Time article on marriage

[backbreaker]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2031962,00.html

Very good read

 

[Warrior74]

Although she is not of royal blood, she stands to become the first English Queen with a university degree, so in one fundamental way, theirs is a union of equals.

WHAT?

"About 21% of American children will see at least two live-in partners of their mothers by the time they're 15," says Cherlin. "And an additional 8% will see three or more."

WHAT?

Could living together become respected and widespread enough that it challenged the favored-nation state of marriage? The American Law Institute has recommended extending some of the rights spouses have to cohabiting partners. But cohabitation has not yet proved to be a robust enough substitute for most Americans to believe they can build a family on it.

AH! Pretty sneaky sis.

 

[zekko]

The American Law Institute has recommended extending some of the rights spouses have to cohabiting partners.

Since I've lived with my girlfriend for the past eight years, that would put me in a sticky situation. If this looms on the horizon, what shoud I do, kick her out?

I've planned on marrying her eventually most likely, as I get older, just to make sure she wouldn't have to pay estate taxes and such if I die. But if and or when this happens I wanted it to be on my terms. Is there such a thing similar to a pre-nup for those who cohabitate?

Oh, and by the way, a big F U to the American Law Institute.

 

[squirrels]

Since I've lived with my girlfriend for the past eight years...

I find it hard to believe that if she's been living with you for 8 years that you could just "clean split" if it came to that.

 

[synergy1]

Laws passed by lawyers so they can create more business for themselves. All it comes down to are fewer and fewer rights for people and more control; control that is never relinquished once it is put into law. All it will do is incentivise couples (men too) to 'live' with someone of higher status, than split w/ their fair share. Again, its more of a push towards lack of responsibility which this country holds near and dear to its heart.

I keep thinking of the tom Cruise movie where they punish the crime before it is committed. Maybe cohabitation will come to that - if you have probable cause you might move in, she (he) is entitled to half.

the USA needs an enema of massive proportions.

 

[Kailex]

Why is everyone so negative about this???

If anything... THANK YOU American Law Institute.
If this is what we need to keep people from living with their girlfriends (Sorry, Zeek :woo: )... then so be it.

Right now, no one should be breaking the Iron Rule of Tomassi.
If anything, if this were to pass, just do it for a certain age group (40 and under?). I know it's unrealistic, but some states already recognize cohabiting as "marriage" which is bull.

But maybe if this were official, it'd give men a lot MORE leeway to NOT move in with someone unless they were absolutely sure. If anything, it'd really up the incentive for me to STAY in my OWN apartment. Some people live together just to avoid the certificate, but who are we kidding... it's already a marriage in it's own, specially if you are 25 and living together.

Maybe my glass is half full because I see it as a good thing and it doesn't really affect me.

 

[Warrior74]

Why is everyone so negative about this???

If anything... THANK YOU American Law Institute.
If this is what we need to keep people from living with their girlfriends (Sorry, Zeek :woo: )... then so be it.

Right now, no one should be breaking the Iron Rule of Tomassi.
If anything, if this were to pass, just do it for a certain age group (40 and under?). I know it's unrealistic, but some states already recognize cohabiting as "marriage" which is bull.

But maybe if this were official, it'd give men a lot MORE leeway to NOT move in with someone unless they were absolutely sure. If anything, it'd really up the incentive for me to STAY in my OWN apartment. Some people live together just to avoid the certificate, but who are we kidding... it's already a marriage in it's own, specially if you are 25 and living together.

Maybe my glass is half full because I see it as a good thing and it doesn't really affect me.

No you're right. But for the poor slobs out there who are, they are gonna get a rude awakening when she file$ for divorce because she now has certain "right$" from cohabitation. That's the road this is going down.

 

[squirrels]

No you're right. But for the poor slobs out there who are, they are gonna get a rude awakening when she file$ for divorce because she now has certain "right$" from cohabitation. That's the road this is going down.

Once you "cohabitate", you are essentially married anyway.

My question would be what happens with platonic opposite-gender roommates. Is it only if you sleep in the same bed? How would you prove that?

And if you're a guy with a guy roommate in a state that allows gay marriage??

There needs to be a legal definition of what constitutes a "cohabitating couple".

 

[backbreaker]

I'm just focused on the reality that, the marriage laws are ****ed up

I don't talk about my actual blood family much, but my step daddy, my mom's husband (They got back together), air force 20 years, retirement, gets to live a happy life right? wrong. wife of 10 years, fell out of love, cheated on him, gets 1 the kid, and because she won't marry the guy she is ****ing, she gets 2. alimony as well plus child support. she sits at home all day ****ing her new man while my step dad has to work at union pacific just ot maintain his lifestyle. now, he's not broke, but still, he should be retired now, instead he's working, funding his life and his ex wife's, for nothing he did wrong.


this goes beyond AFC and DJ. This is FVCKED up.

 

[squirrels]

Marriage as an institution is f**ked up, a result of the "me-first" generation with no sense of personal responsibility.

95%+ of people who get married in the 21st century have no business doing so.

 

[Nutz]

Once you "cohabitate", you are essentially married anyway.

My question would be what happens with platonic opposite-gender roommates. Is it only if you sleep in the same bed? How would you prove that?

And if you're a guy with a guy roommate in a state that allows gay marriage??

There needs to be a legal definition of what constitutes a "cohabitating couple".

Many states already do have a clause for that. Basically you have to present yourself as a couple and others have to assume, for all intents and purposes, you're a committed relationship similar to that to being married. So if you have a roommate then you're fine, but if you're in a romantic relationship and you live with the gf then you could in fact end up married even if you didn't want to be.

 

[zekko]

If this is what we need to keep people from living with their girlfriends (Sorry, Zeek )... then so be it.

How the heck am I hurting you by living with my girlfriend?

Right now, no one should be breaking the Iron Rule of Tomassi.

I've discussed this issue with Rollo before, and he has admitted I am probably an exception to his rule. His rule is meant for young, naive, inexperienced fellows who fall under the charms of some young girl and get entangled into her life unknowingly, without getting out there and experiencing his options.
At my advanced age, I pretty much know what I want.

If anything, if this were to pass, just do it for a certain age group (40 and under?).

NO!
My entire reason for cohabitating is I had already been divorced and thus didn't want to risk all my assets again, even though I have a great relationship with this girl. My state does not recognize cohabitating as a common law marriage.

Synergy1 has this correct, this is all about lawyers wanting to create business for themselves.

Like Backbreaker says, the marriage laws in this country are BS. And yet, my fellow SoSuavers want to take these pro-feminine, anti-male laws and extend them to guys like me who have chosen to avoid marriage and cohabitate?
WTF?
Thanks for the stab in the back, guys.

 

[Someone Much cooler]

This is extremely scary.

 

[Kailex]

Zeek, you read my post wrong. I'm not trying to single you out.
I'm trying to point you out as the exception. That's my whole point.

You have the experience and judgment to make such a decision.

What I'm debating is for all the younger males who are 23 and had only 2 girls before the one they are marrying and THEN decide to move in with that 3rd one.

It's not meant as a stab towards you, but a stab towards the younger people who don't have the sound judgment to wait.

And yes, there are exceptions to every rule... which is why I apologized to you, because I DIDN'T want it to seem like I was throwing you in with the rest of the crowd.

 

[Warrior74]

Many states already do have a clause for that. Basically you have to present yourself as a couple and others have to assume, for all intents and purposes, you're a committed relationship similar to that to being married. So if you have a roommate then you're fine, but if you're in a romantic relationship and you live with the gf then you could in fact end up married even if you didn't want to be.

No only as a couple but as a married couple in my state. A friend of mine went through a divorce because he introduced her to everyone as his "wife". Me, I introduced my girl as my girlfriend. She had no legal grounds for anything. I think the long term goal is to grant those legal ground regardless of representation. If you play house, you have to give up half of it.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear All,
Whatever happened to a Mans rights to protect his assets?All these busy bodies and self serving mongrels in amongst other organisations the American Legal Society...And most of these crazy Laws are supposedly to protect us from ourselves!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

This article is just another log on the fire.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4

NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren't married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.

You are utterly powerless in this situation. NEVER buy a home with a girlfriend, NEVER sign a rental lease with a girlfriend. NEVER agree to move into her home and absolutely NEVER move a woman into your own established living arrangement. I'm adamantly opposed to the "shacking up" dynamic, it is a trap that far too many men allow themselves to fall into. My fervor agianst this isn't based on some moral issue, it it simple pragmatism. If you live with a woman you may as well be married because upon doing so every liability and accountability of marriage is then in effect. You not only lose any freedom of annonymity you commit to, legally, being responsible for the continuation of your living arrangements regardless of how your relationship decays.

I should also emphasize the point that when you commit (and it is a financial committment) to cohabiting with a GF you will notice a marked decrease in her sexual availability and desire, trust me on this. All of that competitive anxiety and it's resulting sexual tension that made your single sex life so great is removed from her shoulders and she can comfortably relax in the knowledge that she is your ONLY source of sexual intimacy. Putting your name on that lease with her (even if it's just your name) is akin to signing an insurance polcy for her - "I the undersigned promise not to ƒuck any woman but this girl for a one year term." She thinks, "if he wasn't serious about me, he wouldn't have signed the lease." Now all of that impetus and energy that made having marathon sex with you an outright necessity is relaxed. She controls the frame and she's got it in writing that it is for at least a year.

Just don't do it. Relationships last best when you spin more plates or at the very least keep each other at arm's distance.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

There are cohabitation agreements and as far as I can tell do cover assets;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohabitation_agreement

If you are going to do one get a lawyers advice for your state. I wouldn't do one of those generic ones you can purchase off the internet.

 

[vatoloco]

There are cohabitation agreements and as far as I can tell do cover assets;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohabitation_agreement

If you are going to do one get a lawyers advice for your state. I wouldn't do one of those generic ones you can purchase off the internet.

This is exactly my plan.

 

[zekko]

Rollo, note that nowhere in your Iron Rule does it make any argument that cohabitating is any worse than getting married. Every disadvantage that you list for living together is also a disadvantage for being married.

If you live with a woman you may as well be married because upon doing so every liability and accountability of marriage is then in effect.

I don't agree with this. My house, my accounts, everything is in my name. She has her own stuff. On Census papers I list her as "roommate". We have no common law marriage in my state. I firmly believe that if we split up tomorrow, she would have no claim on any of my assets. But I have no doubt that the lawyers and the government will continue their march to impinge upon our freedoms and control more and more of our lives.

I live with my girl because I want to. I like living with her. Obviously, after eight years, I am committed to her. If it had not been for the experience of my first marriage failing, I would probably be married to her today.

My question would be what happens with platonic opposite-gender roommates. Is it only if you sleep in the same bed? How would you prove that?

And if you're a guy with a guy roommate in a state that allows gay marriage??

There needs to be a legal definition of what constitutes a "cohabitating couple".

This just shows why pushing for these laws is a bad idea. Where do you draw the line?

It's not meant as a stab towards you, but a stab towards the younger people who don't have the sound judgment to wait.

Okay, Kailex, I hear what you're saying.
But honestly, sometimes kids will be kids, won't they?
It's just like what a lot of people say: If I wait until I'm READY to have kids, I'll never have any.
Sometimes nature steps in and takes its course.