to be an ahole or not to be?

[spang]

hi im new here. ill be honest im a nice guy, im an introvert, and i often care too much. im working on that. im really a frustrated nice guy.
it seems clear now that women love *******s and despise nice guys. i listen to tom leykis a lot now and he is right. nice dont get laid. but here is my issue...should you be an ******* only to women you want to bang, or to all women in general? are there any good women out there that dont think the same as others? theres always exceptions right? should you be an ******* to women you want to pursue a real relationship with?
i try to have logical conversations with women that are fruitless in getting their number or getting a date. i cant get anything to save my life. im 31 years old and its torture. ive always been nice to them and respectful, but it does not work at all. i havent had a date in 5 years. im about to go out of my ****in mind. im looking for a partner type of girlfriend i guess, one i can have a real relationship with. but apparently thats too much to ask.
i dont know how to be an *******. ive tried and it feels like im being something im not, just pretending. i know how to be assertive, but it seems thats not enough. any advice?

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

but here is my issue...should you be an ******* only to women you want to bang, or to all women in general?

That would be childish. You were born with a certain personality...you can't flip a switch and become a "badboy".

The key to getting women isn't being an azzhole. It's being social and knowing how to talk to people....all people.

are there any good women out there that dont think the same as others? theres always exceptions right? should you be an ******* to women you want to pursue a real relationship with?

see my comments above

i try to have logical conversations with women that are fruitless in getting their number or getting a date. i cant get anything to save my life. im 31 years old and its torture. ive always been nice to them and respectful, but it does not work at all.

Have you considered that maybe your problem is that you're boring? You can be both nice AND fun to hang out with.

i dont know how to be an *******. ive tried and it feels like im being something im not, just pretending. i know how to be assertive, but it seems thats not enough. any advice?

Exactly. And you would be pretending. Which is why you shouldn't do it. Look around you...there are plenty of dudes with girlfriends who AREN'T azzholes.

Seems like you need a complete overhaul in the confidence department. Do you travel? Do you have hobbies? You need to find value in yourself outside of women. If you're considering faking a personality to get girls, then you're worrying too much about girls.

 

[JohnChops]

dont be an ******* and dont be a nice guy. why not be a self confident, self improving, non desperate guy?

 

[DonJuanabe]

Got back a little while ago from a first date tonight. Consider for yourself what I am about to write:

Was I nice? No, that's not the right word. I was friendly. Funny. Occasionally sarcastic. Did I bust her chops? When appropriate, such as saying, with a slight smile: "So, would you call yourself bumbling?". Did I ask her questions? Often. Did I LISTEN to what she had to say? Yes, such that I could connect current pieces of conversation to things she had said half an hour before. When she mentioned being divorced did I ask question about the divorce? Hell no, I stay away from heavy or negative things.

Does this describe you in conversation with women?

 

[spang]

all i know is women run from me like the plague. i never act desperate or childish around them, never tried anything stupid to impress them, i just try to have a conversation. everybody keeps telling me i have to do this say this and that and nothing works.
maybe i am boring. i dont know what else to say to them. im a tall athletic muscular guy but im also a bit of a geek. so theres not a lot i can talk about that they will take an interest in. im not a swag type of guy.
i have confidence in my abilities, i can do anything...except talk to a female.

 

[DonJuanabe]

Remember women don't care what you say, they care how they feel. Here is an example:

You: So what do you do for work?
Her: I am an X and work at Y doing Z.
You: Do you like it?
Her: It's pretty good.
You: Would you rather do something else?
Her: If I could I would be an A.

Vs.

You: Imagine, if you could do anything you've ever dreamed of doing, anything you are passionate about, what would you do for a career?
Her: Oh, I've dreamed of being an X so I could do Y.

Notice the difference in conversation from her emotional perspective?

 

[spang]

Remember women don't care what you say, they care how they feel. Here is an example:

You: So what do you do for work?
Her: I am an X and work at Y doing Z.
You: Do you like it?
Her: It's pretty good.
You: Would you rather do something else?
Her: If I could I would be an A.

Vs.

You: Imagine, if you could do anything you've ever dreamed of doing, anything you are passionate about, what would you do for a career?
Her: Oh, I've dreamed of being an X so I could do Y.

Notice the difference in conversation from her emotional perspective?

so youre saying that instead of having a logical conversation with a girl, i should have a conversation that gets an emotional response?

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

all i know is women run from me like the plague. i never act desperate or childish around them, never tried anything stupid to impress them, i just try to have a conversation. everybody keeps telling me i have to do this say this and that and nothing works.
maybe i am boring. i dont know what else to say to them. im a tall athletic muscular guy but im also a bit of a geek. so theres not a lot i can talk about that they will take an interest in. im not a swag type of guy.
i have confidence in my abilities, i can do anything...except talk to a female.

Do you think that every guy you see with a woman is a "swag type of guy"?

Different personalities can get women. It's not all about being an azzhole or having swag.

so youre saying that instead of having a logical conversation with a girl, i should have a conversation that gets an emotional response?

...well....yeah.

 

[BigSmooth]

You're a tall athletic guy. You already have one positive trait going for you. Use it to your advantage.


As for logic vs. emotion, it is definitely about the emotions you make a girl feel. When you make her feel the full spectrum of emotion (well probably not sad/upset feelings on a first date) she will be more attracted to you than if you just played 20 questions with her all night long.

I would suggest reading some posts from the DJ Bible to get a good grasp on things.

 

[Iron]

Ah, a fellow Leykis listener. I agree that acting like an ******* CAN and probably will get you laid much more than acting the Nice Guy role, but there's a catch.

Do you WANT to be an *******? I don't think actually being an ******* is what makes a million panties drop. I think it's that *******-like behavior emulates enough of true DJ-like mannerisms that the woman feels that spark. There aren't a lot of truly confident, Alpha-types around, so ******* is like the generic, low quality substitute. In my opinion, chicks dig the confidence, the assertiveness, and the "if you don't like it, leave" attitude.

Then again, there are a lot of truly stupid people out there, and by population ratios, at least half will be female. If all it takes is acting like an *******, and you don't need to maintain an reputation, then meh.


As far as having a smart vs emotional conversation, think of it this way.....

If you are approaching a hot girl, and you have an interest in her, wouldn't it be SMART to have a conversation filled with EMOTIONAL responses from her. I mean, you're here on SS, so you're agenda is pretty clear I assume. Unless your are cruising around town looking to discuss the Higgs-Boson with that hottie in the bar.....

 

[spang]

Ah, a fellow Leykis listener. I agree that acting like an ******* CAN and probably will get you laid much more than acting the Nice Guy role, but there's a catch.

Do you WANT to be an *******? I don't think actually being an ******* is what makes a million panties drop. I think it's that *******-like behavior emulates enough of true DJ-like mannerisms that the woman feels that spark. There aren't a lot of truly confident, Alpha-types around, so ******* is like the generic, low quality substitute. In my opinion, chicks dig the confidence, the assertiveness, and the "if you don't like it, leave" attitude.

Then again, there are a lot of truly stupid people out there, and by population ratios, at least half will be female. If all it takes is acting like an *******, and you don't need to maintain an reputation, then meh.


As far as having a smart vs emotional conversation, think of it this way.....

If you are approaching a hot girl, and you have an interest in her, wouldn't it be SMART to have a conversation filled with EMOTIONAL responses from her. I mean, you're here on SS, so you're agenda is pretty clear I assume. Unless your are cruising around town looking to discuss the Higgs-Boson with that hottie in the bar.....

no i dont want to be an *******. i see the value in being assertive and straight up with people and not caring what people think. if i dont be myself then that in itself is a false act. but i dont like hurting people or being a ****. it just seems like the only viable option now, like leykis teaches guys, because what i have been doing doesnt work. but of course i have the conflict with it.

i guess my biggest problem is i dont know WHAT to say. i dont approach them to discuss particle physics or anything like that. im an engineering student so im more into that kind of stuff. i just ask them about themselves or make an observation to talk about.
ill give an example....for about the last month ive been hanging out in coffee shops and the library, just trying to put myself in a position to meet them. i was in starbucks one day and this attractive girl was sitting across from me. i worked up the courage and talked to her. she was reading a book on medical stuff and i asked her about it. she was in college like me and we got to talking about our fields. then asked about her life and she asked about mine some. it went ok and we talked for a good 30 minutes(logical conversation). she just seemed uncomfortable in my presence or something. she didnt seem interested in me at all. i didnt ask for her number because of that, so i asked if she would be back here again any next week and she said i dont know youll see me around, im in here all the time. (but earlier she said she hardly comes in there.)
i took that as a rejection. maybe i bored her. i didnt tease her or try to be a jerk i was just nice. i didnt get what i did wrong. maybe if i had manipulated her thinking and emotions it would have been different? why do i have to do that just to get through to a female?
i mean every approach i make with a woman goes this same way. its frustrating to no end.

what could i have done to improve how that went? what exactly do i say to get her emotional and feeling good about me?

 

[DonJuan_DeRosco]

Sounds like all you really need to do is learn to 'banter'. Not just with women, banter with anyone and everyone.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

no i dont want to be an *******. i see the value in being assertive and straight up with people and not caring what people think. if i dont be myself then that in itself is a false act. but i dont like hurting people or being a ****. it just seems like the only viable option now, like leykis teaches guys, because what i have been doing doesnt work. but of course i have the conflict with it.

i guess my biggest problem is i dont know WHAT to say. i dont approach them to discuss particle physics or anything like that. im an engineering student so im more into that kind of stuff. i just ask them about themselves or make an observation to talk about.
ill give an example....for about the last month ive been hanging out in coffee shops and the library, just trying to put myself in a position to meet them. i was in starbucks one day and this attractive girl was sitting across from me. i worked up the courage and talked to her. she was reading a book on medical stuff and i asked her about it. she was in college like me and we got to talking about our fields. then asked about her life and she asked about mine some. it went ok and we talked for a good 30 minutes(logical conversation). she just seemed uncomfortable in my presence or something. she didnt seem interested in me at all. i didnt ask for her number because of that, so i asked if she would be back here again any next week and she said i dont know youll see me around, im in here all the time. (but earlier she said she hardly comes in there.)
i took that as a rejection. maybe i bored her. i didnt tease her or try to be a jerk i was just nice. i didnt get what i did wrong. maybe if i had manipulated her thinking and emotions it would have been different? why do i have to do that just to get through to a female?
i mean every approach i make with a woman goes this same way. its frustrating to no end.

what could i have done to improve how that went? what exactly do i say to get her emotional and feeling good about me?

The problem is that an unoffensive inquisitor doesn't make a woman FEEL anything, except maybe boredom or annoyance (see what you've written above).

In that conversation with coffeeshop girl, did you make her laugh? Did you tease her at all? Did you challenge her intellect and then shift to an emotional topic? Did you get her to invest in her answers or were you just interrogating her? You need to get a woman to associated you with things fun, interesting, exciting. That will make them want to see you again.

 

[ka_mate]

Hey there Spang,

I don't believe in acting like a bad guy just to get girls.

I think that instead of going from

Nice guy >>>> A$$hat

You should go from

Nice guy >>>> Confident, daring guy

What I mean is this.

When you focus on achieving a certain outcome with a girl (i.e. getting her number) and you are fixed up this you sometimes sacrifice your ability to be edgy, a bit naughty and daring.

For instance, imagine you were a diplomat for your nation and your nation was in a rapidly detoriating situation with a nation much larger and powerful than your own. As a diplomat you are sent to speak with the leaders of the Super Power and if you upset them your country will face war, suffering and significant pain.

Coming into this meeting your attitude would be

- walking on proverbial egg shells
- very polite and absolutely not attempting any 'risky' jokes (paying someone out jokingly)
- nervous as all hell
- desperately trying not to offend the other person

Because you would be fixated on the outcome (i.e. not starting a war) you would lose the jokey, natural charm nature of your personality.

Sometimes guys adopt this attitude when talking to girls

They become so fixated on the outcome that they sacrifice this risk-taking part of their persona. The great thing is though you can drop this attitude because a negative outcome (rejection/no number) is completely insignificant compared to the example situation (War).

When you are talking to a girl and ask for her number you have absolutely nothing to lose

positive outcome = you get her number
negative outcome = your situation remains the same as before you approached her. You lose nothing but gain the experience of approaching a girl

Because you have nothing to lose you can be more risk aye (sorry not sure how to spell it)

My advice for you would be to

Become more risk aye and exciting in your conversations with girls

For example, In the past I felt it was inappropriate/rude to mention sexual things and make sexual references with a girl. Now, I try to be more cheeky and playful and incorporate sexual jokes and comments. These can be risque (about any taboo sexual thing or regular sex) and sometimes don't work out. But I keep doing it anyway. I feel that you want to get some emotional reaction from a girl and if you're being risque you can get a shock or embarrassed reaction.

I believe that

Women want guys who are willing to say risque things and who are daring and willing to take chances even though there is a very real possibility of failure

For me, I went through a lot of pain and soul searching from a particular girl and I felt that my mistake was just caring too much about her.

I found great comfort in "not really giving a sh!t about what girls think" This doesn't mean I didn't listen to them or acted rude. Instead, this means that I 'went there' I began to be unafraid to offend a girl, to make a joke at her expense and sometimes this pulled off and sometimes it didn't.

E.g.

Yesterday I was talking to a girl

So she had mentioned she was in group 3

A few minutes in the conversation later
...
Her: Well only great looking people are in group X
Me: Wait, hold on a minute so why are you in group X then? (said with a mischevious grin)
Her: Oh no you didn't. (a reaction of a bit of a smile/shock/mock offended)

i guess my biggest problem is i dont know WHAT to say. i dont approach them to discuss particle physics or anything like that. im an engineering student so im more into that kind of stuff. i just ask them about themselves or make an observation to talk about.
ill give an example....for about the last month ive been hanging out in coffee shops and the library, just trying to put myself in a position to meet them. i was in starbucks one day and this attractive girl was sitting across from me. i worked up the courage and talked to her. she was reading a book on medical stuff and i asked her about it. she was in college like me and we got to talking about our fields. then asked about her life and she asked about mine some. it went ok and we talked for a good 30 minutes(logical conversation). she just seemed uncomfortable in my presence or something. she didnt seem interested in me at all. i didnt ask for her number because of that, so i asked if she would be back here again any next week and she said i dont know youll see me around, im in here all the time. (but earlier she said she hardly comes in there.)

I would definitely advocate working on producing an emotional response. As guys it's sometimes easy to become to logical (something I can do).

Analysing your interaction with that girl here are my notes

+ I like that you've approached her

- You made 'classic' small chat with her. She has conversations about what she's studying at college with tons of people. First or second at parties is often "So what are you studying?". You want to be 'daring, different, fun' and this well worn path isn't exciting.

O I would advise looking up 'active listening' and the skills involved so that when she is talking to you about her life you can show that you are listening and understand it the best.

- You talked about medical stuff which isn't particularly sexy. Unless she has a fetish for medical chat (which is a super long shot) this conversation won't turn her on. Think about the words we associate with medical things

Clinical
Professional
Logical
Scientific

and now compare these to attributes that women are said to find attractive

Exciting
Risk taking
Daring
Sexual
Emotional

These two list of words are almost complete opposites.

Instead of focussing on a logical exchange with a girl aim to "have fun, crack jokes, make bad jokes, confuse her, shock her and keep her on her toes"



I believe there is a great strength to be found in being prepared to look like a fool

 

[DonJuanabe]

Spang,

Do a search for threads on solipsism. This is how women view the world around them: not rationally, but via how they feel at that particular time. This will help you understand why you MUST alter how you communicate with them.

Here is an example of how solipsism can alter a woman's reality (you will likely find yourself asking how is this possible): Months ago I had a second date with a girl and, due to miscommunication, took her on a casual date involving hanging out with my friends. When we left and I was taking her back to her place she was very angry and she told me she had wanted to go on a romantic dinner date and if I didn't change my ways I would end up in the friend zone. While I took control of the argument and ended it on my terms, the point is that if a girl wants a romantic dinner date it means she is attracted to you, right? It means there is a decent likelihood of sex later, right? And in fact there was, as she invited me in to her house and there was a serious make-out session later on (she initiated the tongue action), but I chose not to escalate despite the signs (yes, I should have). But that's not the point of this. Some weeks later we are "over", and six weeks after that she and I go to an event together as "friends". She has been dating someone else but we had already made plans to attend the event. At this event the topic of when we dated comes up and I mention the second date. She INSISTS that doing something casual was her idea. She is ADAMANT. I asked whether she remembers being angry with me on the drive back to her place, telling me she had wanted to go on a romantic dinner date, and saying I would end up in the friend zone if I didn't change my ways. She looks like she was just hit upside the head with a clue-by-four. Dumbfounded. She says, oh, that's right, and her voice trails off. A few weeks later we are talking and she insists she was never attracted to me. Do you see where this is going? A woman judges the world based on how she feels at that moment. Because of the negative feelings associated with a breakup, and because I made her angry with an email I sent her two days after we stopped dating (my intention was not to make her angry, it was to show her I understand her emotional issues), if she can decide that she was never attracted to me then she won't feel sad/bad. Thus, she convinced herself that she never wanted to go on a romantic dinner date with me despite the reality that she absolutely did. And certainly, if she is in a relationship with someone new, she doesn't want to acknowledge ever having been attracted to me because it can conflict with her new situation. So, a woman will warp or deny reality so that the new reality conforms with how she feels at that moment -- the world revolves around her.

You need to understand this -- women view the world -- and YOU -- based solely on how they feel. That's why initial introductions are very important. If you make them laugh they feel good. If you are nervous they feel dominant and women like men to be dominant. If you are boring they feel bored. Etc.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Spang,

Do a search for threads on solipsism. This is how women view the world around them: not rationally, but via how they feel at that particular time. This will help you understand why you MUST alter how you communicate with them.

Here is an example of how solipsism can alter a woman's reality (you will likely find yourself asking how is this possible): Months ago I had a second date with a girl and, due to miscommunication, took her on a casual date involving hanging out with my friends. When we left and I was taking her back to her place she was very angry and she told me she had wanted to go on a romantic dinner date and if I didn't change my ways I would end up in the friend zone. While I took control of the argument and ended it on my terms, the point is that if a girl wants a romantic dinner date it means she is attracted to you, right? It means there is a decent likelihood of sex later, right? And in fact there was, as she invited me in to her house and there was a serious make-out session later on (she initiated the tongue action), but I chose not to escalate despite the signs (yes, I should have). But that's not the point of this. Some weeks later we are "over", and six weeks after that she and I go to an event together as "friends". She has been dating someone else but we had already made plans to attend the event. At this event the topic of when we dated comes up and I mention the second date. She INSISTS that doing something casual was her idea. She is ADAMANT. I asked whether she remembers being angry with me on the drive back to her place, telling me she had wanted to go on a romantic dinner date, and saying I would end up in the friend zone if I didn't change my ways. She looks like she was just hit upside the head with a clue-by-four. Dumbfounded. She says, oh, that's right, and her voice trails off. A few weeks later we are talking and she insists she was never attracted to me. Do you see where this is going? A woman judges the world based on how she feels at that moment. Because of the negative feelings associated with a breakup, and because I made her angry with an email I sent her two days after we stopped dating (my intention was not to make her angry, it was to show her I understand her emotional issues), if she can decide that she was never attracted to me then she won't feel sad/bad. Thus, she convinced herself that she never wanted to go on a romantic dinner date with me despite the reality that she absolutely did. And certainly, if she is in a relationship with someone new, she doesn't want to acknowledge ever having been attracted to me because it can conflict with her new situation. So, a woman will warp or deny reality so that the new reality conforms with how she feels at that moment -- the world revolves around her.

You need to understand this -- women view the world -- and YOU -- based solely on how they feel. That's why initial introductions are very important. If you make them laugh they feel good. If you are nervous they feel dominant and women like men to be dominant. If you are boring they feel bored. Etc.

Excellent advice everyone should heed.

 

[floydb25]

Need more details. I don't believe its as simple as being nice. How are your social skills in general? Are you socially awkward? Are you a social butterfly? Able to talk to anyone and make friends easily. That's what you want. Just be able to conversate with anyone, at any time, about anything, be able to add to the conversation, and have them feel good about it. Not man people can do this, so don't feel bad.

Try to be more fun, laid back, and humorous than serious. But being serious is good, too. Try to blend it all into your personality. Just always have something to talk about, be able to blend into any conversation, and listen to what they say. It all starts with basic conversational skills. If people are remembering you, wanting to talk to you / hanging out, coming around unannounced, and just being around you - you're doing it right. If you're social and likeable, this comes and happens naturally. ****, I hate people, am an introvent, keep to myself, etc, but people always want to talk and hang out. Making and keeping friends is very easy.

Try to use your intelligence in a way that makes you interesting and funny, but not overly so. You don't want to be a clown. You have to be able to connect with people on a deeper level. It's hard to explain, 'cause its all natural to me. Just don't have any problems talking to people, and being likeable. Think of Will Smith from the Fresh Prince. Try to be something like that.

It is possible to change, 'cause I did. Pulled a complete 180 from what I was in the schooling years. Working helped a lot, 'cause I could conversate with people easily, and we automatically had something in common. You have to be able to add to the conversation - not just sit back and ask a billion questions. Follow-ups are important. It should feel smooth and natural - not forced or awkward.

As for women: how attractive are you? Do they come up to you, and start a conversation? Do they stare at you? Any flirting or signs of interest? Being tall and muscular isn't as important as natural looks. As well, people in general respond more favorably to those who are good looking. Not sure why. Just the way it is. If women are coming up to you, or coming back to you - you're doing something right. You say you get no dates, so that doesn't sound good.

Presentation is also important. People want to be around other people who at least appear to be interesting, confident, sociable, etc. That's why they typically dress and act a certain way - it gives off these vibes. Things like a decent wardrobe with nice looking clothes, clean, short haircuts, a little jewelry, nice shoes, etc. You don't have to overdo it, but just look like someone who is out-going, confident, takes care of their appearance, etc. People respond to this. Perception means a lot. They want to be around a certain person.

You can be shy, reserved, introverted, nice, etc, and still be successful with people. You just have to be socially confident and interesting. I am proof of this. People always want to talk and hang out, even though I hate them. Ha ha.

Intelligence isn't a bad thing at all, either. You just have to use it correctly - in a way that works well in a social setting. You can't just be smart and geeky, and that's it. Provide insight, opinions, knowledge, etc, as you're conversating normally. Don't just explain things, or act like a know-it-all. Don't dumb yourself down and act like a retarded douche bag. Use your smarts to your advantage. People find this very appealing - if used correctly. You just have to be socially likeable in general. The ideal is to be intelligent, laid back, insightful, interesting and funny - all in the same conversation. It should be your natural personality.

That Lewkis whatever guy doesn't know anything. Don't listen to him, or dwell on the negativity aspect of your failures. That just causes bitterness and irrational thinking. People hate *******s. Dysfunctional people flock to them. You won't find any meaningful relationships or friendships by being an *******. Just a lot of crazies, trouble makers, jerks, people with issues, etc. Improve what you may be lacking - instead of stereotype and assume.

Being a little sarcastic and ****y isn't a bad thing, though. You don't have to be a jerk about it, either. When blended in with other social aspects - you'll have an easy time with people. Don't be the drab / lame kind of nice guy - be an interesting good guy instead. Don't insult or make fun of people, or be mean in general. This doesn't mean you can't swear, talk about stuff that pisses you off, etc. Using cuss words is normal for me, but I'm not rude towards people. No one wants to feel like a loser or nobody, except those with issues (see above; those who migrate to *******s). Negativity is just part of life. Just use it in a non-insultful way. A lot of conversations might end up with a negative theme, buy that doesn't mean you have to ***** or act mean.

Definitely don't come off as miserable or hateful. Don't ***** constantly, play the victim, be all "woe is me", whine, etc. That, too, only attracts dysfunctional people into your life. Misery loves company, so don't be miserable, and ***** about everything or everyone. Don't come off as the bitter nice guy who finishes last, and hates the world for it. Sane, healthy, normal people like to be around those with similar attributes.

On that note: what kind of people are you chasing after, attracting, and being attracted to? This is also important. People attract what they are. If you're being nice to a *****, its not going to work.

Hope this makes sense. It's hard to explain something that's natural.

 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Whats wrong with trying it out? If it works for you and you like it then great. If its not your thing then at least you gave it a try.

 

[youngmack]

Need more details. I don't believe its as simple as being nice. How are your social skills in general? Are you socially awkward? Are you a social butterfly? Able to talk to anyone and make friends easily. That's what you want. Just be able to conversate with anyone, at any time, about anything, be able to add to the conversation, and have them feel good about it. Not man people can do this, so don't feel bad.

Try to be more fun, laid back, and humorous than serious. But being serious is good, too. Try to blend it all into your personality. Just always have something to talk about, be able to blend into any conversation, and listen to what they say. It all starts with basic conversational skills. If people are remembering you, wanting to talk to you / hanging out, coming around unannounced, and just being around you - you're doing it right. If you're social and likeable, this comes and happens naturally. ****, I hate people, am an introvent, keep to myself, etc, but people always want to talk and hang out. Making and keeping friends is very easy.

Try to use your intelligence in a way that makes you interesting and funny, but not overly so. You don't want to be a clown. You have to be able to connect with people on a deeper level. It's hard to explain, 'cause its all natural to me. Just don't have any problems talking to people, and being likeable. Think of Will Smith from the Fresh Prince. Try to be something like that.

It is possible to change, 'cause I did. Pulled a complete 180 from what I was in the schooling years. Working helped a lot, 'cause I could conversate with people easily, and we automatically had something in common. You have to be able to add to the conversation - not just sit back and ask a billion questions. Follow-ups are important. It should feel smooth and natural - not forced or awkward.

As for women: how attractive are you? Do they come up to you, and start a conversation? Do they stare at you? Any flirting or signs of interest? Being tall and muscular isn't as important as natural looks. As well, people in general respond more favorably to those who are good looking. Not sure why. Just the way it is. If women are coming up to you, or coming back to you - you're doing something right. You say you get no dates, so that doesn't sound good.

Presentation is also important. People want to be around other people who at least appear to be interesting, confident, sociable, etc. That's why they typically dress and act a certain way - it gives off these vibes. Things like a decent wardrobe with nice looking clothes, clean, short haircuts, a little jewelry, nice shoes, etc. You don't have to overdo it, but just look like someone who is out-going, confident, takes care of their appearance, etc. People respond to this. Perception means a lot. They want to be around a certain person.

You can be shy, reserved, introverted, nice, etc, and still be successful with people. You just have to be socially confident and interesting. I am proof of this. People always want to talk and hang out, even though I hate them. Ha ha.

Intelligence isn't a bad thing at all, either. You just have to use it correctly - in a way that works well in a social setting. You can't just be smart and geeky, and that's it. Provide insight, opinions, knowledge, etc, as you're conversating normally. Don't just explain things, or act like a know-it-all. Don't dumb yourself down and act like a retarded douche bag. Use your smarts to your advantage. People find this very appealing - if used correctly. You just have to be socially likeable in general. The ideal is to be intelligent, laid back, insightful, interesting and funny - all in the same conversation. It should be your natural personality.

That Lewkis whatever guy doesn't know anything. Don't listen to him, or dwell on the negativity aspect of your failures. That just causes bitterness and irrational thinking. People hate *******s. Dysfunctional people flock to them. You won't find any meaningful relationships or friendships by being an *******. Just a lot of crazies, trouble makers, jerks, people with issues, etc. Improve what you may be lacking - instead of stereotype and assume.

Being a little sarcastic and ****y isn't a bad thing, though. You don't have to be a jerk about it, either. When blended in with other social aspects - you'll have an easy time with people. Don't be the drab / lame kind of nice guy - be an interesting good guy instead. Don't insult or make fun of people, or be mean in general. This doesn't mean you can't swear, talk about stuff that pisses you off, etc. Using cuss words is normal for me, but I'm not rude towards people. No one wants to feel like a loser or nobody, except those with issues (see above; those who migrate to *******s). Negativity is just part of life. Just use it in a non-insultful way. A lot of conversations might end up with a negative theme, buy that doesn't mean you have to ***** or act mean.

Definitely don't come off as miserable or hateful. Don't ***** constantly, play the victim, be all "woe is me", whine, etc. That, too, only attracts dysfunctional people into your life. Misery loves company, so don't be miserable, and ***** about everything or everyone. Don't come off as the bitter nice guy who finishes last, and hates the world for it. Sane, healthy, normal people like to be around those with similar attributes.

On that note: what kind of people are you chasing after, attracting, and being attracted to? This is also important. People attract what they are. If you're being nice to a *****, its not going to work.

Hope this makes sense. It's hard to explain something that's natural.

Yeah this is my problem. I have HORRIBLE social skills. I am shy and introverted. I am not interesting. My conversations are always boring and dull, i never know what to talk about your say next.

Floydb this is a freaking good ass post of what socially awkward dudes need to be like...But how exactly does a socially awkward dude change to become like this? An interesting,fun, social-able guy that people want to be around and hang with. This is my NUMBER ONE problem and i feel that if i change, life and all other aspects would be much easier for me.

 

[DonJuanabe]

What do you like to do? What are your hobbies? These things can put you in social situations where you meet women and share an interest that you can both relate to and discuss.