This site's philosophy

[zekko]

It struck me to put this site's philosophy into words in this way - tell me if I am right or wrong. If there is a flaw in what I am saying please point it out:

One big problem with many men is that they put good looking women up on a pedestal (they think the women have higher value than they do). In response this site has a philosophy that makes the man "the prize" that goes something like this:

1) Any man is the prize over a woman because males are inheritently superior to females (at least in the sense of being leaders, building things, and making things happen)
2) A man who embraces "DJ" principles will be superior to the other men around him (and thus attract women more) because he KNOWS that he as a male is superior to females.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I think #1 may be an over-simplification as some men believe that each gender should (in a perfect world) be equal in intrinsic value though vastly different in proclivities and capabilities.

For myself, however, I believe that men are in fact vastly superior across 90%of all categories. We are vastly more intelligent, have more strength and energy, and we have designed and built the entirety of civilization.

It could be argued that at one time women had more "emotional intelligence", but that is long gone as nowadays their emotions are given free reign with no societal hindrances or system of checks and balances.

Women today have turned their backs on their own natural proclivities and are collectively going insane before our eyes because they were never built to do the things we do, nor to answer to the same expectations that we men must answer to. I'm going to write a new post about this idea in more detail in a little while.

I suppose I'm unecessarily complicating your simple question. Sorry 'bout that!

 

[zekko]

I think a big reason some guys have trouble with seeing women as higher value than themselves is that they can't get past the visual impact. Ever see an attractive women, maybe dressed a little provacatively, and you just instantly think holy sh!t look at that? There are very few guys who can get this kind of reaction from girls, largely because guys are just wired to react that way. Women don't normally react to visual cues like that.
So guys think that just because women can look that hot, and can get that kind of powerful reaction by just standing there, that they are inferior. But they have to remember that looks aren't everything. Looks are not going to build that skyscraper.

I think #1 may be an over-simplification as some men believe that each gender should (in a perfect world) be equal in intrinsic value though vastly different in proclivities and capabilities.

Well, anytime you boil things down to a sentence or two it's going to end up being an over-simplification. But I do think that as a generalization it is pretty much what this site teaches.

It looks like over on RSD they have put aside this "I am the prize" idea, and are now teaching the concept of meeting up with women as equals. Apparently the idea of feeding the ego with being "the prize" contradicts some of their Eckhart Tolle/Buddhist/New Age philosophies. Personally, I think RSD is simply trying to come up with a new batch of material since so much of their older stuff got ripped off through torrents. This goes along with the idea of pickup as an evolving philosophy rather than a timeless set of ideas.

 

[Die Hard]

1) Any man is the prize over a woman because males are inheritently superior to females (at least in the sense of being leaders, building things, and making things happen)

That's just a thought all of us utilize now and then, in order to reinforce our conviction that we are the prize. It's nothing more than that and certainly doesn't count as one of Sosuave's main principles.

That's how I see it, anyway...

 

[Atom Smasher]

Yes, our appreciation for and fascination with female beauty (which is totally hard-wired) is our Achilles Heel.

I have often thought about this. It seems impossible to overcome since the wiring is in place.

I think that the only countermeasure is an attitude of abundance, and just as you say, making that shift to knowing that you are the prize. Starting ANY relationship is in large measure a negotiation, and we damn well better be willing and able to walk away from the table.

 

[Jeffst1980]

To be fair, we are only "superior" to females when judged by OUR value system. Women could equally claim to be "superior" due to their ability to create and nurture new life. Comparing the relative value of the sexes sounds a bit like comparing the relative value of the positive and negative terminals on a battery.

I would rather think myself to be a "prize" when compared to other MEN, since they are competition, in this regard. I don't really care about proving how I can do something better than a woman, or about how superior our value sphere is to their own.

I think RSD is on the right track, despite the new age-y-ness, because the "prize" mentality should really be more about refusing to supplicate, rather than all the "do you know who i am?!?" egotism, which is pretty transparent. I think it helps to be ****y, but you should be self-aware enough to understand that you are doing it to get RESULTS, and not because you truly believe that, out of six billion people, you are the ANOINTED one. When it comes down to it, none of us--man, woman alike- are all that special. Sure, we all aim to be high valued males, but only because they're the ones that reap all the benefits from society. I believe we should pursue this path from a rational perspective, WITHOUT all the cheerleading, etc.

Now, as a primer, I think Zekko's principles are a great for anyone new to game. But, I think the end goal is to see pickup as an interaction of diametric male and female polarities-- we lead because we are
MALE, not because we are "superior" on some make-believe scale of awesomeness. After all, if we're so superior to women, why do we bother with them at all? Let's not delude ourselves into thinking- on a site devoted to learning to attract women, no less- that women aren't important to us. Clearly, they have something that we want. Our goal is to go get it.

 

[Burroughs]

Something that most men forget...to be the PRIZE you have to get up off your ass and DO SOMETHING and WIN.

If you have to convince yourself that you are the prize without any concrete proof then you're fooling yourself. When you accomplish something of tangible value, build a company, write a spec script that sells for big money, then you are the prize. Then and only then will women will come to you. Until that day its all smoke and mirrors and you will never KEEP a high value woman.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Something that most men forget...to be the PRIZE you have to get up off your ass and DO SOMETHING and WIN.

If you have to convince yourself that you are the prize without any concrete proof then you're fooling yourself. When you accomplish something of tangible value, build a company, write a spec script that sells for big money, then you are the prize. Then and only then will women will come to you. Until that day its all smoke and mirrors and you will never KEEP a high value woman.

You're exactly right. I cosign.

The great thing is that even if a man is coming off a major losing streak, he is always just one small decision form being a winner again. Being a winner is being engaged in the process of developing yourself across all areas. It simply doesn't matter where you are along the continuum. It only matters that you are taking action. When you are taking consistent action, you are already among the ranks of the winners and have the right to consider yourself the prize.

Apart from our own self-respect, which is far more important than the respect of women, let's always remember that to a woman, ambition and accomplishment are exactly the same thing.

I have proven this out many times. A woman will overlook the fact that a man has few possessions if she sees ambition. To her, the two are valued equally. That's good news for us. When you verbalize ambition to her (tell her of your goals and dreams), she buys it hook, line and sinker. This may not apply to true gold diggers, but in my experience it applies even to women who are moderately into money and possessions.

If you are a new guy here and feel like a loser, remember that only one small decision puts you on the track of being a winner. Tiny steps, repeated on a regular basis, will move mountains. Just put yourself on the track, regardless of how far along you are. That makes YOU qualified to make the claim that you are the prize.

 

[Die Hard]

Good post, Atom Smasher. I needed that...

 

[zekko]

Yes, our appreciation for and fascination with female beauty (which is totally hard-wired) is our Achilles Heel.

I have often thought about this. It seems impossible to overcome since the wiring is in place.

I agree, it is difficult to overcome. Female beauty is so "in your face" as it were, while the things that make males attractive may be hidden below the surface. I've seen these lists of things that makes men attractive to women, like whatever makes a good protector, provider, I can't remember the rest. Anyway, some of those things may not be as immediately apparent as a woman's beauty.

I would rather think myself to be a "prize" when compared to other MEN, since they are competition, in this regard.

Some pickup material tries to deny that other men are competition, but I've always thought that was BS. Especially since that same material then goes on to tell you how to AMOG the other guy. It wouldn't be necessary to tool the other guy out if they weren't competition.

Of course, then to be the prize you have to start thinking about reasons why you're better than the next guy. That can get tricky if you don't have much going for you. So I think the general answer guys on this forum come up with is #2 that I listed above. "I'm better than the next guy because I'm a DJ, I know DJ principles, I can see through the matrix".

When you accomplish something of tangible value, build a company, write a spec script that sells for big money, then you are the prize. Then and only then will women will come to you. Until that day its all smoke and mirrors and you will never KEEP a high value woman.

I think this is one reason why older men tend to attract women more easily. They've had time to accomplish something. When I was younger I could get laid all day long, but I had trouble keeping women. Because I hadn't accomplished anything yet. Now that I'm older, and higher value, women want to stay with me.

If women tend to want relationships, and if I am a high value male, I should expect women to want to stay with me and hitch their wagon to my life. If women aren't wanting to do this, then I'm lying to myself about being a high value male. Casual sex is nice, but almost anybody can get it, so it's not really an indicator of high value.

Good post, Atom Smasher. I needed that...

I agree, that was a good post.

 

[Colossus]

I dont think any one human being has any more intrinsic value than anyone else. We are all subject to disease, injury, and age. Death and Time are the great equalizers.

It's a slippery slope when you start thinking you are better than women; and really at its core that ideology is flawed. We want women---I daresay NEED them--as much as they want and need us. Neither sex is independent of the other.

That said, of course there are many things men generally excel at compared to women. Ask any woman though and she'll tell you how many things they are better at than us. It's relative, and it is (or should be) complimentary. If you go through life with the "us vs. them" mindset you are in for a lot of anger, heartache, and failure.

Also on being "the prize", you have to be superior to your peers or contemporaries in some way to hold this view. Basically I look at it like this: if you are constantly working on comprehensive improvement, treat your women AWESOME, respect yourself first, and are willing to walk away when you arent treated with equal respect and awesomeness, then you CAN believe you are the prize because you are in fact a rarity. Guys who have these attributes dont grow on trees. Money and status are great, but they dont make the man. There are plenty of douchebags who have money and status. Try to be a cut above in how you treat your women. It's as much for you as it is for them.

 

[Slickster]

I think a big reason some guys have trouble with seeing women as higher value than themselves is that they can't get past the visual impact. Ever see an attractive women, maybe dressed a little provacatively, and you just instantly think holy sh!t look at that?

This is something that you absolutely have to get under control if you ever want to consider yourself a real DJ. Guys who have had (or get) a lot of women don't react this way. You've been there done that so there is no need to act like a kid in a candy store.

Once you gain control of yourself in the presence of hot women you've taken a big step forward towards actually attracting them.

The prize thing doesn't really matter if you are cool.

If you are one of those guys who gawks, stares, gets all worked up, and acts like a chump, every other part of your game is useless.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear All,
Somewhere along the line you guys have lost the plot if you had a site for Body Builders,you would discuss different routines,diets,tricks of the trade....This is a Site for would be Don Juans...So,go back and look at that mans life,basically he had no goal in life but maximising his carnal pleasures,with the least possible committment.....That is a reasonably objective assessment on looking at his life....Philosophy?he was too darned busy living to bother with that....One site on here,asks who were the greatest Don Juans?we have everyone from Attilla the Hun to Henry Ford...Hugh Baby is the only one, that Don Juan Would want to know,the rest are Soldiers,financiers,even a Warlock! Gawd help us...Coming back to your original Question.Not putting Women on Pedestals is just a part of this way to live your life.

 

[DanelMadr]

It struck me to put this site's philosophy into words in this way - tell me if I am right or wrong. If there is a flaw in what I am saying please point it out:

One big problem with many men is that they put good looking women up on a pedestal (they think the women have higher value than they do). In response this site has a philosophy that makes the man "the prize" that goes something like this:

1) Any man is the prize over a woman because males are inheritently superior to females (at least in the sense of being leaders, building things, and making things happen)
2) A man who embraces "DJ" principles will be superior to the other men around him (and thus attract women more) because he KNOWS that he as a male is superior to females.

If this is the site's philosophy, then I am deeply disappointed.
This attitude only creates false sense of ego.

I'd like to be "superior" to women in things I, as a man, am or should be better in. In a sense that I have something to offer. And of course I expect something in return...the qualities in which, as a man, I am not so good at.

This whole sense of power struggle only makes bad blood.

I'd like to think this site teaches a Balance in every aspect of life with strong accentuation on seduction. Unlike popular sites, who see Balance as being something like unisex. I believe it is much more natural and healthy to be balanced in your Man side of spectrum, unless you want to become a monk.

 

[zekko]

It's a slippery slope when you start thinking you are better than women; and really at its core that ideology is flawed.

You may be right, but I still think that is the philosophy that this site teaches. If men and woman are equals, how then do you treat women like your "bratty little sister"? If you aren't in fact superior, how do you treat her with "amused mastery"?

Aren't women presented here as beings unable to know what they themselves want (or what is good for them)? As beings that are at the whim of the winds of their emotions? As unable to make good decisions for themselves without a man to lead them?

if you are constantly working on comprehensive improvement, treat your women AWESOME

I respect your viewpoint, but I'm pretty sure "treat your women AWESOME" is most definitely NOT something that is taught on this site. I would argue more the opposite is the case, if anything. At best, this site teaches to treat your women about 2/3 as well as they treat you.

This is something that you absolutely have to get under control if you ever want to consider yourself a real DJ. Guys who have had (or get) a lot of women don't react this way. You've been there done that so there is no need to act like a kid in a candy store.

I agree you cannot allow yourselves to be overwhelmed by beauty, and that you should desensitize yourself to it as much as you can. And even if you FEEL amazed at her beauty, you cannot display it.

On the other hand, if you never think to yourself "wow look at that" when you see a beautiful woman, I'd say you are either dead or well on the way.

This is a Site for would be Don Juans...So,go back and look at that mans life,basically he had no goal in life but maximising his carnal pleasures,with the least possible committment

That's something I've noticed also. A "DJ" as defined on this forum bears little resemblence to the character "Don Juan". I doubt Don Juan himself was hitting the gym or seeking to improve himself. The "DJ" idea has taken on a life of its own.

 

[zekko]

I think you are confusing treating your woman "awesome" with worshiping her and considering her above reproach

I know there are some very naive guys that seek this place out, but it really is common sense that you should not worship your woman. I worry about any guy that can't figure this out.

Mind you, I am not even talking about my opinions here, I am merely trying to summarize what this site teaches. Seriously, answer me this honestly, have you EVER seen it taught here that you should treat your woman AWESOME? I sure haven't. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but I have definitely not seen that taught on this site.

If you go over to the general discussion board, you'll even have a lot of the younger guys say that the worst you treat a woman, the more she will be attracted to you. I don't believe that personally, and I don't believe this site teaches it either. That's the extreme view.

The 2/3 "rule" to which you allude regards attention - giving and receiving. While it's just another guideline and nothing ironclad, it's meant to help men break free of old habits and avoid self-sabotage

That's a problem with a lot of the advice given here. A lot of it is like "I'm not doing this because I know better, but here's what you should be doing, you pathetic AFC".

You're also interchanging the notion of leadership with superiority

To some extent, but not entirely. Again, how do you treat a girl like a "bratty little sister" or with "amused mastery" if you are not superior to her? Honestly, do you think this site portrays men as superior to women or not? At the very least, a significant amount of the posters do.

 

[Burroughs]

Again, how do you treat a girl like a "bratty little sister" or with "amused mastery" if you are not superior to her?

Lots of folks seem to want the aura of a successful man without putting in the work.

Sure you can bag an 8+ through any number of PUA tricks but women OVER TIME are savvy. Your best bet in life is to BE THE PRIZE in every tangible way. John Grisham, Bill Gates, Tiger Woods....now Tiger Woods in particular gets a lot of contempt these days but what was it that got him the women in the first place his looks, verbal game? No it was his sky high status via ACCOMPLISHMENTS...don't believe me..you think it was the looks?

Well, look at other top golfers..some of them are butt ugly with huge pot bellies...most of them have wives/girlfriends that are 9+. Its stunning. Golfers get stupid play. This because golf is the elite game of the wealthy and anyone who master this gets social proof through the roof. They are the real deal....and even if their perky blond cheerleader leaves, there's another one waiting around the corner at the equipment tent.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Zecko,
"I doubt Don Juan himself was hitting the gym or seeking to improve himself. The "DJ" idea has taken on a life of its own"....Thanks for that,I never thought of that before,you are right of course.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Burroughs,
"Lots of folks seem to want the aura of a successful man without putting in the work."I can see your point,but lets be realistic,if a Man has not achieved some significant breakthroughs in his objectives at say 35,he never will....for younger Man,yeah,you have a point,but the risk is that whilst the means justifies the end,the problem is that in getting there you change along the way,the means too often becomes the end..."Gather,ye Rose buds while ye may".

 

[backbreaker]

Something that most men forget...to be the PRIZE you have to get up off your ass and DO SOMETHING and WIN.

If you have to convince yourself that you are the prize without any concrete proof then you're fooling yourself. When you accomplish something of tangible value, build a company, write a spec script that sells for big money, then you are the prize. Then and only then will women will come to you. Until that day its all smoke and mirrors and you will never KEEP a high value woman.

nail on the head. good post. At least the first sentence, the second paragraph is oversimplification.

It's not perception, it's reality. men spend months here, years here trying to convince themselves that women in general aren't as good as men, or that they are the prize, when the reality is, they the women are a prize in their eyes, because the truth be told, they DON'T' deserve the woman they are looking at. They haven't done anything to deserve that woman and their sub conscious knows it. However you lost me when you started talking in terms o strictly wealth. I use my father as an example again, definition of middle class, and has bagged easily in the 3 digits of women in his lifetime, well over 100. Good looking women too. They don't like him beucase he's rich. they like him becuase he's good looking and sure of himself.. Hell, one of his on and off again affairs, the woman is married to a doctor.


to fix this, do something. People think i'm ****y /arrogant, but one thing you can say about me is that I honestly, think I'm a catch. I honestly believe, that women are lucky to be with me, and my actions show this.

"I doubt Don Juan himself was hitting the gym or seeking to improve himself. The "DJ" idea has taken on a life of its own"....Thanks for that,I never thought of that before,you are right of course.

Actually you could not be more wrong

“Cultivating whatever gave pleasure to my senses was always the chief business of my life; I never found any occupation more important. Feeling that I was born for the sex opposite of mine, I have always loved it and done all that I could to make myself loved by it

From none other than Casanova