too much calling at beginning of dating can ruin your propspects?

[drift king]

i was suppose see this HB today for a 2nd date and we agreed to meet up yesterday although it was done in a long winded sort of way.

anyway i call this morning to find out what time i should meet her exactly but she didn't answer so i left a voicemail just inquiring what time she was ready.

i was feeling impatient and i called her from my other phone half an hour later to which she did not answer either, but then about 15mins later i get a call back from her on that number but not my one she has.. :-s

that's bad sign that she's dodging my call, i decided to call back anyway from the number she doesn't have and she answered but didn't know it was me at 1st, then i went into whole convo about how she didn't come up and she was saying she was ill and just leaving the house..

i knew this looked a bit iffy on my part like why am i calling from a different number etc etc.. so i just explained my other phone was in the charger.

anyway i tried to make up for it with some banter but she wasn't having any of it seemed a little annoyed too and said i called her at a bad time as she was just leaving to go to the bank and she'd call me later.. i go 'so i guess if you're ill we're not meeting up today then?' i expected her to say 'yeah probably not' but surprisingly she said 'i dont know yet i'll let u know later'

i guess that's the same thing as a no but i was surprised she didn't tell me flat out probably not. anyway she sounded annoyed so i just said goodbye, and that's it.

i guess i'll have to next her? i mean just because she's really attracted to me physically that isn't going to compensate for my weak game moves with the phone.. i presume looking impatient is enough to completely turn her off?

her saying 'i dont know i'll let you know later' as oppose to 'probably not' makes absolute no difference right as in im reading too much into the fact she's going to cancel and she has a plausible excuse of being ill?

my question is how many mistakes can you make realistically when you're just getting to know someone for them to be turned off by you? in the past day i've come across as impatient and possibly annoying. i doubt she'd forgive those things and i'll be very surprised if she's going to call later.

 

[Prod]

You only need to make one mistake. The one thing girls universally say they're not attracted to is creepy guys, which translated to needy and annoying AFC's.

What you did wasn't just weak game.It was pretty much annoying and needy (creepy), live and learn. She doesn't sound like a keeper anyway.

 

[brian123]

I've done similar things in the past. Live and learn. Wait a while to call. Once you do, you leave the message and then leave it up to her to contact you.

 

[drift king]

my problem is i already have issues with anxiety and impatience and uncertainty outside of women so situations like this frustrate me..

she was really into me physically which im hoping is enough for her to somewhat still give me a chance, i know if i get another opportunity to meet her i'll get her easily but on the phone and in between dates is when i'm weak.

i did everything right at first i waited 2 days before calling but it's the whole 2nd date closing and making specific times/plans without her BS excuses..

is something like this enough to ruin it all despite her being really into me physically?

 

[true romance]

Guys

Some chicks showing a little interest and you guys are jumping up and down.
Stay calm..the attitute here is that you guys put to much expectation on the call to set up a date. You are nervous, anxiety..etc which could happen to anyone. Chick can smell desperation with your voice, lack of planning and decision. (Pete010 thread)

I think in sosuave.com has a section for telephone call set up.

1) Have a mental attitute of carefree, no expectation. Relax
2) be in a good mood to call, listen to music to pump up
3)write down few bullet points what you want to say ( date, location, alternative...)
4) Be short on the call 3-5 min max. The longer you stay the more ****up will be
5) Smile on the phone, she will feel it on the other side..
6) spinning plate is key so you don't feel desperate. Girls usually test you first by refusing the date, some time you have to pursue harder but not with stalker attitute.. DJ attitude..call back in few days to set up again.

 

[drift king]

where in sosuave.com is the section on telephone call set up, do you have the link?

thanks

is the 1-6 you've listed out for 1st date or 2nd date?

im wondering about 2nd date setting up cos i run into trouble a lot. have no problems setting up first date though.

 

[true romance]

for 2nd date, I usually collect lots of information from first date. I assume you already find out what she likes (hobbies, favourite resto, actors..ect).

Use these clues as to set up 2nd date

example:
-Hey there is a new band coming in town or
-my friend just recommend a good bar/lounge I'm going there to check it and I like you to join me..etc
-there is a latin club I want to check out for free lesson ..etc

You catch my drift ? no punt intended

stay short on phone, she say yes, confirm the date and time and hang up.

if she say no and no counter offer, just say bye. Do not offer alternative date or begging like Pete010.

Do something else for few days, no contact.

---
for telephone call I think is on bristollair.com..not on sosuave.com..

 

[drift king]

i see.. but what if it's not a no and it's a 'i'll let you know tomorrow/later' sort of answer?

which is kind of a yes and no in one.. like if i don't do what i have planned later on today then ok, even today trying to make arrangements is a pain.

when i spoke to her this morning, she said she's ill and i could hear the annoyance in her voice, i said straight out so we're not meeting cos you're ill, she didn't say no she gave me a 'dont know yet i'll let u know later' which i guess is as good as a no?

how do u deal with the back and forths when trying to arrange cos u get the feeling they're trying to not look too keen as well but that in turn shows u up trying to do the same and puts the pressure on?

like i dont even know what i could have said earlier today cos she was leaving to go out, i called from a different number and i was somewhat disturbing her.. it feels like the interest is gone. obviously it shouldn't be a 'if im not doing anything then ok lets meet up..' esp how like it was on friday where we were anything but LJBF'd material. now it feels like im getting treated like LJBF material.

it almost does feel like begging to be honest.. it's just u don't have time to think when you're put on the spot. i mean like they say spin more plates, she's not giving me a straight answer so i set up another date with another girl i called yesterday for this afternoon but i still can't help thinking about the one who i was suppose to see cos she's way hotter.

i guess a girl will only put up with so much annoyance if shes physically into you?

if you get to the stage of almost begging or like what i did made myself look too available after a 1st date (even if it went really well) is it just game over or is it literally wait a week and start over building rapport on the phone?

i feel like she'd still answer my calls (hopefully) next week so a 10 min quick convo making her laugh then try to seal the deal. i just feel like they always give me the 'i'll let u know answer' and when i try to say 'well give me a yes or no now otherwise i'll make other plans' they call me out for being too pushy?? so i can't win! it's like they're acting indecisive and i try to say choose another day u can definitely do and we'll do that.

 

[Igetit!]

Yes. That's the answer to your question. Women are emotional creatures,you know this. Even afcs know that. You keep saying that because she was into you physically,this should be able to overcome any potential emotional problems that you caused by calling too much. This is highly unlikely. You are making the mistake that I used to make over and over and over again. You're being narcissistic. You are assuming that the way you think,feel,and would react to a specific situation is the same way this girl and probably women in general would react to the same situation. Let me tell you another thing I just recently learned about women. Have you ever heard of the saying,"a notch on my belt"? I'm sure you have. You know,it's when a guy sleeps with a girl,and if for some reason the girl is no longer interested in him,the guy says to himself,"Well,at least I slept with her. I got her. That's another "notch on my belt". In other words,he's no longer has to date her because he already got what he wanted. Well guess what? Women also have a "notch on their belt" so to speak. And no,it's not sex. Remember,what you consider to be a "notch on the belt" is not what a woman considers to be a notch on the belt. For guys,our notch is a physical investment from a woman.
For women,it is a emotional investment from a guy. Do you get that? Their "notch" is an "EMOTIONAL INVETMENT"from a guy. Do you get what that means? If a guy get a physical investment from a woman (sex),and he can get this anytime he wants,whenever he chooses,the date becomes irrelivent. If he can sleep with her whenever he feels like it,then what's the point of a date? Likewise,if a woman already has her emotional investment from a guy(calling all the time,getting angry or upset with her after knowing her only one or 2 days),then why would she go out on a date with you? The part of you that is important to her concerning a relationship she already knows.
Women like a challenge,but by you calling all the time or getting angry or jealous,she already knows that you aren't a challenge.If you can sleep with a girl whenever you feel like it,there's no point to going out on a date,you already got what you want.If a woman already knows that you aren't a challenge,because of your constant calling,you constant trying to spend time with her,there's no point to going out with you.She already has want she wants,as far as her ego is concerned.

 

[true romance]

Stop calling her...you already set up the date and you job is done.!!!!
and she said I'll let you know : The ball is in her court..let it play out..

She is in control right now...you mood depends on her answer yes/no..

If she is interested, she will call you back..if she does not call back, you already know what it means ...

Go out and flirt with 10 other women..see batman..etc have a life.

you should have at least 2 or 3 date in case this one flakes...

go see pete0101 thread and learn from it

 

[drift king]

yeah but it's weird cos it's amazing how quickly her interest level can drop from high to low in such a short space of time.

you know what i've realised, if i have a tendency to do what i did above i should do everything by text cos at least i have time in between to think about what to say so at least im not on the spot. i know they say you should call but i dont think texting really makes that much of a difference esp if you're bad on the phone.

i realise now that i had just texted to arrange the next date, no chit chat.. then i would have had a positive result esp after such a good 1st date. thats obvoiusly too late now

but if she doesn't get back to me do i just wait a week to let the neediness she presumes about me to cool off or is once it's done it's done doesn't matter how long you wait?

 

[Don Juanabbe]

i was suppose see this HB today for a 2nd date and we agreed to meet up yesterday although it was done in a long winded sort of way.

anyway i call this morning to find out what time i should meet her exactly but she didn't answer so i left a voicemail just inquiring what time she was ready.

i was feeling impatient and i called her from my other phone half an hour later to which she did not answer either, but then about 15mins later i get a call back from her on that number but not my one she has.. :-s

that's bad sign that she's dodging my call, i decided to call back anyway from the number she doesn't have and she answered but didn't know it was me at 1st, then i went into whole convo about how she didn't come up and she was saying she was ill and just leaving the house..

i knew this looked a bit iffy on my part like why am i calling from a different number etc etc.. so i just explained my other phone was in the charger.

anyway i tried to make up for it with some banter but she wasn't having any of it seemed a little annoyed too and said i called her at a bad time as she was just leaving to go to the bank and she'd call me later.. i go 'so i guess if you're ill we're not meeting up today then?' i expected her to say 'yeah probably not' but surprisingly she said 'i dont know yet i'll let u know later'

i guess that's the same thing as a no but i was surprised she didn't tell me flat out probably not. anyway she sounded annoyed so i just said goodbye, and that's it.

i guess i'll have to next her? i mean just because she's really attracted to me physically that isn't going to compensate for my weak game moves with the phone.. i presume looking impatient is enough to completely turn her off?

her saying 'i dont know i'll let you know later' as oppose to 'probably not' makes absolute no difference right as in im reading too much into the fact she's going to cancel and she has a plausible excuse of being ill?

my question is how many mistakes can you make realistically when you're just getting to know someone for them to be turned off by you? in the past day i've come across as impatient and possibly annoying. i doubt she'd forgive those things and i'll be very surprised if she's going to call later.

Real weak. Sorry, but at least you realise where you are f(cking up. Give it some leeway for awhile.

Calling her in the morning? Leaving a message? Calling on multiple lines? You are showing neediness bigtime here. Almost stalkerish. If you think she isn't feeling you, just walk away. It's okay to call, but 2, 3 times? Then asking, "So I suppose we won't be meeting up later?" Dude, way too much.

 

[Don Juanabbe]

my problem is i already have issues with anxiety and impatience and uncertainty outside of women so situations like this frustrate me..

she was really into me physically which im hoping is enough for her to somewhat still give me a chance, i know if i get another opportunity to meet her i'll get her easily but on the phone and in between dates is when i'm weak.

i did everything right at first i waited 2 days before calling but it's the whole 2nd date closing and making specific times/plans without her BS excuses..

is something like this enough to ruin it all despite her being really into me physically?

You need to let go, friend. I used to have anxiety like that. Now I don't give a shyt. Even if I f*ck up like you have, then I just let it slide. You'd be surprised if you let it slide a bit now, it will get the gears going in that little head of hers, and she'll wonder why you're losing interest. You gotta look at this like a game, relax, and have ZERO expectations. You should approach every woman you meet like that. ZERO expectations. If it doesn't work out, move onto the next one, but leave it open in case the woman changes her mind.

Treat every b*tch like an attention hor until she proves otherwise, and then you won't invest too much of yourself in any one particular girl. Do this long enough and you'll get the hang of it.

And dude......a little advice with the 'I feel ill shyt'.....you handled it way too weak with the 'So I guess we aren't seeing each other later?'.......that's the question a WOMAN would ask.

You need to jump all over that one immediately - Ill or not Ill - you say, okay, let's do a rain check, because if you're ill, you need to take it easy. Get some rest, I hope you feel better, and I'll talk to you later at some point. Bye.

Then Hang the F*ck up.

That will really mess with her mind, because at first she'll think you're being real accommodating, but then when you pull back, she'll start to wonder why you are being so reasonable. Is he a chump, or does he actually not care? Ill or not ill, this is the right way to handle that. I doubt she's really ill though, it sounds like a shyt test, or that she was truly annoyed.

Retreat now and see how it plays out, but next time a woman says she feels ill, FALL BACK IMMEDIATELY. Be polite and accommodating and get off the phone. You'll soon now what the deal is if you play it like that.

 

[AlexTheGreat]

yeah but it's weird cos it's amazing how quickly her interest level can drop from high to low in such a short space of time.

you know what i've realised, if i have a tendency to do what i did above i should do everything by text cos at least i have time in between to think about what to say so at least im not on the spot. i know they say you should call but i dont think texting really makes that much of a difference esp if you're bad on the phone.

i realise now that i had just texted to arrange the next date, no chit chat.. then i would have had a positive result esp after such a good 1st date. thats obvoiusly too late now

but if she doesn't get back to me do i just wait a week to let the neediness she presumes about me to cool off or is once it's done it's done doesn't matter how long you wait?

No, you shouldn't do it by text. Text is for trivial things, not setting up dates. If you want to seem like a coward, then go by text, but the first dates are set up through voice, whether that's face-to-face or on the phone.

Anyways, now that I reread your first post, you messed up by not planning out the date when you first set it up.

You said you guys agreed to meet up yesterday, but you called her this morning to see what time you'd meet at. So the way I'm getting this, you said yesterday "hey let's meet up!" and she goes "OK", but you didn't plan a time or a place or anything.

Remember this: no time = no date. If you haven't planned WHEN you're going to meet, then there is NO date. You've simply pushed an idea on her that you wanted to meet, not more.

She reflected on it during the night, and thought *whatever*. However, you called her in the morning, left voicemail, called her again really soon afterwards, and basically showed that since the moment you woke up, you had her in your mind. The fact that you were nervous simply added to the bad mix.

You conveyed all of that not through your words, but through your actions.

Now next time, set up a definite date and time when you first talk about it. Don't accept "I'll call you on the day and set it up", don't give in to "I'll call you later and we'll arrange it". Those are shortcuts to getting rejected. Instead, take the initiative and plan it out right there, right then.

 

[drift king]

You need to let go, friend. I used to have anxiety like that. Now I don't give a shyt. Even if I f*ck up like you have, then I just let it slide. You'd be surprised if you let it slide a bit now, it will get the gears going in that little head of hers, and she'll wonder why you're losing interest. You gotta look at this like a game, relax, and have ZERO expectations. You should approach every woman you meet like that. ZERO expectations. If it doesn't work out, move onto the next one, but leave it open in case the woman changes her mind.

Treat every b*tch like an attention hor until she proves otherwise, and then you won't invest too much of yourself in any one particular girl. Do this long enough and you'll get the hang of it.

And dude......a little advice with the 'I feel ill shyt'.....you handled it way too weak with the 'So I guess we aren't seeing each other later?'.......that's the question a WOMAN would ask.

You need to jump all over that one immediately - Ill or not Ill - you say, okay, let's do a rain check, because if you're ill, you need to take it easy. Get some rest, I hope you feel better, and I'll talk to you later at some point. Bye.

Then Hang the F*ck up.

That will really mess with her mind, because at first she'll think you're being real accommodating, but then when you pull back, she'll start to wonder why you are being so reasonable. Is he a chump, or does he actually not care? Ill or not ill, this is the right way to handle that. I doubt she's really ill though, it sounds like a shyt test, or that she was truly annoyed.

Retreat now and see how it plays out, but next time a woman says she feels ill, FALL BACK IMMEDIATELY. Be polite and accommodating and get off the phone. You'll soon now what the deal is if you play it like that.

she actually was ill, she sounded terrible on the phone and me annoying her by calling to get an answer just p*ssed her off.

it's just weird that she showed so much interest on our date even wanting to meet up the next day and getting excited by it then i try to be cool leave it a few days and call and make arrangements but when it comes to the business end of the convo where i suggest a time but sound indecisive and she says she'll let me know.. i almost take this as a direct no.

i can't think on my feet quick enough when she gives me a wishy washy answer and until i do i'm going to suffer this same anxiety about each successful first date.

it's hard for me cos the ones i've met recently none of them are into me physically but met me cos of my 'charm' but because that didn't show up in person as on facebook they get disappointed and i'm left having self esteem issues.. so when 1 actually is into me i get overexcited and try my best to make sure i don't lose this. im my own worst enemy.

how do i counter all of this when i'm so unappealing physically to so many girls?

it seems my game just isn't close to being strong enough and even my issues with anxiety outside of girls keep prevailing.

 

[drift king]

No, you shouldn't do it by text. Text is for trivial things, not setting up dates. If you want to seem like a coward, then go by text, but the first dates are set up through voice, whether that's face-to-face or on the phone.

Anyways, now that I reread your first post, you messed up by not planning out the date when you first set it up.

You said you guys agreed to meet up yesterday, but you called her this morning to see what time you'd meet at. So the way I'm getting this, you said yesterday "hey let's meet up!" and she goes "OK", but you didn't plan a time or a place or anything.

Remember this: no time = no date. If you haven't planned WHEN you're going to meet, then there is NO date. You've simply pushed an idea on her that you wanted to meet, not more.

She reflected on it during the night, and thought *whatever*. However, you called her in the morning, left voicemail, called her again really soon afterwards, and basically showed that since the moment you woke up, you had her in your mind. The fact that you were nervous simply added to the bad mix.

You conveyed all of that not through your words, but through your actions.

Now next time, set up a definite date and time when you first talk about it. Don't accept "I'll call you on the day and set it up", don't give in to "I'll call you later and we'll arrange it". Those are shortcuts to getting rejected. Instead, take the initiative and plan it out right there, right then.

your last paragraph is exactly the advice i need to know.

the way it was i didn't give a definite time to meet she said she'd let me know then i called back to arrange it for today.

but anyway the advice i need is if she says 'i'll call u on the day and set it up' or 'i'll let you know later/tomorrow' etc

what do i say to counter these statements?

what i usually do is question why she can't give me an answer there and then.. i just come across as pushy and full on. what would be the best answers when she says those things without seeming pushy that you need an answer right there?

when i use the 'well if u can't give me a yes/no right now then i'll make other plans.' usually this never works for me cos they'll tell me to go make other plans like calling my bluff.

 

[AlexTheGreat]

What I think you should do in such a situation is not to threaten them with making other plans, but rather tell them you already have other plans between X and Y time, and you're only free at Z time (the time most suitable for you). If she can't make that time, then tell her you'll see her another time.

This way, you don't seem desperate to see her; you don't look needy; you're a busy guy and have other plans; and you're confident enough that if she can't see you on your terms, then she won't see you at all.

Ex:
You: "Let's meet up tomorrow."
Her: "Cool, I'll call you tomorrow to set it up"
You: "No, I'm busy tomorrow during the day, I've got to *invent some excuse* in the morning, but I can see you at *your time of choice*."
Her: "Oh I don't think I can make that time."
You: "Ok that's cool, we'll catch up another time."
End Convo.

Leave and let her ponder, and get back to her a few days/a week later.

With this method, whether you get the date or not, you leave with integrity and self-respect that'll only increase your value in her eyes.

 

[pete101]

What I think you should do in such a situation is not to threaten them with making other plans, but rather tell them you already have other plans between X and Y time, and you're only free at Z time (the time most suitable for you). If she can't make that time, then tell her you'll see her another time.

This way, you don't seem desperate to see her; you don't look needy; you're a busy guy and have other plans; and you're confident enough that if she can't see you on your terms, then she won't see you at all.

Ex:
You: "Let's meet up tomorrow."
Her: "Cool, I'll call you tomorrow to set it up"
You: "No, I'm busy tomorrow during the day, I've got to *invent some excuse* in the morning, but I can see you at *your time of choice*."
Her: "Oh I don't think I can make that time."
You: "Ok that's cool, we'll catch up another time."
End Convo.

Leave and let her ponder, and get back to her a few days/a week later.

With this method, whether you get the date or not, you leave with integrity and self-respect that'll only increase your value in her eyes.

But what if she replies to him with ''I'll let you know later today'' or ''I'll let you know in the morning'' like in his example?

Should you demand an answer there and there because there is no reason why she can't let you know right then if you're going to be meeting like 6-7 hours later?

 

[DonGorgon]

Golden Rule #602:

Girls tend to F the guys who they call, not the guys that call them...

 

[AlexTheGreat]

But what if she replies to him with ''I'll let you know later today'' or ''I'll let you know in the morning'' like in his example?

Did you read my reply?

Here, I'll help you.


Ex:
You: "Let's meet up later today."
Her: "Cool, I'll let you know later today or I'll let you know in the morning"
You: "No, I'm busy during the day, I've got to *invent some excuse* at *some time*, but I can see you at *your time of choice*."
Her: "Oh I don't think I can make that time."
You: "Ok that's cool, we'll catch up another time."
End Convo.

Should you demand an answer there and there because there is no reason why she can't let you know right then if you're going to be meeting like 6-7 hours later?

No you shouldn't demand an answer. And frankly, if you've just met the girl and only went on one date with her, you haven't built enough connection to deserve an answer.

The problem is you expect something out of the phone call. Stop expecting, start enjoying. Take the pressure off yourself, and stop trying to hook up with the girl so hard. What you're doing (again) is being desperate for her attention, this time in the form of a date. You want to basically force her to date you. That will not go out well, and women won't take that.

In my example, if she doesn't wanna plan something right now, and refuses your offer, then you hang up the phone. That way you're NOT being desperate, nor needy, and you don't care about the outcome. That is VERY attractive for a woman, because you don't need her, and you're a busy man.

The best advice, as was already posted, is get a life outside of girls. Don't sit and wait and think about what you'll say to her: it'll only make you nervous and you'll DEFINITELY screw up. Do other things, and when you're pumped, in a confident state of mind, THEN you can call her.