Turning 30 in a month. My conclusions and why I will be leaving the US.

Zimbabwe

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Once the green card/citizenship documents are confirmed they become western women. Third world countries get all the media, the West does, these women aren’t stupid and are doing what it takes to get out of poverty.

90 day fiancé is fake as **** but it gives a lot of insight as to some of the real problems the people in these relationships will face. There’s been quite a few of those red pilled, “I’ve got everything I need she’s just got to be hot” types who bring these women into their lives and it becomes a disaster when they realize, for example, that third world women don’t cook or clean either, they expect to be taken out and for money to be spent on them, having a woman with no social circle means the men need to fill that void and it soon becomes glaringly obvious that two people from different parts of the world have almost nothing in common
 

DreamAgain

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I have no EE heritage (my heritage is WE), and I'd thrown in the towel on American chicks for quite some time, and had given up decent earnings to GeoMax in EE. Once a bare minimum of finances has been reached, the question becomes whether to continue to hustle to have more money and still get no poontang in the USA, vs. retiring very early and being in the game abroad. It was a fairly easy decision to do, although I've always wanted to retire very early.

As for you "running out of time", unless you age poorly, you will not have a problem at all.
Well, I do think a reasonable age gap is important. It is rather arbitrary, but I do not believe anything larger than 10 years is good.

The same age +/- 1 year is the best. It's the best alignment of life experiences, health, energy levels, societal expectations.

Following this is about 5 years. This is enough to wear the man is more established, has more security in life professionally and financially, and also matures a bit physically to be most attractive. So let's say the guy being 26-28 and the woman 21-23 as being most ideal.

After that, probably 8 to 9 years is the limit to where you begin to suspect how transactional the relationship is.
 

DreamAgain

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Once the green card/citizenship documents are confirmed they become western women. Third world countries get all the media, the West does, these women aren’t stupid and are doing what it takes to get out of poverty.

90 day fiancé is fake as **** but it gives a lot of insight as to some of the real problems the people in these relationships will face. There’s been quite a few of those red pilled, “I’ve got everything I need she’s just got to be hot” types who bring these women into their lives and it becomes a disaster when they realize, for example, that third world women don’t cook or clean either, they expect to be taken out and for money to be spent on them, having a woman with no social circle means the men need to fill that void and it soon becomes glaringly obvious that two people from different parts of the world have almost nothing in common
Yes this is true, and where your own responsibility and position becomes most important.

1. Are you going somewhere where you will not assimilate, and be prepared to not (potentially) be in it for the long haul.

2. Are you going somewhere where you have no prior connection or where there is a big racial or ethnic difference.

3. Are you going somewhere where you will flaunt your differences (financial and material) as to draw attention to yourself rather than your appearance, your hobbies, being interesting as a person rather than a walking ATM machine.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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Red flags are becoming more and more widespread as the influence of social media, technology in general, and dilution of education have continued to permeate throughout society. These effects are also seen in EE countries as these forces simply cannot be suppressed. However, I do think they are still at a lesser level there.
They are only lesser in places that haven't assimilated tech as much as the US. Like others mentioned, those countries are catching up. I share your idea of wanting a more traditional relationship and it's obviously true that a society less involved in tech will be better hunting grounds for that, I guess I'm not done exploring the options in the US despite the challenges and feel you're giving up on it too easily, but to each their own. Maybe you see more opportunity in general in other countries, nothing wrong with that.
I think a man's life is enhanced significantly by having the right wife and having a family with her. The love for one's wife and children are a unique experience in life that no mastery of a hobby, or acquisition of knowledge can necessarily replace.
This is obvious, but my point is there must be something to enhance. If you're focused on seeking a woman too much, it takes away from that something she will enhance, if that makes sense.

And from my experience focusing on the substance, identity, whatever you want to call it, eventually attracts women to you, where you have to do very little to have many options.

But there is a difference with having an acceptance that this is out of one's control necessarily, and accepting it and living life as you would, and not becoming desperate by it, which I am not.
The comments about ticking clock and moving primarily for the hunt have me doubtful, so this is good to hear.

So, I do not feel "beta" or co-dependent necessarily by wanting this, I see it as a natural thing that I would hope any man would want.
I've been meaning to write about how the same action can be coming from lack or abundance, the difference being only in intent. As long as you're keeping yourself in check I'm rooting for you. Seriously check back in when you get hitched!
 

DreamAgain

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They are only lesser in places that haven't assimilated tech as much as the US. Like others mentioned, those countries are catching up. I share your idea of wanting a more traditional relationship and it's obviously true that a society less involved in tech will be better hunting grounds for that, I guess I'm not done exploring the options in the US despite the challenges and feel you're giving up on it too easily, but to each their own. Maybe you see more opportunity in general in other countries, nothing wrong with that.

This is obvious, but my point is there must be something to enhance. If you're focused on seeking a woman too much, it takes away from that something she will enhance, if that makes sense.

And from my experience focusing on the substance, identity, whatever you want to call it, eventually attracts women to you, where you have to do very little to have many options.



The comments about ticking clock and moving primarily for the hunt have me doubtful, so this is good to hear.



I've been meaning to write about how the same action can be coming from lack or abundance, the difference being only in intent. As long as you're keeping yourself in check I'm rooting for you. Seriously check back in when you get hitched!
Well, to be fair. I am definitely in a lack of abundance.

I am definitely moving primarily for this reason. Professionally there is no advantage for me doing so.

But my conclusions are from two major reasons:

1) Life circumstances that prevented me from seizing the opportunity with certain women when the time and place was right. My growing up poor and focusing mostly on a technology and engineering focused field to get out of poverty did not afford me the right opportunities to meet women when I should have.

2) The USA poisoning the well, so to speak, with their own doing due to political and social policies as well as urban planning.

Only New York (Manhattan) has comparable urban planning to much smaller European cities that facilitates meeting a large number of women.

I'll be living downtown with cafes and restaurants in abundance, in addition to bars, gyms, and many other venues all within walking distance, and actual pedestrian traffic, and not be enslaved to the car-centrism paradigm that drastically limits the potentially meeting with new women and people in general.
 

SW15

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your chances of finding your "dream wife" would not have been better at an Ivy League school. Quite the opposite, in fact. Women who are attend Ivy League schools tend be less attractive than average, more feminist than average, and more entitled than average.
You're correct. If looking for an extended, committed relationship (doesn't even have to be marriage), you're better off looking at a basic state university in the USA as compared to an Ivy League school. A woman with a BA/BS from State U is less likely to be as big of a feminist/careerist than a woman with a BA/BS from an Ivy League school. Her less feminist/careerist orientation will make her at least a better in the girlfriend phase of the relationship. If you put a ring on it (a risky proposition for either State U woman or Ivy League woman), State U woman is likely going to be an overall better experience. You might get divorced from both State U woman and Ivy League woman, but the overall relationship will be better from State U woman.

Women with advanced degrees from any school are bad options for extended relationships.

If you want a more feminine woman, you want a woman whose maximum education level is a bachelor's degree from a public state university.

If you can get a good woman who has a lower level of educational attainment than a bachelor's degree, then that is the best option. In the roughly the second half of Gen X (1974-1981) and Millennials (1982-1996), women with lower levels of educational attainment tend to come with their own set of problems. Many of them had earlier in life failed marriages that led to babies being born, so there's a decent amount of single motherhood. Unless they went to trade school for something like dental hygiene, medical assisting, or maybe some IT work (rare), they might not have anything going on career wise. I know most men don't care about a woman's work. I don't, but a woman who is unstable at work is often unstable in their personal life. Unstable women in their personal lives are often big drama, which most men don't need. I anticipate that Gen Z (1997-2012) is likely to be similar as more mature. With women born prior to ~1974, there were plenty that had more going for them without going to college.

If I had learned Spanish in high school instead of French, I think I would have seriously looked into GeoMaxxing in Argentina; amazingly, next-door Chile is almost as bad as Canada for chicks.
I've never heard that Chilean women were like the Canadian women of South America. Chile has been one of the strongest economies and most stable governments in Latin America in the last 50 years.

In the early part of the 20th Century, Argentina was the pride of South America, with a stable govenment and prosperous economy. Buenos Aires was as advanced and cosmopolitan as Western Europe. Argentina has been a mess geopolitically and economically for a long time. The military dictatorship era of 1976-1983 was one of the low points, as was the 2001-02 era in which they had 5 presidents in a 2.5 week period. Argentine women tend to be quite difficult as well. Since Argentines like to think of themselves as Western Europeans in Latin America, they can act a lot like Western women.

Colombian and Venezuelan women tend to be the most physically attractive women of the Spanish speaking nations in South America. Those countries have been a mess in terms of politics and economics for decades.

The majority of women in South America are native Portuguese speakers due to Brazil. Brazilian women have a good reputation too.

take a yoga class, dance class, or gymnastics class to network with more women (these classes are usually overflowing with fit single women),
Fitness classes can be a good option from the perspective of ratios and avoiding earbuds. The most difficult thing at fitness classes can be actually getting women to engage. First off, you have a narrow window of 5 minutes before class and 5 minutes after class to do approaches. You might be able to make good eye contact and do some body language flirting during the 45-60 minutes of a fitness class. The biggest challenge is that a lot of the women who attend classes aren't that talkative before or after class. I have gotten dates from fitness classes so it's not impossible. It's not as fruitful as it might seem given the ratios.
 

DreamAgain

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@SW15 It depends what the advanced degree is in. At my university there were several Iranian women in graduate studies in engineering who had both brains and beauty, were feminine, etc.

They graduated the top university in Iran for STEM which you can google yourself, but they were all in relationships so making a move was not possible.

But as always, one cannot base anything on a few unicorns.
 

BillyPilgrim

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Well, to be fair. I am definitely in a lack of abundance.

I am definitely moving primarily for this reason. Professionally there is no advantage for me doing so.

But my conclusions are from two major reasons:

1) Life circumstances that prevented me from seizing the opportunity with certain women when the time and place was right. My growing up poor and focusing mostly on a technology and engineering focused field to get out of poverty did not afford me the right opportunities to meet women when I should have.

2) The USA poisoning the well, so to speak, with their own doing due to political and social policies as well as urban planning.

Only New York (Manhattan) has comparable urban planning to much smaller European cities that facilitates meeting a large number of women.

I'll be living downtown with cafes and restaurants in abundance, in addition to bars, gyms, and many other venues all within walking distance, and actual pedestrian traffic, and not be enslaved to the car-centrism paradigm that drastically limits the potentially meeting with new women and people in general.
Serious post, you should check out Mexicali on the California-Mexico border. There's a surprising amount of attractive, sweet, stylish and feminine women there compared to the U.S., at least on the apps. Much safer than other border towns like Tijuana or Juarez. The only thing is the summer heat.
 

Zimbabwe

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Yes this is true, and where your own responsibility and position becomes most important.

1. Are you going somewhere where you will not assimilate, and be prepared to not (potentially) be in it for the long haul.

2. Are you going somewhere where you have no prior connection or where there is a big racial or ethnic difference.

3. Are you going somewhere where you will flaunt your differences (financial and material) as to draw attention to yourself rather than your appearance, your hobbies, being interesting as a person rather than a walking ATM machine.
This isn't true tho, those women who go after Western guys know what to expect and they aren't seen as "normal" in their own cultures anyway. Because a normal woman marries a man from her own culture while still young. I'm from Eastern Europe. Those girls are usually leftovers, they can be really crazy. Many are just gold diggers. And EE women are way stronger and streetsmart than passive entitled Western women.

There are even more stories of guys who bought into that, uprooted their entire lives, moved over there and found even less success with women, because surprise surprise, women living in a world class city aren’t poor and see attractive men regularly. So an average white guy, who they can barely understand or communicate with, isn’t exactly enticing.

The majority of the western men travelling to those countries and finding “success” are doing it with poor women and prostitutes.
 

DreamAgain

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This isn't true tho, those women who go after Western guys know what to expect and they aren't seen as "normal" in their own cultures anyway. Because a normal woman marries a man from her own culture while still young. I'm from Eastern Europe. Those girls are usually leftovers, they can be really crazy. Many are just gold diggers. And EE women are way stronger and streetsmart than passive entitled Western women.

There are even more stories of guys who bought into that, uprooted their entire lives, moved over there and found even less success with women, because surprise surprise, women living in a world class city aren’t poor and see attractive men regularly. So an average white guy, who they can barely understand or communicate with, isn’t exactly enticing.

The majority of the western men travelling to those countries and finding “success” are doing it with poor women and prostitutes.
The whole point was you will not be advertising yourself as western. You will assimilate, and if you cannot then obviously you will attract the bad types you mentioned.
 
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I have to fully disagree with your decision. Sacrificing your quality of life for pvssy is not only asinine but simp level 9000. Especially when there might be a full scale war in that area. What is this country you are choosing in particular?
 

DreamAgain

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I have to fully disagree with your decision. Sacrificing your quality of life for pvssy is not only asinine but simp level 9000. Especially when there might be a full scale war in that area. What is this country you are choosing in particular?
I could tell you, but if you're the type of guy to simply view women as "pvssy" instead of the mother of your children then I don't think this is the thread for you.

It is the capital city of one of the countries in between Germany and Russia, so could be Prague, Warsaw, one of the Balkan Countries i.e. Sofia, Athens, etc.
 
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I could tell you, but if you're the type of guy to simply view women as "pvssy" instead of the mother of your children then I don't think this is the thread for you.

It is the capital city of one of the countries in between Germany and Russia, so could be Prague, Warsaw, one of the Balkan Countries, Athens, etc.
I don’t really, but it’s also on you to view the world in a neutral lens or doom and gloom red pill lens. There are plenty of functioning families in the US, yes you will hear horror stories but you will never hear 100% of the story. This is why men need to learn to filter/choose their women better which something puss and the red pilled do not preach.
 

DreamAgain

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I don’t really, but it’s also on you to view the world in a neutral lens or doom and gloom red pill lens. There are plenty of functioning families in the US, yes you will hear horror stories but you will never hear 100% of the story. This is why men need to learn to filter/choose their women better which something puss and the red pilled do not preach.
I agree, certainly if my experiment fails I will come back and make the most of what the US has to offer.
 

DreamAgain

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My experience is that there is a higher percentage of positive-minded, non-bytchy, interesting women outside the US. Having traveled a lot and now living abroad, I've just had many more happy experiences with non-US women, whether it be dating/fukking or just chatting.

I know a lot of guys will say that women are the same everywhere. To a point that's true. And most I meet still follow Instagram and US pop culture and shyt like that. But they just haven't been as vapid or shrill and seem to have more on their brains than materialistic nonsense.

Also, I know on SS people caution against moves like this as a "solution" to some internal problem. There's truth in that. Only you know for sure what you want - if you have the desire to make the change, do it. The challenges will be different but that is part of the adventure, and it will give you valuable experience as you continue building your life. Just don't go seeking some pu$$y paradise. Some countries in EE are still doing arranged marriages where women are pressured to marry as virgins by 20. Wherever you go it will present a whole new paradigm and set of challenges - nothing wrong with that, as long as you're prepared to adapt.

I could have stayed in the US and maintained my status quo. Instead I left and made things much "harder" for myself - but I've had a blast and haven't looked back. However, my decision had nothing to do with women and everything to do with pursuing new goals.
Fair enough good post, I would be curious to know what those new goals were if you don't mind sharing.

Career wise, there is no better country than the US for acquiring money, starting a business, meeting intellectuals, exchanging ideas, etc. Take a look at the best companies in the world and it's no coincidence where they are located.
 

DreamAgain

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Agreed, and if I were starting a business I would definitely move back to the US. No contest. I also still make money there, so I'm grateful to be able to do that.

Honestly one goal was simply to live abroad. So that was pretty straightforward. I wanted to try it. A secondary goal was that I needed to shake up my career path. I had tried for several years to pivot but I was stuck in a very good job that I'd been doing too long, with no interest in promotion on my part. So after tiring of trying to transition, I decided to just quit and move after saving some money.

I also wanted to change my quality of life. That can still be done in the US of course. But pursuant to goal #1 it made sense to try it overseas. The US is awash in resources but it's also easy to box yourself into unhealthy lifestyles if you're not careful. Not just physically but mentally/spiritually. I just happened to land in a place that was a better fit for me in terms of finding my center, if that makes sense. Again, it can be done anywhere, but surroundings count for something. If someone lived in the city but longed to be in the mountains, I wouldn't tell him to fix his state of mind before moving. One can live in the moment while also taking steps for his future.
Yes, I mean these are tertiary reasons for myself as well, as many things in the US annoy me (the car-dependent lifestyle, the homogenization of culture/society, consumerism lifestyle, the dilution of the education system aside from the very top where it is obviously best in the world, etc.)

But, I would say if I had already met the girl I wanted to marry and start a family with, I would suck it up and stay because I knew the financial and career opportunities to provide for my family would be best in the US. If I were to reach financial independence in the meantime then of course things would be re-evaluated.

Further, I could see so many examples how my life would be different if I wasn't poor growing up, so I think my kids could have a much, much better life in the US than I did as a kid. My life was not bad by any means per se, but being poor affects you here in ways I don't know if many people on SS can relate to.
 

Who Dares Win

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If you are 30 you are borderline to succeed in that.

For a guy and a girl to meet and bond strong enough to make a worthy family it takes him to be young enough not be worn out from women drama and for her not to be spoiled from riding the carousel...it takes the two of them to be together while growing in their youth and properly bond.

That doesnt happen in 3 months and surely doesnt happen to older ones...you are like in the red zone, few time left for finding a girl young and innocent enough and walk your path together, try to get a girl not older than 25.

Trust an old guy in his mid 30s that saw plenty of stuff in both the modern and the last decade world.
 

DreamAgain

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If you are 30 you are borderline to succeed in that.

For a guy and a girl to meet and bond strong enough to make a worthy family it takes him to be young enough not be worn out from women drama and for her not to be spoiled from riding the carousel...it takes the two of them to be together while growing in their youth and properly bond.

That doesnt happen in 3 months and surely doesnt happen to older ones...you are like in the red zone, few time left for finding a girl young and innocent enough and walk your path together, try to get a girl not older than 25.

Trust an old guy in his mid 30s that saw plenty of stuff in both the modern and the last decade world.
Yes, that is why I have a larger sense of urgency about it. Not a panic, as I will mentally accept whatever outcome, but awareness that the time in the game is ticking.

I'm curious, what is your current plan given your age and location?
 

metalwater

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interesting thread.

Dream, if today some woman just by chance connected with you and it was the perfect one for you would you go ahead and stay in the US and have a family in the US?

What is the longest LTR you have had so far?

Things to check on about your target country.
-Gini coefficient
-the percentage of single moms
-life span
Check those things vs the US and other countries. If those things are similar then the undercurrent of the social fabric will be similar. If you have money already from the US then you will be dropping into the new place in a higher position due to the money. That affects where and how you live and also how you feel about your security and that affects how you behave and that affects how you feel about yourself and that affects how women feel about you.

Male/Female interactions are similar for all humans. If because of who and what you are, you are stronger than those around you, you will do well. Going to a new place can be a very good solution, if it doesn't work out you can try another one. I view this the same as doing business. Most of us have failed several times before hitting on something that works and works well. Part of that is the learning experience of the failures. If things don't work out in one place take your knowledge and experiences and try again.
 

roaming shark

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Good luck and respect for taking action. But just remember the world is small and women don’t really change fundamentally. Likely you are going to face new challenges over there that will be just as difficult. I moved out of a small town 2 months to a major metro in US. It’s not perfect of course, but I just mass approach and have had some decent success. You made some valid points about the culture in the US. EE will be interesting for sure. Again, respect for taking real action.
 
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