Two dates, no kiss yet. Valentine gift needed?

[johnnyrem]

I've been out with this attractive, very smart (Ph.d entomologist student) twice on dates. Actually three times, the first was a "get acquainted" meeting at a bookstore.

Didn't feel the timing was right on the first date to go for a goodnight kiss, but we really hit it off on the conversation and activities, definitely no bad vibes at all. Second date, she had a cold, coughing a bit, but still went out with me. At the end of the date, I was ready to walk her to her apartment door, but she said there was no need to escort her, as I could stay in my "nice warm truck."

If I kissed her goodnight I might have got her cold and regretted it, but I was mostly willing to take the chance at that point. A little disappointed about it, but like I said, she's a pretty cerebral chick, and no kiss could have been the best thing. She might have been thinking about my best interests, for all I know.

Anyway, Valentine's is coming up, and I want to let her know I'm interested, but I don't want to go over the top on a gift. A few roses and a card sound appropriate?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You've been on two dates with this woman and you don't think that she knows that you are interested???? WTF???!!!

 

[OzyBoy]

Happy valentines day everyone especially to my girlfriend who i cant be with now, i love you and i wish i was with you to hug you and give you a big kiss. I hope we can be together soon.

 

[Julian]

ozy ur a homo

anyway to the original question. Your main mistake was taking her out when she was sick. maybe its because im a germaphobe (and am currently sick with a cold) but if a chick is coughing and has a stuffy nose and all that ish I STAY AWAY and wait till they are nice and healthy and kissable.

Personally i wouldnt get her sh1t for valentines day.

Also, if things have gone as well as you liked theres no reason not to kiss her at this point.

Go for it, if she denies you well then you know where she stands.

 

[DeathDealer]

At the end of the date, I was ready to walk her to her apartment door, but she said there was no need to escort her, as I could stay in my "nice warm truck."

You might've gotten rejected.

If I kissed her goodnight I might have got her cold and regretted it, but I was mostly willing to take the chance at that point. A little disappointed about it, but like I said, she's a pretty cerebral chick, and no kiss could have been the best thing. She might have been thinking about my best interests, for all I know.

Kissing is not a big deal.

Anyway, Valentine's is coming up, and I want to let her know I'm interested, but I don't want to go over the top on a gift. A few roses and a card sound appropriate?

She already knows your interested. Maybe just a phone call instead of gifts.

 

[Jordache.DJ]

Am I the only one who thinks any kind of vday interaction is a bad idea?

She is expecting you to pander to her so why give her what she thinks she should be getting? I would say keep her guessing and wait until Tuesday to call.

Otherwise you are playing up to *her*. Let her call *you* if she wants to talk. Except, of course, it being v-day, you will not be answering your phone...

 

[Don_Joffe]

Not all v-day interaction is a bad idea, if depends on the girl you have or want. If you need to reignite something with a girl a gift to show her that she is special to you wont harm anyone. In your situation...you already got a few dates out the way, her telling you not to come up is her way of protecting you and also playing games with you. protection- getting sick , playing games - going on dates but no kiss close yet.
What you need to do on valentines day is
Go on ANOTHER date with her and Kiss her. Gifts arent that important at this point, you aint going to change her opinion of you if you get her something, going on a date again is your best option and when you do go on the date, buy her something small, a bunch of roses or a card is cool, make the card meaningful words though Dont EXPRESS that you like her, let her tell you that first. On the date, apply kino, flirt, take the "bond" you have to a different level, pull her.

 

[johnnyrem]

Up to this point, it hasn't been all that "gamey." I've called and left messages before, and she calls back, even when I say I'll try her another time or that I might not be in.

Yes, I agree, go out with someone twice and it should be obvious that I'm interested. She agreed to go out with ME twice, but if you apply women's rules that might mean she isn't all that interested in me, just not completely repulsed either, and willing to see how it goes from there.

The thing is, the "Don Juan" rules don't take into account the variability in women, and I can't predict beforehand how to react. The DJ rules often suggest she should pursue you, but that does not reflect reality in most dating situations-THE GUY must ask for dates and take control. Of course, I realize advice varies, but what I'm trying NOT to do is repeat the mistakes of my past. That still doesn't get me anywhere, because getting a chick something on Valentine's Day is a crapshoot. Does doing so make you a ***** AFC or a considerate Don Juan?

My gut tells me if she's into me she'll go along with whatever I do. It's just that I would like for my behavior to convince a few of the undecided hotter chicks I'm a find (which I think I am) rather than desperate. Hell, I don't mind dating a few other people, and I'm definitely not the type to call someone all the time. Just for the hell of it, I asked a few women friends what to do, and they said, "Hell yes get her something!"

When I suggested that some advice said to get her nothing and ignore her, they said, "This is a Ph.d candidate, right? She returns your calls, right? Don't you think games and skipping Valentine's will piss her off?"

The flip side of that, I guess, is that women feel free to keep you confused about their interest level in you in the early stages of the relationship.

What do you guys say to these comments? Consider me an open mind, I'm still willing to listen to all advice.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by johnnyrem
Yes, I agree, go out with someone twice and it should be obvious that I'm interested. She agreed to go out with ME twice, but if you apply women's rules that might mean she isn't all that interested in me, just not completely repulsed either, and willing to see how it goes from there.

So given that it's not readily apparent whether she's interested or not, why do anything 'special' for Valentines Day? Would you want her to be interested in you because you bought her affection?

Play it cool as she is doing. You've had just enough interest to ask her out a second time, you're just seeing where things will go. However, understand that neither of you will get anywhere waiting for the other although buying things isn't the best way to determine where you stand or to spur things along.

 

[johnnyrem]

Francisco, that's the best damn advice I've heard.

What I'm trying to do here is finally, for once in my life, date at the level I want, and by that I mean date successfully the women who are really attractive to me. I confess I've never really done that, because my game has been so poor.

Women are always telling me how cute I am. Not to show up the guys on the other part of the forum, but I've been into physical exercise and working out far longer than most, and in that area I could give some of the other guys on this forum advice. The girls at the gym, I am told, call me "the body." What has that got me up to this point? Not a whole lot with the women I'm attracted to. Many times in the past I've tried to be helpful or considerate at the wrong times to women on dates and elsewhere (read: too soon, or without justification) and I think the challenge just wasn't there for them. Result? No girlfriend when I really cared about getting a particular girl. Francisco, thanks for reminding me about that with your last post. I'm afraid I WANT women to like me, and that was driving them away. Hopefully that makes me move toward a RAFC rather than still remaining just an AFC.

A lot of women friends are utterly amazed (they say) about how infrequently I have an attractive chick on my arm. Slowly, I am beginning to understand some of my past failures with help from you guys. But it's really been unsatisfying so far, in that I really thought I should be doing better with women than I have.

I really want to turn this around, and I have been applying myself lately-taking chances, but most of all, trying to do something DIFFERENT than all of those past behaviors that didn't get me anywhere. It has done me a lot of good to find this site, and with a little help, I might actually get somewhere.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by johnnyrem
Francisco, that's the best damn advice I've heard.

What I'm trying to do here is finally, for once in my life, date at the level I want, and by that I mean date successfully the women who are really attractive to me. I confess I've never really done that, because my game has been so poor.

JohnnyR, congratulations for realizing one of the seldom spoken perks of DJism, choice. It's not about just attracting all the women, it's about attracting and selecting the women you want.

This is a major turn of the tables because in normal society, women select us. Many DJ wannabes focus their efforts on how to become the selected and not the Zen-level of DJing where we are in complete control.

It sounds like you have a lot to offer the right woman. Most women will accept you but come on now, why should you settle for just any woman? However, you do have something about you that may make things a little difficult for you if not handled appropriately; your need to want women to like you.

Now don't get me wrong, it's a wondrous thing to have women like you, the more the better. The key is how do you go about doing it and what do you do after it's apparent that they like you? Controlling those two things will enable you to be liked AND respected which can lead for more women to want to like you as more than just a friend.

How do you make them like you? Flirt with them, all of them. Deny no woman your charismatic charm, however don't give them all of it. Be friendly, jovial, complementary (only genuinely though) and kino with them often once you gain true rapport with them.

Now, the key to making this work is two fold. First, NEVER treat any of the woman as very special by devoting any of your attention (one on one) unless she is one that you would like to pursue. Don't take any of them out to dinner, do not talk with them late night on the phone, do not become their emotional tampon. Keep you controlled DJism within crowds of women.

Second, only give the controlled special attention to the ones you want to pursue (after qualifying them of course). This pertains to what I posted previously. Make her sell herself to you. Put yourself in the position of making the choice. Stay in control and make her work for it.

She'll go nuts trying to figure you out because you are not playing by the rules that she read in the latest "Cosmo" but she'll love the challenge. At least she will if she merits your attention and has a high IL.

Good luck and use your new found power wisely...

 

[johnnyrem]

Francisco, advice noted. I admit I'll have to almost beat my head against the wall to keep from repeating some of my past AFC behaviors-but I'll do it.

One of the things that helped me most was the realization that I was doing everything about 180 degrees wrong. After my past experiences, I've had to undo almost everything I thought I knew, which was so wrong I almost can't believe it.

No game? I had so little game it was minus game. I had a lot of women that came on to me (almost all attractive, you'd think I'd learn something from that) that called it quits after a couple of dates. Since I couldn't get any of them, I figured I wasn't that attractive, and started dating chicks I didn't care for, some to the point of where they didn't even do all that much for me sexually. Yes, I was that bad.

There comes a point in your life where you get most of your **** together and then realize what you're really missing is dating women you're really attracted to. I don't know what that's like (for more than a few weeks) but I'm aiming to find out. Wish me luck. This should be interesting, will keep you updated.