Though she might not give, take what isn’t given. (not safe for anyone)

[Luthor Rex]

I thought it best that I post this in the Mature Man section because of the topic. Hopefully this can be discussed civilly even though this topic will no doubt be controversial. I warn you now this goes to a very dark place of the human mind, TURN BACK NOW IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED. If you do read this and post, please be sure to read carefully and not just go off. Check the details and make sure you really understand what is being said because I will be spitting hairs.

I am posting this to stimulate discussion about a topic I've never really seen talked about before, and this is the only place I know that seems to be able to handle the more... un-tame... parts of the human mind. This also seems to be a place that will take honesty over any kind of PC bullsh!t.


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Though she might not give, take what isn’t given.
Perhaps she’ll struggle, and then say ‘you’re wicked’:
struggling she still wants, herself, to be conquered.
Only, take care her lips aren’t bruised by snatching,
and that she can’t complain that you were harsh.
Who takes a kiss, and doesn’t take the rest,
deserves to lose all that were granted too.
How much short of your wish are you after that kiss?
Ah me, that was boorishness stopped you not modesty.
Though you call it force: it’s force that pleases girls: what delights
is often to have given what they wanted, against their will.
She who is taken in love’s sudden onslaught
is pleased, and finds wickedness is a tribute.
And she who might have been forced, and escapes unscathed,
will be saddened, though her face pretends delight.

-- From Ovid's "The Art of Love" published around 1 A.D. (yes, the year "1")

Well... what can I say besides: it works.

I struck on the fact that Ovid's formula here works by accident long before I ever read the poem. It happened a long time ago when I was at a young lady's house and she was worried her parents would catch us making out. She kept saying "no" and "stop". Now before you think I am a complete barbarian, I was doing this jokingly, our clothes were on, and I was only kissing her neck so even if her parents did catch us it wouldn't be a big deal. Anyhow I kept kissing her and at some point she said "no" but her voice turned to butter. It was a 'no' that feminists hate because it did mean yes, or at least it meant 'not right now, come back later'. lol

There is also a separate experience with a married woman who words I will never forget to me: "I'd tell you 'no', but I'd want you to make me do it". It's not cheating on her husband if I make her do it.

Let me now break down Ovid's poem line by line:

Though she might not give, take what isn’t given.
Perhaps she’ll struggle, and then say ‘you’re wicked’:

I think it should be said that you can't be a disgusting ogre to do this. She must be at least minimally attracted to you, or at least not revolted by you.

struggling she still wants, herself, to be conquered.

This goes with the "I'd tell you 'no', but I'd want you to make me do it" thing. If she is "forced" then it is a win/win for her: if it goes bad it's your fault, if it goes good then she wins too.

Only, take care her lips aren’t bruised by snatching,
and that she can’t complain that you were harsh.

This should be a "duh" moment: if you hurt the girl she won't like it. When that girl told me "no" but her voice melted like butter, I'm sure she wouldn't have reacted the same way if I had been mean.

Who takes a kiss, and doesn’t take the rest,
deserves to lose all that were granted too.
How much short of your wish are you after that kiss?
Ah me, that was boorishness stopped you not modesty.

That same no-butter-girl was a girl with whom I had pushed things a bit far on several occasions. She later (literally) thanked me for pushing her to go further. Though she never really did say why (at the time I assumed because she liked it, but I'm not 100% sure that was it).

Though you call it force: it’s force that pleases girls: what delights
is often to have given what they wanted, against their will.
She who is taken in love’s sudden onslaught
is pleased, and finds wickedness is a tribute.

In the excitement of it all, her body will betray her and you can use that to your advantage. Many people fantasize that they are so sexually attractive that members of the opposite sex find them irresistible (don't we all wish that we were?)... well an attractive man who can't help himself around a woman is something women can forgive: Bill Clinton and JFK were these kinds of men.

Another thing a young lady once said to me that I'll never forget was that she was talking to her mother about some Hollywood star and she said "I'd let him rape me". No, she wasn't crazy by any means; instead she was simply saying what many women never verbalize about their own sexualities.

And she who might have been forced, and escapes unscathed,
will be saddened, though her face pretends delight.

I've noticed this too. If you are bold enough to start, and then stop the woman will be more angry at you than not. Kind of like in that old Demmi More movie "Disclosure" where she screams at Michael Douglas "you get back here and finish what you started!". Finish what you start, even if it is only a kiss. Women do not want cowards for mates.

Ok it's late and I'll check back tomorrow assuming I'm not banned. lol

 

[KontrollerX]

Hopefully the morality crew doesn't ruin this topic with knee jerk retardation responses.

Ok so my thoughts...

-I agree women don't want cowards for mates.

-I think the desire of women for men to finish what they start is because women need ego validation from men that they are worth being with and if a guy backs off at any point its not only the perception of cowardice that bothers her it is the invalidation of her as a woman that bothers her the most though the word coward or some equivalent may be used by the female as an immature form of payback to a man she perceives as invalidating her. Also a way for her to cover up her bruised ego with a smokescreen of sorts by putting the man on the defensive.

-I don't think women desire to be raped on some deep level rather I think they have a healthy sex drive like men but in order to not feel like slvts they want a good rationalization/excuse to make themselves feel less guilty about indulging in sexual pleasure very similar to how many people use alcohol as an excuse/rationalization for cheating on a partner. Being properly and thoroughly seduced by a silver tongued pimp or playa or even a DJ gives women the perfect rationalization/excuse they need to not feel any guilt the next morning about having had a one night stand filled with firey passion. They can look in the mirror and avoid responsibility for their actions by saying that the DJ they were with was simply too irresistable for them and they never actually intended to have sex they just couldn't resist the magnetic charm of the man in front of them.

So to conclude I think women seek strong men as partners, I think they want validation that they are attractive and worth being with and I think also they struggle with guilt over doing naughty things and to alleviate this guilt they use a complex web of rationalizations and coping methods.

 

[jophil28]

Finish what you start, even if it is only a kiss. Women do not want cowards for mates.

Women may not know what they want but their genes do.

Nice poem.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Hopefully the morality crew doesn't ruin this topic with knee jerk retardation responses.

Ok so my thoughts...

-I agree women don't want cowards for mates.

-I think the desire of women for men to finish what they start is because women need ego validation from men that they are worth being with and if a guy backs off at any point its not only the perception of cowardice that bothers her it is the invalidation of her as a woman that bothers her the most though the word coward or some equivalent may be used by the female as an immature form of payback to a man she perceives as invalidating her. Also a way for her to cover up her bruised ego with a smokescreen of sorts by putting the man on the defensive.

-I don't think women desire to be raped on some deep level rather I think they have a healthy sex drive like men but in order to not feel like slvts they want a good rationalization/excuse to make themselves feel less guilty about indulging in sexual pleasure very similar to how many people use alcohol as an excuse/rationalization for cheating on a partner. Being properly and thoroughly seduced by a silver tongued pimp or playa or even a DJ gives women the perfect rationalization/excuse they need to not feel any guilt the next morning about having had a one night stand filled with firey passion. They can look in the mirror and avoid responsibility for their actions by saying that the DJ they were with was simply too irresistable for them and they never actually intended to have sex they just couldn't resist the magnetic charm of the man in front of them.

So to conclude I think women seek strong men as partners, I think they want validation that they are attractive and worth being with and I think also they struggle with guilt over doing naughty things and to alleviate this guilt they use a complex web of rationalizations and coping methods.

Not even I could rationalize a woman's internal mechanisms and psyche more astutely.

Well done.

 

[Tazman]

Indeed.

 

[sharkbeat]

I presumed you read my post in the DJ Tips forum. I am glad I posted.

Yes, women desire is simply to be conquered. As Senor Fingerz put it, to be shown what they want. They fantasized rape, for heaven's sake. They are receptors, they won't take actions, but merely respond to our actions.

I don't think this reaches the darkest place of the human mind. Seriously, if this is how nature works, then I'll be more than glad to use it. It's out there, it's well known, you might as well learn to utilize it. You don't rape her, of course, but the moral of the story (or poem) is to never wait for a woman to do something for you.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Yes, women desire is simply to be conquered. As Senor Fingerz put it, to be shown what they want. They fantasized rape, for heaven's sake. They are receptors, they won't take actions, but merely respond to our actions.

Yes I did read your post, thanks.

When it comes to women's rape fantasies I think this is one time hairs should be split. Technically their rape fantasies aren't 'rape'. They fantasize about 1.) men they are attracted to, 2.) they aren't beaten, only restrained, and 3.) they sexually respond to it. Basically the fantasy is that they are so sexually desirable that their fantasy man can't control himself.

I don't think this reaches the darkest place of the human mind.

It does, let me explain why. Now, just to be clear this is a related topic, but ultimately a separate subject from either rape fantasies or to easing a woman's conscious.


Ovid may have known, as well as those who have studied rape know, that orgasms during real rape do happen. Sexual arousal during rape also happens such as in the case of male on male prison sex. From what I've read this typically tends to be disorienting to the victims (male or female) and makes them question their sexuality and their sanity. You can google the phrase if you like to find out more, you can also check here: http://speakout.org.za/legal/laws/laws_newsa.html

I think that on some level a lot of *******s know this and know they can get away with it. It certainly explains why women seem to put up with abuse by *******s -- because things like this happens and it confuses the hell out of them. It also makes me wonder just how many women out there who seem damaged are damaged because something like this happened in their lives. Some guy she was attracted to subdued her, made her 'body betray her', and because no one ever educated her about what actually can happen during rape (thank you feminists) assumed that it meant she liked it and thus found herself a new boyfriend.

It is infinitely amazing just how much abusers understand human vulnerabilities and how they can be exploited.

 

[bigjohnson]

When it comes to women's rape fantasies I think this is one time hairs should be split.

The fact that real rape is not how they imagined it is pretty central. They have fantasies of 'rape' by strangers but it's always an ATTRACTIVE stranger they respond to favorably.

Most women want to be dominated during sex.

Sadly it's a slippery slope and now we have to be very damn careful. Just another example of how feminists have ruined sex for men and women alike.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I don't think this reaches the darkest place of the human mind. Seriously, if this is how nature works, then I'll be more than glad to use it. It's out there, it's well known, you might as well learn to utilize it.

One of the reasons this is usually thought of as "dark" or "evil" is because society has accepted it that way on "unconscious group" level.

Could you imagine what it would be like if every man truly "got this" on a deep level? If every girl he saw that he wanted to bang, he automatically thought "I want that, and if I decide to take that, she will willingly give herself to me"?

Kids wouldn't know who there parents were, dudes would be killing each other over "their" women, women would be standing on the sidelines enjoying the spectacle as men fought for them.

I would argue that certain limiting "myths" regarding the evils of sexuality have their place in society, so long as you don't take them too seriously as an enlightened enjoyer of women.

Kind of like a secret agent from Planet DJ enjoying life on Planet AFC.

 

[squirrels]

If you're SO dense that you can't tell the difference between ravishing a woman and raping her, then you should probably cut your wang off just to be safe.

 

[STR8UP]

It's all about knowing the difference between ASD and resistance that is being put up because a chick truly DOES NOT want to fukk you.

Yea, most of the time if a chick is making out with you she wants to do more. And yes, it turns her on for you to push through her resistance. And of course she wants to be able to rationalize that you "made her do it" so she doesn't have to feel like a tramp.

But I think it's important to make a distinction in the rare case that the woman is making out with you out of boredom and truly does not have that much interest in fukking you or has religious hangups or some other crap. You should be able to tell by the tone of her voice and her actions (if her hand is on your c0ck while she is saying no then she ISN'T saying no).

But yea, in general, it's a good idea to keep in mind that a woman wants it as much as you do...she just wants YOU to be the agressor for numerous reasons.

 

[AIRWARRIOR71]

The most important thing in this is to not "lose" your own self to the "darkness of the mind" to where you are out of control. Once you lose control of yourself in the one sense, then you are no longer "showing her what she wants". The fine line to walk is knowing the difference between "no" and "no". Only when you are in control of yourself can you tell which "no" means "yes" and which "no" means "NO!" Be the enlightened DJ bringing pleasure to yourself and the ladies, not the monster that messes a chick up for the rest of us as well!

 

[BobMo']

^^
I agree, it's a fine line and it's a real test of a man's skill. You have to be aware of what's going on and act on your best guess. I'd err on the side of caution there days though.

That said, last year I took the conservative road even though she was hot for me. I stupidly thought "I'll f-close it next time." Needless to say,there was no (or hasn'r been yet) next time. Live and learn. Faint heart never won fair lady.

 

[KontrollerX]

as the word rape was up again here:::::

I would like to ask KontrollerX if he could develop a statement he
made a year ago in post "how to get rid of BPD ladies" where it said:
"When scorned They are known to falsely accuse You of rape."
which is exactly what happened to me, would be grateful for advise pls.

Well what I meant is it is usually rare for a guy to dump a BPD since their soulmate con feels so powerful to most of their victims but if a guy does dump them they may go to extreme measures to pay that guy back if after a long time of their begging the guy still does not give in and go back to having a relationship with them.

The Fatal Attraction movie goes even a bit over the top for a BPD with the payback but I wouldn't say what that movie portrays is completely out of the question though the scene in the movie Vanilla Sky where Cameron Diaz's character tries to kill herself and Tom Cruise's character while riding in a car probably comes closer to the reality of most BPD's revenge schemes.

As for false BPD rape allegations the only way to protect yourself from that is to have a pile of friends and other people who can vouch for your whereabouts on certain dates and also make sure you get a lawyer and say as little to any cops that may come to arrest you as possible. Find out your Miranda rights.

Anyway so as to not sidetrack Luthor's great thread anymore if you have any other questions for me on this send me a PM.