Two Close Friends Having a Good Time Together

[Mr. Kalikoat]

Whenever I think I have figured women out, I discover that I really don't have figured them out at all. Hear this:

So I recently met this cute French girl through my best friend. She's a roommate of him and so when I was at their place that's when I met her.
For some reason this chick decided to tell me she recently got dumped by her boyfriend and she tried to use me as a shoulder to cry on. I pretended to listen but I kept an Alpha frame and really didn't care about her drama. I was still with my ex back then but I did flirt a bit with this French girl because that's just how I am (I always flirt with all pretty women).
So recently I broke up with my ex, and not long after this French chick approached me and asked me out. Yes, you're reading that right, she asked me out. Can you f*cking believe it? I was genuinely surprised myself, but I agreed and told her I would let her know when I have time for her. She gave me her number and told me to Whatsapp her when I know. And I did. A week later I told her that there will be a Jazz festival in town and I'm going to take her there. She thought that was a great idea.

So far so good right? Looks like this chick is definitely interested right? Well, then the following happened that just genuinely confused the f*ck out of me:

She and I planned a date together, and when everything was set she asked me: "What will we do for dinner that day?"
I said: "Well I'm a really good cook, so I'm going to take you to my place and I'll cook something nice for us. You'll be surprised how good it will taste."
She, knowing what my place looks like and knowing that I have no garden or balcony or any place to sit outside, replied: "Well, the weather will be really nice that day so I rather sit outside. How about you take me out for dinner and we'll eat somewhere nice in the city outdoors?"
When I was staring with disbelief at her she quickly added: "Don't get me wrong, I don't want this to be a romantic date or anything. Let me be very clear, I'm not interested in that. In my eyes we're just two very close friends having a good time together." (note: This chick and I barely know each other. I don't consider her a friend at all, nevermind a close one.)
I still couldn't believe what this chick was saying. But after a brief pause I decided to go with the agree-and-amplify response: "I agree, we're just two very close friends having a good time, which is why I'm genuinely surprised why you want me to take you out for dinner. I only do that with chicks who I have a romantic interest in. But f*ck it, I'm down. But let me be very clear as well; I'm not going to pay for your dinner. You pay for your food, I pay for mine. After all, we're just very close friends having a good time and I normally don't pay dinner for my friends, not even my very close ones."
She agreed and then I decided which restaurant I'm gonna take her out to.

But seriously, what the actual f*ck? What's wrong with this chick? Is she actually interested in me or not? Do you think she wants me as a f*ck buddy, or did she actually try to put me into the friendzone?
If she's trying to put me into the friendzone, she's out of luck. I'm not gonna let that happen. Thursday is the day of the date, and I'm definitely going to try to physically escalate with her. I've decided I'm going to use her "very close friends having a good time" bullcrap against her. If she is hesitant about me physically escalating, I'll just say: "Hey, don't worry about it, we're just two very close friends having a good time, remember?"

I'm genuinely curious how this date will play out. What do you guys think?

 

[Vice]

LOL don't think of it as a date. She seems like she's on the validation rebound and is looking for attention and a free meal. You did a good job trying to deflect it into dinner at your house you sly b*astard, but you shouldn't have agreed to a woman asking you out in that manner. It seems like any time a woman approaches a man, there's always some kind of angle...

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Allow me to un-confuse you and show you where you went wrong:

What she said: "What will we do for dinner that day?"
What she meant: "What are you going to do to try and impress me and show me you really want ME, not just my body?"

What you said: "Well I'm a really good cook, so I'm going to take you to my place and I'll cook something nice for us. You'll be surprised how good it will taste."
What she HEARD: "Well, I'm not really trying to take you out on an actual date - my plan is to entice you here with food, in the hopes that you'll come back to my place and I'll have an easy lay without having had to actually work for it."

And thus, the reason she responded the way she did. When you plan a first date with a woman, a "sit at home and cook/watch movie" date shouldn't even be on the list of things you mention. Otherwise, she's going to FEEL as though you're only wanting her for a booty call.

What she said next: "Well, the weather will be really nice that day so I rather sit outside. How about you take me out for dinner and we'll eat somewhere nice in the city outdoors?"
What she meant: "I'm giving you one last time to think about the 'date' you're trying to plan for me, in hopes that you're not like all the other guys out there that just want to take me home without even trying to show me they want more from me than a one-night stand."
How you responded: -BLANK STARE-
What she heard: "Woman, are you crazy? I don't want to actually take you out, I'm just trying to get some!!"
What she said next: "Don't get me wrong, I don't want this to be a romantic date or anything. Let me be very clear, I'm not interested in that. In my eyes we're just two very close friends having a good time together."
Translation: "That's it, I'm not interested anymore. But, I've already agreed to go out with you, so I'll have to throw the whole 'friendship' thing out there as a consolation prize."

Also, in reference to the other comment left thus far: women aren't always on the lookout for a "free meal." However, they ARE looking for some kind of evidence that the guy asking her out isn't just trying to use her as a c*m deposit box either. If anything, she probably got the feeling you weren't going to offer some kind of REAL date - i.e. dinner, movie, coffee shop, etc. - and threw out the dinner request as a means of helping this guy to come up with something, ANYTHING other than what she was expecting and inevitably got from him: an invite for a home date.

Bury it in your head: HOME DATES ARE NO-NO SUGGESTIONS FOR FIRST DATES.

Hope this helps!

 

[abe0]

I agree with Wilmington 100% and the problem was not her but you. You should just have taken her out to a restaurant and not a home cook meal which in her eyes it means.....you will cook for me and expect to f me right after. You should wait a few dates for that. Go out ... have fun....and if I were you I would pay for her dinner to show you still have an interest in dating and not just friendship. I think she has a high level of interest.....but the home cook meal backfired. Take a step back....slow down....and I think you will still get what you really are after. Abe

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

Dudes I did not plan a home date. I'm actually going to take her out to a Jazz festival in the afternoon and then have some coffee with her afterwards. THEN I would take her home for dinner because restaurants are expensive, I'm not rich, and on top of that restaurants will not allow you to physically escalate. She knew I was going to take her to the Jazz festival, which is exactly why she asked what we'd do after it for dinner.

I'm just not the restaurant kind of guy because that's seriously the worst kind of date to have as a first date. I've had some success with taking chicks out for dinner, but I usually do that after I've already established some sort of romantic relationship with her. Taking a girl out for dinner on the first date is what Beta chumps do and it will usually not get you laid, and that is indeed exactly my intention with this chick.

In my opinion, she's asking me out, then she wants me to plan the actual date (which is fine, I rather plan my dates instead of letting girls do it), but then she has the nerve to demand that I take her out for dinner. Who the f*ck doe she think she is? Seems like this b*tch has quite an inflated ego and I'm not going to feed that ego of hers. I don't see relationship material in her and yes, I indeed hoped to just get a lay or f*ck buddy out of this (and I know she's open to that because my friend told me she had f*ck buddies in the past). If that's not gonna happen then too bad, NEXT.

and if I were you I would pay for her dinner to show you still have an interest in dating and not just friendship.

LMAO are you for real? I'm not going to pay for her dinner dude. That is Beta as f*ck. I'd just look like some kind of Beta provider to her. No thanks. Beta bucks, Alpha f*cks. The whole reason why I wanted to cook for her at my own place, other than getting laid, is because I don't have a lot of money right now. You think I can afford paying dinner for two right now? Well, doesn't matter, because even if I could I still wouldn't do it. I never had to do that sh*t in the past to get laid and I'm certainly not gonna do it now.

I think she has a high level of interest.....but the home cook meal backfired. Take a step back....slow down....and I think you will still get what you really are after. Abe

Well I think you're right about that. I'll just take it easy Thursday. Right now I have a major fever so depending on how I feel on Thursday I might decide to just call her off and rearrange for drinks another time.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

My statement still stands - for a first date, no kind of home activity should be planned. Kudos for planning the Jazz festival stuff (which you should have mentioned before), but most festivals have food at them. Bottom line: if you can't afford to feed her, just plan one activity to start then send her home. No need in planning an all-day affair with a chick for a first date, it should only be 90 minutes tops. Longer dates come later, ideally with food involved so she won't be starving.

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

My statement still stands - for a first date, no kind of home activity should be planned. Kudos for planning the Jazz festival stuff (which you should have mentioned before), but most festivals have food at them. Bottom line: if you can't afford to feed her, just plan one activity to start then send her home. No need in planning an all-day affair with a chick for a first date, it should only be 90 minutes tops. Longer dates come later, ideally with food involved so she won't be starving.

Yeah I should have mentioned the Jazz festival.

Just out of curiosity: Why are you folks so firmly against home activities on the first date? I've done it before and it worked out for me several times. In fact I took my ex home (and she even stayed for the night) on the first date and that turned into a relationship that lasted for 1 year.

I'm a busy man and I really don't like wasting time on women. I rather go for the bang as quickly as possible. Doesn't mean I'm not open for an LTR. As I said, I banged my ex on our first date and she became my LTR girlfriend for 1 year. I just don't see the point on wasting time on women if you're not getting anything in return.

 

[Desdinova]

Why are you folks so firmly against home activities on the first date?

Women will over-interpret situations whether you like it or not. Taking her to your place is intimidating for women because of the likelihood that you will try to take advantage of her, and she doesn't really know you all that well. The best bet is to do something non-threatening for a first date. If you REALLY want to fvck a woman on the first date, take her out to a couple of different places and THEN take her to your place to show her some artwork or some 5hit.

Mystery stated that it generally takes 7 hours of time spent with a woman before she's ready to fvck. That's a good general rule to keep in mind. However, there will be the occasional exception.

Non-threatening dates will allow you to escalate to a level where she's ready to fvck you. You need to get the natural progression happening before you can do something a bit more 'personal' or 'intimate' like cooking dinner for her. You need to get in your kino and the first kiss first.

 

[Trump]

Whenever I think I have figured women out, I discover that I really don't have figured them out at all. Hear this:

So I recently met this cute French girl through my best friend.
A week later I told her that there will be a Jazz festival in town and I'm going to take her there. She thought that was a great idea.

She and I planned a date together, and when everything was set she asked me: "What will we do for dinner that day?"
I said: "Well I'm a really good cook, so I'm going to take you to my place and I'll cook something nice for us. You'll be surprised how good it will taste."
She, knowing what my place looks like and knowing that I have no garden or balcony or any place to sit outside, replied: "Well, the weather will be really nice that day so I rather sit outside. How about you take me out for dinner and we'll eat somewhere nice in the city outdoors?"
When I was staring with disbelief at her she quickly added: "Don't get me wrong, I don't want this to be a romantic date or anything. Let me be very clear, I'm not interested in that. In my eyes we're just two very close friends having a good time together." (note: This chick and I barely know each other. I don't consider her a friend at all, nevermind a close one.)
I still couldn't believe what this chick was saying. But after a brief pause I decided to go with the agree-and-amplify response: "I agree, we're just two very close friends having a good time, which is why I'm genuinely surprised why you want me to take you out for dinner. I only do that with chicks who I have a romantic interest in. But f*ck it, I'm down. But let me be very clear as well; I'm not going to pay for your dinner. You pay for your food, I pay for mine. After all, we're just very close friends having a good time and I normally don't pay dinner for my friends, not even my very close ones."
She agreed and then I decided which restaurant I'm gonna take her out to.

But seriously, what the actual f*ck? What's wrong with this chick? Is she actually interested in me or not? Do you think she wants me as a f*ck buddy, or did she actually try to put me into the friendzone?
If she's trying to put me into the friendzone, she's out of luck. I'm not gonna let that happen. Thursday is the day of the date, and I'm definitely going to try to physically escalate with her. I've decided I'm going to use her "very close friends having a good time" bullcrap against her. If she is hesitant about me physically escalating, I'll just say: "Hey, don't worry about it, we're just two very close friends having a good time, remember?"

I'm genuinely curious how this date will play out. What do you guys think?

First of all, I cannot believe your best friend set you up with:

1) a girl
2) a French girl
3 a hot French girl

Most of my friends would not only tell me to go to hell is I showed any interest to a girl they knew, they would try to break me up with any girl I'm dating.

But anyways, I disagree with Harry and others. The nerve she has to say "what do we do for dinner that day?" Who says she is special enough for you to take her to dinner on a FIRST date? She shouldn't be asking anything like that or remotely close, she should be concerned about not spending your hard earned money. First date should be coffee and cake, $20 max, She shouldn't expect you to spend much on her at all for the first date. Then when you OFFER to cook a nice meal for her, she tells you to go to hell, she wants to eat out and spend your money.

I think you did everything perfect This chick may just be looking for validation or an ego boost from you.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

But anyways, I disagree with Harry and others. The nerve she has to say "what do we do for dinner that day?" Who says she is special enough for you to take her to dinner on a FIRST date? She shouldn't be asking anything like that or remotely close, she should be concerned about not spending your hard earned money. First date should be coffee and cake, $20 max, She shouldn't expect you to spend much on her at all for the first date.

I agree with your assessment of what a first date should consist of. The problem here, though, is that this isn't what he presented to her. He offered to take her to a Jazz festival. He didn't lay out for her how long they were going to be at said Jazz festival, and those things can go on for HOURS. So, let's take a look at what he presented:

1. Jazz Festival - in her head, she doesn't know the length of time, so it could easily be a 3-hour date
2. Coffee - the assumption could be made by her that they're going to sit and have coffee and talk for at least an hour. If we tack that on to the 3-hour length of time she assumes could be spent at the Jazz festival, that's FOUR HOURS being spent together, not including the drive to these places.

Now me, I just got back from a full day at an amusement park (which my girlfriend surprised me with and was nice enough to pay for both of us). I ate breakfast at 10 AM (which she also made for me). Fast-forward to 1:30 PM, and after having been on 6 roller coasters and a few other rides, I told her it was time to get lunch 'cause I was hungry - and so was she.

In other words, after three-and-a-half hours, WE BOTH NEEDED TO EAT SOMETHING.

So, here you have this girl thinking to herself: "Wow, after 3 hours at the Jazz festival, he's talking about going to get coffee afterward? Why not just get some REAL food, 'cause we'll both be hungry by then!" It's not about her trying to get money out of you, and it's not about her trying to run the show, or make you look beta, or a hundred other things that bitter guys on this board will have you believing. It's just simply a biological need that, after a few hours of not eating, the next thing she may want to do is get food in her stomach.

This, by the way, is why you don't plan out long first dates - you put in enough time to make a good impression, then BAM - you get out of there before you have to spend extra money simply because YOU decided you wanted to keep her around you longer. This guy didn't have a solid plan, he didn't let her know how long they'd be together, and in fact he was trying to pile on too many activities in the beginning. So yeah, she had a right to ask about some friggin' dinner, given that she didn't know how long they'd be out; and, she had every right to NOT want to go to his home to get fed on the first date as well - she doesn't really know him like that yet and may actually need some time to, oh I dunno, have a few more convos with him and feel him out as a person before she decides to give up the cooch for him. Reality check: just because YOU think you're a nice guy doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to wait and see for herself.

 

[abe0]

Yes "dude" I am for real. Quit reading everything on this site as gospel truth and taking a woman out to dinner on the first date is not a Beta move.
Second, you are talking out of both ends. Doubting her relationship material ...but sounding like you wanted a one nighter. She called you on it....an maybe she is of higher quality than you give her credit.
Sometimes a little investment in time and money might go a long ways if you really wanted this lady. Instead, you just wanted to cook her a meal and jump in her pants. BTW, you left all the other details about taking her to a club...which you later mentioned and I think is just covering your tracks for your screw up. Heck, you were going to take her to a club, buy her drinks, cook dinner for her at your house.....how many hours where you planning on spending with heron your first date to do all of that? How much more Beta can you really get on the first date than that.....don't forget to greet her with a dozen roses too!
Good luck, try not to get so defensive and put down women so quickly for your own mistake and ignorance.....and Lord knows I made plenty of those mistakes myself. You asked for advice...some people gave it to you....the least you can say is "THANKS".. Abe

 

[Alvafe]

Abe direrent things for diferent folks, and ages I guess, he is 25 you 49, call me on it, but I see people around your age going for dinner more then younger ones (hell even me don't ever did a dinner date), plus we alwyas say here try action dates over dinner dates, and she was the one who asked him out.

on his shoes I would just say we see after the festival, no reason to consider anything, or I would even toss the "a so not only you asking me out but also want to pay me dinner? how nice of you!"

again remember guys she was the one who asked him out.

and Harry that is too much overthinking on the time frame used on that festival, I would still not plan that much, and let the flow tell me what would happen

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

Yes "dude" I am for real. Quit reading everything on this site as gospel truth and taking a woman out to dinner on the first date is not a Beta move.

If I where reading EVERYTHING on this site as gospel truth I would take your opinion as gospel truth as well wouldn't I? But I'm not doing that.

As I said, I never had to pay dinner for any girl in the past, why would I do that now? Paying for her dinner is basically pedestrianizing her. It's what all the Betas do in order to woo her. I won't stand out of the crowd, she will get her validation that she wants and in the end she can still decide to just ditch or friendzone me, making my money spend on her a waste of money.

She's not gonna spend any money on me, so why should I spend money on her? Chivalry is for chumps and losers.

Second, you are talking out of both ends. Doubting her relationship material ...but sounding like you wanted a one nighter. She called you on it....an maybe she is of higher quality than you give her credit.

Not just a one nighter, preferably friends with benefits. And if she is higher quality than I give her credit then it's up to her to prove that tomorrow.

A DJ doesn't wonder if he is worth this woman's time, he wonders if this woman is worth his time. If she's not worth my time, she's out.

Sometimes a little investment in time and money might go a long ways if you really wanted this lady. Instead, you just wanted to cook her a meal and jump in her pants.

Cooking a meal is more investment than just paying for dinner. Being a good cook is more impressive and worth more than spending 20 bucks on dinner for her. How many men can genuinely say they can cook really well? And she knows how well I can cook. I've cooked with my best friend (her roommate) several times at their place. She has seen and smelled the food I prepare. She knows it's good stuff.

BTW, you left all the other details about taking her to a club...which you later mentioned and I think is just covering your tracks for your screw up.

What? I never said I'm taking her to a club. Where did you get that from? Do you even read my posts? I'm going to take her to a Jazz festival in town.

And I'm not covering any tracks either. Why the hell would I do that?

And you don't know if I screwed up or not. That depends on how she will react to me tomorrow.

Heck, you were going to take her to a club, buy her drinks, cook dinner for her at your house.....how many hours where you planning on spending with her on your first date to do all of that? How much more Beta can you really get on the first date than that.....don't forget to greet her with a dozen roses too!

Says the one who is willing to pay for her dinner on the first date. LMAO. You have no right to call me a Beta my friend.

If I want to waste money on girls I'll go get myself a hooker. They're legal where I live anyway and at least with a hooker I know for sure I'll get my money's worth. What's the point in wasting money on a chick if you're not even sure she's gonna have sex with you? Hell, what's the point in wasting money on a chick if you ARE sure she's gonna have sex with you?

It's all about the game man. If your game is tight you don't need to waste a single penny on lizards. Buying her dinner and drinks won't get you laid, only Betas think it will.

Good luck, try not to get so defensive and put down women so quickly for your own mistake and ignorance....and Lord knows I made plenty of those mistakes myself. You asked for advice...some people gave it to you....the least you can say is "THANKS".. Abe

I'm not defensive, I'm just genuinely surprised by your in my opinion sh*tty advice. I think your advice is pretty Beta and I'm calling you out on it. Maybe I should give you advice on how to get women?

You'll get my thanks when you give me advice that actually works or at the very least might work. Paying dinner and drinks for a lizard is something I know for sure doesn't work and that's really all I'm saying.

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

Abe direrent things for diferent folks, and ages I guess, he is 25 you 49, call me on it, but I see people around your age going for dinner more then younger ones (hell even me don't ever did a dinner date), plus we alwyas say here try action dates over dinner dates, and she was the one who asked him out.

on his shoes I would just say we see after the festival, no reason to consider anything, or I would even toss the "a so not only you asking me out but also want to pay me dinner? how nice of you!"

again remember guys she was the one who asked him out.

and Harry that is too much overthinking on the time frame used on that festival, I would still not plan that much, and let the flow tell me what would happen

Thanks Alvafe, you're exactly right.

And yeah that "a so not only you asking me out but also want to pay me dinner? how nice of you!" line would have been a pretty solid response. I wish I would have thought of that myself. I'll keep it in mind for next time!

 

[Kailex]

I think you have already invested a lot into this mentally as far as to what it all is. Whether it's a date or a hangout... forget "what it is" and remember what the goal should be.

Her labeling you is solely for HER, mentally and emotionally.

Push the boundaries and escalate accordingly. Just try to have fun.
You seem peeved about what the whole night is coined as. Is she showing up? That's all that matters and you take it from there.

LEAD.

If she shoots you down all night, cut the night early, go do something else, more productive with your time. But don't be hung up on what she is saying to you or how she is trying to peg this night. Once you fall into that trap, you are going to be self-aware all night long. It should be about having fun and showing her a good time. Let everything else flow from that.

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

I agree with your assessment of what a first date should consist of. The problem here, though, is that this isn't what he presented to her. He offered to take her to a Jazz festival. He didn't lay out for her how long they were going to be at said Jazz festival, and those things can go on for HOURS. So, let's take a look at what he presented:

1. Jazz Festival - in her head, she doesn't know the length of time, so it could easily be a 3-hour date
2. Coffee - the assumption could be made by her that they're going to sit and have coffee and talk for at least an hour. If we tack that on to the 3-hour length of time she assumes could be spent at the Jazz festival, that's FOUR HOURS being spent together, not including the drive to these places.

Now me, I just got back from a full day at an amusement park (which my girlfriend surprised me with and was nice enough to pay for both of us). I ate breakfast at 10 AM (which she also made for me). Fast-forward to 1:30 PM, and after having been on 6 roller coasters and a few other rides, I told her it was time to get lunch 'cause I was hungry - and so was she.

In other words, after three-and-a-half hours, WE BOTH NEEDED TO EAT SOMETHING.

So, here you have this girl thinking to herself: "Wow, after 3 hours at the Jazz festival, he's talking about going to get coffee afterward? Why not just get some REAL food, 'cause we'll both be hungry by then!" It's not about her trying to get money out of you, and it's not about her trying to run the show, or make you look beta, or a hundred other things that bitter guys on this board will have you believing. It's just simply a biological need that, after a few hours of not eating, the next thing she may want to do is get food in her stomach.

This, by the way, is why you don't plan out long first dates - you put in enough time to make a good impression, then BAM - you get out of there before you have to spend extra money simply because YOU decided you wanted to keep her around you longer. This guy didn't have a solid plan, he didn't let her know how long they'd be together, and in fact he was trying to pile on too many activities in the beginning. So yeah, she had a right to ask about some friggin' dinner, given that she didn't know how long they'd be out; and, she had every right to NOT want to go to his home to get fed on the first date as well - she doesn't really know him like that yet and may actually need some time to, oh I dunno, have a few more convos with him and feel him out as a person before she decides to give up the cooch for him. Reality check: just because YOU think you're a nice guy doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to wait and see for herself.

You're absolutely right Harry. Solid advice on the "piling too many activities for the first date". I did have it all planned out though, but I suppose I indeed planned too much for a first date. I guess I made this mistake exactly because I indeed don't know her that well and I want to get to know her to find out if she's worth to be a girlfriend or not. Spending an afternoon together and then cooking a meal together is a good way to get to know each other.

Yes, of course I wanted to get her to my place to improve my chances of f*cking this girl on the first date, and yes I know she might have realized what my intentions are, which might indeed be the reason why she wanted to change that part of the date. That already tells me she's either:

1) not interested in being f*ck buddies and perhaps wants a serious relationship instead, or

2) she's just throwing some major sh!t tests at me, she is French after all, and I know how goddamn complicated French women can be, or

3) she's just wasting my time and simply wants to use me to get her mind off of her ex.

We'll see which of those 3 it's gonna be tomorrow. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

First of all, I cannot believe your best friend set you up with:

1) a girl
2) a French girl
3 a hot French girl

Most of my friends would not only tell me to go to hell is I showed any interest to a girl they knew, they would try to break me up with any girl I'm dating.

Well, my best friend is gay and my wing man when we go out clubbing. He hooks me up with chicks, I hook him up with dudes. That's how we roll.

 

[The_411]

Mr. Kalikoat there's nothing wrong with a 1st date lay but understand that her response was just a variation on LMR as you were a bit too overt. If you end up your house by chance then great but planning to go after the Jazz Festival is a bit too incongruent. It almost says hey let's have fun be out and about and spontaneous but then we're going to shift to a planned date and the focus is on getting laid.

For some/many women they need the excuse clause as to avoid slut shaming.

The Jazz festival transitioning into a light meal (none of that fining dining ****e as she has to earn that privilege) then moving onto drinks and dancing would allow for appropriate venue changes and allow to a move back to your place to much more likely.

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

Mr. Kalikoat there's nothing wrong with a 1st date lay but understand that her response was just a variation on LMR as you were a bit too overt. If you end up your house by chance then great but planning to go after the Jazz Festival is a bit too incongruent. It almost says hey let's have fun be out and about and spontaneous but then we're going to shift to a planned date and the focus is on getting laid.

For some/many women they need the excuse clause as to avoid slut shaming.

The Jazz festival transitioning into a light meal (none of that fining dining ****e as she has to earn that privilege) then moving onto drinks and dancing would allow for appropriate venue changes and allow to a move back to your place to much more likely.

Solid advice there mate. Thanks.

Yes, I was a bit too direct. It's in my nature. I need to stop that bad habit. I would never have mentioned beforehand that I wanted to take her home for dinner if she didn't ask. It's the fact that she asked about dinner that I decided to tell her, without really thinking about it. I guess that was my biggest and only real mistake here.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

It's not even about being so direct with your plans; it's the fact that you're (a) giving away the whole story (thus not allowing any parts of the date to be a surprise to her), and (b) setting her up to have to turn down your requests because she doesn't want to be viewed as a slvt or some other kind of judgement against her.

Also, you have to get out of your head this idea that if she doesn't score with you on the first date that she won't let you bang her at all. You have to realize that both sexes operate differently. Men are hunters: we see a target, we know we want it, and we go in for the kill. And we want our kill NOW. This is where men end up shooting themselves in the foot - by thinking that because THEY can see something and be ready to "take it down" that women also think with this mentality. But they don't. Women are the nesters - they are perfectly comfortable waiting around until they feel ready to be taken. Men who don't understand this can't figure out why a woman won't sleep with them right away, despite thinking he knows she wants him.

But real talk: I've had girls in the past I dated that I took out to dinner on the first date, then made THEM wait until I was ready to hook up with them. For some of them it was by the 2nd date; for others, it was 2 months. But the point is, it's not about the meal, or appearing all Beta by paying for them - girls could give a rat's behind about that.

It's about the mentality you have when you take them out. Guys on here are afraid that paying for a chick's meal on that first date makes them out to be chumps. It doesn't. Your ATTITUDE and CHARACTER TRAITS - i.e. your general disposition in life, how you feel about yourself, how confident you are, etc. - are the things chicks are going to end up being attracted to. I once spent $65 on a first date with a woman - I took her out to dinner at P.F. Changs - but I didn't feel bad about it because it was something I was doing for ME, not for HER. I hit her up and said I felt hungry and wanted some Changs, and asked her if she'd join me. That was our first date - and yes, I paid for dinner, and no, I didn't go into the date with the mentality that I'd get sex, or be willing to have it if she was in the mood. 2 months later, I had this chick all over me begging me to stick it in her.

So, with some chicks, being patient is also a virtue - they can smell desperation, and I have found that the less desperate you look to get some, the sooner they'll give it to you. Which, again, is why inviting a chick over for dinner on that first date is a horrible idea - it would be better for HER to suggest something like that for a first date than you; on the other hand, had you NOT suggested it, you could have slyly mentioned your cooking skills while at the Jazz festival (as bait) and waited for her to say something like "Hmm, perhaps we could have a meal at your place after this?" Going back to the whole "being direct" thing - and I get it because I used to be the same way when I was in my 20s - you have to learn to set up scenarios for women where they can have a built-in excuse for whatever choices they decide to make on the date so they won't feel guilty about it later. When you said "hey, come to my home for dinner," the anti-slvt defense automatically went up. Why? Think about it: what's she going to tell her girlfriends when they ask her what you two are doing on the date? "Oh, I'm going to his house for dinner..." Automatically, her GFs are going to be judging her, and she doesn't want that. On the other hand, if you had just said the Jazz festival, and you just HAPPENED to end up at your place later, she has a more plausible story - "Oh, well we went to the Jazz festival, and then he told me about this dish that he's known for cooking, and I just had to have it, so we went to his place and he made it for me... and the next thing I know..." - and thus will feel like less of a slvt since "things just happened."

Yeah. Gotta learn to play the game. It sucks, but the outcome is a LOT more fun