Troop Alert: Dr. Phil EXPOSES well known Seduction Gurus today (04/11/08)!

[##17]

It's a waste of time to debate with women what is acceptable for a guy to do for self-improvement. A guy should just do what he has to do.

I get what the women are saying in one aspect: A woman wants to be attracted to YOU, a real person, as opposed to a Mystery clone or an RJ clone or a bot of whomever else's personality you can download off the Internet for $99.95. So become a guy who is compelling to women, simple as that. And what you do to become that guy isn't really anyone's business but your own.

 

[Mr. Me]

And ladies, please, do keep being yourselves (so we guys can easily weed out the bad ones) - and keep wearing those push up bras.

 

[MotownMack]

As far as what "The Mainstream Media" says, it is what it is. It's the Voice of A Million iqqi's, so don't take it too seriously. They'll never come around to see the point of the Men's Movement, so why worry about something that isn't going to happen?

And you know what I say? Let them squabble about what's right or wrong, whether men think with their d!cks, blah blah blah. I don't care. I am not here for a societal dissertation on the moral high ground, or their interpretations of the realties guys face every day. They don't have a clue, and they have proven inept at advising us what they're really looking for vs what they actually go far. So, please, someone tell me why I should care about what a bunch of day time tv watching women think about what goes on in the real world? Because at the moment, I don't and I don't think it effects us in the least.

I don't, however, believe this will be quite the lynching some will expect it to be. Have any you ever had a rational discussion with women about the methods we use and the things we talk about her? Aside from the more macho stuff on being a man, etc-which all women are conditioned by society to reject on a conscious level these days- I have found most of them quite agreeable to the methods being used and saying things like "Yes, I could see that working" or "yeah, I'd probably be attracted to a guy who did that."

The initial reaction to hearing about the subject is usually an eye roll from the average girl (and sometimes from the guys). But when you actually discuss the finer details (which I assume they will do on the show) is a lot more tame and agreeable from the females I've talked to - where the vast majority admit that this the way they would like to be approach. And at the very least, they appreciate it's merit.

 

[DJDamage]

Dr Phil has manipulated the viewers once again in the end. That was a terrible show but Mystery and Ross Jeffries both got some exposure and will get new subscribers as a result.

Everybody is happy.

 

[Mistic]

Yo Mistic,


Good point. And yeah, simple revelation of the mechanics or inner workings of something doesn't necessarily change our OPINION of it.

Which is why it's amazing to me sometimes WHY some people (women AND MEN) often react dismissively or with disdain whenever they hear about men seeking help bettering themselves so they can be better at attracting and KEEPING women.

I think that that is usually a reaction born out of a condescending attitude AT WORST, or a proud ignorance AT BEST.

Dr. Phil isn't ALWAYS wrong, though. And STR8up may be right: Perhaps he WON'T totally sell us out this time. That would be GREAT. But we'll see...

Also, back to MISTIC's point. Again, knowing what the other person likes and then catering to it in such a way that it BOOSTS your attractiveness to them, REALLY should be thought of as a good thing-----especially if the motives are not negatively manipulative or malicious.

For instance:

Suppose talk show hosts like Michael Baisden or Tom Leykis had a show where they "exposed" that there was a school that taught women how to stay in great shape, learn what pleases a man, and then tailor their interactions with him so that he would be more attracted to them than he would be the "average" woman-----but NOT neccessarily with a malicious intent behind it?

I'm betting that MOST guys wouldn't mind it AT ALL. But it's like STR8up pointed out...maybe the point of contention lies within how each sex interprets the ultimate underlying, motivations of the other.

Hmmm....Kind of points out just how important exercising your individualized gift of DISCERNMENT really is, doesn't it?

March on.

There is always something from the community being exposed, and I have always maintained that this poses little threat. Thanks for going a little more into depth about it.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Women LOVE to pigeonhole men. Typical default mentality.

This default response is nothing more than social reinforcement for the "Feminine Mystique." Women MUST be unknowable and confounding for men, and anything that even brush the surface of trying to explain their gender is ridiculed, marginalized and demonized. The converse of this is what you're describing STR8; in contrast, men MUST be eminently knowable, simple and in need of the feminine to correct them. Men=simple, Women=complex and the more men even attempting to understand that complexity only need feminine correction that much more. That, in a nutshell, IS the Feminine Mystique, and Dr. Phil, like most AFCs, only reinforces it more for being male and complying with it.


And yes, Ross Jefferies is a chode.

 

[ketostix]

I don't, however, believe this will be quite the lynching some will expect it to be. Have any you ever had a rational discussion with women about the methods we use and the things we talk about her? Aside from the more macho stuff on being a man, etc-which all women are conditioned by society to reject on a conscious level these days- I have found most of them quite agreeable to the methods being used and saying things like "Yes, I could see that working" or "yeah, I'd probably be attracted to a guy who did that."

The initial reaction to hearing about the subject is usually an eye roll from the average girl (and sometimes from the guys). But when you actually discuss the finer details (which I assume they will do on the show) is a lot more tame and agreeable from the females I've talked to - where the vast majority admit that this the way they would like to be approach. And at the very least, they appreciate it's merit.

Yeah women will believe and agree with anything as long as you present it in the right way.

 

[STR8UP]

Hey buddy I just noticed you're back on board.

Not really. I read some of the posts from time to time, but to be honest I don't have any desire to be as active on here as I used to be. It's working out better for everyone

 

[Poonani Maker]

I'm watching it right now, and see Dr. Phil is so far, being fair with us guys. For instance, he mentions how women are "taught" to get a push-up bra and how to apply their make-up. Also, the club/bar girls on the show seem to be your typical stuck up b1tch you see in a bar. They say, "The guys who approach me are always the ones I don't want to be approached by. It's rude."

 

[ketostix]

Not really. I read some of the posts from time to time, but to be honest I don't have any desire to be as active on here as I used to be. It's working out better for everyone

Yeah it's probably better for you and a few others, but I liked reading your posts. I think you could still chime in at least from time to time. What did you think of my recent x factor post if anything?

 

[penkitten]

no worries, he's just jealous!

 

[Phyzzle]

That whole show was Ross Jeffries bickering with Mystery Method guys about their respective commercial packages. I don't think it was any kind of hit piece by Dr. Phil.

 

[KarmaSutra]

RJ really came off as a bitter guy who feels left behind.

The "Father" of seduction? I'll give the guy props for what he brought to the table but him being the be all to end all in seduction theory and mechanics? I think not.

 

[Luthor Rex]

As far as what "The Mainstream Media" says, it is what it is. It's the Voice of A Million iqqi's

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[KontrollerX]

"As far as what "The Mainstream Media" says, it is what it is. It's the Voice of A Million iqqi's"

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[DJDamage]

RJ really came off as a bitter guy who feels left behind.

The "Father" of seduction? I'll give the guy props for what he brought to the table but him being the be all to end all in seduction theory and mechanics? I think not.

RJ is an old man that came in at the wrong time. Only when the internet became a big thing that's when guru's started to make serious money and the competition became stiff. Mystery just made things better and easier to learn and packaged it to the masses. The fact is that everyone stoled something from someone and marketed as their own.

What is sosuave then?! where is Allen fits into all this?! I think sosuave is basically a rouge disenchanted entity that broke away from the seduction community at large and became more then just seduction but a way of life.

 

[Latinoman]

I'm watching it right now, and see Dr. Phil is so far, being fair with us guys. For instance, he mentions how women are "taught" to get a push-up bra and how to apply their make-up. Also, the club/bar girls on the show seem to be your typical stuck up b1tch you see in a bar. They say, "The guys who approach me are always the ones I don't want to be approached by. It's rude."

To which I would have told her (IF I was one of the guys in the show)..."Well, those same guys you don't want to be approach by today...you will DIE for 3 years from now, when your shelf value will go down hill."

 

[Mistic]

To which I would have told her (IF I was one of the guys in the show)..."Well, those same guys you don't want to be approach by today...you will DIE for 3 years from now, when your shelf value will go down hill."

How ya like dem nuts :crackup: :rockon:

 

[Ricky]

RJ is an old man that came in at the wrong time. Only when the internet became a big thing that's when guru's started to make serious money and the competition became stiff. Mystery just made things better and easier to learn and packaged it to the masses. The fact is that everyone stoled something from someone and marketed as their own.

What is sosuave then?! where is Allen fits into all this?! I think sosuave is basically a rouge disenchanted entity that broke away from the seduction community at large and became more then just seduction but a way of life.

Actually you should give Ross a chance. In fact he was there in the early stages of the internet. I found out about him in 1996 from a link on a porn site.

He has certainly made his millions and I would actually like to know who made more money Ross or Mystery to date. I would have to guess Ross if anything because he's been doing it for longer.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Okay...I finally got a chance to watch the show, and here's my assessment:

1. Dr. Phil actually WAS pretty evenhanded in his presentation of what the community has to offer. And he maintained his "fairness" throughout most of the show until the very end (as DJDAMAGE already stated). But I'll tell ya', I WAS pleasantly surprised he "held up" as long as he did------before he eventually went out on us like a bad knee...:crackup:

2. I actually liked Ross Jeffries when he first came out back in the late eighties and early nineties----probably BECAUSE he was the first person I can remember really trying to tell it like it is for the most part. I never got into the NLP stuff, but I did find his take on male/female relationships to be revolutionary on a particular episode of the SALLY JESSE RAPHAEL show-----anybody remember that?

3. The Mystery Method guys were TRUE salesmen, and they had Dr. Phil AND at least half of the women in the crowd almost "on board" with the program UNTIL Ross came out and began his pathetic and hard to watch "Biitch and Moan" session. Now I will say, that the MM guys WERE being disingeniuous about what the MEAT of their program is all about, though. I may be misinformed but I personally have never heard of the "FULL CLOSE" concept that they talked about----but I HAVE heard of the "FUKK CLOSE" concept that they DIDN'T talk about.

But I don't think Ross Jeffries is the guy with clean enough hands to accuse THEM of being dirty though. I was almost embarrassed FOR him when he had to keep explaining that his more straight-forward, four-letter word, marketing material was REALLY just a ploy to generate more sales----but was NOT what his Speed Seduction program is really about.

It was a bit like the "Apology Tour" that Mackdaddy, Playa-Playa, Assed BILL CLINTON went on after the press held his feet to the fire over the Monica BLEWinsky scandal.

But all in all, I think the show was pretty evenhanded, and Dr. Phil was fair "enough", but the second he noticed that the women were getting turned off by the bickering between RJ and the MM guys, Dr. Phil IMMEDIATELY transformed back into his familiar Captain save a "HOE" personality for the last 5 minutes of the show-----and he simultaneously developed COMPLETE amnesia that he'd just been Captain save a "BRO" all during the first 55 minutes of the show.