This is how women get the frame

[zekko]

Apparently this dude that works with my LTR has been hitting on her. I happen to know he hits on pretty much all the girls there so I'm not really surprised. But he actually said to her "Come on, let's fvck". I don't think he's actually any threat to me, but since he happens to be an acquaintence of mine I take this as a show of disrespect. I haven't decided exactly what to do with him but I have a few ideas.

I do have to admire his direct approach, and the fact that he's been spreading it around. That's pretty much exactly what they teach you here, isn't it? In fact, to read what they say here that should make him pretty much irresistable, shouldn't it? He's pretty much a dunderhead however.

Anyway, here's my point. Look at what this guy does, this is held up here as being pretty much the ideal as stated on this forum (going around trying to fvck everyone). Now if every guy was doing this, as advocated on this forum, each girl would be being propositioned like this a practically infinite amount of times. If only 10 guys were doing it, they would still be getting hit on a LOT.

So what you have is a situation where the girls are constantly getting hit on. Girls will hit on guys too, but except for rare occasions they are nowhere near this direct. For me to "even" the situation I would have to ask some girl to fvck, which I am not going to do, since I am loyal to my partner.

Now I keep the frame in my LTR and that will not change. I can see where women end up getting put up on pedestals because of this stuff though. See, they are getting propositioned and pursued, and are therefore desireable by social proof. The guy just doesn't have this unless he pursues himself (generally). So it's the age old story of the guy being the hunter and the woman is the prize.

That's where the girls get this entitlement attitude from. See, on this forum they always say it's because of the AFCs. But now that I think about it, it's because of the DJs. Because the DJs are the ones hitting on them so directly.

 

[jophil28]

What are you gonna do about "the dunderhead" ?
Perhaps a quiet chat at the bar during which you respectfully remind him that he has stepped over the line.

I understand your point about how and why women put themselves up on pedestals.
If I were hit on by 10 horny women every day. I guess that I would also come to see myself as a god .

 

[Trader]

Apparently this dude that works with my LTR has been hitting on her. I happen to know he hits on pretty much all the girls there so I'm not really surprised. But he actually said to her "Come on, let's fvck". I don't think he's actually any threat to me, but since he happens to be an acquaintence of mine I take this as a show of disrespect. I haven't decided exactly what to do with him but I have a few ideas.

I do have to admire his direct approach, and the fact that he's been spreading it around. That's pretty much exactly what they teach you here, isn't it? In fact, to read what they say here that should make him pretty much irresistable, shouldn't it? He's pretty much a dunderhead however.

First off, he is disrespecting you and you need to take him down. The question is: 'How best to do this?'

Let's mark off 2 different situations.

If you were with your girl, and he said that *in front of your face*, then the right thing to do is to confront him right then and there, put him in his place.

But since he is doing this while you are not physically present, then this requires a different method.

If you go out of your way to personally find him to tell him off, he will definitely tell your girl this, and it will make you look very very weak.

You are better off letting him dig his own grave, let your girl keep rejecting him.

Anyway, here's my point. Look at what this guy does, this is held up here as being pretty much the ideal as stated on this forum (going around trying to fvck everyone).

Hold on. People were advocating that only in situations like clubs. It's quite obvious that in normal social situations, you don't make the move right away. You first demonstrate high value, then take some time, be patient and THEN make your move, often indirectly - that way she doesn't get the feeling you are hitting on her, instead it feels natural.

Now I keep the frame in my LTR and that will not change. I can see where women end up getting put up on pedestals because of this stuff though. See, they are getting propositioned and pursued, and are therefore desireable by social proof. The guy just doesn't have this unless he pursues himself (generally). So it's the age old story of the guy being the hunter and the woman is the prize.

That's where the girls get this entitlement attitude from. See, on this forum they always say it's because of the AFCs. But now that I think about it, it's because of the DJs. Because the DJs are the ones hitting on them so directly.

That's what makes beautiful girls very interesting, you have to be able to approach them without giving off the vibe of *hitting on them* otherwise you get lumped in with all the other losers who put her on the pedastal.

 

[Tazman]

I know plenty of guys who use direct game, it doesn't make them DJs though. He may be hitting on all the women, but is he actually f-cking them?
There's a huge difference.

Are you sure she didn't take his comments out of context? Meaning he could've said it in a joking manner, knowing she would never oblige him? Also remember that women love stirring sh-t up, so even if those words did come out of his mouth it doesn't mean he said it in a serious way.

 

[zekko]

What are you gonna do about "the dunderhead" ?
Perhaps a quiet chat at the bar during which you respectfully remind him that he has stepped over the line.

You're not far off, with a twist. That will require waiting for the right opportunity. I'll let you know after the fact.

I understand your point about how and why women put themselves up on pedestals.
If I were hit on by 10 horny women every day. I guess that I would also come to see myself as a god .

I appreciate your honesty about it. I'm sure I'd feel the same way.
This whole direct game thing is being pushed now by RSD, and several other sites; Being very blunt and direct, putting sex on the table, being sexual, showing your masculine intent, cavemanning, etc. It never occurred to me it could be harmful. This isn't just putting the girls up on the pedestal, in many ways it IS the pedestal: "You have pvssy, I want".

You are better off letting him dig his own grave, let your girl keep rejecting him.

If I didn't know the guy, I would agree with this. But since he is an acquaintence, I feel like I should address the disrespect.

I know plenty of guys who use direct game, it doesn't make them DJs though. He may be hitting on all the women, but is he actually f-cking them?

Well, I'm not saying he is a DJ necessarily, but he isn't afraid to approach. And I'm not just talking about this situation. He is approaching constantly. Isn't that a hallmark of what a DJ should be?

As for his percentages, maybe they aren't that good, I don't know. But you know as well as I do, it's a numbers game.

Are you sure she didn't take his comments out of context? Meaning he could've said it in a joking manner, knowing she would never oblige him?

It's not just a comment, there's a whole conversation, which I'm not going to get into. He might very well be amusing himself, but to me it's irrelevant. As I said, I know the guy, and if she had said yes there's no question he would have gone for it.

 

[guru1000]

If your gf continues to communicate with him subsequently, this should give you some valuable insight as to her character.

If their rapport continues (assuming you have not intervened), it may be time for you to eject based on her defective character. Her appropriate response moving forward would be to give him the cold shoulder and not entertain a thought or word towards him. It would then be your duty to direct your "overt" boundary to him.

Keep this in mind:

Question the rapport your gf has developed to make him comfortable "enough" to make such a statement.

Let this serve as an eye opener.

 

[omkara]

I think this situation is a necessary consequence of women being "sexually liberated." It doesn't really matter what individual PUA's or AFC's do. Now that sex is available without consequences, due to changes in social mores, and birth control, there is always going to be some sleaze hitting on a woman if she's attractive. A certain percentage of guys, like myself, will show more restraint and will only hit on select girls that they really like, and show respect to other people's relationships. However it doesn't matter because the other 50% or so will hit on the girl once they establish rapport with her--through work or through social circle. (This is different than the much lower percentage who will actually do cold approaches.)

In regard to your comment about women putting themselves on a pedestal--I know they do this, but really why is it such a compliment that guys desire to use them sexually? It doesn't mean that they are a good person, or that they have accomplished anything significant. I find that it is useful to separate out the two. The vagina is useful, and therefore has value. But that doesn't make her a good person. That's all in their head. To make a crude analogy, if someone is standing on the street corner handing out money, or it is socially known that they might give out money, then people are going to try to get it. But it shouldn't really flatter the person giving it out that "oh, so many people are interested in me."

From a traditional perspective, women give themselves away too easily now. One time a guru from India came and he was teaching some young western disciples, and one girl told him about some random sex encounter she had. His response was, "Why do you give yourself away so easily, without marriage?" It's always been known that a woman's ***** is her greatest bargaining chip. But now it's being devalued a lot, and people think they can get it for nothing, where you used to have to give up so much for it.

 

[zekko]

If their rapport continues (assuming you have not intervened), it may be time for you to eject based on her defective character. Her appropriate response moving forward would be to give him the cold shoulder and not entertain a thought or word towards him.

I agree with you. As of this time I feel fairly certain she has acted appropriately, and that she has no interest in this guy. However, I will be keeping an eye on the situation just to be sure.

Normally, I wouldn't even think about her even considering having sex with tis guy. And I still don't think so. But reading this forum has probably made it worse, because I'm always hearing about how women will always be attracted to the guy with no moral character. How the guy with the guts to be directly sexual with her will make her gina tingle and all that. And that they will give in to the emotion of the moment and all that.

Now when I think of this guy, that's not the picture I get in my head. The reality is often differnet than what you read. This guy is more of a lunkhead. But still, I've read probably thousands of posts saying that stuff by now, and it takes its toll enough for there to be the tiniest trickle of doubt.

What seperates the men from the afc's, is the ability to walk away at the drop of a hat and not pedestalize the pu$$y despite desiring it

Right, I agree. I think the distinction is that when you are talking about one particular women, you can defeat the pedestal by being willing to walk away. But overall in general, women get put on the pedestal because of the testosterone driven desires of the male.

 

[squirrels]

There have been times where I have shut a girl down just to shut her down, even though I wanted to f*ck her, because she's been playing 3 or 4 guys all night and I don't want her thinking she can have EVERYTHING.

If you have an attractive girlfriend, you should expect her to be hit on here and there. It's gonna happen...other dudes will test her to see just how into you she is.I know...I've done it.

If she's really "your" girl, she will shut those guys down on her own.

Don't mistake this for the woman being unobtainable, as it's been illustrated that enough time will get you into ANY woman's panties.

What YOU have to worry about, as the boyfriend, is not the casual suitors. Those guys aren't a "threat", as the OP said, and you can take it as a compliment to your "game" that you have the girl all the other guys want.

It's the ones who persist THROUGH the defense your woman puts up. The ones who can't respect the, "no I'm taken" attitude and keep pushing and pushing.

Those are the ones you have to step in and deal with. And then only at her request/indication. You'll know when.

But NEVER expect an attractive woman to stop getting looks and casual passes just because you put a ring on her finger or something. You gotta understand human nature.

 

[Nutz]

There have been times where I have shut a girl down just to shut her down, even though I wanted to f*ck her, because she's been playing 3 or 4 guys all night and I don't want her thinking she can have EVERYTHING.

If you have an attractive girlfriend, you should expect her to be hit on here and there. It's gonna happen...other dudes will test her to see just how into you she is.I know...I've done it.

If she's really "your" girl, she will shut those guys down on her own.

Don't mistake this for the woman being unobtainable, as it's been illustrated that enough time will get you into ANY woman's panties.

What YOU have to worry about, as the boyfriend, is not the casual suitors. Those guys aren't a "threat", as the OP said, and you can take it as a compliment to your "game" that you have the girl all the other guys want.

It's the ones who persist THROUGH the defense your woman puts up. The ones who can't respect the, "no I'm taken" attitude and keep pushing and pushing.

Those are the ones you have to step in and deal with. And then only at her request/indication. You'll know when.

But NEVER expect an attractive woman to stop getting looks and casual passes just because you put a ring on her finger or something. You gotta understand human nature.

The first part I emphasized above is something the OP's gf is failing to do, which is a huge red flag. Either she's contemplating banging the guy, or she's eating up the attention. Either way it's bad that she's allowing it to occur like that.

The second part I emphasized is similar, that the girls explain they're not interested, but the guys persist. Again, if they allow the guy to persist and relegate their previous resistant into token resistance then you've got a problem.

Bottom line, if you're game is tight and the woman you're seeing is worthy then you should never actually have to step in to do anything, she's put a stop to the guy on her own and will be firm about it. There won't be any room for the guys to game her because she won't give him the opportunity.

 

[jophil28]

But NEVER expect an attractive woman to stop getting looks and casual passes just because you put a ring on her finger or something. You gotta understand human nature.

Consider this - attractive women are conditioned ( and perhaps habituated) to being pursued, fawned over, worshipped and generally prized just because they are stunningly good looking..

Imagine how much of her self opinion is eventually attached to the constant flow of compliments that she has received since she was a small child. Imagine again how these compliments were amplified by an order of magnitude when she started to "develop" in her early teens.
Imagine, even further, how much power she realized she held ( and exerted) over men in her early twenties.

Do you think that women like this would readily surrender ALL that validation from other men just because she agreed to marry you,

AS Squirrels said - never exect her to stop getting admiring looks and approaches from other guys, and never expect her to completely abandon her part in playing that game.

 

[DanelMadr]

The "WANNA FVCK" works. "Let's FVCK" works even better.
It is like fast food of seduction.
It works on a special occasions with a special type of girls. I don't mean slvtty....it depends. And it depends on situation. You can't be running around office telling girls that. He is fvcking nut.

You have to give it some work before you say that....at least when you see her looking at you with bedroom eyes....you made the work just standing there.
I never tried it on a girl I've never seen before or at least haven't been flirting with for a while.
The most similar approach I did was me telling her "Oh no, you can't have me, I'm too tall for you." after I caught her looking at me. It was a joke. She gave me her card from her hotel with address and words "wanna fvck?...here is your answer room XXX". I never used it...she was like 16yo Indian girl with friends. I expect at least a conversation before I go to a hotel room with a strangers who could have been jail bait :-D. Actually it is legal to fvck 15yo where I come from but I never did go for younger than 20.


It is an old method, actually I know it from James Joyce's book From here to eternity...or something like that. One sergeant in that book was hitting on girls like this...and said he will marry the one who would say yes. After some hundred approaches he struck the gold.

Bottom line: With this method you gross out more girls than you fvck. Especially when you use it in "sober" environment and without prior IOIs from her.

I believe it is better not to say it at all....just take her hand and whisper in to her ear "Let's go" or just take her hand. She knows.
----------------
FRAME? PEDESTAL? maybe, man. But if she thinks he is a weirdo...than it is not vary flattering.
And she thinks he is a weirdo because she wouldn't tell you that....she would be fvcking him now.

What to do with him? Did he know that she is your girl? Frame, jealousy, pedestal aside.....he should be reminded it is not OK. You don't tell "fvck" to girls of your associates and live...you get punched where I come from. And it has nothing to do with anger or jealousy. It is a punishment for bad behavior.
By punching him you are doing him a personal favor....next time he will say that to a mob boss's wife or something like that and end up dead.

Someone fvcks my wife....fine....but I punch him if he knew it was my wife....not because I want to impress her or because I'm jealous...because he is shameless, arrogant and need to be punished.
People beat their children all the time for stupid nonsense but you don't beat someone for fvcking your wife?

 

[squirrels]

Someone fvcks my wife....fine....but I punch him if he knew it was my wife....not because I want to impress her or because I'm jealous...because he is shameless, arrogant and need to be punished.
People beat their children all the time for stupid nonsense but you don't beat someone for fvcking your wife?

That's a hard call to make.

If it was someone who I knew, who blatantly did it right in front of my face, I might slug him, and I'd expect him to take it like a man.

But in most cases, I'm not going AFTER him. She's MORE culpable than him, because she let it happen. And the best way to punish her is to cut her off...no more of ME in her life.

Now if he forces himself on her against her will...I'm callin' up a couple of hard, pipe-hittin' n*ggas with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch and getting medieval on his azz. :nervous: And THEN she'll report him to the cops.

 

[DanelMadr]

That's a hard call to make.

If it was someone who I knew, who blatantly did it right in front of my face, I might slug him, and I'd expect him to take it like a man.

Yep. Reminds me of The Last Boyscout with Bruce Willis..."Head or Stomach?"

But in most cases, I'm not going AFTER him. She's MORE culpable than him, because she let it happen. And the best way to punish her is to cut her off...no more of ME in her life.

Absolutely. No chasing after him through 5 states. And leaving her is absolute must....she does not love you after all. (That's where Boyscout screenwriter got it wrong, I guess.)

Now if he forces himself on her against her will...I'm callin' up a couple of hard, pipe-hittin' n*ggas with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch and getting medieval on his azz. :nervous: And THEN she'll report him to the cops.

Pulp Reality Cops? To pick the pieces and put them to evidence bag?:nono:

 

[zekko]

OP here. Well, in the cold light of a new day things look different. I'm pretty much over this. My LTR assures me she can handle this and doesn't want any drama at work from me confronting him, so I guess I'll let it slide for now, depending on how things go from here.

I had planned on confronting him in front of a couple of other plates he was attempting to spin. I thought it might cause him some embarassment and reveal to them what a dirtbag he is at the same time. But maybe I would have just been doing him a favor since girls like jerks lol.

Nutz, my girl DID shut the guy down. I didn't include that bit in my story because I figured it was obvious. If she hadn't, the post would have been about what a trashbag ho she was instead. And honestly, if she did want to cheat on me, I doubt it would be with this joker.

To make a crude analogy, if someone is standing on the street corner handing out money, or it is socially known that they might give out money, then people are going to try to get it. But it shouldn't really flatter the person giving it out that "oh, so many people are interested in me."

Yes, but what you're not mentioning is that in your analogy, women are the only ones who possess that money that you are handing out.

Someone fvcks my wife....fine....but I punch him if he knew it was my wife....

I understand that viewpoint, but if someone fvcks my wife then the responsibility is on her, and she is no longer worthy of my even being upset over it. She just gets dropped, period. The guy has just done me a favor by revealing her to be a slvt.

One final note to this story:
We went out to a Memorial Day party last night. Honestly, I wasn't in the best of moods because of this and I was even feeling a little down. And then we get to the party and I was getting a lot of IOIs and girls were laughing at my jokes and stuff (which always makes you feel good). This is why I think a lot of this pickup stuff about confidence is BS. I wasn't feeling confident at all, yet for some reason I was getting IOIs left and right. Of course I always try to fake it, in that I don't show anything's bothering me or whatever.

But still, if you listen to the pickup gurus, they will tell you that if you are not feeling confident then girls will smell it on you and be repulsed. This is just garbage from my experiences. Things seem so totally random for me. One day I'll go out and be getting IOIs left and right. The next day I'll go out and I can't even get a girl to look at me. It's very weird, like I said, it just seems totally random.

 

[Colossus]

But still, if you listen to the pickup gurus, they will tell you that if you are not feeling confident then girls will smell it on you and be repulsed. This is just garbage from my experiences. Things seem so totally random for me. One day I'll go out and be getting IOIs left and right. The next day I'll go out and I can't even get a girl to look at me. It's very weird, like I said, it just seems totally random.

It does seem to be random. I think most of the time, though, inward confidence will project itself in your body language, and this is what women pick up on. However, I've also had times where I've gone out with no apparent confidence and out of the blue I was getting great IOI's. So nothing is totally predictable when it comes to social stuff.

 

[zekko]

It does seem to be random. I think most of the time, though, inward confidence will project itself in your body language, and this is what women pick up on.

Maybe you could say I have some base confidence, and on top of that was a layer of no confidence, and on top of that was a layer of fake confidence
So maybe they were responding to my base confidence but I doubt it.
I've gone out countless times feeling great and got no interest at all. Like you say, you can't really predict it. I mean maybe it works that way for some guys but that hasn't been my experience.

One thing I was thinking about was I was probably dressed just a hair better than the rest of the people there. And I mean just barely. It was a casual thing and I was dressed casual but my attire looked good (I think). Maybe that had something to do with it?

 

[jophil28]

Zeek, perhaps we need to look for the upside of these little dramas and regard them as a way to measure the strengths and weaknesses of our SOs and indeed ourselves. Maybe it is wise to see these events as a way to assess our vulnerabilities and work on strengthening those areas in which our responses are less that excellent.
The manner in which your G/f reacted to that guy's clumsy advances certainly tells you a lot about her and her loyalty and committment to your LTR. The way that she reported it to you tells you even more. Some women would have exploited his advances in a cheap attempt to trigger jealousy in you.

Military wisdom recognises that an extenal threat or attack will always reveal your defensive weaknesses and your vulnerabilities.

Just my .02

 

[squirrels]

There's a difference between a confident person feeling down and an un-confident person.

Plus, if you look good, sometimes women will throw you IOIs to see how you react and not get turned off unless you appear to not know what to do with them.

 

[mrRuckus]

Imagine how much of her self opinion is eventually attached to the constant flow of compliments that she has received since she was a small child. Imagine again how these compliments were amplified by an order of magnitude when she started to "develop" in her early teens.
Imagine, even further, how much power she realized she held ( and exerted) over men in her early twenties.

Then her beauty engine sputters out of fuel in her 30s, and she comes crashing down. How sad that their lifelong relationship with the world comes to a screeching halt like that.