to apologise or not to apologise

[yoimjamie]

I'm a stubborn mother****er. If i think i am right, i will fight like a man possessed for my side of the debate. I am able to see reason of course, i am not blindly stubborn. But nonetheless, i am a stubborn mother****er.

Chick i am macking on is also a stubborn mother****er. I mean, i can't work out who between us is the more stubborn. Makes for fun situations.

However i almost never get angry, just animated so it looks like i'm emotional when really i'm not.

But...

Went out with her on tuesday night after work, to a melbourne cup function. we both had too much to be able to drive. I told her she wasn't driving. She told me she was. Discussion went on. Turned into debate. She claimed she was fine to drive, which isn't the point, because your life is ****ing over if you hit anyone, which can happen whether you're sober as a priest or drunk as a skunk. She didn't get how reckless she was being by driving and refused not to drive despite me saying i would pay for her taxi home and for her taxi back to the car. Tried to take the keys, she slapped my hand and got in the car, i stood in front of it. She drove in to me. Gently of course, nothing that could hurt me. Debate was ongoing. She ended up giving me the ultimatum, get in the car or she is driving home. I stared at her furiously and she drove home. Couldn't ****ing believe it.

I don't get angry at people, but i was absolutely fuming. Phone was out of battery so had to find a public phone. Found one, yelled my ****ing lungs out at her. She was laughing, apparently because she had never seen me serious about anything before (or so she says) and found it amusing. I hung up on her. Eventually she sent me an sms when i got home apologising and saying she knows i am right but that she is a piece of work and she knows it. I didn't accept it, which may have been a bad move, because it was obvious from the wording in her apology that she still doesn't get how ****ing stupid a thing it is to do.

I didn't abuse her in my reply, but i did say that I'm not the one she should be sorry to and whatnot, went through it logically, and ended the message with saying i was sorry too, but only because she just doesn't get it and i'm extremely disappointed.

Next time we met i was still angry and told her so. She said she didn't want to hear it and that she didn't do anything to me by driving home so i shouldn't even be angry in her eyes. I told her if she ever does it again and i find out about it then i'm never talking to her again.

Now here's the question:

Is she the kind of person who appreciates a man who will apologise for possibly going over the top? Or should i stand my ground and continue to be a stubborn mother****er about this?

thoughts - perhaps i should apologise for not accepting her apology but not for anything else?

I don't know.

Having written this, it's been clarifying to me. i am leaning toward not apologising, but i have noticed a definite cooling of the relationship after this incident. I don't know if apologising for my extreme reaction (but not retracting anything i said) will help. ****ing judgement call i can't make. So come on DJs, throw some good advice to an inexperienced young 'un.

 

[trv26]

Apologise.

Say you still think she was wrong, but at the same time that you did not have any right to force her to do anything against her wish. And that if you are in the same situation again, that you would leave her to her own devices.

 

[yoimjamie]

And that if you are in the same situation again, that you would leave her to her own devices

but i wouldn't. I absolutely cannot abide drink driving, and i am not going to give up that principle for any girl. I'm not going to physically force her to do anything, that's ****ed up. But i will do **** like take keys if i can. Just nothing imposing on her physical freedom.

 

[slickaz]

women like that will view a man based on his reaction from the first time it happens.

if you apologize now, she'll know how to get you to apologize.

never apologize unless you know you did wrong.
women appreciate that.

i see your point, but i see hers also in this issue.
neither was wrong.
however, you should not have pushed it that far unless shes your LTR.
if shes a chic you've been with 2 weeks (for eg) and she wants to drive.
you tell her once and give her a good explanation.
then let her make her choices.
she'll know then that you're the kind of guy that gives good advice but not all the time..
remember, empty vessels make the most noise.

you wanna come across as someone that cares, but only for people that care for themselves. you dont have time to worry about 22yr olds acting 3.

you dont need to argue, and yell at her over the phone. because she laughed at it. i know people only laugh at others that are yelling at them only when they know they have an advantage.

so keep in mind.

dont apologize, let it slide.
next time..dont over do the advise thing and let her chose.
when ur in an LTR you can do all the drama..

besides...she should be the one yelling at you to be safe mate..not the other way around

 

[yoimjamie]

good advice

not sure i can exactly follow it. as mentioned, i am a stubborn mother****er.

but anyway, thanks for that. It is very good advice for what to do next time, with the next girl...

but as for this one, what is my course of action? Just not bring it up again? im aware that this issue is a lingering one that isn't going to fade. If i ignore it, it might just get set in stone. Should i bring it up again and explain **** or ... ?

 

[yoimjamie]

double post ftl

who cares

thoughts - perhaps i should apologise for not accepting her apology but not for anything else?

thoughts on this? is it weak to apologise for going off my rocker, but then explaining how passionate i am about drink driving, which is why i went so nuts? I really was quite furious. For a long time too, which is very very rare.

perhaps i could say that i will try to avoid going so nuts? good ideas, bad?

I feel that i should make her feel like i'm not a bomb liable to go off at any moment, because i am not. but that i'm still extremely firm on **** like this that i find very important.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Dude, she knew exactly what she was doing and was aware of the consequences and didnt need you to tell her such. Yelling at her like a child was a little overboard. People KNOW they shouldnt drink and drive, but since theyve done it before they continue to do it. You tried to stop her but couldnt, that doesnt mean you should go ape sh*t and freak out. You should apologize for going crazy and bugging out. Also, youre a retard if you think she doesnt understand drinking and driving is a bad move. You dont control what people do, f*cking chill.

 

[yoimjamie]

yeah, fair call, which is where the stubborn comes in. I'll give that a try and let you know how it goes.

 

[yoimjamie]

thanks for the kick up the arse. Makes sense.

I apologised, she said she hadn't been worried about it but appreciated it, she also re-iterated that it was a stupid thing she did, to which i replied it was still her decision and i didn't respect it.

The atmosphere became immediately nicer, she couldn't stop chatting to me after that. Thanks fellas

 

[Darth]

Yet, I think you were right in the first place. So the fact that you got angry at this stupid behavior probably means she respects you more now. Which is good.

 

[trv26]

Hey, good to hear.

So if you were to end up in a similar situation again with that girl. How do you think you are going to respond?

 

[yoimjamie]

next time..dont over do the advise thing and let her chose.

i should do that.

Definitely not going overboard again. I'm stubborn, but i'm (usually) not an angry guy. I can control that, i know. She knows how i feel. I can let her do as she chooses, she can deal with the guilt of having done something stupid again. It's the best option. but...

if she died or something i would feel eternally guilty that i didn't do more. That's the problem. I know it wouldn't be my fault, but there is always the "what if he/she dies?" issue. So what do you do: let them drive and possibly ruin their career or die, etc... or be a jerk and take the keys?

It's a tough call. I won't blow up again. But i shouldn't try to force my decision on her either. That's going to be the hard part not to do. It makes more sense in a "tough love" way, but there's also the possibility of a tragedy occuring that could have been prevented by being more of a complete c*nt.

Thoughts on this, people? It may come up again some time.

 

[trv26]

Have you considered talking to her about your "what if I hadnt made an effort, and you died" argument? Perhaps now she is sober she'll be more understanding towards your oint of view(as there seems to be). You should trying broaching the question of what she'd like you to do if the situation is repeated. Accept whatever choice she makes.

Your problem is you care too much, which makes you appear weak (hence the laughing).

However just like you, I'd rather appear weak than...

 

[Darth]

If it happens again, take the keys. She'll understand when she's sober, and if she doesn't, she's just stupid.

You acted like the responsible man here. I wouldn't have even apologized for "not respecting her decision." It was a drunken decision. After she admitted it was a stupid decision, you should have agreed with her and said you only got angry because you care about her (IMO).

Honestly from what you described you sound like my dad. And my dad is the MAN

 

[yoimjamie]

Have you considered talking to her about your "what if I hadnt made an effort, and you died" argument? Perhaps now she is sober she'll be more understanding towards your oint of view

i said that word for word at the time, it didn't work. i am not going to say it again, i will just be chewing on last week's bone.

I am reluctant to bring it up again now that the matter has been discussed and the conversation has finished. I am sure she doesnt want me doing the same ****. And i dont want to ask her what she wants me to do. I want to do what i want to do. But im not going to go nuts. I'll just lay the subtle guilt trap, i think, without looking like i'm playing games or anything. It's not even a guilt trap, it's just letting her go after telling her she's dumb if she does and then letting her reflect on it when she's sober.

Your problem is you care too much, which makes you appear weak (hence the laughing).

Yeah, i do care too much, need to lay off that. Anyone got any mental tricks? I've tried lying to myself that i didn't care at all before, it worked too well and I actually didn't any more. Can't seem to turn off the care but keep the desire.

 

[loving]

Its all summed up in the first line though you can read the rest of the song for clarification

"Street Life"

Yo, sometimes you have to just be a man and apologize to your woman, ya star

The amount of ting whe you put her through
Rock this!

When a girl cry cause of you
Not one ting you can say or do
Make any man go change his mind
No matter what you wanna do
First you find it hard to speak (true)
Girl straight out make a brother weak
Killing me softly every time
And all that I can be

[Chorus:]
On the street just ballin
Girls have been callin
Drop top fallin
Brothers keep rollin
Livin nothing but a street life (street life)
[Repeat]

For all the troubles I brought ya
For all the time that you cried
Baby for that I apologize (apologize)
For all the time that I've hurt ya
For bringing tears to your eye
Baby for that I apologize (apologize)
Well I can see it in your eyes
No telling you no lies
Girl I did you wrong
You'll never find another guy
So this is what we got to do
Make a family cause it's true
Girl you are a part of me
My heart belongs to you
Cause I can see it in your eyes
No telling you no lies
Girl I did you wrong
You'll never find another guy
This is what we got to do
Make a family cause it's true
Girl you are a part of me
My heart belongs to you now

[Chorus:]
On the street just ballin
Girls have been callin
Drop top fallin
Brothers keep rollin
Livin nothing but a street life (street life)
[Repeat]

Do you understand the feeling when I'm feeling
When I tell you how I'm feeling
When I'm feeling that way
Can't get over how you make everything better girl
When you are around me you bring joy to my day
Don't know what I will do without you in my life
I don't give a damn about what people wanna say
All I'm saying that (what)
This is where I'm at (at)
And I'd do anything to make you stay

[Chorus:]
On the street just ballin
Girls have been callin
Drop top fallin
Brothers keep rollin
Livin nothing but a street life (street life)
[Repeat]

Unless she did something you genuinely thought was wrong, in which case you should apologize because sorry is just a stupid word, then teach her a lesson about what she did.

 

[yoimjamie]

After she admitted it was a stupid decision, you should have agreed with her and said you only got angry because you care about her

you pretty much repeated the conversation verbatim.

her: "it was stupid"
me: "yes i know it was stupid but i didn't need to yell at you like you're a 3 year old"

i didn't mention anything to do with caring about her, she actually brought up "thanks for caring" of her own accord

 

[ready123]

Dude, your girl is pretty reckless. that whole piece of work thing means she's proud of herself that she was able to drunk drive under pressure by her man?

that's pretty immature and irresponsible. I wouldn't have apologized neither

and trv, it's drunk driving dude. one stupid mistake and you mess up a lot of peoples' lives. you're supposed to care about that sht, as opposed to being in gaming mode 24/7 and worrying about looking weak, that sht is stupid

next time, take the keys, let her throw a tantrum and cry or wahtever, it's for her own good

 

[yoimjamie]

Dude, your girl is pretty reckless. that whole piece of work thing means she's proud of herself that she was able to drunk drive under pressure by her man?

she has a history of recklessness. The "piece of work" remark was referring to that history. She means she has issues and knows it.

Also this is still the very early stages. Lots of chemistry, it's going very well, or it was up until this argument. I was glad i was willing to potentially throw away a few weeks of progress by sticking to my principles, to be honest. I didn't care if i had completely blown it or not.