Trayvon Martin discussion

[user43770]

Thank you mr jaylan and now the jury be prepared to listen at the defence.

What's your point - are you going to arrest the guy for following the kid? Good luck.

 

[Who Dares Win]

What's your point - are you going to arrest the guy for following the kid? Good luck.

My point is that the guy to which I replied, seemed to know everything so well and so detailed and with so much certainity that his post looked like the final speech of the accuse.
He probably should lead the investigation...no different than street trials

 

[d!ckmojo]

Self defence is self defence, fools. If you were in that situation, and some teen tough guy wanna-be attacked you, what would you do? Sure, Bible belt is 100% right, Zimmerman should have been a man and known some martial arts to deal with the situation professionally, but at the end of the day, guns are legal in America for a reason, i.e. to be used for self defense when/if the need unfortunately arises.

Its got nothing to do with race, and so you hyperventilating clowns ought to cool it with the bull$hit attempts to twist this into a racial issue. Its a case of an adult man being attacked by a c0cky adolescent teen and defending himself with lethal force.

Exact same situation happened to a kid in my highschool when I was a teenager. My classmate tried to attack a grown man with a lump of 4x2, the man shot him stone dead with a rifle, cops didn't arrest him, it was self-defense man.

It sounds to me like you guys want to make it illegal to defend yourself from an attacker if that attacker happens to be black. F*ck you man, I will defend myself from any motherf*cker who wants to step to this, and if the assailant is black, makes no f*cking difference, and everyone should have that right.

 

[Jaylan]

Of course he could defend himself. The problem is that the kid allegedly escaped the guy only to later attack him from behind. Judging from the huge gash on the back of the guy's head, I'm inclined to believe him. Once that happened, the kid became the aggressor. Zimmerman should have used better judgement, but the shooting seems to have been in self-defense, which means he's not a murderer. And I was under the impression that the guy was arrested and later released.

Of course thats the self defense story Zimmerman whipped up since hes the only one who can say he was attacked first because the only other witness for the beginning of the scuffle is dead. Id take his testimony with a huge grain of salt.

And he was never arrested. He was detained. Thats two different things. The PD botched the investigation and seem to be giving this guy yet another pass for breaking the law....well that was the case until the Florida state DA got involved.

Self defence is self defence, fools. If you were in that situation, and some teen tough guy wanna-be attacked you, what would you do? Sure, Bible belt is 100% right, Zimmerman should have been a man and known some martial arts to deal with the situation professionally, but at the end of the day, guns are legal in America for a reason, i.e. to be used for self defense when/if the need unfortunately arises.

Um, the kid was minding his own business when Zimmerman started stalking him. Many think Martin was in fact acting in self defense. And the only person who can attest to the story of Martin attacking first is Zimmerman, and his testimony must be taken with a grain of salt since hes trying to avoid jail time obviously.

Its got nothing to do with race, and so you hyperventilating clowns ought to cool it with the bull$hit attempts to twist this into a racial issue. Its a case of an adult man being attacked by a c0cky adolescent teen and defending himself with lethal force.

Riiiiight. Nothing to do with race Thats why Zimmerman said (what sound to many people) "fvking c00ns" on the 911 tape right? And thats why Zimmerman has called 911 about suspicious black males in the past right? He even phoned the PD about a 7to9 year old little black boy.

But we are all supposed to believe this had nothing to do with race? Look up the developing story on the killing of Kenneth Chamberlain by racist NY cops...then tell me race doesnt factor into crimes and police investigations. =/

What proof do you have that Martin was being uppity and ****y? All the facts we know say the kid was minding his business and walking home until Zimmerman started this whole mess.

Exact same situation happened to a kid in my highschool when I was a teenager. My classmate tried to attack a grown man with a lump of 4x2, the man shot him stone dead with a rifle, cops didn't arrest him, it was self-defense man.

Two different stories, with different details. Martin was minding his own business and was on his way home. Stop adding in your own made up facts into this case. I guess youre just going to ignore the 911 tapes where its a known fact that Zimmerman was chasing this kid huh? The kid dies and all of a sudden Zimmerman wants to tell us the kid attacked him on his way back to his vehicle? riiiight He was following the kid in his car, then chasing him on foot, used a racial slur on the 911 tapes, and all of a sudden we are all supposed to believe this guy when he tells us the kid attacked him when he finally decided to leave him alone and mind his business? Ok whatever you say boss

It sounds to me like you guys want to make it illegal to defend yourself from an attacker if that attacker happens to be black. F*ck you man, I will defend myself from any motherf*cker who wants to step to this, and if the assailant is black, makes no f*cking difference, and everyone should have that right.

Martin had every right to defend himself from a strange man who was stalking him as well. I dont see how you are so blind to that and willing to take the word of a guy whos had prior arrests swept under the rug, profiles people, uses racial epithets, and chases down citizens who were doing nothing wrong.

Yeah, sure, Zimmerman is really credible especially when hes trying to stay outta jail. Where are those injuries that he kept telling everyone he sustained? Wheres the hospital reports? I dont buy his bull in the least.

 

[user43770]

It sounded to me like he said "fvcking punks." Nothing racist about that. We'll see how the investigation plays out.

Edit - And what does that NY case have to do with this one? Are all white people racists now?

Edit 2 - I don't see what's so racist about that Chamberlain case. There were black cops present, too.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

He clearly said "c00ns". Get a hearing aid.

 

[user43770]

He clearly said "c00ns". Get a hearing aid.

It isn't clear at all. It seems to me that there are a lot of people who want to hear coons (i.e. people who benefit from playing the race card), but I'm just not buying it.

 

[backbreaker]

as you know i'm African american, at least partially. i have about the same completion as the kid that was shot maybe a tad lighter.

As a kid his age, I've done, much worse, not as in illegal but just as in suspicious things and thought nothing of it. i like to run wind sprints 2 or so times a week in the morning before i go to the gym or sometimes when the sun goes down and it's not too hot. if it's cold outside like it is in feb i will wear my Arkansas razorback hoodie with my gym shorts until i get warmed up enough.

I live in a predominately white neighborhood. in fact i have never seen another black person in this neighborhood honesty. what if i run into someone i have never seen before and he thinks I'm up to no good because i have on a hoodie and i am walking down the street at night (while exercising) and I have muscles lol at least a few.


When i was 17 years old i Lived about what.. i will ball park it at 3 miles from a pretty big high school (that i did not go to, but it was a big high school, JA Fair in little rock). the parking was so bad at football games m end my friends would just park at my house and walk to the stadium. that was a predominately white neighborhood. it was a nice 15 to 20 minute walk but was still better than trying to get out of there if you parked. in fact the subdivision at that time was not 3 years old we were one of the first people move there. i hate to think some guy might think me and my 2 (black) best friends were up to no good.. and and good lord my attire as a 17 year old was straight out of a rap video. just trying to get home to get to sleep to get to basketeball pratcie in the morning.


i remember one time in particular and i though about this the first time i heard this case.. i was dating a girl who lived in, a predominatly white neighborhood. this was about the time i started going through my push the boundaries with my parents stage, i was 17 at the time, started having sex with girls. she would ask me to come over her house when her parents were alseep, so i would wait until my mom was sleep and sneak out th ewindow, lol, roll my car (gotta love stick shifts lol) out the drive way and driv eto her house, p9ark my car about a block from her house, run through her grass, run to the BACK of the house and she would let me in through her back window as her room was in the back of her house. i did that at least 10 times. sometimes we would get so bold we ewould sneak out of her house and drive to her best friends house and both sneak through HER window lol. this was actually my future oneitis.

the worst thing that ever happened to me was i had a little parking ticket thingy on my windshield one day for having my car parked at the stop sign.

i can only imagine what someone would have thought had they saw me. maybe wasn't being a choir boy but i wasn't commenting a crime. i wasn't doing anything that kids don't do everyday. that's part of growing up.

I'm not trying to condemn the Zimmerman dude just yet. i'm a pretty rational dude even though i think he should be locked up until they decide if they want to go ahead with him or not, i have no real issue with them waiting and finding out the facts of the case first. i'm sure that justice, either way will prevail.

but this black kid walking down the street in a nice place with a hoodie thing... this type of talk i can't stomach that. we should be past that as a society. i should be able to walk outside of my house, of my dad's house, my wife's brother's house, my mom's house wearing what i damn well please and feel safe. my son, who although mixed looks more black than white, he's a few shades lighter than me with his mom's facial features, about the same completion as say. Tyson Chandler. shoudl be able to walk down the street wearing what he damn well pleases when he gets older. I have the right to wear red timbs, fat albert jeans, a white tee shirt and a red and black chicago bulls hate tilted to the side, just as much as the as a KKK member has the right to walk around with a white sheet over him.

I don't have to like it, i don't have to feel comfortable with it, but that does mean he can't do it. yoiu just can't shoot people who look like you don't think they should look

not even that long ago, my mom owed me like 100 dollars when i was in little rock and she to me she would give it to me but she had to leave right then and i could not get there and time so she told me she would put it in her BBQ grill in the back yard. so i pull up to her back yard, get out the car go to the back yard and her neighbor is looking at me and i say "javita (my mom) is my mom she left something for me back here" and he was like 'oh okay". that's how normal people react. i would be suspicious of anyone going to anyone else's back yard. but... there are things have to do more than look suspicious before normal people just start going gung ho on people. just because ei think something looks wrong doesn't mean it is.

 

[Jaylan]

It sounded to me like he said "fvcking punks." Nothing racist about that. We'll see how the investigation plays out.

Find a cleaned up version of the audio. Its plain as day what he said. Either way, once audio engineers really clean up the recording for court, a lot of deniers will have egg on their face.

Edit - And what does that NY case have to do with this one? Are all white people racists now?

The point of sharing the NY case was to highlight that police corruption and faulty investigations exist. The point was to show that race can definitely play a role where law enforcement is involved and that when the police goof, that crap may be covered up. The point was also to show that DA offices are sometimes more about serving the PD instead of serving the people.

Edit 2 - I don't see what's so racist about that Chamberlain case. There were black cops present, too.

Oh riiiight....so just because black cops are present, you can kill a black man, use racial slurs against him that are recorded on his medical device, and the incident is magically not racist...ok

You do know some people can hate their own race or be indifferent to the treatment of their people, right? You do know that some black and latino cops have been found to be corrupt and have racially profiled their own people in the past, right?

Saying "oh but black cops were there so it cant be racist" is the same thing as a racist saying some off the wall stuff and then trying to defend it with the "but I have black friends" argument.

Get real

 

[user43770]

Oh riiiight....so just because black cops are present, you can kill a black man, use racial slurs against him that are recorded on his medical device, and the incident is magically not racist...ok

You do know some people can hate their own race or be indifferent to the treatment of their people, right? You do know that some black and latino cops have been found to be corrupt and have racially profiled their own people in the past, right?

Saying "oh but black cops were there so it cant be racist" is the same thing as a racist saying some off the wall stuff and then trying to defend it with the "but I have black friends" argument.

Get real

I was implying that maybe one of the black cops said it. Is that racist? Black people use it all the time.

 

[Jaylan]

I was implying that maybe one of the black cops said it. Is that racist? Black people use it all the time.

The video does not indicate this, but even if this was so, using a racial term while you are assaulting someone is racist.

And people need to quit the weak ass argument that "black people do it too" Some black people dont use that word, and those who do use it, use it in a non-hateful context. And then theres also pronunciation. Ive heard people say the word to be hateful, and its spelled and pronounced differently than it would be in a friendly context.

My whole point? What someone and their friends call themselves in a positive manner, does not mean others can call them the same thing in a hateful manner and it not be bigoted.

I have an ex coworker whos gay. Hes a cool kid, but from time to time he will call someone a faggot when they act stupid. He uses the word the same way straight guys do. Just because he uses the word from time to time when hes pissed off, does not mean someone can assault him and berate him by calling him a faggot, and not be considered bigoted.

Another example...Jeremy Lin, Asian American rising star of the NY Knicks...on his old online jounral Xanga page, his username is ChinkBalla88. Now because he used that name in a non disparaging way to refer to himself, does that make it ok for a racist to use the word hatefully against him if he were assaulted?

Lets be real here. Context and intent matter a lot. Women will call their best friends bittches and think nothing of it, if they are indeed using the word in a positive context....but if any man or woman uses the term to refer to them in a negative manner, its a totally different story.

You get my point now? People need to stop trying to absolve the haters of wrong doing by pointing out some behavior of the victim as if it justifies the crime. Especially when the victims behavior was not related to the crime, nor was their behavior outright negative towards someone else.

 

[user43770]

I don't need you to teach me about context. And how do you know the context in which it was used? Seems to me that you're just speculating.

 

[Jaylan]

I don't need you to teach me about context. And how do you know the context in which it was used? Seems to me that you're just speculating.

Wow...really? Because the victims sons and lawyers heard the context in which it was used.

Who the hell uses racial slurs in a positive context during an altercation with police? The police nor the victim sure arent going to do that...so lets be serious here.

Stop being willfully ignorant to what happened here.

 

[user43770]

Stop being willfully ignorant to what happened here.

I didn't witness the incident, dude. What do you expect? I've witnessed plenty of false accusations of racism in my lifetime, so I like to get all of the facts before I brand somebody a racist.

 

[Warrior74]

Hey Tyte 'EyEz my personal opinion is that this case is ALL about emotion. Blacks and whites feel very strongly about this tragedy, so you're dam right that I'm emotional.

The "stand your ground" law, in my opinion, is a stupid back-azzed piece of legislation. This law was enacted just a few years ago yet reminds me of what the wild west must have been like. the law needs to be repealed. A nation this out of control with fear doesn't need the law justifying folks. Killing each other. You murder somebody? You go to jail and await a trial by jury. Fvucking crazy to me that people seem to think it's OK to kill somebody and then claim delf defense yet never be arrested for it. LOL.

Yah this case is all emotion. Out was outraged at first that zimmerman wasn't arrested but then I had to realize that I didn't know all of the facts. It seems that everyday there were new facts, twists and turns. I decided that like conspriacy theories and presidential elections, I can't do **** about it so I stopped caring. But here's the thing.

A few years ago a couple of guys, the same race as me, tried to rob me late at night. My daughter was in the house sleeping. I drew my weapon and they backed down. My state is a stand your ground state. I didn't want to kill those guys, but one was coming around my side and the other was reaching in his coat. There had been a string of home invasions in the area. I felt my life was in danger and if either one of them would have made another move towards me, I would have shot both of them. I don't care what race they were, they put me in fear of what would happen to me and to my kid. That's what the law is for. Just some food for thought.

 

[Quiksilver]

Hey Tyte 'EyEz my personal opinion is that this case is ALL about emotion. Blacks and whites feel very strongly about this tragedy, so you're dam right that I'm emotional.

The "stand your ground" law, in my opinion, is a stupid back-azzed piece of legislation. This law was enacted just a few years ago yet reminds me of what the wild west must have been like. the law needs to be repealed. A nation this out of control with fear doesn't need the law justifying folks. Killing each other. You murder somebody? You go to jail and await a trial by jury. Fvucking crazy to me that people seem to think it's OK to kill somebody and then claim delf defense yet never be arrested for it. LOL.

Self-defense bro.

I don't really have an opinion on this case since there's a lot of b.s. on both sides.

I think if someone jumps you on the street and you think you (or anyone near you) will be a victim, then blowing a few holes in the perpetrators chest is perfectly justified if they don't respond to the first verbal command.

Personally I'll believe the officers (plural) who were on the scene first, until evidence comes forward which legitimately undermines their testimony.

 

[Quiksilver]

And sorry if I don't "man up" and fight someone with my fists/martial arts skills.

Most of my hobbies are intellectual pursuits and my career is not a violent one.

If someone mugs me on the street, they are a complete unknown quantity so I have to assume the worst. I have to assume that they have a weapon on them or that they have some street fighting skills, or both. I have to assume they are more prepared than me for violence, and more experienced at doing violence as well.

Self-defense isn't a game or sport.

 

[Quiksilver]

If Zimmerman had trained about an hour of jiu-jitsu, he would have learned enough so that a 16 year-old kid couldn't just jump on him and beat his ass. Then Trayvon would still be alive.

I believe that guns should be legal. I also believe that able-bodied men have no business carrying them around. It's different if you're someone who is not capable of fighting back, like a little old lady or someone who is physically handicapped. Otherwise, you have to learn how to handle yourself in open-handed combat. Using a gun as an excuse to be a typical fat, out-of-shape American who won't do anything physical like train in martial arts will only get you into trouble and tragedies, which is exactly what happened to Zimmerman.

What if I'm out walking with my niece/nephew/son/daughter? I'm responsible for their safety, am I not?

Two guys jump out of a van in ski masks, and according to you I have no business carrying an effective tool to defend myself and my dependents with?

What if I'm attending college, learning two languages, going to the gym to stay in shape and working two jobs to pay my way. According to you since I'm an able-bodied man with a healthy diet that if I get mugged I should not be allowed to use an effective self-defense tool?

If someone mugs me on the street and I dont feel safe turning my back and running away (or i have someone with me), I'm going to end that threat as quickly as possible.

And the LAST thing I want to do is get close to the aggressors.

Cudos to you for being "man" enough to grapple with your attacker(s), but I'll be the one standing back 15 feet away (and backing up further) putting holes in their torso.

-----

If we're not like Bible_Belt and train martial arts regularly for years, then we don't deserve to defend ourselves...

Nice narcissistic logic there.

 

[Quiksilver]

I don't fear black mean. I fear thugs. If I pull up to a gas station with my family, and there are some thugs loitering, either I drive away or my hand is on my pistol. Sorry, I've been in that situation a time or two.


In my opinion, I'd rather live in a somewhat safe neighborhood and deal with HOA or PTA drama than have to routinely go to the gas stations I mentioned above.


Maybe some, but the problem is that good people want to exclude CRIME. If you look like a criminal/thug/etc., you will get treated like one. It's very simple. I don't know who made the dress code, but I do know the dress code. If you embody the stereotype, reality says it'll be reflected on you.

We all want to live in peace in harmony? Well, let's do it. But don't ignore reality. Reality says that people are different, alot different. That's why I don't understand why skin color gets so much play. I don't like fake people...does that make me a fak-cial bigot or something???? Come on folks, acknowledge that black people, hispanic people, white people, etc. are all different, but at the end of the day, we're still PEOPLE.

I don't care how I get treated for dressing whatever way I want, as long as no one violates the law against me.

I've been out jogging at night up at my mums place, my jogging clothes are dark color. In her neighborhood, some of the men drive around sporadically and take note of unusual things. I've been followed a few times by guys in their car while I'm jogging along the street.

Are they stalking me?

I don't know. I guess here its unusual for people to be out at night jogging.

Did I care? No, they can waste their time creeping along behind me all they like.

They can talk to me as well, and I'll answer if I want or I won't answer if I don't want.

If they lay a hand on me though (out of suspicion or whatever), I'll give them one verbal command to back off before I treat their behavior as a threat to my safety and defend myself.

If I am jogging on a sidewalk after dark, I am not breaking any law but my behavior is contrary to the culture in the area (bed early).

edit: everyone recognizes me up there now, so I don't get followed anymore when I'm out jogging/walking.

 

[Bible_Belt]

What if I'm out walking with my niece/nephew/son/daughter? I'm responsible for their safety, am I not?

Two guys jump out of a van in ski masks, and according to you I have no business carrying an effective tool to defend myself and my dependents with?

What if I'm attending college, learning two languages, going to the gym to stay in shape and working two jobs to pay my way. According to you since I'm an able-bodied man with a healthy diet that if I get mugged I should not be allowed to use an effective self-defense tool?

If someone mugs me on the street and I dont feel safe turning my back and running away (or i have someone with me), I'm going to end that threat as quickly as possible.

And the LAST thing I want to do is get close to the aggressors.

Cudos to you for being "man" enough to grapple with your attacker(s), but I'll be the one standing back 15 feet away (and backing up further) putting holes in their torso.

-----

If we're not like Bible_Belt and train martial arts regularly for years, then we don't deserve to defend ourselves...

Nice narcissistic logic there.

How much defense against a firearm have you trained? You really have no business carrying a lethal weapon around if it's just going to get taken away from you and used against the people you're trying to protect. It makes everyone less safe because you have a gun, not more safe.

The real problem with the Trayvon case is Florida's law. The right of self-defense dates back to merry old England. But the rule has always been that you're only allowed to respond with equal or lesser force. When a guy raised his fist to throw a punch, you couldn't blow him away with a gun. Florida's law basically says that you get to shoot anyone who yells at you. It's a dramatic change from the past 500 years of self-defense law.