in the present, a meaningful relationship with a woman is still a luxury, but it's one that's cost seems so insignificant that I don't even know why its value is questioned. If we're already spending all this time cold approaching, improving ourselves, doing these bootcamps, reading, watching videos, and all of this other stuff... and we're actually benefiting from it... it seems to be that a meaningful relationship is the logical conclusion to all of that.

What was the reason that you even signed up here in the first place?

 

[Serg897]

In my experience #1 is almost always true, except in a few very rare cases I can count on one hand. Probably what is meant by #2 is that the women will make it easier for you to do #1.

 

[Jitterbug]

What was the reason that you even signed up here in the first place?

Mostly to get laid, not to become a romantic poet (not necessary me or Warrior, but it's a safe bet for most guys here).

Btw do you know what the word "meaningful" means? Can you define it?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Women should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, never the focus of it.

 

[ebracer05]

Btw do you know what the word "meaningful" means? Can you define it?

Dude, that's a bit of an offensive question. I have a college degrees in the sciences and social sciences, and even if I didn't know what it meant, if I can find this website I can surely find a source on the internet that will inform me of the word's meaning... which is:

Meaningful - Having a serious, important, or useful quality or purpose.

Meaning - Full of significance; expressive

Mean - to intend for a particular purpose, destination, etc
or
to have as its sense or signification; signify

Based on those three definitions, meaningful in the context of a meaningful relationship is one that is purposed, useful, and valuable. If you'd like the etymologies or cognates, they are very easy to find.

A meaningful relationship has a purpose but it is not the purpose. It's just like any other facet of a man's life that is not his ultimate purpose. It's something you can derive enjoyment from and slew of other good things. And it can also f*ck with you better than perhaps anything else except maybe a bad hallucinogen if you aren't wise, prudent, and/or a man.

It's like the tools I use to make furniture. I have a bench plane, but I don't use it nearly as much as my router and I like using my router a lot more. I have bits for my router that get a lot of use, and I have bits that get very little use. There are bits that can produce designs, especially you make one pass at a certain depth using one bit, and then you change the depth and make another pass using another bit, and the overall design is improved because of the complementary nature of the two bits.

And that is what a woman should do for a man. A man should already be able to make a good design... with the right woman in a meaningful relationship, his ability to make a good design should be enhanced. Take the relationship away, you still have the man and a good design. He doesn't need the woman. But anything that compliment's a man's life makes it better:

Women should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, never the focus of it.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Dude, that's a bit of an offensive question. I have a college degrees in the sciences and social sciences, and even if I didn't know what it meant, if I can find this website I can surely find a source on the internet that will inform me of the word's meaning... which is:

Meaningful - Having a serious, important, or useful quality or purpose.

Meaning - Full of significance; expressive

Mean - to intend for a particular purpose, destination, etc
or
to have as its sense or signification; signify

Based on those three definitions, meaningful in the context of a meaningful relationship is one that is purposed, useful, and valuable. If you'd like the etymologies or cognates, they are very easy to find.

A meaningful relationship has a purpose but it is not the purpose. It's just like any other facet of a man's life that is not his ultimate purpose. It's something you can derive enjoyment from and slew of other good things. And it can also f*ck with you better than perhaps anything else except maybe a bad hallucinogen if you aren't wise, prudent, and/or a man.

It's like the tools I use to make furniture. I have a bench plane, but I don't use it nearly as much as my router and I like using my router a lot more. I have bits for my router that get a lot of use, and I have bits that get very little use. There are bits that can produce designs, especially you make one pass at a certain depth using one bit, and then you change the depth and make another pass using another bit, and the overall design is improved because of the complementary nature of the two bits.

And that is what a woman should do for a man. A man should already be able to make a good design... with the right woman in a meaningful relationship, his ability to make a good design should be enhanced. Take the relationship away, you still have the man and a good design. He doesn't need the woman. But anything that compliment's a man's life makes it better:

Good analogies.

I hear you. But the drill bit is not the drill nor the drill operator...there to assist in the construction...

 

[Warrior74]

There have always been vile and disgusting acts...even now there are this very moment...not all people think this way...you can't say, well the cavemen used to do it this way..because we are evolving...we are not the same DNA-wise or mentally (frontal lobe or brain-organ-wise) as those hominids were...

You be right about some sort of prolonged relationship beyond pure gene transference as a "luxury"...in today's world however, people rent the same apartment for 10+ years, etc....we aren't on those same time scales or resource pressures...

Clearly we don't NEED women to LIVE (as in food, shelter and water for example), but we sure NEED women to pro-create! Somehow the seed has been carried all these years. Yes, in many situations it is brutal. People take the things they desire or want. Sometimes in less structured worlds or civilizations, there are no penalties in doing so--certain times you could probably steal from anyone or bash their skull in if they didn't have anything and see tomorrow just fine without any penalties..

But there may be reasons we've evolved into monogamy...we are not the only species who do such..eagles for example, and many other birds, have a single sexual partner most of their life...not all animals everywhere are the caveman bashing type...

Yah I like to take it back to basics, sometimes people forget that we are all decedents of people who did brutal things to survive. We live in a very fortunate time in history. But if we forget how it can be and start to think that just because it's this way this is "right" or "normal" we run the risk of being victims of our own delusions.

As for monogamy, I don't believe humans are monogamous as a species. I think its a cultural phenomenon more than a biological one. It's easier to control and run a monogamously focused society. Less trouble. Better workers.

 

[Alvafe]

Agree with samspade on this one. I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive. It's definitely not that black and white either way.

I always thought the whole 'hit the gym, get a hobby' advice was more for you: to build one's character and intrinsic worth rather than as a means to an end.

Whereas things like cold approaching, setting up dates, etc, obviously put woman as the primary objective on the face of it. However depending on how you set the frame even this can be about you if the aim of the interaction is for your own amusement.

well when people ehre say go to gym and go find a hobbie, the idea is do something make you go out and keep your time being used in a fun way, having a better life you give you a good mentality, and since you are having a good life and showing it woman will find you atrative because you ahve a good life, and make it easyer for you to choose what girl you want, not be choosen by someone who now is not as pretty as she was and find you like really the "last man of her world".

I take it like that, because in my life the time when I was busy studying 16 hours a day, and didn't care a thing for girls, it was so damn easyto get some, but when I really find a girl I liked, it was always crash and burn, because you did things make you lose face with then.

well that is what I find reading here and from what I know, i'm still improving back to the gym again, body losing the sphere shape, and getting the good shape now :crackup:, I find the gym part too, to be like make it easyer you go after the really good look ones, and the scenary is good to look at

 

[ilikecharlene]

Respecting the OP's points, both.

Be confident and be in shape and know what one wants.