This is a tricky situation... fast response appreciated.

[So pimp its scary]

TesuqueRed -

Thanks. I am only 8 months into the whole DJ philosophy... which was/is pretty hard right now, having no car, crib, or cash to back it up.

You were right, in that I am still learning how to not get played. Which is still a great feeling, spotting all these little games... I've met more women this year then in the past 4 years of trying (God! Some of that shyte was sad...) I am also trying to turn the tables and being more of the player...

Actually... that dude got rejected 3x by both women... The both of them actually kept PUSHING this guy away, and he kept coming back... I had to stop myself from laughing.

The only thing that I'm curious about is : what do you mean by "you know what you felt and didn't try to explain it away in AFC fashion. "?

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

S.P.I.S -

You played your cards right that night. It happens to the best of em. Women are becoming more brash and more heartless everyday. I'm sure she knew it was a date when you initially set up the whole thing. But, she decided otherwise and deserves to be nexted. Just learn to take those uppercuts, and, it'll give you a stronger jaw.

Its a hard call whether or not a girl's IL is low if she invites friends as security blankets on a first date. First dates are always a bit akward and having some support helps women out (explains why they go to the restroom in heards).

But, if she's bringing friends on a 2nd date, then, I'd go on the date - but, I wouldn't be expecting much. If the IL on the second date is definately low - I wouldn't exactly next, I'd put her on the bottom end of my cell phone redial list until she called me for a one to one date where its her treat.

Another thing - I don't know if the date to meet at a bar/club was your idea or her's, but, this is bad grounds for a first date. They're loud, smokey, hormone enraged places where other guys might try to draw your date's IL. Basic first date dinner/movie or dinner/pool is a better first date choice. Good time to get to know her, get in some KINO, and no distractions from other horney DJs or AFCs.

 

[TesuqueRed]

Knew what you felt-- being ignored / treated badly etc. Basically, "this doesn't feel good" or "I'm not enjoying myself" and variations thereon. Your body or gut or intuition or whatever you want to call it is like a sounding board or resonance board (I play guitar, so I look at it this way) -- that "responds" or resonates through feelings, emotions, gut-responses and the like. You learn to go with your gut. I'll bet you can look back at your mistakes and probably ferret out where you actually knew what the situation was (gut response told you) and you ignored it and walked yourself into a mistake.

AFCs often get the same information/impression from thier intuition or gut-response. They interpret it wrong. Or they know what it means and don't want to accept it (especially true in one-itis situations)---so, they make excuses, ignore it, second guess everything in HER favor, put the blame on themselves, etc.

Example?

She flakes on a date. She has an excuse--doesn't even have to be plausible.

AFC thinks "well, I'm pissed, and it sounds kinda lame, but--Ok, I'll put her on probabation, and I won't accept any more behavior like this! No more strikes!"

He's lying to himself, of course. He's actually thinking that she didn't tell him to blow off, that he still has a chance, that with a little more effort and a little more romance (--what we would recognize as supplication) he would get her interested in him.

What happens? She flakes later, or leads him on into get togethers (just friends stuff) and ignores him. He continues to have hope, continues to talk to her, look for her, go out whenever he can with her, etc. Words are one thing (especially what we tell ourselves) and behavior is another. Follow the behavior--but pay attention to how people (and us) lie to ourselves.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

Originally posted by TesuqueRed

AFCs often get the same information/impression from thier intuition or gut-response. They interpret it wrong. Or they know what it means and don't want to accept it (especially true in one-itis situations)---so, they make excuses, ignore it, second guess everything in HER favor, put the blame on themselves, etc.

Example?

She flakes on a date. She has an excuse--doesn't even have to be plausible.

AFC thinks "well, I'm pissed, and it sounds kinda lame, but--Ok, I'll put her on probabation, and I won't accept any more behavior like this! No more strikes!"

He's lying to himself, of course. He's actually thinking that she didn't tell him to blow off, that he still has a chance, that with a little more effort and a little more romance (--what we would recognize as supplication) he would get her interested in him.

What happens? She flakes later, or leads him on into get togethers (just friends stuff) and ignores him. He continues to have hope, continues to talk to her, look for her, go out whenever he can with her, etc. Words are one thing (especially what we tell ourselves) and behavior is another. Follow the behavior--but pay attention to how people (and us) lie to ourselves.

TesuqueRed - I have the utmost respect for your posts, so this reply comes without malice.


We've all been in a situation where a woman cancels a date and can actually have a plausible excuse. It happens to the best of us regardless of how high her IL is. Some things (death in the family, car troubles, etc) are inevitable.

Does that mean we automatically place on a girl the next list as soon as she shows the slightest bit of disrespect? Granted So Pimp's situation called for a nexting, but, I think the defintion of nexting a woman should be clearer.

From your post, nexting is defined by cutting off any and all contact with a woman who showed you disrespect regarding a date. That's cool. But, what are you left with? Your pride? Your head in the air? The goodness knowing that you 'one-upped' this girl? Yet, you've just killed an option. Good or not so good, it was still an option.

Rather than completely nexting a woman, what is the harm of dropping her down on the list? I'm sure many guys can attest to dropping a girl down on the list and having the woman actually call him back after a month or two. I'm not saying to put all the eggs in one basket. But if you next her and not return any calls, then, you're still left alone.

I think we can both agree that a DJ should have many options and that the AFC, by nature, only has one - and holds that one option on a pedestal. But, I don't think completely nexting is the answer. There's a middle ground.

 

[TesuqueRed]

I'm not sure if there is a slight misread here or not. It's too close for me to call, so I'll respond with what I think your post addresses (kudos HIPNOTQ, I really appreciate the reasoned, thougt-out approach and the absense of flaming...)

The post you quoted didn't specifically address next'ing, although I can see it suggested in there or could be reasonably read into it. But I was clearing up a stmt I made earlier about Scary knowing that he was being ignored and not denying it or making excuses for her behavior that you often see from guys--and that we've all engaged in, too.

That's an important point that we see here---guys denying what they really know, acknowledging what they really know and taking action. That's what those various scenarios I mentioned were about.

In another post somewhere recently I suggested we think of next'ing in terms of a "hard" next and a "soft" next, which more closely corresponds to your idea of dropping her down the list (I phrased it as putting her at the end of the line, or words to that extent--same intent, I believe..)

This particular example I mentioned in the post you quoted is just a general situation. Yes, there are legit excuses and all that. These are a low percentage, or lower percentage than the flakes and tests that we encounter, IMO--I haven't taken a poll or anything.

The columnists here (DD, Doc, etc.) rightly note that with high IL, if there's a legit excuse they make it clear what it is and go to some length in trying to make the date work or counter-offering.

Often you don't see that. Instead, you see outright 'excuse abuse' or flakiness or game playing. Where is her IL in these cases--???

Not high enough.

Hard next, soft next--each guy makes his own call based on where he's at and how many other options he has. In Scary's case, I think a very firm soft next is required (is that splitting it too fine??) or just outright hard next this one. She has little interest in him, from what I can tell, and uses him for going out and then walls herself off by high-jacking the date and inviting "teddy bears" along.

 

[So pimp its scary]

In this situation... I am definately going to bother. If she does call back, I will tell her the truth... then she won't want to be with me anyway...

"You know, I really just wanted to f*ck you, but that's not going to happen... and I don't feel like wasting anymore time, so... if your cool with that, then we can go out, otherwise, I'll talk to you later."

And, I'm going to be saying this KNOWING that she likely won't accept... she was on the verge of being nexted for a long time as it is, but that's a long story.

-HPNOTIQ- :
I've taken more then a few of those, some of them really sting more then others, but this is one time where even my friends told me to not bother with this girl... so, I was more prepared for this one.

But, now that I've exhausted all options, I must resort to going back in the field. This is going to be a lot harder, because my usual wingman has moved to another part of the country (canada)... he, himself is pretty afc, but he was always there to push me to go up to women, he was also learning slowly... but still sometimes fell back into the "grind them from behind" routine...lol (sorry guy).

I had also talked to someone, who had a similar experience... he told me, to take 2 things out of the experience.

1. Don't go on bar dates because the woman is going with you, but will leave with someone else...
2. Don't go on dates with a third wheel.

 

[iqqi]

"You know, I really just wanted to f*ck you, but that's not going to happen... and I don't feel like wasting anymore time, so... if your cool with that, then we can go out, otherwise, I'll talk to you later."

hahahahha, do it, do it do it! this will knock her off her pedestal that she was using you to put her on. but say it with a straight face voice-no anger!