This Mental Illness thing with women is SCARY

[MisterSinister]

I'm interested in finding out where you guys are finding these women at.

 

[dubAllStar]

I'm interested in finding out where you guys are finding these women at.

Trust me, Sinister, you don't want to know. Unless, of course, you would like to know just so you can avoid it like the fvcking plague.

 

[betterthandead]

Everyone is crazy, you should want to hook up with someone that's as crazy as you are. Some DJs on here are pretty high on the creep levels

 

[mtnkng]

One mechanism or tool the PD uses to rope a person in is sex. Studies are showing that BPDs do not have the same responses to the "bonding" chemical, oxytocin, that is released during sex. You get lured in early in the relationship with porn star sex....and lots of it. Your body is flooded with oxytocin and you begin to trust. Her body is also flooded with oxytocin, but BPDs don't have the same number of receptors as the non. They don't build trust thru sex. The push/pull tactics creep in....the non provides validation by keeping the relationship going and proposing undieing love.

Usually, this validation isnt enough and the BPD will look elsewhere for more validation.

Im pretty sure I've seen stats that place the percentage closer to 10% of the women are afflicted with BPD. More women are diagnosed with BPD than men. More men are diagnosed with NPD (Narcisissm) than women, but women are more likely to seek out mental professionals than men, so the dxs may be skewed for men. Further, the nature of PDs makes the afflicted not seek out professional help....skewing the dxs.

PDs can get into recovery - never really cured. It is a disorder of the personality....so deep seated that tons of therapy and maintenance meds are needed to learn how to be an emotional adult. The MH and pharma industries are starting to learn much about these disorders and advances have been made in the last few decades.

However, its obvious that people with PDs exist. Some of the things we learn here or are passed down from our fathers help us to watch for red flags. More important is to not ignore the red flags. Sure, the sex with these nut jobs can be great, but so can sex with high quality women who aren't disordered. You can seek out the crazies and have crazy sex, but you place yourself in significant risk.

My advice is to seek out high quality women and minimize contact with nut jobs (well nuttier than the normal woman).

 

[MisterSinister]

Trust me, Sinister, you don't want to know. Unless, of course, you would like to know just so you can avoid it like the fvcking plague.

I'm not asking because I want some of that craziness in my life LOL. I'm just wondering if these guys are just attracted to this type of woman and if they are meeting them at places like bars or clubs.

 

[Janez]

bars, clubs and internet are great places flooded with such women. my share of nuts was found on internet.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Ok, I'll ask directly. How exactly do "Cluster B" women MAKE somebody fall in love with them?

What is the process? How long does it take? How exactly does she manage to MAKE you relinquish your control of your emotions and your responses the the world? Is there ANY voluntary involvement on the part of the victim?"

I'm glad you brought up hypnosis even if you were joking because thats exactly what Al Bernstein psych doc and author of the book Emotional Vampires says that Cluster B's do to ensnare their victims.

In normal healthy relationships both parties are together from a place of honesty via loving the genuine transparent qualities of the other party. No one has to make anyone fall in love with the other in this type of healthy normal relationship because attraction and desire and the eventual emotional attachment are not at all faked from either side. The man and the woman genuinely love, lust and desire one another based on genuine honest things.

In Cluster B relationships the entire relationship is pretend for one party of it.
These people scan the horizon for victims. People that have just been through devastating emotional turmoil or someone that thinks very highly of themself that they can manipulate through praising that person in just the way they like it. Cluster B are always looking for an angle to begin their hypnotic dance with those that they would target. They I would argue can literally make another person love them not through force but through hypnosis. Like a virus or infection slowly creeping up on you their words go right beneath the surface of your subconscious and stick there. You both could start out as simply friends or the Cluster B is simply regarded as an aquaintance you talk to from time to time and those type of things would be in my opinion the only voluntary part of the interaction on the victim's part. The rest is well crafted hypnotism on the part of someone who was born to be a hypnotist.

Lastly you ask how long does the process take?

I answer as long as it takes.

Another word for Cluster B hypnosis has been called grooming where they slowly chip away at your natural defenses.

Then they can begin their evil work of shaping you to be their verbal or physical punching bag or to be their sex slave or to commit a felony for them. Whatever they want basically and you'll do it because you've been so gradually hypnotized and made dependent on them you know that you will lose your drug fix which is them if you do not comply and to most Cluster B victims losing the manipulative Cluster B scum is a fate worse than death because of how powerfully the hypnosis has impacted us.

Finally and to make this huge point about how they perform hypnosis so expertly I will tell you it is done through a process of mirroring. They will show you the good person that you are or would like to be, that perfect vision of yourself through them and all the things about yourself that you may of neglected to love they will appear to love making you re-examine that aspect of yourself and begin to love it too due to the Cluster B's faked and well plotted enthusiasm about it.

They will build you up like a god basically and suddenly when you are as in love with them as you can ever possibly be or you are going through a hard time in your life when you need them the most suddenly the bad behavior on their part starts or they outright leave you for some random guy they met the day before you and she were supposed to be married. So many horror stories I've read about these sick people make my own pale in comparison. Then of course the guy not knowing what has happened to him thinks he is still in love and doesn't realize how hypnotized and violated emotionally he is begins chasing the girl who now hates his guts and is offering no explanation for what has happened and whats worse is she seems to hate him more as he makes it clear to her that he is a person too deserving of respect.

No you are not a person in a Cluster B's world. You are an object to her no better than a toaster and if she decides you are old and she needs a new toaster well you are an inanimate object in her sick world so you better not say anything because an object does not talk back to its master!

"And if so, when you Fall out of love, or recover (as you obviously have done) is it because you get hold of your senses, or her power over you weakens for some reason, or both?"

It can be any or all of these really.

Sometimes the Cluster B goes too far and a person is suddenly woken up to how far they've fallen and how they don't recognize themself in the mirror anymore and then they get away. Something happens to finally shake them awake and make them realize this cannot be real love or they deserve better than what they've been given.

Sometimes the Cluster B just leaves with no explanation and you are forced to confront the emotional wreckage you are left with. People that this happens to are luckier than they realize as these Cluster B trainwrecks can go on for years. Some horror stories I've read have been nons being married to them for 20 years and using support forums to cope with all their cheating, lying and raging.

 

[Trajhenkhet01]

It is. Thing with mental illness is, that its never quite a clear cut case of it, a person can have multiple dysfunctions on top of one diagnosed. Also not everyone will have all symptoms. Some have it to higher degrees than others. I suppose we are all crazy, but as a rule I try not take my insanity out on other people.

 

[darkstarrr]

In Cluster B relationships the entire relationship is pretend for one party of it. These people scan the horizon for victims. People that have just been through devastating emotional turmoil or someone that thinks very highly of themself that they can manipulate through praising that person in just the way they like it. Cluster B are always looking for an angle to begin their hypnotic dance with those that they would target. They I would argue can literally make another person love them not through force but through hypnosis. Like a virus or infection slowly creeping up on you their words go right beneath the surface of your subconscious and stick there. You both could start out as simply friends or the Cluster B is simply regarded as an aquaintance you talk to from time to time and those type of things would be in my opinion the only voluntary part of the interaction on the victim's part. The rest is well crafted hypnotism on the part of someone who was born to be a hypnotist.

Then they can begin their evil work of shaping you to be their verbal or physical punching bag or to be their sex slave or to commit a felony for them. Whatever they want basically and you'll do it because you've been so gradually hypnotized and made dependent on them you know that you will lose your drug fix which is them if you do not comply and to most Cluster B victims losing the manipulative Cluster B scum is a fate worse than death because of how powerfully the hypnosis has impacted us.

They will build you up like a god basically and suddenly when you are as in love with them as you can ever possibly be or you are going through a hard time in your life when you need them the most suddenly the bad behavior on their part starts or they outright leave you for some random guy they met the day before you and she were supposed to be married. So many horror stories I've read about these sick people make my own pale in comparison. Then of course the guy not knowing what has happened to him thinks he is still in love and doesn't realize how hypnotized and violated emotionally he is begins chasing the girl who now hates his guts and is offering no explanation for what has happened and whats worse is she seems to hate him more as he makes it clear to her that he is a person too deserving of respect.

Jees. As I read posts like this my denial that there was something wrong with my ex starts to fade more and more. As my ego is healing and I continually battle with the "is there something wrong with me (not attractive etc) VS. is there something wrong with her" - reading the above helps me to understand more clearly that these kind of people are like actresses who can pretend their way through life so as to get what they want, and feed their own egos, etc.

Everything I read by Kontroller on this subject has been a godsend because it describes to the T the type of BS I went through.

I am beginning to refuse to believe that there is any possibility that my situation was one where the girl simply wanted to breakup and began acting that way. The hyper sex drive, the sudden change in attitude and behavior literally the moment I began expressing my feelings for her were deepening. The promiscuous past filled with cheating and hurt. It's all becoming so clear.

In no way am I trying to come off as masogynist or whatever. I am just trying to provide feedback and interact in an attempt to not only heal as normally as I can, but also for when other innocent victims who reach out for help and find this site will be able to refer to useful information related to their own nightmares.

 

[MisterSinister]

Yes I have heard the internet is a great place to find crazy women. Most guys that use the internet for chicks are doing so because they want to find easy lays. So I don't think they are really concerned with the mental health status of the women.

 

[dubAllStar]

Everything I read by Kontroller on this subject has been a godsend because it describes to the T the type of BS I went through.

Seconded. Kontroller's posts have basically been my therapy throughout my BPD situation.

I have to say that, although the situation was completely fvcked for me (and still is on a certain level), I have learned a great deal about myself throughout the whole thing.

 

[jophil28]

Seconded. Kontroller's posts have basically been my therapy throughout my BPD situation.

I have to say that, although the situation was completely fvcked for me (and still is on a certain level), I have learned a great deal about myself throughout the whole thing.

It is also NOT in your interest to buy into the new agey crap which lectures the gullible to be "responsible for all your life experiences". You are not responsible for the behavior of the mentally ill con artist which is the BPD women, nor are you at fault for allowing yourself to fully 'feel' and invest in an emotional connection with someone who is an expert in exploiting others.
Having said that, we are now responsible for NOT dating another one these creatures.

Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[SoCalMike]

I very much disagree.

I have SEEN these women who I know to have this diagnosis when they were both manic and depressive.

I even had a tenant in one of my condos awhile back who I pegged for being a total bipolar WHACKO without even knowing her on a personal level. one day she would call me up with an issue and would be sweet as pie, and not in a fake way at all (that I could tell). the next time she would call me up with an even smaller problem and she was an absolute raging B!TCH. I knew other people who had spent a little time with her and they knew the kind of a headcase she was. The last I heard of her was a voicemail she left me when she moved out of the place calling me a "sh!thead" and telling me that she "hopes I get what I have coming to me". Because she hadn't paid the rent and thought that I had her car towed (which I did not).

Trust me, these women are out there.

Yeah, they are out there, and they don't have a disease, they're just acting like cvnts.

There may be a tiny few cases where a person has an actual mental disorder, but probably 75-90% of the so-called "bi-polar" types are just "oh poor me" AW's and losers who want to blame their bad behavior and problems on a "disease".

"Poor old me, I have bi-polar. That's why I took a piss on you and acted like a cvnt. Poor me, I can't help it. Poor old me, I'm on Prozac - I'm such a Kurt Cobain anti-hero cool person, look at me"

or..

the ***** acts like a "whaco" as you put it, simply because THERE ARE NO REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR ACTING THIS WAY and it pleases her to do so.

You really fall for this excuse that it's a disease? Ridiculous. Listen, if we were living in old times, where a woman would face serious consequences for acting like a complete b*tch, you would see less of it, trust me. Same with kids with "ADHD" - i.e. lack of dicipline.

Where was bi-polar and ADHD 60 years ago? Certainly wasn't as common huh?

Funny thing that 60 years ago the pill and shrink industry weren't so bloated either... hmmm....

 

[SoCalMike]

I know some folks with serious BPD... they are on meds. If they stop taking them they have to be hospitalized Their lives are in constant turmoil. It is real.

Possibly, but like you said genuine cases are a very tiny number. And even in these cases, to call it a disease may be a stretch. A disease, is something that is caused by abnormal cells, virus, or other pathogen. Being depressed is hardly enough to diagnose a "disease". Neither is a "chemical imbalance" since there is no such thing. Chemicals in the brain will be different if you're depressed, but that is A RESULT OF THE DEPRESSION ITSELF, not a root cause.

These days, every other girl you meet is "BPD". It's a load of crap.

 

[SoCalMike]

How do you measure pathological lying? How is it different from normal lying?


intense according to what scale? Whose criteria?


rapid? how fast? is there a specific cut off? How intense is the anger? How deep is the sadness? How exactly do you measure this, is it a blood test?


ok, here is something you can actually measure and observe


make somebody else fall in love with you? how do you MAKE somebody else fall in love with you? How exactly can you mimick a myth?


ok, another measurable thing.


death defying? like Evil Keneival death defying? Mental Turmoil?


hyper according to who? More than 5 partners in a lifetime is hyper to many people. More than 5 in a month is normal to some people



offical according to who?

The only two things that are not subjective in the above is self mutilation and substance abuse. And if that is not a deal breaker right off the bat, well, God help you.

Thank you for this. YOu just exposed the fraud that is modern "psychology" or "psychiatry"

It's a huge scam to milk money from suckers.

Not to say it's all junk science, but much of it is. As you have revealed, far too often the diagnosis of a "disorder" or "disease" is based on criteria that are abstract, or totally subjective.

Anyone could walk into a clinic, and be diagnosed as having some 'mental illness' by simply making up BS and telling the doctor.

The doctor wants to take your money, and to sell you pills.

 

[jophil28]

Same with kids with "ADHD" - i.e. lack of dicipline.

Where was bi-polar and ADHD 60 years ago? Certainly wasn't as common huh?

Funny thing that 60 years ago the pill and shrink industry weren't so bloated either... hmmm....

I have a good medico friend who specialises in treating children and family dramas.
He says " ADHD stand for "Absent Dad, Hopeless Discipline "

He is probably on to something there.

 

[jophil28]

The doctor wants to take your money, and to sell you pills.

Don't forget the "counselors" and the "therapists " who all "understand your issues " and want to sell you two years worth of appointments...

"Same time next Thursday, MIkey ?"

 

[STR8UP]

Where was bi-polar and ADHD 60 years ago? Certainly wasn't as common huh?

My nephew has ADHD. Went to the doctor and got on the right meds and he's a changed person. I watched him grow up, and I can assure you his problems were related to brain chemistry, and had little to nothing to do with how he grew up.

You are one of the same kind of people who would see my little brother misbehaving in public and blame it on "bad parenting", despite the fact that the the other three kids grew up perfectly normal and well adjusted.

My brother is 33 and had been in and out of jail/prison his entire life. I have managed to accomplish more in my 37 years than most people would in three lifetimes. Started numerous businesses, and owned millions of dollars worth of real estate. My two sisters are both happy and successful. How do you reconcile this?

60 years ago there was no television. There was no internet. There were no video games. Not too many women were "career" women. The world has changed drastically in the past 60 years. Even moreso than the 1000 years before that.

Hmmm.....

Possibly, but like you said genuine cases are a very tiny number. And even in these cases, to call it a disease may be a stretch. A disease, is something that is caused by abnormal cells, virus, or other pathogen. Being depressed is hardly enough to diagnose a "disease". Neither is a "chemical imbalance" since there is no such thing. Chemicals in the brain will be different if you're depressed, but that is A RESULT OF THE DEPRESSION ITSELF, not a root cause.

I'd like to see some scientific proof of what you are saying, because I can tell you that you have no clue what you are talking about.

By your "reasoning" it is not possible for a person to fukk up their seratonin production for the rest of their life by using too much X. I'm pretty sure the majority of the medical community would disagree with you.

 

[KontrollerX]

SocalMike is just another one of those guys that knows more than the rest of us that needs to run into a Borderline and go through the gradual process of hypnotism and mental destruction and resulting PTSD before he'll ever understand and concede that its a real illness that actually exists.

Same for that Tokyo_Taco guy that should of been banned ages ago from this place for being a huge troll and general douchebag.

And for more information SocalMike...

"A disease, is something that is caused by abnormal cells, virus, or other pathogen. "

There is evidence the brain/cells of a Borderline are different than that of a normal person's due to either them being born that way or the emotional trauma of what happened to them as a youngster via abandonment causing their brain to literally change in some dramatic way.

The brain change happens to people that get PTSD as well be it from being in a war or dealing with one of these people and being horrifically victimized by them.

Guys like you again will just never get it or accept it unless you go through it and when and if you do all the apologies soon follow of you guys were right, I can't believe what an idiot I was, etc, etc.

So go on believing its fake and if you ever run into one let us all know how that works out for you ok?

We won't say I told you so we'll simply say we're sorry we couldn't get it through your thick skull the reality of the condition and we'll try harder next time to prevent other posters and lurkers from getting victimized too through continued awareness.

"These days, every other girl you meet is "BPD". It's a load of crap."

Understand guys here like jophil, Str8up, myself, reset and others don't throw out the BPD label for a typical sour grapes situation, we need to see a cluster of symptoms from a poster before we'll even mention it and since this is a forum that attracts guys with troubled relationships you are going to see a higher number of guys that are or have been involved with BPD's on this forum.

Its not at all misogyny for us to use the label or us encouraging guys to avoid taking responsibility for a relationship's failure by labelling every relationship thats gone sour a BPD relationship as we don't do that for every relationship we give advice about on here, you and other posters that believe as you do are just talking out of your asses when you say that.

As again we only bring up the BPD diagnosis when there is a strong cluster of symptoms present and the topic creator seems to be thoroughly lost in the delusion which reminds we former victims of ourselves during our own experience and once all these things add up we then bust out the BPD label.

We don't do this for every last post.

For example I and other posters have told the poster Fela Kuti repeatedly that his relationship is destructive and that he should get out of it but nothing that he has told us of his girlfriend indicates BPD so no one has ever brought that up nor do I suspect BPD in her. I just think they have personality's that clash badly from what he has written and I and others have told him he should stop putting up with that hassle as a result.

He won't though of course because he is a huge AFC with scarcity mentality that doesn't think he will find anyone else but there you have it just one of many instances where the BPD label was never brought up.

"Listen, if we were living in old times, where a woman would face serious consequences for acting like a complete b*tch, you would see less of it, trust me. Same with kids with "ADHD" - i.e. lack of dicipline."

No, you'd just hear less about it on the news because back in the old prude-ish pie in the sky everything is wonderful 50's where racism, ignorance and domestic violence doesn't exist the news media wouldn't want to run stories about that non existant thing known as domestic violence or crimes of passion such as murders surrounding love triangles.

The old way of dealing with things such as beating a woman up or hitting a woman would not erase BPD behavior. The cheating, lying and drinking like a fish would continue, there'd just be higher consequences for it but what you fail to realize is Cluster B does not learn from or alter their behavior due to punishment so all that would result would be a clash of wills from the traditional abusive lay down the law kind of man and the insane borderline and what would most likely result is a dead woman, a dead woman and her lover or a woman that regularly gets beat up but still rages, cheats and lies and does all the other destructive behavior that is inherint of BPD.

The old way of handling problems would not fix anything at all it would just up the drama and carnage.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

Thats all that would result from your 1950's idea of dealing with a Borderline problem.

The man that would use violence or intimidation just becomes a similar monster to the BPD he's trying to keep in line and using those tactics don't alter the behavior anyway so they are absolutely useless.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Tokyo_Taco guy that should of been banned ages ago from this place for being a huge troll and general douchebag.

If you are referring to me, then thanks!:flowers:
Apologies if you weren't.

So go on believing its fake and if you ever run into one let us all know how that works out for you ok?

What if I believe that it is fake but I also believe that I have the temperment and the skills to next a girl at the first sign of trouble, and not only that, but I also do so much work on my self esteem and my personal boundries that it doesn't even matter if its fake or not? Would I be ok then?

As again we only bring up the BPD diagnosis when there is a strong cluster of symptoms present and the topic creator seems to be thoroughly lost in the delusion which reminds we former victims of ourselves during our own experience and once all these things add up we then bust out the BPD label.

Ok, I'm a little slow, but let me see if I got this right:

Guy meets a girl, and she has this "BPD". And because she is so wacked out, he becomes "lost in the delusion." And while he is "lost in the delusion" he somehow manages to come on the internet, and report subjective behavior while being "lost in the delusion".
And by reading his delusionally enhanced reporting of subjective events, you are able to correctly diagnose his girlfriends problem?

Or, in order to summarize, it goes like this

Girl--->Boy--->Delusion Boy----->Internet----->Kontroller X---->Accurate diagnosis of psychological condition.

So on the one hand, you have a clinical creature that is so scientifically observable, she can be diagnosed through many layers of subjectively reported behavior.

BUT, on the other hand, she is a conniving, mirroring actress with jedi like hypnosis and manipulation skills.

Hmmm

The old way of dealing with things such as beating a woman up or hitting a woman would not erase BPD behavior.

Is that how ALL people dealt with problems in the olden times?

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

I'd think that by fighting monsters, you might become a pretty good monster fighter. But I guess that depends on your model of the world to begin with.

And I'm not sure what you mean by gazing into the abyss. I'd think if you gazed into an abys for a while, you might just get sleepy, but that's just me.