TODAY'S MEN: "Sensitive, feminized and resentful"

Krassus

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Article from Salon.com. I highlighted what i think are the most interesting/controversial parts for those who don't feel like reading the whole fvcking thing. Draw your own conclusions. Mine: FVCK "today's young 'men' "! Original

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No intercourse, please -- we're enlightened
Sensitive, feminized and resentful, today's young men no longer have the sexual authority to please a woman -- no matter how much oral sex they perform.

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By Ann Marlowe
 

Krassus

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By Ann Marlowe

Oct. 1, 2003 | It was after seeing "Thirteen" and noticing the display rack of handcuffs at Sam Goody on Sixth Avenue that it hit me: The polymorphously perverse, gender-is-just-a-construct future that radical feminists and academics used to dream of has actually arrived. Men no longer have any authority, either in their own eyes or in women's, the genders are distinguished socially mainly by stuff they buy, and eroticism has fled from the bedroom to the store. It's sexier for most of us to go shopping than to make love, and so we do. As a friend said when I told her I'd spent much of the weekend in bed with a man, "Who has time for that? The weekend is the only chance I have to do my shopping."

And handcuffs -- well, seeing them at Sam Goody made me wistful. Once upon a time, you could still shock a guy by pulling them out. I suspect that there's a connection between the collapse of masculine authority and the mainstreaming of S/M; neither gender is too good at distinguishing power and authority, and nostalgia for male authority can translate into fetishizing symbols of power. Women secretly want men with authority, but they fall for insecure passive-aggressive guys who view every aspect of life as a power struggle, or for cranky killjoys or petty sadists.

The collapse of the patriarchy was supposed to make women happy -- we were supposed to get more sex, freer sex, better sex, more loving sex and better relations between men and women. If you went to an Ivy League college in the last 20 years or had a professor who did, you probably heard something about this.

But instead men treat women worse than ever, women are retreating to 1950s notions that sex is something men like, and the nearly successful effort to stamp out gender contrast has made upper-middle-class American sex miserably dull, with or without handcuffs. Men and women are just too much alike stylistically now for much erotic energy to arise from their conjunction.

This is especially true of those in their 20s. Here's a relevant confession: Ever since I've been in my early 30s I've tended to date younger men. I'm now 45, and in the last five years I haven't been able to get interested in men in their 20s, no matter how cute or buff. Men in their 20s -- well, the Ivy League, professional sorts I meet, with their yoga classes and exquisite sensitivity about treating a woman any differently from a man -- just aren't masculine enough to be bedable.

Thus the legacy of two decades of feminism in academia. Younger people have bought into the idea that your lover or spouse is a friend of the opposite sex -- although one who will exhibit bad manners you wouldn't expect from your friends' pets, much less your friends. The bad manners and androgyny go hand in hand; along with the erotic aura, tenderness and respect have disappeared. These young guys feel free to admit to physical fears, grooming preoccupations and social anxieties their fathers had the good sense to conceal, if they had them. They dress like overgrown toddlers, in oversize T-shirts and baggy pants, clothing that begs you not to take them seriously as grown-ups. They're *****-whipped and tamed by 30, but just below the surface they seethe with hostility and resentment at women, because they're quite aware that their girlfriends or wives treat sex as a commodity to be doled out in return for something better.
Neither the young men nor the young women enjoy it as much as they were told they would. Maybe the situation is worse for the women because, after all, it's the men who are more like women, not the women who are more like men.

The women have won, if you've won when you have worse sex than your grandmother did. Secretly they don't find these men very exciting, either. And they don't feel feminine when they're with them. What does "feminine" mean anyway, besides the result of a lot of grooming rituals drag queens can do too? Maybe it means having a baby. Sex is for corralling a man long enough to secure a "commitment" and then a baby.

The new joylessness: Talk with someone in their 20s about marriage and they bring in the word "work" in the first three minutes. I didn't think like that when I was with a man for seven years in my 20s, and I don't recall that my friends did either. This "work" goes along with the ubiquitous use of the word "relationship" in the romantic sphere, a word first used for a sexual connection in 1944, according to the OED; before that it was only used in a business context. And now that the patriarchy's gone, everything isn't pleasure, as radical theorists imagined, but business.

It makes perfect sense that the most popular sex act among younger people is oral sex, which lends itself so well to exchange. One for you, one for me. Check any online dating service and you'd have the impression that the male sex organ was the tongue. A recent scan revealed that of the 4,108 men on Craig's List seeking women for "casual encounters," 209 used the word "f*ck" in their ads, 219 referred to their "tongue" and 363 to their "oral" predilections. Heaven knows what the rest of them planned to do in bed.

Oral sex is what American women say they want, and they have their men trained to do it, but do either men or women really prefer it to intercourse?
No one dares say it, but the ****oral orgasm might be as much a myth as the vaginal -- or as little. If you return to the original article that debunked the idea that women enjoy f*cking, Anne Koedt's "The Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm" (1970), you'll notice that she gave no medical evidence for her belief that the ****oris rather than the vagina is the source of female sexual pleasure. You'll also notice that she has a strong aversion to the vagina. It's one thing to say that women only have ****oral orgasms, but one doubts the sanity of someone who writes that "women need no anesthesia inside the vagina during surgery." Who's first in line for that?

My bet is that just as many or more women have orgasms from f*cking as from oral sex while many others don't have either and fake them. That's right, they fake the ****oral orgasms their boyfriends congratulate themselves on having the sensitivity to bestow. If we're ready to believe that many women fake vaginal orgasms, even over many years with their husbands, why are we so sure some women don't fake their ****oral orgasms too? It's likely that many men believe they can tell more easily that way -- and that, not some extraordinary new access to kindness and generosity, might be the source of the new male "enthusiasm" for oral sex. But pin them down and they'll admit they can't be sure.

Meanwhile, women who have orgasms from being f*cked have learned to be quiet about it. F*cking is a suspect preference these days, as handcuffs used to be; after all, everyone knows that penetration is politically incorrect, involving all sorts of issues of gender difference and dominance and submission. Women who want a man to do what only a man can do in bed have to stick to over-40s or men from the Third World who haven't heard that they're supposed to pretend to like cunnilingus. But most American men have to pretend if they want to get laid, just as many women over the millennia have pretended to enjoy intercourse.

Nothing I say is meant to deny that oral sex is pleasurable for some people to give as well as to receive. But cunnilingus can be interpreted just as f*cking can and neither is simple. Each has a cultural role. And just as some people like f*cking partly for its cultural baggage, some people like cunnilingus for its associations or its lack of them.

The new American ideal is an equal relationship, satisfying our craving for justice and for simplicity. When I hear American women in their 20s and early 30s talk about their boyfriends, they seem preoccupied with whether they do 50 percent of the dishes and whether they spend 50 percent of the time talking about their problems and anxieties. Of course this is compensation for years of institutionalized unfairness, but it also sounds a lot like a defense against the powerful feelings they have for the men they love. And so with oral sex. It fits the 50-50 ethos better than f*cking.

It also fits our new suspicion of deep emotions. Another reason f*cking is out of fashion is that it makes us feel too much. Part of the appeal of oral sex -- and why it is rapidly becoming a favorite of teenagers -- is that it's lite sex. No one loses control, loses track of where they are, forgets that music is playing, screams, or weeps, when someone performs oral sex on them. But f*cking stirs deep emotions that go to our core as animals and humans. And with the absence of tenderness and trust between men and women, we're more and more inclined to banish deep emotion from our post-patriarchal lives.

What's often lost in the insistence on equality is quality -- how the people feel about each other, how much love they can give each other. We now feel queasy about the romantic language of our ancestors, who used the metaphors of slavery and devotion unabashedly. But is there another language with which to speak of love? Love does involve two people putting themselves in the power of each other. We've forgotten that what we are looking for between men and women is fairness and compassion, not identity, and there can be justice between people who acknowledge that their balance of power is unequal. The heterosexual act of love does involve women putting themselves literally in the power of men. And we no longer trust enough to do so.
 

WatchMeWalk

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That is the sickest **** I've ever read. No wonder the Y chromosome is degrading according to medical reports.
 

es_mer8

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This thread succeeds in making me pissed off at 99% of the male populace. Why don't guys see this **** happening?
 

Krassus

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Originally posted by es_mer8
This thread succeeds in making me pissed off at 99% of the male populace. Why don't guys see this **** happening?
Look at the bright side - ten times more pvssy for the rest of us ;)
 

ultrashogun

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Yeah we really need to go back to a patriarch society. Thats what I like about my girlfriend, shes from china where men still have the control, so she gives me most of the control.
Men just need to start beating woman again, that way there cant be any doubt about whos in control.
 

Evil-Rom

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Originally posted by ultrashogun
Men just need to start beating woman again, that way there cant be any doubt about whos in control.
Err... No?
 

( . )( . )

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WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! todays men are puzzies??????????? THIS CANT BE.

3 crucial components(in my opinion) that created this mess.

1* the media
2* listening to women
3* over analyzing
Oh well just be glad your aware of it, being aware makes you 1 step above every other clueless male floundering around oblivious , frustrated , and confused.

Originally posted by Silquee Smoove

Anyhow, does anyone including you WatchMeWalk have a link to the degrading Y chromosome story?
here you go http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifeandstyle/articles/6269513?source=Daily Mail
 

Krassus

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Originally posted by ultrashogun
Men just need to start beating woman again, that way there cant be any doubt about whos in control.
And while we're at it, we should also start hanging wife beaters again....
 

princelydeeds

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Originally posted by Krassus
And while we're at it, we should also start hanging wife beaters again....
Hanging wife beaters? Hmmm.... should we also start hanging women who beat their husbands? Domestic abuse is at a minimum an equal opportunity affair. In actuality, women hit men a lot more than men hit women. The only problem is that men do not report the abuse. Think for a minute how many times a woman hit you in an inappropriate manner? I have been punched, slapped, kicked, and assaulted by numerous women. Had I hit them in exactly the same manner in which they hit me, I would go to jail. As men, we are taught that women can't hurt us. If you call the police because your wife hit you, the police, your family, friends, neighbors and even people you don't know will laugh at you and say "HEY thats the guy that got beat up by his wife!" So we take the abuse, because as men we are supposed to be tough we aren't supposed to cry.

In general, if a woman calls the police becasue her husband hit her, he is definitely going to jail. If a man calls the police because his wife hit him, (If there is an arrest, which there probably won't be) its usually both people going to jail. It is very uncommon for women to get arrested for domestic abuse even when evidence is apparent.

Having been slapped dead in the face by a 120 pound woman, I can put to bed the myth that a woman can't hurt me. There was certainly a physical pain but even more of an emotional pain. The irony of the situation is that no 120 pound man would hit me like that and not fully expect that I was going to try my best to kick his a$$.

Women trust and rely heavily on our loving nature as men. They lie and tell us that love is not in our nature. If love wasn't in a mans nature we would have killed them along time ago. Not only do we allow them to live, we allowed them to be our equals and now we have allowed them to control us. The ultimate trust, IMHO, is when you can hit someone who outweighs you by 100 pounds and fully expect that they won't hit you back.
 

chlywly

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Its an interesting article, it makes some sense but I can't say I'm a fan of her writing style it's just far too flowery to make it seem like she has actual hardcore subtance, which I find sort of lacking... Yeah sure there is a power struggle, sure our gener rolls are in an odder place than ever before due to the constant numbing down and politically correcting.

Either way I would want to have a relationship with a woman who's wise enough to see past or through all of this, as I myself do, as for the rest of the chics out there running around on their shopping sprees; missing any sign of self identity or the desire to acquire it; they can be easily drawn into the sack.. we all know this from practice.

Sooo the article makes little or no difference to me, but interesting non the less. :cool:
 

Halo

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I think the salient point is this: modern men need to learn to go with their instincts. Millions of years of evolution made these instincts what they are, and we're allowing a bunch of ivory tower academics to condition us against them? It's cultural emasculation, and I see it manifested everywhere, even in things that aren't overtly sexual.

For example, has anyone else noticed a lot more men driving like women? By that I mean, people too hesitant and gutless to take initiative. I really think indecisive, timid drivers are a much bigger problem than so-called aggressive drivers. Back when I was a kid I remember seeing particularly ridiculous manoeuvers in traffic and my dad sarcastically saying "gee I wonder if it's a woman!", which it almost always was. Nowadays it's just as often a "man" as the offender.

Another example, academia's obsession with the word "gender"..."gender role", "gender identity", blah blah blah. The word gender is a linguistic one referring to the identity of a word, so that it can be used in proper grammatical context. To use it in description of a person's sex is a modern misnomer and yet another example of our feminized society's insistence on euphemizing everything.

I have seen so many people leave college dumber than when they started, yet all of them are convinced that they are so much more enlightened than those cavemen who've retained their raw masuline energy.
 

Black Bahindian

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This just makes me more proud that I'm on the DJ path. I don't want to be another statistic in "today's modernized man".
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Originally posted by Krassus
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But instead men treat women worse than ever, women are retreating to 1950s notions that sex is something men like, and the nearly successful effort to stamp out gender contrast has made upper-middle-class American sex miserably dull, with or without handcuffs. Men and women are just too much alike stylistically now for much erotic energy to arise from their conjunction.

This is especially true of those in their 20s. Here's a relevant confession: Ever since I've been in my early 30s I've tended to date younger men. I'm now 45, and in the last five years I haven't been able to get interested in men in their 20s, no matter how cute or buff. Men in their 20s -- well, the Ivy League, professional sorts I meet, with their yoga classes and exquisite sensitivity about treating a woman any differently from a man -- just aren't masculine enough to be bedable.
In my opinion, the collapse of the family unit has everything to do with this. In recent generations, people who were not compatible for long term relationships got married and had children then eventually divorced. With that for whatever reason, fathers have not stood up and exercised their rights to be more involved in the parenting of their children. This is where in the problem lies.

Single mothers have unknowingly in their nurturing ways brought up their daughters to be extremely independent and resentful if not wary of men because of their failed relationship. In the same example to raise 'enlightened' children, they teach their sons to be more in touch with their feminine side to be able to better understand women. This is a crock o'sh1t!

Without fathers being active in helping raise their children, today's young adults either have learned to hate the opposite sex or try zealously to be more like the opposite sex. Come on people, men and women are different for a reason and its not bad to embrace those reasons.
 

chlywly

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Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
In my opinion, the collapse of the family unit has everything to do with this. In recent generations, people who were not compatible for long term relationships got married and had children then eventually divorced. With that for whatever reason, fathers have not stood up and exercised their rights to be more involved in the parenting of their children. This is where in the problem lies.

Single mothers have unknowingly in their nurturing ways brought up their daughters to be extremely independent and resentful if not wary of men because of their failed relationship. In the same example to raise 'enlightened' children, they teach their sons to be more in touch with their feminine side to be able to better understand women. This is a crock o'sh1t!

Without fathers being active in helping raise their children, today's young adults either have learned to hate the opposite sex or try zealously to be more like the opposite sex. Come on people, men and women are different for a reason and its not bad to embrace those reasons.
This is a great point which I am constantly pondering on... yet a man will be a man, boys will be boys no matter right? It's not as simple as that sure a man needs a father figure, but most men growing up without father figures i've seen turn to crime, or become if anything more violant and masculen than feminen because of their mothers trying to soften them up so to speak...

Regardless of social conditioning our natural intuitive roles are embedded deep within us, it simply can't be unprogrammed in the matter of a few centuries...
 

Krassus

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Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
In my opinion, the collapse of the family unit has everything to do with this. In recent generations, people who were not compatible for long term relationships got married and had children then eventually divorced. With that for whatever reason, fathers have not stood up and exercised their rights to be more involved in the parenting of their children. This is where in the problem lies.

Single mothers have unknowingly in their nurturing ways brought up their daughters to be extremely independent and resentful if not wary of men because of their failed relationship. In the same example to raise 'enlightened' children, they teach their sons to be more in touch with their feminine side to be able to better understand women. This is a crock o'sh1t!

Without fathers being active in helping raise their children, today's young adults either have learned to hate the opposite sex or try zealously to be more like the opposite sex. Come on people, men and women are different for a reason and its not bad to embrace those reasons.
Can't help but wonder if this is one of the causes of the increasing popularity of homosexuality. According to a recent statistic, 20% of Australia's men are gay. That's insane! One in five!
 

MetalFortress

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I think the lack of good father figures in families, like Francisco said, is a big contributing factor to the collapse of the family unit. It's a big reason why men are becoming more feminine (or more anti-feminine, A LA jerklike), and why more women are becoming lesbian or bisexual.

Talk to a married youth pastor at a non-liberal Christian church about relationships, and he will most likely tell you that God created men to be the leaders, and that includes in the relationship too, and he'll also most likely say that a man should look out for his wife and her needs as if they were his own. This has backup in St. Paul's writings in Ephesians, where it reads, among other things, "However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

Many "enlightened" men are trying to turn this upside down. They are trying to turn women into the leader in the relationship, in an effort for "equality", because they hear what the feminists have been saying. They are becoming lapdogs to women, completely submissive followers. The result of this, is that women get bored and leave. In addition, they don't look at their girlfriends' or wives' needs as if they were their own. THEY QUIT CARING ABOUT THEIR OWN NEEDS and attend ONLY to their wives' needs, not caring if their wife even respects them or not.

Why do you think the enlightened 'sensitive nice guy' ilk of today is so bitter? Because they are so busy trying to please their female companion that they won't do ANYTHING for themselves, and don't really care if their female companion respects them or not. This screws over not only the men, but the women, because the women get bored with it, feel suffocated, and/or the bitterness starts to come out and drama ensues.

'For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction', and that has been what the nice guy flood has produced. Many single-parent guys, instead of listening to their moms and becoming more sensitive and supplicating and feminine, do exactly the opposite, and turn into jerks. They don't care about women, and are bitter against them, and because of that they treat women like dirt. They know to be the leader, but they take it too far and becoming a forceful, domineering bully type and forget all about their girlfriend's or wife's needs.

Those who have good fathers, or have a good source of information from which to learn, like this site, are much less likely to fit into one of the above two categories. The above two, nice guy and jerk, turn a relationship into an uneven equation, and when you have a tipping scale with uneven loads on either end, one load or the other falls off. In this case, with the nice guy, the man falls off, and with the jerk, the woman falls off. And obviously both parties fall off at the end of either misequation.

In these successful conservative Christian relationships that I referred to with the youth pastors, they are successful because both parties know their role and carry their load as they should, and thus both parties experience a happy marriage. An even load keeps stress from elevating due to one partner shouldering more than they can handle. What the degeneration of the family unit is leading to is a tendency to take on uneven loads being passed down among the generations, at least until the ship is righted, by this site or other influences, or even by one's own realizations.
 
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