Things are falling down like a house of cards.

[DJDamage]

If anyone has kept to date on things, I have been going on a dating marathon for the past week or so with different girls. So far things have not been great and so was the date tonight.

A little background: this was the second date I had with the chick. I first dated her 4 weeks ago but I did not continue to see her the following weeks because I was taking an out of town vacation so this was our second date back. At the first date we went to a sports bar, had a few drinks, I kino'ed her things were going good and it seemed that she was interested in me (I would say her interest level was about 70). I did not kiss close in the end of the date and decided to leave that to our second date. I relaised back then that after 4 weeks her interest level might fall down again due to the time that passed and it seems that I was right.

I decide to go Bowling with her tonight because she was a bit tired from work and told me she wanted to leave early and not stay so long (that was a red flag - I tried to to go for glow in the dark bowling where they have a nice lounge and drinks served but it was too far for her so I opted for just regular bowling with no drinks).

When we started playing bowling I started to kino her, every time she either laughed or I told a joke. I touched her on the arm and shoulders, the upper back and she seemed receptive to it. However she was a really bad bowler and I jokingly stepped behind her placed my two hands on her shoulders and said "here let me coach you how to throw a strike" in which she turned to me and smiled and said "you are not that good to teach me". I took that as a positive sign (but it wasn't) and 2 turns later I again approached her as she was about to bowl and placed both hands on her shoulders and jokingly said" here let me give you a tip" she then turned to me and said with a stern voice and an angry look " I don't want you to coach me! I mean it!".

I got flustered after that and I backed the fvck down. I stopped kinoing her after that, except a few high fives for bowling good. It seems that I fvcked up and I couldn't recover anymore. After it was over, I walked her outside and tried to kiss-close but she gave me her cheek instead and didn't kiss me back (her interest level went down to about 50 I would say). It was a dissapointing night and to be honest after that I don't really have the urge to call her for another date. But I am still debating if I should.

What do you guys think? Should I next her?? and what should I have done differently??

 

[Phyzzle]

My personal rule is not to touch a woman on a given day until AFTER she has touched me 1st. The man escalates, but that 1st touch on the back: was that her or you?

You probably tried to kino her a bit too much before she was ready.

Personal experience: when she flinches away from your touch, you're already out. I'd say there's no point in calling again.

 

[SoldMySoul]

Sounds like she was okay early on, but she may have become pissed when you kept trying to "coach" her. I am guessing that she became pissed about it and let you know in not so many words. If it were me, I do not think I would call her again for another date. However, if she makes some contact with you and seems okay then I may reconsider. I think you may have bruised her fragile ego and that is why she became bytchy.

 

[DJDamage]

My personal rule is not to touch a woman on a given day until AFTER she has touched me 1st. The man escalates, but that 1st touch on the back: was that her or you?

I was the only one doing any touching on that date, even intiating the small kino's via high fives.

So are you saying not to touch the woman at all until she touches you?? I don't know if I agree with that because the point of kino is for her to see you in a sexual way. From my experience if I don't intiate kino they might not touch me at all and I end up in the friendzone. But then again IF SHE REALLY LIKES YOU from the get go she will probably intiate kino but what happens if you got a woman who you are not sure of her interest levels???

You probably tried to kino her a bit too much before she was ready.

You are right. Too much kino early on might have done me.

. If it were me, I do not think I would call her again for another date. However, if she makes some contact with you and seems okay then I may reconsider.

My thoughts exectly. After this date and its low turn out, I lost interest because I don't see a point seeing a girl who doesn't kino me back or wants me to kiss her (dating someone who doesn't like you doesn't make sense to me). However if she does contact me I might reconsider because maybe I did things right after all and I am just being paranoid.

I think you may have bruised her fragile ego and that is why she became bytchy.

nah I don't think so. She told me prior to this that she is the worst player in bowling. I do recall using similar line in the past "here let me show you how to shoot pool" with a woman with high interest while kinoing her and things were fine then.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Your kino and jokes came off as patronizing and lent itself to making her feel self conscious about her bowling ability. What's worse is that you didn't deal with it when she told you that she didn't like it. You just drifted away and acted as if it didn't happen then expected to kiss close at the end. She wasn't digging that. Even though she told you that she sucked at the game, you shouldn't have taken advantage of it (she's not a guy). We all know that a woman is capable of saying anything, what we need to be concerned with is her actions.

 

[DJDamage]

Your kino and jokes came off as patronizing and lent itself to making her feel self conscious about her bowling ability. What's worse is that you didn't deal with it when she told you that she didn't like it.

How should I have dealt with it??

 

[NewMan]

However she was a really bad bowler and I jokingly stepped behind her placed my two hands on her shoulders and said "here let me coach you how to throw a strike" in which she turned to me and smiled and said "you are not that good to teach me". I took that as a positive sign

curious, why would you take that as a positive?


TO answer your question, I wouldn't bother asking her out again.

 

[DJDamage]

curious, why would you take that as a positive?

She was joking with me all the time and I thought she was a good sport about it. She did smile when she said that so I assumed it was a positive sign. When I kino'ed her before she did not move away from me or did anything to indicate that I was doing anything wrong.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

How should I have dealt with it??

It sounds as if your kino wasn't authentic, as if every time she did something you had to touch her in a consoling type of way. The first time it's consoling, subsequent times it's condescending. Also in showing her your value upon her in focusing on your bowling ability, you were also pointing out her lack of bowling ability. She may have felt as if you were competing with her.

I know competition wasn't your objective but it's not about what you were doing logically, it's about what she was feeling at the time. The best thing you can do with any woman under any circumstance is to make her feel comfortable with you. Sure, you could have offered (once) to give her pointers if she would like. Give her the option of accepting under her circumstances instead of forcing your help on her.

If she didn't accept your offer, fine. Steer your interest away from her personal bowling ability to her having a good time with you. Make her feel comfortable with you by not making things as serious as a competition. Remember, you aren't out with just your buds, you're out with a woman who's at the time feeling self conscious.

 

[Vulpine]

Yeah, just walking up and putting your hands on her shoulders is threatening, and too much contact. A tap, a graze, or a couple nudges would've been better.

Close your eyes and imagine how you would feel if you are standing there and someone came up and but both hands on your shoulders.

You would either be creeped out, or want to turn around and punch whoever it was. Hands on the shoulders is a power-move: way over the top as far as attraction kino play goes.

 

[squirrels]

Mistake 1: You took her out when she was tired, associating yourself with that sensation.

Mistake 2: You tried too hard to sell her on your "advice". You may as well force her to let you buy her a drink. Same difference. BTW, CAN you bowl for sh!t in the first place? If you bowl all open frames your first game and then offer to teach someone how to throw a strike, I'd be a bit skeptical too.

Mistake 3: You took her reaction too seriously...you essentially closed up and backed away, like a puppy who got the business-end of a rolled-up newspaper. This is the classic problem that I've been burned by too many times lately...CARING TOO MUCH WHAT SHE THINKS OF YOU. Deal-breaker.

You're trying too hard.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, just walking up and putting your hands on her shoulders is threatening, and too much contact. A tap, a graze, or a couple nudges would've been better....

I'll definitely attest to nudging, it's playful and with an added wink it tends to evoke the feeling of interpersonal closeness and acceptance with women.

 

[WestCoaster]

Agree with the nudging, good one Francisco.

As for the other points, on this board why is it always the man's fault if a date goes sour? Look, most women are nutcases and don't know up from down or why they're feeling a certain way. I know some women that would love that kind of Kino and coaching. To me she was high maintenance, I'm really not reading any major problems there.

The coaching? I liked it, if the beyotch didn't like it, she's a beyotch.

I remember I was on an early bowling date with a gal I really liked. She said, "You're kicking my butt!" I playfully kicked her in the (nice) booty the next time out, she got REALLY embarrassed and rolled a gutter ball. She didn't know what to say, I replied, "Hey, you said I was kicking your butt."

This was in my AFC days and I felt odd about it afterwards but later thought, hey, wait a second, that wasn't bad! I was having fun, good grief.

I just don't get it on this board: Usually a guy explains a bad date, totally blames himself, and the so-called DJ's here say, "Yeah, it was your fault, you shouldn't have done this or that, too much Kino, no coaching, be a stiff statue or something."

C'mon! Take it from a guy who hasn't done enough kino, he's fine. She's an uptight broad. I thought he did well; I know A LOT of women who would've liked his actions.

 

[squirrels]

I'll definitely attest to nudging, it's playful and with an added wink it tends to evoke the feeling of interpersonal closeness and acceptance with women.

You just reminded me of something hilarious I did...I was walking back to this girl's car with her and she gave me a playful "bump", so rather than just respond in kind, I gave her a full-on shoulder-check and sent her stumbling. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

Yes, we still ended up hooking up. In fact, I'm seeing her tonight. She's starting to give me the commitment speech, though. :nervous: She's got some self-esteem issues that need sorting out.

 

[Vulpine]

See, the walk up and touch/offer help approach isn't my style, I make chicks come to me.

HB: "I suck at bowling."
V: "That's true."
HB: "HEEEY!"
V: "I could show you some stuff, but..."
HB: "Show me!"
V: "... but you'll have to pay for the lessons! This isn't a free bowling workshop I got going here, you know!"
HB: *slack jaw disgusted look*
V: "Hahah! I'm just playin'." *nudge nudge* "Here, check this out..." *hand on back, usher up to lane*

 

[wayword]

See, the walk up and touch/offer help approach isn't my style, I make chicks come to me.

Exactly. A needle pulls thread, not pushes it. AFCs push, DJs pull.

Next?

 

[DJDamage]

It sounds as if your kino wasn't authentic, as if every time she did something you had to touch her in a consoling type of way. The first time it's consoling, subsequent times it's condescending.

Yeah you are right I over did it. I should have used it less.

The best thing you can do with any woman under any circumstance is to make her feel comfortable with you. Sure, you could have offered (once) to give her pointers if she would like. Give her the option of accepting under her circumstances instead of forcing your help on her

There is a fine line between feeling comfortable and too comfortable. I felt at the begining of it that if I don't escalate things she might LJBF me, which could have been her intention but after all what transpire I bet she wouldn't want to be my friend either in which case I rather take a swift rejection ( I don't want to ever see you again) then LJBF rejection.

You're out with a woman who's at the time feeling self conscious.

If its a second date, I think its common knowledge that a guy will be touching her more and get into her personal space more. All in all I think I was dealing with a chick who didn't have high interest in me and would have probably gave me the LJBF line if I didn't get into her personal space a bit. Its not like I spanked her ass or grabbed her t1ts (even though spanking the ass in a game of pool has helped me score points in the past). I also suspect that since there was no alcohol as last time she wasn't as loosen up.

Close your eyes and imagine how you would feel if you are standing there and someone came up and but both hands on your shoulders.

First off I am not just someone, I am her date and its our second meeting. In her mind she had to accept me somewhat for wanting to go out with me a second time.

Second if I LIKED the person then I wouldn't mind a little squeeze on the shoulders. Sounds like she was a bit uptight and I over did it on the kino as well which made things worse.

Mistake 1: You took her out when she was tired, associating yourself with that sensation.

There is nothing I could have done, we agreed to meet on that day but only later on did she say she was tired but still wanted to go out. You can't really cancel on someone if they still want to go out with you just because they are tired.

Mistake 2:BTW, CAN you bowl for sh!t in the first place? If you bowl all open frames your first game and then offer to teach someone how to throw a strike, I'd be a bit skeptical too.

I am not a great bowler but in the last game I did kick her butt 150 to 78, just because she was all bend out of shape and dissing me. The last frame of bowling was as if we played for ourselves.

Mistake 3: You took her reaction too seriously...you essentially closed up and backed away, like a puppy who got the business-end of a rolled-up newspaper. This is the classic problem that I've been burned by too many times lately...CARING TOO MUCH WHAT SHE THINKS OF YOU. Deal-breaker.

You're trying too hard.

I disagree with everything except the last two parts: Caring too much and Trying too hard. When a woman snaps at you during the date it means the date is OVER. (Remember this was only our second date so it was no lover quarel). No C&F in the world will change her attitude towards you and why should you try so hard to be accomadating and try to ignore what had happened when you basically got the business end of a rolled up newspaper.

As for the other points, on this board why is it always the man's fault if a date goes sour?.

It seems like it this way. Latley when I go on dates it feels as if the woman doesn't try hard to connect with me and instead is there to qualify me. Dating with women in their late 20's is not as fun as it was back in the day where I was dating women in their early 20's.

C'mon! Take it from a guy who hasn't done enough kino, he's fine. She's an uptight broad. I thought he did well; I know A LOT of women who would've liked his actions.

Its funny how fickle and strange women are sometimes. One day they go on a date and being uptight about kino the next day you will see them in a club drinking heavily and grinding their ass against some random's guy's d1ck. This broad just didn't like me as much in the end of it and I doubt that there was much I could have done.

Next?

she is NEXT!! alright. I got another date tonight with another chick, I hope this one goes well. I will keep you up to date.

 

[DJDamage]

Had another date last night and did text book material and success!

Yesterday I had another date with a chick who clearly had a high interest in me from the begining. I am going to break it down to you of what happened with her vs what happened with the other girls.

1) This girl drove 35 mins out of her way to see me at my selective location. She did not mention to me how far she had to drive or had anything bad to say against the location. The other girls b1tched about the distance and location. I suppose this helps supports the anti-dump system that if they agree with you then you will have less of a problems down the future. The location was a bar with games in it and a live band.

2) Conversation - this girl was talkative and actually carried the conversation a few times. The other girls were not very talkative and I was forced to try and carry most of the conversation.

3) Humor - I can tell this one had a high interest in me because not only was she laughing at my jokes, she was laughing at my bad jokes as well and coming up with her own. The other girls- did not laugh as much and if I made a bad joke they would roll their eyes.

4) Kino - This time around I kinoed a bit less then previous one but it didn't really matter because this one KINO'ed me back! The other girls were not very responsive and never kinoed me back other then an end of the date hug. This one was touching my hand and my lower back.

5) Kiss close - The other girls gave me mix singles and mix results and therefore I did not feel the urge to kiss them on the first date. But this girl gave me all the right signs and I actually I somewhat knew that if I try to kiss her in the end of the night, she will kiss me back and that is exectly what she did.

All in all it was an interesting to see the different behaviour of girls with low interest's as opposed to high interest's. My advice to you that if a girl makes it difficult for you early on to hook up with her and doesn't make you feel good or like the Man on the date, you should forget about them. Think about it if they make it difficult for you early on, imagine what they will do later on.

I have another date with a 34 year old woman this sunday. I never dated a woman this much older then me(I'm 27) and it will be interesting how this one will go. My insticts tells me that if she is looking for a marriage right away then this date will be doomed but if she is looking for just fun and a "good time" then it will turn out good.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Sounds like you either figured out the type of woman you mesh with well or you are doing a better job qualifying them. Either way live and learn, keep up the good work!

 

[Desdinova]

Don't worry about it too much. Have you ever eaten sunflower seeds, and you accidently get that one b1tch that's rotten inside? This is the same thing.

I don't see what you were doing wrong here, but it sounds like that chick was just rotten (or was on her rag).

then turned to me and said with a stern voice and an angry look " I don't want you to coach me! I mean it!".

5hit like this can really catch you off guard, so I can't really blame you for your reaction. The best thing you could have done is ended the date right there and say "Your attitude sucks and it's been lousy all night. After I take you home, we go our seperate ways."

But on the flipside, it sounds like you came back on a fantastic date with a cool chick! Definately write the b1tchy bowling chick off.