Tips to maintain frame?

[TheNewStyle123]

I matched with this Brazilian chick on Tinder this past Friday. We messaged back and forth and I got her number. After some banter via texting we were planning on meeting up Sunday. I offered for her to come over to my place as I was planning on making some food that day anyways and we could meet up and hang out. I said "Well, if you would like you can come to my place for late lunch or dinner? I planned on cooking anyways. Just an idea, no pressure if not it would be fun to meet you." I know that's really forward - but the day before I did the same thing with another chick and she came over and we f!cked... plus it is Tinder haha.

Anyways, she never responded to this response. Probably a little put off by my forwardness. The next day I texted her "Olá S____. I hope you didn't my invitation yesterday as being too forward. If you're free this Wednesday night we should get a drink at _____."

Later that day to my surprised she responded and continued to text me throughout the night. However, she said "I don't think I can go out this Wednesday, I'm usually busy on weekdays." Much later in the conversation after more flirting I said "Hey, let's get coffee this Saturday afternoon." To which she said "Maybe we can plan something on Saturday. If I don't have to work." After that we just cont. to text a little bit and I never brought it up again.

Do you fellas think I have already blown my shot? I already know it's a long time to wait to go on a first date and the more time that passes the lower her IL will be. Even as I write this I can still see parts of my former beta self in it (trying to get better at this thanks to TRM and you guys on sosuave). My plan is to make plans with another girl this Saturday afternoon (plus I already have a girl coming over Saturday night too for a second date), and text this Brazilian girl later in the week to confirm if we are on for Saturday or not. If she makes another excuse, or says she can't, then no problem, I already have a Saturday day and night date lined up.

Thanks boys.

 

[derby1]

yes shes rinsing you of non sexual attention. (youtube patrice O neal women are time hoes)

and point number 2 you recoiled, your balls were on the table and you put your balls away. make sense?

you were playing to win, not outcome independent

 

[Lookatu]

I said "Well, if you would like you can come to my place for late lunch or dinner? I planned on cooking anyways. Just an idea, no pressure if not it would be fun to meet you." << BAD delivery and too beta and not strong enough.

Probably a little put off by my forwardness. The next day I texted her "Olá S____. I hope you didn't my invitation yesterday as being too forward. If you're free this Wednesday night we should get a drink at _____." << You dug a hole further by doing this.

Later that day to my surprised she responded and continued to text me throughout the night. However, she said "I don't think I can go out this Wednesday, I'm usually busy on weekdays." Much later in the conversation after more flirting I said "Hey, let's get coffee this Saturday afternoon." To which she said "Maybe we can plan something on Saturday. If I don't have to work." After that we just cont. to text a little bit and I never brought it up again. << At this point, she has already lost interest yet you worked too hard on trying to salvage it.

The ball is in her court. You've suggested multiple meeting times which she declined. Let her inititate if she's interested.

Here's my take:
Highlighted above.

You were too forward which turned her off but you continued to try to make excuses or ackowledge being too forward. You need to learn to have a IDGAF and either they jump on or jump off attitude. You shouldn't care THAT much on what she thinks considering you never met. She's just a spec of dust at this point.

Once you make a girl feel a certain way, it's hard for her to let that go. So my take is from the minute you suggested meeting up at your place then conveying you might've been in the wrong by suggesting that, lowered her interest and any desire she had of you even more. Once the damage is done, it's usually hard to bounce back from. I'd chalk it up to a learning lesson and move on.

Bottom Line: Never be apologetic on anything you didn't do wrong, double down, be ruthless for anyone you never met, don't feel like you need to give excuses to anyone.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Here's my take:
Highlighted above.

You were too forward which turned her off but you continued to try to make excuses or ackowledge being too forward. You need to learn to have a IDGAF and either they jump on or jump off attitude. You shouldn't care THAT much on what she thinks considering you never met. She's just a spec of dust at this point.

Once you make a girl feel a certain way, it's hard for her to let that go. So my take is from the minute you suggested meeting up at your place then conveying you might've been in the wrong by suggesting that, lowered her interest and any desire she had of you even more. Once the damage is done, it's usually hard to bounce back from. I'd chalk it up to a learning lesson and move on.

Bottom Line: Never be apologetic on anything you didn't do wrong, double down, be ruthless for anyone you never met, don't feel like you need to give excuses to anyone.

GREAT advice man. I need to approach this how I was approaching other girls - unapologetic, shameless, and audacious. I beta'd myself because she was a cute Brazilian (weakness...). I am not going to text this girl again. If she reaches out, we'll see what happens. Thanks buddy.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

yes shes rinsing you of non sexual attention. (youtube patrice O neal women are time hoes)

and point number 2 you recoiled, your balls were on the table and you put your balls away. make sense?

you were playing to win, not outcome independent

Hahaha I know the exact skit. Love Patrice. Thanks buddy.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

First, you're asking two different things: About frame, and about technical questions regarding your texts.

Your texts started poorly and got progressively better, but by then it was too late.

The first is too couched on her saying yes. The second has an unnecessary callback to that and an indication that you're afraid to scare her away. The third, in tone anyway, is how you should have started. "Hey, I'm cooking on Sunday, come on over." Maybe mention what you're cooking but that's all you need to say.

Then in the second, no need to apologize (you didn't say "sorry" but the effect is the same). And lose the "if" clause. Just say, "I'm headed to Ralph's Brew Pub, stop by and join me for a drink."

Her final response tells you all you need to know: She already has a built in excuse, and is hoping she won't have to actually say no when you follow up.

So these are the little details I'd work on if I were you. How this works into the much greater subject of frame is that you are living your life with or without her. "I'm cooking..." "I'm going to have a drink on Wednesday." But be advised that owning your frame isn't just a semantic thing, you have to start living it, and that might take some time to adjust. Keep swinging at the plate, but read, absorb, ask for help. The good thing is with texts you can stop yourself before sending a bad one. There's no pressure on YOU.

Thanks buddy, that's really helpful. Good point about the "built in" excuse too. I agree, from the get-go a better text would have been something to the effect of "here's what I am doing on this day at this time, join if you are free." If she reaches out again, I will go with that. But I won't be initiating any more texts.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are working too hard and asking too many times. It makes you seem like you don't have any other options, which you do but she doesn't know that at this point.

Her perception is what counts and you are making it appear to her that you have none.

Just let that one slide and chalk it up to the game. Maybe try circling back in a few weeks.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

You are working too hard and asking too many times. It makes you seem like you don't have any other options, which you do but she doesn't know that at this point.

Her perception is what counts and you are making it appear to her that you have none.

Just let that one slide and chalk it up to the game. Maybe try circling back in a few weeks.

Good point man. There is definitely value in playing the covert vs. overt game, but as you said, she doesn't know I have any other options right now because I do seem too needy and available. Going to put this one to rest and enjoy my other dates this week and weekend!

 

[rjc149]

I may be going against the grain here but it's really not smooth and calibrated to invite a stranger online over to your place for a date. That's 90% guaranteed to be either a 'no' or a flake. It worked for you the night before, but broken clocks still tell the correct time twice a day.

"Well, if you would like you can come to my place for late lunch or dinner? I planned on cooking anyways. Just an idea, no pressure if not it would be fun to meet you."

Neediness in italics. You're basically apologizing, and then almost pleading to be liked. Very subservient and approval-seeking.

Also, "no pressure" = pressure. Don't couch any invitation with "if not no worries" or "no pressure." That's placing implicit expectation. You're inviting her to something, so of course you are placing some social pressure on her to comply. Don't try to hide that fact with words. That's ulterior. It's also unconfident -- like you're prepared for her to decline.

The jury's out on using emojis. My take, they can be used if calibrated to the interaction, for instance, if she's using a lot of emojis, or if you end an interaction with a single emoji to signal that the conversation is now over. Generally speaking, emojis are very youthful and girly, so be judicious with them.

"Anyways, she never responded to this response. Probably a little put off by my forwardness."

Forwardness, yes, and also the neediness.

"Olá S____. I hope you didn't my invitation yesterday as being too forward. If you're free this Wednesday night we should get a drink at _____."

Again, neediness in italics. More apologizing and approval-seeking.

Trying to build fake rapport with a stranger by paying homage to her nationality is also uncalibrated and approval-seeking. This is like beta males who learn Mandarin just to impress a Chinese girl they want to talk to. It's pedestalizing. You've never met this girl, let alone know a thing about her, let alone have a real connection to her -- so she should just be another girl to you, not a Brazilian girl. She's just another girl. She could be a self-centered, narcissistic liar for all you know. She could be a complete fvcking lowlife. And I assure you, her diarrhea stinks after eating Thai food. So open with "Hey" like you would any other girl. She shouldn't impress you yet.

Also, there's way too much communicating going on. There's no mystery or tension. You're too available to her, too eager to be in her life, too in need of her attention and validation.

Her: Maybe we can plan for Saturday, if I don't have work.
You: Sure, let me know.

Then that's it. Disappear. Don't follow up or confirm. If she doesn't re-engage, she's done.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

I may be going against the grain here but it's really not smooth and calibrated to invite a stranger online over to your place for a date. That's 90% guaranteed to be either a 'no' or a flake. It worked for you the night before, but broken clocks still tell the correct time twice a day.

"Well, if you would like you can come to my place for late lunch or dinner? I planned on cooking anyways. Just an idea, no pressure if not it would be fun to meet you."

Neediness in italics. You're basically apologizing, and then almost pleading to be liked. Very subservient and approval-seeking.

Also, "no pressure" = pressure. Don't couch any invitation with "if not no worries" or "no pressure." That's placing implicit expectation. You're inviting her to something, so of course you are placing some social pressure on her to comply. Don't try to hide that fact with words. That's ulterior. It's also unconfident -- like you're prepared for her to decline.

The jury's out on using emojis. My take, they can be used if calibrated to the interaction, for instance, if she's using a lot of emojis, or if you end an interaction with a single emoji to signal that the conversation is now over. Generally speaking, emojis are very youthful and girly, so be judicious with them.

"Anyways, she never responded to this response. Probably a little put off by my forwardness."

Forwardness, yes, and also the neediness.

"Olá S____. I hope you didn't my invitation yesterday as being too forward. If you're free this Wednesday night we should get a drink at _____."

Again, neediness in italics. More apologizing and approval-seeking.

Trying to build fake rapport with a stranger by paying homage to her nationality is also uncalibrated and approval-seeking. This is like beta males who learn Mandarin just to impress a Chinese girl they want to talk to. It's pedestalizing. You've never met this girl, let alone know a thing about her, let alone have a real connection to her -- so she should just be another girl to you, not a Brazilian girl. She's just another girl. She could be a self-centered, narcissistic liar for all you know. She could be a complete fvcking lowlife. And I assure you, her diarrhea stinks after eating Thai food. So open with "Hey" like you would any other girl. She shouldn't impress you yet.

Also, there's way too much communicating going on. There's no mystery or tension. You're too available to her, too eager to be in her life, too in need of her attention and validation.

Her: Maybe we can plan for Saturday, if I don't have work.
You: Sure, let me know.

Then that's it. Disappear. Don't follow up or confirm. If she doesn't re-engage, she's done.

Great advice man thank you. I totally see what you mean about the lack of mystery or tension, as well as making myself too available. Another good trial/error lesson for me. I appreciate it!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I may be going against the grain here but it's really not smooth and calibrated to invite a stranger online over to your place for a date. That's 90% guaranteed to be either a 'no' or a flake. It worked for you the night before, but broken clocks still tell the correct time twice a day.

"Well, if you would like you can come to my place for late lunch or dinner? I planned on cooking anyways. Just an idea, no pressure if not it would be fun to meet you."

Neediness in italics. You're basically apologizing, and then almost pleading to be liked. Very subservient and approval-seeking.

Also, "no pressure" = pressure. Don't couch any invitation with "if not no worries" or "no pressure." That's placing implicit expectation. You're inviting her to something, so of course you are placing some social pressure on her to comply. Don't try to hide that fact with words. That's ulterior. It's also unconfident -- like you're prepared for her to decline.

The jury's out on using emojis. My take, they can be used if calibrated to the interaction, for instance, if she's using a lot of emojis, or if you end an interaction with a single emoji to signal that the conversation is now over. Generally speaking, emojis are very youthful and girly, so be judicious with them.

"Anyways, she never responded to this response. Probably a little put off by my forwardness."

Forwardness, yes, and also the neediness.

"Olá S____. I hope you didn't my invitation yesterday as being too forward. If you're free this Wednesday night we should get a drink at _____."

Again, neediness in italics. More apologizing and approval-seeking.

Trying to build fake rapport with a stranger by paying homage to her nationality is also uncalibrated and approval-seeking. This is like beta males who learn Mandarin just to impress a Chinese girl they want to talk to. It's pedestalizing. You've never met this girl, let alone know a thing about her, let alone have a real connection to her -- so she should just be another girl to you, not a Brazilian girl. She's just another girl. She could be a self-centered, narcissistic liar for all you know. She could be a complete fvcking lowlife. And I assure you, her diarrhea stinks after eating Thai food. So open with "Hey" like you would any other girl. She shouldn't impress you yet.

Also, there's way too much communicating going on. There's no mystery or tension. You're too available to her, too eager to be in her life, too in need of her attention and validation.

Her: Maybe we can plan for Saturday, if I don't have work.
You: Sure, let me know.

Then that's it. Disappear. Don't follow up or confirm. If she doesn't re-engage, she's done.

I've gotten this to work when everything was shut down initially during the middle of the first lockdown but it was after talking with them on the phone a few times over the course of a week or two.

It can work but you need to spend more time making them comfortable and letting them get to know you so that it doesn't "feel" like a first date when they come over.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

I've gotten this to work when everything was shut down initially during the middle of the first lockdown but it was after talking with them on the phone a few times over the course of a week or two.

It can work but you need to spend more time making them comfortable and letting them get to know you so that it doesn't "feel" like a first date when they come over.

Good idea man. I don't know why, I haven't really been taking advantage of calling/facetiming girls first to increase their comfort level. I'll have to try this.

 

[Lookatu]

Good idea man. I don't know why, I haven't really been taking advantage of calling/facetiming girls first to increase their comfort level. I'll have to try this.

To some girls, facetiming is considered a "date" to them. LOL You can thank apps like Bumble that promoted these virtual dates during the pandemic and also brainwashed some of these girls. Plus you can see how they really look outside of the doctored pics they have online and not waste time getting bait and switched.

If these same girls think of facetiming is the same as an actual date and they don't usually put out until the 3rd date, you do the math.
2 FT dates + 1 in person date at your place = possibility to bang.

I personally don't like to FT and haven't but I can see this angle working for some too.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

To some girls, facetiming is considered a "date" to them. LOL You can thank apps like Bumble that promoted these virtual dates during the pandemic and also brainwashed some of these girls. Plus you can see how they really look outside of the doctored pics they have online and not waste time getting bait and switched.

If these same girls think of facetiming is the same as an actual date and they don't usually put out until the 3rd date, you do the math.
2 FT dates + 1 in person date at your place = possibility to bang.

I personally don't like to FT and haven't but I can see this angle working for some too.

Holy sh!t dude that's mind blowing. I need to take advantage of this. I would have assumed facetiming would be more of a beta move since you don't actually get to see the girl in person, initiate kino, etc., but you make a really great argument for why it could be a useful tool... I'm definitely utilizing this.

 

[diogenes84]

GREAT advice man. I need to approach this how I was approaching other girls - unapologetic, shameless, and audacious. I beta'd myself because she was a cute Brazilian (weakness...). I am not going to text this girl again. If she reaches out, we'll see what happens. Thanks buddy.

exactly. If you didnt blow it you WILL know because sometimes they will just text you again the next time they are ovulating. sounds crazy but often when you are thinking about answering, or reaching out just waiting a few more days makes them "break" earlier and they will contact you first IF they have high IL giving you the frame.

if low IL... **** it anyway