This Mental Illness thing with women is SCARY

[KontrollerX]

"If you are referring to me, then thanks!
Apologies if you weren't."

Yeah I generally find you to be a d!ckhead and a troll but you have my most sincerest apologies if you are suffering from asperger's syndrome. A lot of those people post the same way that you do and are genuinely looking to learn new things and don't intend to be d!ckheads but since they do not know how to interact with normal people they generally come off as being huge trolls and assh0les and of course d!ckheads on forums until they explain themselves and their condition.

There's another poster here with asperger's who learned how to interact normally and not come off as a d!ckhead. I'm not sure if he'd want it to be known publically that he has the syndrome so if you have it and would like to learn how not to be a d!ckhead from that guy I'd be happy to get you and he started on a PM correspondence right away after of course I told you his name via PM.

"What if I believe that it is fake but I also believe that I have the temperment and the skills to next a girl at the first sign of trouble, and not only that, but I also do so much work on my self esteem and my personal boundries that it doesn't even matter if its fake or not? Would I be ok then?"

You have the benefit of having read my posts and others who have dealt with them so you know what to look out for. The knowledge we have all provided is the only thing that would prevent you from being taken in by one of these people.

On your own without ever having found this forum or information anywhere on the Cluster B disorders your work at self esteem and any other thing you think that would protect you wouldn't do any good because Cluster B people blend in and appear normal on the surface at first to those they target and of course when you think someone else is normal and just like you that opens your mind to trusting this person as you'd unconsciously trust any other person you'd find to be normal and with a good manner about them.

If self esteem and personal boundaries could stave off this hypnosis Jophil and Pimpscicle who have high self esteem and excellent personal boundaries wouldn't of become victims.

Your overconfidence can also be used by these people to aid in their hypnosis as they'll just find an angle to play off of it and get you hypnotized and hooked on them

In short your overconfidence that you could never be manipulated or hypnotized and taken in is your greatest weakness.

Also you are kidding yourself if you think even after you were hypnotized by one of these people that your self esteem could remain high as what they do is work at breaking your self esteem down until you feel as rotten as they do inside.

Now I'm sure with all the knowledge we have provided for you, you could get involved with one of these people and keep your self esteem and boundaries but the grand point I'm making is if you met one of them unaware of what you were dealing with all the great work you've done at self esteem building and boundary creation wouldn't matter one damn bit because their process of hypnosis is gradual and subtle.

"Is that how ALL people dealt with problems in the olden times?"

Generally when people on this forum refer to the good old days of post feminism they are referring to the 1950's and the ability to give a woman a good smack to keep her in line and get away with it.

And of course there are exceptions to every rule and not ALL people dealt with violence back then to solve these kinds of problems but I'd argue as would SocalMike that the majority dealt with them that way which is why the true misogynists of the forum refer to the 1950's with glee so often.

"I'd think that by fighting monsters, you might become a pretty good monster fighter. But I guess that depends on your model of the world to begin with.

And I'm not sure what you mean by gazing into the abyss. I'd think if you gazed into an abys for a while, you might just get sleepy, but that's just me."

Why would you become a good monster fighter?

What does your model of the world to begin with have to do with anything?

Why use the word model instead of view? Is it a better word?? Can you prove that its a better word scientifically??? Would you try to do so? If not why not??? Why is the word model started with an M? Why can't we use any letter we want to be the beginning letter of the word model???

Why talk about how an abyss makes you sleepy? Whats that all about???

Why do you seperate your lines of text?

Why is your name Tacky_Taco???

[/taiyuu_otoko douchebag line of questioning.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Why would you become a good monster fighter?

You right, I misspoke. You would only get better at fighting monsters if you learn from your mistakes. Please forgive my oversight.

What does your model of the world to begin with have to do with anything?

I'll refer you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map-territory_relation
to answer that question

Why use the word model instead of view?

Becasue "Model" general implies more flexibility, but that is of course only my opinion. You may use "View" if you prefer.

Is it a better word??

It suppose it would depend on the context and intention of the communication. Forgive me if I've confused you.

Can you prove that its a better word scientifically??? Would you try to do so? If not why not???

Better than what? For what context? According to whose criteria?

Why is the word model started with an M?

I'll refer you to http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=model&searchmode=none

Why can't we use any letter we want to be the beginning letter of the word model???

Generally speaking, people need to have some type of collective agreement on how words are spelled, otherwise people wouldn't understand each other.

Why talk about how an abyss makes you sleepy? Whats that all about???

I was refering my own subjective hallucination about the future. I certainly did not mean to imply that my model (or "view" if you prefer) had any overlap with yours. I was merely suggesting a perhaps more resourceful alternative. I would imagine that getting some good shut eye would be better than being stared at by some abyss.

Why do you seperate your lines of text?

Its' really the only way I know how to type. Do you know of another way?

Why is your name Tacky_Taco???

That is neither my real name nor my screen name. I think perhaps you have me confused with somebody else. Or perhaps I have you confused with somebody else. Please forgive any confusion I've caused.

 

[SoCalMike]

My nephew has ADHD. Went to the doctor and got on the right meds and he's a changed person. I watched him grow up, and I can assure you his problems were related to brain chemistry, and had little to nothing to do with how he grew up.

Can you explain exactly what this 'brain chemistry' problem is, and how it was diagnosed?

Seratonin levels change based on mood. But a seratonin level in itself means nothing, except that a person is in a certain mood.

By your "reasoning" it is not possible for a person to fukk up their seratonin production for the rest of their life by using too much X. I'm pretty sure the majority of the medical community would disagree with you.

How did you jump to this conclusion? I said no such thing.

I suppose it's possible can screw up their mind up with excessive/irresponsible drug use. But it would have to be really extreme.

But those are NOT the cases I'm talking about. The vast majority of cases are diagnosed solely on behavior, and have nothing to do with massive drug use.

The pill industry loves folks like you.

 

[SoCalMike]

KontrollerX and STR8UP are the dudes with 3 and 5 THOUSAND posts on this board. Do you guys have jobs/lives? LOL Seriously.

Anyway, back to subject...

The argument is NOT that there aren't a TINY TINY number of people with genuine brain diseases, the argument... ONE LAST TIME... is:

MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE DIAGNOSED TO HAVE ADHD OR BPD, etc. DO NOT HAVE A DISEASE. PERIOD.

There is no science to back up 99.99% of these cases. If a person's brain has chemicals/cells which indicate they are depressed/had a bad upbringing, that is not a disease. It just means they are depressed/had a bad upbringing. FURTHERMORE, in how many cases does a doctor even examine brain chemistry? Very few. Most of the time it's just questions/observations about feelings/behavior, and then a diagnosis. Junk science.

If I don't excercize for 40 years, and I'm flabby, do I have a 'disease'? Do I need to start injecting massive amounts of steroids? No, I just need to work out.

Drugs are not the solution. Change of behavior/environment is. And this includes being in direct contact with people who are a positive influence, exercizing, not drinking/doing drugs, etc. Excercize alone with change your mood, release endorphins, etc. You don't need drugs.

But hey, believe whatever you want, isn't my money going to the pills and shrinks. Good luck with those drugs...

 

[STR8UP]

Can you explain exactly what this 'brain chemistry' problem is, and how it was diagnosed?

Seratonin levels change based on mood. But a seratonin level in itself means nothing, except that a person is in a certain mood.

Are you sure about that chief?

Seratonin levels DETERMINE mood. Low seratonin= all kinds of problems. Many things can lower seratonin levels, which means that yes, indeed, chemical imbalances can and do create mental problems.

How did you jump to this conclusion? I said no such thing.

I suppose it's possible can screw up their mind up with excessive/irresponsible drug use. But it would have to be really extreme.

But those are NOT the cases I'm talking about. The vast majority of cases are diagnosed solely on behavior, and have nothing to do with massive drug use.

It doesn't necessarily have to be due to excessive drug use, chemical imbalances can be caused by stress, diet, genetics, etc.

You would have us believe that everyone's brain chemistry is the same, that it is static, that it cannot influence behavior or moods. You are very wrong.

The pill industry loves folks like you.

Another Sosuave member read my thread recently about being "down", and was kind enough to PM me about a book that might help.

I did some research online and found that you can download a copy of the eBook for free at the author's website www.thewayup.com .

I started reading the book, and coincidentally I had gone out drinking the two nights before. I felt like absolute GARBAGE the day I started reading the book. Not really hung over (I hadn't had THAT much to drink) but more like in a mental fog, drained, depressed....I can't even describe it. It sucked.

Anyway, I started to see the direction the book was going (treating depression with amino acids and vitamins) and I got to a chapter where the author said that when she has a day where she feels depressed, she takes a couple of tyrosine capsules and pops a couple of vitamin b12 tablets under her tongue, and she feels fine for the rest of the day.

Immediately I went to the vitamin store and picked up a bottle of each. I took a couple of each that evening and seemed to feel better. Been taking the same thing every day since last Friday and I have felt like a new man ever since.

I'm not ready to say that it "cured" me, but something had a very positive effect on me. The program she recommends actually calls for more vitamins and amino acids, but I don't want to spend the money on them all right now, and if what i am doing isn't broken I'm not going to try to fix it.

My guess is that my diet (low calorie weight loss diet) coupled with alcohol consumption was depleting my body of vitamins. A little research showed me that alcohol tends to do this.

So basically, the way I was treating my body was putting a tremendous strain on my mind. My brain wasn't getting the nutrients required to produce sufficient quantities of norepinepherine and seratonin.

The author of this book is a doctor, and is not pushing pills. Actually quite the contrary. I know it's hard to wrap your brain around something you have never experienced and you sound like the kind of person who thinks that the entire medical community is in a conspiracy to get your money, but you really should become a little bit better informed before you claim that most people's mental issues are imaginary.

 

[BeyondCharm]

Str8up,

I recommend getting NOW B-Complex Liquid and Now Liquid Multi-Vitamin. The reason is that they are faster absorbing in your body and easier for your liver and blood to absorb because they are in liquid form. Any time I can get my vitamins in liquid or powder I'll take them over pills. Much easier for the body to use.

 

[Colossus]

Not to get further off-topic, but attention deficit is a legitimate psychological condition. It IS treatable, and it is not always related to a lack of discipline in childhood. I think it is partly heritable. The problem with this condition is that it is often over-diagnosed. Some kids (and adults) are just spazoids who need to get their act together. Or they are just hyper, restless kids who are bored to tears in school. This doesn't always mean something is psychologically wrong.

To quote myself from a recent thread...I did a little reading on BPD, and surprisingly I found that the symptoms were emotions and behaviors that most people feel or have felt at times. What separates a BPD from a healthy individual is that in BPDs it is chronic---they have brooded, internalized, and festered in their plight for so long that it becomes part of personality--- hence, a personality disorder. Research indicates that the majority of BPDs are young women who have suffered some form of abuse, namely sexual and emotional. I have to second Alex’s take: I think BPD is otherwise normal female behavior that is magnified to an extreme degree. I said extreme. Read through some of the signs and symptoms; erratic emotions, radical fluctuations in self esteem, impulsive behavior, irrational thinking, and blaming those closest to them for the way they feel---this is all women. The difference is that in most healthy women it is very mild and they are able to self-regulate these negative feelings that everyone experiences at times. And that’s not to say men cannot be affected, but women are certainly predisposed to it. BPD is clinically much more common than BP or schizophrenia, according to my source, although less well-known.

It does seem like the BPD tag gets thrown around here a lot because of the number of related threads hanging at the top of the que. I am not an expert on the subject, nor do I claim to have any personal experience with one. But I think it would pay for us to familiarize ourselves with the clinical and anecdotal presentations so we can be aware if (or when) we encounter such a woman.

 

[SoCalMike]

Not to get further off-topic, but attention deficit is a legitimate psychological condition. It IS treatable, and it is not always related to a lack of discipline in childhood. I think it is partly heritable. The problem with this condition is that it is often over-diagnosed. Some kids (and adults) are just spazoids who need to get their act together. Or they are just hyper, restless kids who are bored to tears in school. This doesn't always mean something is psychologically wrong.

How many is "some", and how do you distinguish them from the 'real' cases?

 

[SoCalMike]

Are you sure about that chief?

Seratonin levels DETERMINE mood. Low seratonin= all kinds of problems. Many things can lower seratonin levels, which means that yes, indeed, chemical imbalances can and do create mental problems.

Wrong, there is no such thing as chemical imbalance.

Seratonin levels do influence mood, but they are the RESULT of emotions, not the cause of it.

Example: you Mom dies in car accident. You get depressed. Your seratonin levels are low AS A RESULT and are not the cause of your depression.

It doesn't necessarily have to be due to excessive drug use, chemical imbalances can be caused by stress, diet, genetics, etc.

Absolutely. And you just argued my point (except for the genetics part) It's not a disease. It's diet, stress, etc which can be overcome by a change in behavior/environment. You don't need to give a pill manufacturer and some quack hundreds of dollars for counseling and drugs.

You would have us believe that everyone's brain chemistry is the same, that it is static, that it cannot influence behavior or moods. You are very wrong.

No, that' is not my argument at all. My argument is, a person can become depressed for many reasons, but it is NOT a 'disease'.

You remind me of the quacks who label obesity and alcoholism "diseases".

I started reading the book, and coincidentally I had gone out drinking the two nights before. I felt like absolute GARBAGE the day I started reading the book. Not really hung over (I hadn't had THAT much to drink) but more like in a mental fog, drained, depressed....I can't even describe it. It sucked.

Anyway, I started to see the direction the book was going (treating depression with amino acids and vitamins) and I got to a chapter where the author said that when she has a day where she feels depressed, she takes a couple of tyrosine capsules and pops a couple of vitamin b12 tablets under her tongue, and she feels fine for the rest of the day.

Immediately I went to the vitamin store and picked up a bottle of each. I took a couple of each that evening and seemed to feel better. Been taking the same thing every day since last Friday and I have felt like a new man ever since.

I'm not ready to say that it "cured" me, but something had a very positive effect on me. The program she recommends actually calls for more vitamins and amino acids, but I don't want to spend the money on them all right now, and if what i am doing isn't broken I'm not going to try to fix it.

My guess is that my diet (low calorie weight loss diet) coupled with alcohol consumption was depleting my body of vitamins. A little research showed me that alcohol tends to do this.

So basically, the way I was treating my body was putting a tremendous strain on my mind. My brain wasn't getting the nutrients required to produce sufficient quantities of norepinepherine and seratonin.

The author of this book is a doctor, and is not pushing pills. Actually quite the contrary. I know it's hard to wrap your brain around something you have never experienced and you sound like the kind of person who thinks that the entire medical community is in a conspiracy to get your money, but you really should become a little bit better informed before you claim that most people's mental issues are imaginary.

Everything you just said proves my point. You did not have a DISEASE. You did not need Prozac, Zoloft, etc. Also, you are aware of the placebo effect, yeah? And, of course, who would argue that taking vitamins WON'T help you feel better? Certainly, some things you put in your body will help you, others harm you, others have no effect. This has nothing to do with my point: there is no such thing as Bi-Polar and ADHD. People have mood swings/depression for vaious reasons (which you have listed, such as drinking, stress). Kids are hyper/inattentive for various reasons (like dicipline/too much sugar). That is all. To label these things as disorders and prescribe drugs for them is a scam.

I do trust the medical community in cases where their methods are based on sound scientific principles. Which is the majority. But that is 99% in the PHYSICAL realm, since they cannot lie about things like cancer. Either you have cancer, or you don't, and it will be quite obvious what the truth is. But these fake mental "illnesses"/"disorders"/"diseases" are, 9 times out of 10, diagnosed on nothing but a list of behaviors. Sorry that doesn't cut it. That is junk science.

 

[Ballie]

Kontroller X "Sometimes the Cluster B just leaves with no explanation and you are forced to confront the emotional wreckage you are left with. People that this happens to are luckier than they realize as these Cluster B trainwrecks can go on for years. Some horror stories I've read have been nons being married to them for 20 years and using support forums to cope with all their cheating, lying and raging."

That is me he is referring to. You other guys know nothing about how wicked these women are to you and how sweet and innocent they appear to others - who believe that it is all your fault. But you and your kids know better. How can you leave if they are terrified every times she starts to drink?

There are a lot of women like that out there and it is an ancient disease. Read in the bible about Samson and John the baptist - not mere stories. I know how to identify them now, any flaky behaviour, Im gone.

 

[KontrollerX]

"KontrollerX and STR8UP are the dudes with 3 and 5 THOUSAND posts on this board. Do you guys have jobs/lives? LOL Seriously."

SocalMike is a dude with 367 posts and has been coming back to an online forum for three years to deal with issues he can't handle himself. Does he have a job? Does he have a life?? LOL seriously.

Oh wait whats that?

SocalMike is no better or less of a nerd than anyone here??

Yep, what a shocker.

 

[darkstarrr]

I have to admit this topic is very very iteresting. I appreciate all of the hard work everyone has put into this discussion. It has really given me an opportunity to reflect and come to the following conclusions.

The mental illness thing can be very very tricky. When you meet the type of woman who is more prone to date around and who is not interested in a relationship - and you are with her over time, what can happen is that you can naturally get emotionally involved with her. Nest what can happen is when she meets other guys and becomes interested in hooking up with them because they make her feel good, she can start acting up and displaying some or even many of the qualities that Kontroller has helped us to learn to recognize as typical for BPD and HPD. Unfortunately in some of these cases what will happen is the girl will go and be with someone else and be completely happy and function completely normally, even if she is the type of person who has a lot of baggage from her childhood. I believe the above may be possible without a disorder being present.

Moving forward there are many cases where I believe there does exist a BPD or HPD but unfortunaly or fortunatley again, I have seen cases where the girl grows out of it at a certain time in her life when she feels it is important to settle down. Because of her environment, and how old she is etc - her mentality changes and she adapts like a fvcking cvnt to the ever changing world and she will display less and less of the qualities we have come to learn on this board as red flags.

What I am getting at here is that SOCIETY and the girls ENVIRONMENT play an enormous role in developing women and men into the people who they are. As time passes and things change in peoples lives where they are forced to make serious decisions and have RESPONSIBILITY, is that once again society and environment are adapted to.

In conclusion: as much suffering and pain and hurt that can occur in the world, it is very important for each and every one of us men on this board to be as aware as possible for whom they get involved with. I realize it can be very difficult at times because we like to be with a girl who is good looking etc. But I cannot stress it enough that we must find people to date who are less and less prone to having a view of the world as one of these chics who dates around etc etc. Because what will inevitably end up happening is that you will become emotionally involved and she will fvcking leave you at the drop of a hat. We need to find women who are religous perhaps, or ones that do not sleep around after a relationship ends to make themselves "feel better". That is the type of **** that really pisses me off people. How the fvck are any of us supposed to have a normal fvcking relationship where we cannot even have a week or a few days break with our significant other without them sleeping with someone instantly?

I don't believe we should argue with each other here. We have all come here for one reason or another, but the bottom line is we are all trying to not only improve and reduce the amount of suffering we endure in our lives, but also how to meet good women who we will be happy with.

 

[STR8UP]

Wrong, there is no such thing as chemical imbalance.

Seratonin levels do influence mood, but they are the RESULT of emotions, not the cause of it.

Example: you Mom dies in car accident. You get depressed. Your seratonin levels are low AS A RESULT and are not the cause of your depression.

This is a chicken/egg debate that science has yet to find a definitive answer to.

Absolutely. And you just argued my point (except for the genetics part) It's not a disease. It's diet, stress, etc which can be overcome by a change in behavior/environment. You don't need to give a pill manufacturer and some quack hundreds of dollars for counseling and drugs.

I won't say that every mental illness diagnosis is correct or that everyone who shows a few symptoms needs pills, but for you to simply write off 99% of it at "well you need to change your diet and exercise" is NOT a catch all solution to a problem. Sometimes you can exercise and eat right all you want (which is what I was doing),, and STILL have issues that can most effectively be treated with drugs or dietary supplements.

No, that' is not my argument at all. My argument is, a person can become depressed for many reasons, but it is NOT a 'disease'.

You remind me of the quacks who label obesity and alcoholism "diseases".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disease

1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

Sounds like all of these things could be categorized as a "disease".

You can be genetically predisposed to alcoholism, obesity, AND mental illness. Does this mean that you have no control over it? Of course not. but different people's bodies and brains work differently, putting them at an automatic "disadvantage" when it comes to the likelihood that they might become obese, an alcoholic, or mentally ill.

\

Certainly, some things you put in your body will help you, others harm you, others have no effect.

If it were this simple, everyone would react the same to drugs, diet, etc..

The fact of the matter is that my body is likely to react differently than yours which goes to show that the levels of certain chemicals in one persons body is different than in another, and the way one person's body processes chemicals is different than the next.

It isn't 100% one way or the other, as you would like for us to believe.

If I told you I took meds that helped relieve depression brought on by severe stress, what are you going to tell me? It was "placebo effect"?

This has nothing to do with my point: there is no such thing as Bi-Polar and ADHD. People have mood swings/depression for vaious reasons (which you have listed, such as drinking, stress). Kids are hyper/inattentive for various reasons (like dicipline/too much sugar). That is all. To label these things as disorders and prescribe drugs for them is a scam.

Yea, and everyone out there who sells information on how to become wealthy or how to pick up women is a scam artist too, right?

You have a conspiracy theory mentality, and there is nothing i can do to change that. People like you will go through your entire life worried about being scammed at the expense of possibly bettering yourself. Have at it my friend....

I do trust the medical community in cases where their methods are based on sound scientific principles. Which is the majority. But that is 99% in the PHYSICAL realm, since they cannot lie about things like cancer. Either you have cancer, or you don't, and it will be quite obvious what the truth is. But these fake mental "illnesses"/"disorders"/"diseases" are, 9 times out of 10, diagnosed on nothing but a list of behaviors. Sorry that doesn't cut it. That is junk science.

So basically, if it isn't a PHYSICAL disorder that you can actually SEE, or if the medical community doesn't fully understand it such as is the case with most mental illnesses, then it doesn't exist, right?

Serotonin levels in the brain cannot be tested. Does this mean that a person who gets relief from depression with an SSRI is a VICTIM of "junk science"? I would beg to differ.

 

[PTC]

that's because the vast majority of them are not diagnosed, for a variety of reasons. One, they aren't introspective and the last thing they want to do is go to some Psych and get diagnosed. Second, when they do happen to go, they are more than likely able to fool or con therapsists or tell them exactly what they want to hear. Most therapsists are no match for BPD people and get very little training in diagnosing them. In fact I am quite sure there are at least four or five people here that are way more adept at diagnosing them than the average therapist is. Finally, most therapists don't want to label and stigmatize a woman with the BPD imprimatur. They are loathe to brand someone with an illness with such a hopeless outlook and poor recovery rate, and they may not get insurance plans to cover treatment if they label a person with a PD because if they do the insurance company would want a specialist to treat her. The doctor could lose a patient simply because of the label. It's much more common to just roll along the lazy river just listening to the sob story for an hour once a week. I know this because I had a GF who would go and "toy" with her therapist once a week, mostly figuring out "together" how to make me the bad guy.

wait,....did we date the same girl?? :crackup:

 

[Road Demon]

SolCal Mike:

Actually, you are Quite INCORRECT.

Your argument is flawed on many levels and takes away (as Colossus pointed out) on the real question that was asked. Personal attacks to long term posters don't assist in the validity of your argument either.

BPD is a cluster of maladaptive behaviors that certain individuals possess that severely impact there normal relation to the world (that’s why it’s actually called a syndrome or disorder, NOT disease). What we see a cluster of EXTREME behaviors that we all normal individuals experience (like anger, sadness, feeling of worthlessness, etc) that affect us for short period of time. In many personality disorders (i.e. BPD), this extreme behavior is extremely disruptive and unproductive in terms of social relationships (family, work, romantic). During period of Stress, these negative personality traits are much more pronounced (and unusually long lasted as compared to 'normal relating individual').

Expression of traits = genetics + environment.

Based on your comments, it is obvious YOU know little about science, hypothesis driven science in particular. Their is whole intracellular world that most people can't even think to fathom...

FYI: There are many types of neurotransmitters: not just 5-HT (Serotonin), but Dopamine, GABA, AcH, NE, Aspartate, Adenosine, GTP, cAMP, to name a few. These mentioned the just small molecule ones; we are not even addressing the cell membrane lipid signaling molecules. Nor the global effects of circulating blood hormones such as the steroid hormones, the peptide ones (i.e. T3/T4), that are all part of an integrated neuroendocrine response to stress.

Each molecule has specific cell receptors that initiates cascade of intracellular communication, and the same molecule many have different affects just based on cell type. All of these signals are integrated at individual neuron, then neural network, then regions of the brain, and each region of the brain all affect our behavior. This well beyond the scope of this discussion, but bottom line all this information is integrated at many levels.

Just because 'science' has not come to specific Neurotransmitter to a specific 'mental' condition it does not mean that molecule is unlinked to the condition. It really becomes the issue the we can disprove the hypothesis that it is the case. ie the experiment or detection technique has not become available.

 

[Janez]

Just for a note. Very respected therapist here in my country answered some of my questions on email and she said simpy: "Patients with diagnosis borderline I don't treat".

She is expert in treating relationship addiction and other non-drug based addictions (like gambling etc.). She just don't take Borderline because they are too hard to handle.

And considering the way the catch you and and not let you out this is not something surprising. My simple advice would be "If you find a BPD girl, leave her before she sucks you in too much". Some guys are not even attracted to such behaviour and can easily spot them as not healthy or fruitful, but some of us that are lacking on some areas of our lives and have developed a co-dependency "syndrome" will easily get sucked in and the longer the story, the harder the story will be.

I have been with BPD wasting my own life, sanity and energy for 4.5 years. Now I use antidepressants (+anti anxiety and anti social phobia) for 1 month and I had cut visual/phone contact with her... and I am feeling much better.

1 thing that is very interesting is that I can simply throw all my anger and all my twisted and offensive thoughts on her through msn and she will just listen and whatever. I doubt I could call any sane person "b*tch" so many times and thats not even close to only thing I've told her.

Best regards and take care.

 

[SoCalMike]

SocalMike is a dude with 367 posts and has been coming back to an online forum for three years to deal with issues he can't handle himself. Does he have a job? Does he have a life?? LOL seriously.

This board is a distraction for me while I'm at work. The sites I'd rather be on are blocked (e.g. myspace). I post here while I'm waiting for code to build.

Again, you have how many thousands of posts?

 

[SoCalMike]

Yea, and everyone out there who sells information on how to become wealthy or how to pick up women is a scam artist too, right?

Yes, you're either:

A)Paying for knowledge you can obtain on your own for free

B)Paying for lies

Take these real estate gurus for example. If you can make thousands or even millions in a short time, as they claim, wouldn't that be a better investment of time than selling books and increasing your competition?

And what could they POSSIBLY tell you that's such a guarded secret, that nobody else knows because only this one guy is smart enough to figure out? Out of all the millions of people out there in the real estate market, buying and selling, only this one dude knows these incredible secrets, right? LOL

As for the picking up women stuff, not much different. While the info may help you to some degree, it will not overcome serious things like being obese, ugly, short, or dressing like a dweeb. If a fat ass, or 5'2" guy reads these books, can he lay HB10's?

There are so many scams out there, it's mind boggling... that's what late night infomercials are all about... milking suckers out of their money. It's big business.

I'm not saying I haven't fallen for this stuff. I bought Bill Phillip's "Body for Life" and even tried his disgusting MyoPlex powder when I was in my early 20's. It didn't take me long to realize that:

A)The exercise info in the book could be found online for free
B) The book was 50% an ad for Myoplex
C) Drinking Myoplex did not have any noticeable benefit


The pill/shrink industry and their fake "mental disorders" are just an extension of this. It's not about always seeing something PHYSICAL, it's about hard science, and rigorous testing. You can't see electrons, but we deduce they exist using an entire host of scientific principles which ARE NOT APPLIED in the case of the pill/shrink industry.

You can't just say "oh, you're really depressed one day, and the next you're really happy? Ok, you're Bi-Polar, here's a prescription for Zoloft". That's not science.

It's clear that you are not going to understand this point, no matter how many times I repeat it, so I suppose we should just drop it.

 

[SoCalMike]

SolCal Mike:

Actually, you are Quite INCORRECT.

Your argument is flawed on many levels and takes away (as Colossus pointed out) on the real question that was asked. Personal attacks to long term posters don't assist in the validity of your argument either.

BPD is a cluster of maladaptive behaviors that certain individuals possess that severely impact there normal relation to the world (that’s why it’s actually called a syndrome or disorder, NOT disease). What we see a cluster of EXTREME behaviors that we all normal individuals experience (like anger, sadness, feeling of worthlessness, etc) that affect us for short period of time. In many personality disorders (i.e. BPD), this extreme behavior is extremely disruptive and unproductive in terms of social relationships (family, work, romantic). During period of Stress, these negative personality traits are much more pronounced (and unusually long lasted as compared to 'normal relating individual').

Expression of traits = genetics + environment.

Based on your comments, it is obvious YOU know little about science, hypothesis driven science in particular. Their is whole intracellular world that most people can't even think to fathom...

FYI: There are many types of neurotransmitters: not just 5-HT (Serotonin), but Dopamine, GABA, AcH, NE, Aspartate, Adenosine, GTP, cAMP, to name a few. These mentioned the just small molecule ones; we are not even addressing the cell membrane lipid signaling molecules. Nor the global effects of circulating blood hormones such as the steroid hormones, the peptide ones (i.e. T3/T4), that are all part of an integrated neuroendocrine response to stress.

Each molecule has specific cell receptors that initiates cascade of intracellular communication, and the same molecule many have different affects just based on cell type. All of these signals are integrated at individual neuron, then neural network, then regions of the brain, and each region of the brain all affect our behavior. This well beyond the scope of this discussion, but bottom line all this information is integrated at many levels.

Just because 'science' has not come to specific Neurotransmitter to a specific 'mental' condition it does not mean that molecule is unlinked to the condition. It really becomes the issue the we can disprove the hypothesis that it is the case. ie the experiment or detection technique has not become available.

Actually, I am an Engineer and have a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science so your assumption that I know nothing of science is arrogant and false.

Furthermore, most of what you wrote backs up my argument. That is to say: we do not fully understand all of the complex chemical processes of the human mind and body.

Therefore, it follows that to make a judgment that someone has a "disease" or "disorder" SOLELY by asking questions about behaviour is not accurate - i.e. not real science.

And, as I have already stated, external events can change your biochemistry. Just because someone is depressed one day, and happy the next, tells you very little, yet limited information such as this is used as the basis of diagnosis in many cases.

The argument is NOT that there are no genuine cases of mental disorders, some of which may be rooted in a genetic problem, a virus, bacteria, etc. The argument is that IN FAR TOO MANY CASES today, diagnosis are made, and drugs are prescribed, with little more than questions being asked about feelings and behaviour. And this my friend, is not real science.

FACT: many people are out to milk suckers out of their money
FACT: people fall victim to scams involving things which cannot be easily proved or disproved.

Even if you don't understand science, you should be aware of these two facts.

I don't have the time or inclination to argue anymore about this. I'm just repeating myself and it's getting old.

 

[SoCalMike]

One final thought on this: beware of women who use the 'mental illness' excuse.

Anyone can treat you like sh*t and claim to have a disorder.