They Don’t Submit to My Frame

[anonymous12345]

In my current social sphere there’s women (22-29) that are single and I /think/ they find me attractive. I’ve read my Tomassi, I got decent social skills, I got a look/competence, etc. I express interest (but I don’t double text, for instance), and I vibe with them in conversations to the degree that they reciprocate with personal questions, I got IOIs.

But still, they simply don’t submit to my frame; they milk the environment for attention, but somehow seem surprised when I don’t simp like the guys they’ve managed to bait.

I can think of various explanations to this:

1. “They’re simply not that into you, bro/you’re not high value/they’re all low-interest girls.”
2. These are very “modern women”. They’re all musicians/producers/etc., so these are not the usual school girls. The things is, it’s as if they expect men to submit (and some here do), but we all know the girls actually don’t want that. It’s the usual power struggle of submitting, but it’s a stall mate here.
3. No one wants to get hurt in love. They don’t want to go on a limb.
4. I need to figure out some way to seduce these girls, some way to escalate. The major problem I see here is that in a tight social circle (a school of 200 students) it’s hard to escalate without the risk of some kind of social **** storm.

I would say 4 is the only thing I can do much about. Suggestions welcome.

 

[kavi]

Could you clarify what you mean by "dont submit to my frame" and also how they expect men to submit that you dont? I think I know what you mean sort of but just wanted that clarified.

 

[HaleyBaron]

If a woman wants you, she'll get explicit eventually. If they're using you for attention, then you simply dont give it to them. Girls are very easy to read once you know the signals. If they're touching you a lot and cant stop looking at you, then it's grounds for something they want. Always happens at least for me.

 

[Black Widow Void]

I believe a lot of members take what is written here or in player books as the absolute gospel.

While I do think there is are a lot of good tips and information here and there, it’s not as cut and dry.

As far as women submitting to your frame, it’s usually not instant. Achieving this can be a gradual process at times. Think of it like this; if you were instantly attracted to someone… that attraction can go away overnight. However if you have a gradual attraction that continues to grow, you’ll likely find yourself more invested. The same theory also applies to women.

 

[HaleyBaron]

I believe a lot of members take what is written here or in player books as the absolute gospel.

While I do think there is are a lot of good tips and information here and there, it’s not as cut and dry.

As far as women submitting to your frame, it’s usually not instant. Achieving this can be a gradual process at times. Think of it like this; if you were instantly attracted to someone… that attraction can go away overnight. However if you have a gradual attraction that continues to grow, you’ll likely find yourself more invested. The same theory also applies to women.

This is a sound point. Patience. These days, women are far too ghosty and fickly and also awkward. They have no idea what they want, and at the same time they do. And they can easily run away from you and make you look bad. They always have a get out of jail free card. And it is this advantage which makes them terrible at showing attraction. If she isn't doing anything overt, she hasn't confirmed anything. Only when she's talking with interest and touching, that is when she is ready to get into your pants.

 

[firstbornunicorn]

You're 37, maybe too close to creep-zone?

 

[derby1]

But still, they simply don’t submit to my frame; they milk the environment for attention, but somehow seem surprised when I don’t simp like the guys they’ve managed to bait.

read this, and it was the giveaway for me. I was stuck in this zone for ages.

1) you may be giving off vibes that are too bossy. "play me Ill, show you I am the game"..."I know all your little tricks"

I became fun, but showed them I have self respect most importantly a mystery/poker face.

2) their hypergamy just thinks F*ck that, alpha as sh*t with a 1 bedroom apartment?, what a clown. ironically put the same guy in a 5 bedroom house and theyll rationalise how masculine/sexy he is.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

In my current social sphere there’s women (22-29) that are single and I /think/ they find me attractive. I’ve read my Tomassi, I got decent social skills, I got a look/competence, etc. I express interest (but I don’t double text, for instance), and I vibe with them in conversations to the degree that they reciprocate with personal questions, I got IOIs.

But still, they simply don’t submit to my frame; they milk the environment for attention, but somehow seem surprised when I don’t simp like the guys they’ve managed to bait.

I can think of various explanations to this:

1. “They’re simply not that into you, bro/you’re not high value/they’re all low-interest girls.”
2. These are very “modern women”. They’re all musicians/producers/etc., so these are not the usual school girls. The things is, it’s as if they expect men to submit (and some here do), but we all know the girls actually don’t want that. It’s the usual power struggle of submitting, but it’s a stall mate here.
3. No one wants to get hurt in love. They don’t want to go on a limb.
4. I need to figure out some way to seduce these girls, some way to escalate. The major problem I see here is that in a tight social circle (a school of 200 students) it’s hard to escalate without the risk of some kind of social **** storm.

I would say 4 is the only thing I can do much about. Suggestions welcome.

Keep in mind that a lot of people on YouTube don't approach or pull but shill ebooks or digital programs. I dont necessarily disagree with points like game or frame. It's just notable for all the game content nobody but troy Francis or tusk has receipts.


Not doing it right kuz.

The game is COMPLIANCE. Comply or bye.

The percentage of women worthy of a call back is as low as 1%. Maybe lower. Translation - you better be sourcing like mad.

From go, I don't date modern women or feminists. If she demostrates ANY of the following she's Netflix and chill material. Not even rotation material.

I lead. She follows. Or next!

Fellas need to be a cut throat mercenary &&& Absolute savage with your time. Any hot or cold, any ****ery or shenanigans you pull the chute. She gets with the program, my program or kindly ****ery off.

Obviously you need to have game. Turn on the charm and charisma. The other part part is that bad boy vibe. To sweet talk her clothes off 1 sec and the next to sec GTFO!

The instant she crosses boundaries ^^^ she's out.

YouTube is full of Internet tough guys. Everybody is pulling 10s no receipts. Marriage bad but secretly married.


Learn from every source you can extract value from. Vet your gurus wisely. Discard the vast majority.

 

[Bokanovsky]

In my current social sphere there’s women (22-29) that are single and I /think/ they find me attractive. I’ve read my Tomassi, I got decent social skills, I got a look/competence, etc. I express interest (but I don’t double text, for instance), and I vibe with them in conversations to the degree that they reciprocate with personal questions, I got IOIs.

But still, they simply don’t submit to my frame; they milk the environment for attention, but somehow seem surprised when I don’t simp like the guys they’ve managed to bait.

I can think of various explanations to this:

1. “They’re simply not that into you, bro/you’re not high value/they’re all low-interest girls.”
2. These are very “modern women”. They’re all musicians/producers/etc., so these are not the usual school girls. The things is, it’s as if they expect men to submit (and some here do), but we all know the girls actually don’t want that. It’s the usual power struggle of submitting, but it’s a stall mate here.
3. No one wants to get hurt in love. They don’t want to go on a limb.
4. I need to figure out some way to seduce these girls, some way to escalate. The major problem I see here is that in a tight social circle (a school of 200 students) it’s hard to escalate without the risk of some kind of social **** storm.

I would say 4 is the only thing I can do much about. Suggestions welcome.

In order for girls to “submit” to your frame, you have to stand out (in a positive way) from the rest of your social circle. You have to be exceptional in some way, whether by being rich, or being way better looking than other men in your social group, or being a natural leader that others look up to. Having “decent” social skills and being attractive “enough” is not sufficient to maintain a frame that others will readily submit to.

 

[Striker_93]

You just don't have it, you either never will or will at some point, who knows......

It's all about how you carry yourself around them and there level of attraction towards you.

When a women desires you sexually and is lustful and turned on by you they are the upmost submissive and fall all in your frame, damn near do whatever you say.

Without that raw lustful attraction then it won't happen.

Your problem is probably a combination of how you carry yourself and them just not being all that into you. And when I say attraction I'm not talking about "oh he's nice and a cool guy"

I'm talking about raw sexual attraction, hence the reason when your fvcking a girl who's lustful for you, you can literally get her to do the most nastiest sh!t in bed, women will literally let you completely degrade them, trust me.

 

[user252009]

Because you're trying to force to be something you're not, and they can smell it. Be yourself. Also, they have way more options than you do. Unless you're a millionaire Chad with an exciting lifestyle, they will easily replace you.

 

[IKO69]

I mean you said nothing about what your interactions are like, how long you try etc. They aren't going to "submit to your frame" (whatever that is) just because you have a penis lol. You've just enumerated a couple of reasons as to why, but without context there is no way to give you proper advice. I do know if you feel you are trying "too hard" then you are doing it wrong/leave those women alone. It should never be hard. There is slight push-pull to a degree but if you scratching your head weeks on end and constantly analyzing everything, then it's safe it's a bad situation. Interested women make it very easy for you.

Most importantly are you asking them out?

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

OP this.
Think. "Entitlement" try to cultivate zn idea that you are entitled to her attention and her body. Without breaking the law.

Not breaking the law ftw.

Art of seduction speaks about seducing the right target willing to be seduced.

Again herein lies why VOLUME is king. Compliance or place on disregard.

 

[MatureDJ]

In my current social sphere there’s women (22-29) that are single and I /think/ they find me attractive. I’ve read my Tomassi, I got decent social skills, I got a look/competence, etc. I express interest (but I don’t double text, for instance), and I vibe with them in conversations to the degree that they reciprocate with personal questions, I got IOIs.

But still, they simply don’t submit to my frame; they milk the environment for attention, but somehow seem surprised when I don’t simp like the guys they’ve managed to bait.

I can think of various explanations to this:

1. “They’re simply not that into you, bro/you’re not high value/they’re all low-interest girls.”
2. These are very “modern women”. They’re all musicians/producers/etc., so these are not the usual school girls. The things is, it’s as if they expect men to submit (and some here do), but we all know the girls actually don’t want that. It’s the usual power struggle of submitting, but it’s a stall mate here.
3. No one wants to get hurt in love. They don’t want to go on a limb.
4. I need to figure out some way to seduce these girls, some way to escalate. The major problem I see here is that in a tight social circle (a school of 200 students) it’s hard to escalate without the risk of some kind of social **** storm.

I would say 4 is the only thing I can do much about. Suggestions welcome.

Here's the explanation:

They have options, and you DON'T.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

You haven't provided enough detail as to what it is that you want that you think you aren't getting and what your end goal actually is. I get the sense that you are trying to follow some sort of step by step game play-book, and in this book there is this phase called "compliance" and until you get past that phase, you can't ask a girl out on a date or into the bedroom etc.

I think that whole "get compliance first then ask for date" approach is for guys who are too afraid to get rejected because they are inexperienced and because they haven't mastered the inner-game of not giving a F if a girl turns you down. So they dance around the girl trying to get her to comply, and to the girl, something seems "off" or disingenuous or not normal. It's because it is forced and it is NOT normal behavior. So for example, you might flirt with them and do something to try to get compliance but it's the wrong thing at the wrong time and they start wondering if there might be something wrong with you. After that, you may be acting a bit too cold-fish (I'm just reading between the lines in your statement about not simping or giving them attention), which then is incongruent with how you were treating them before, and finally, the fact that you aren't asking them out on a date is just more incongruence.

Think of compliance like a bank account. The emptier your bank account, the less compliance you will get from a woman - you have to build the bank account up first. The more you build it (by attracting her - some of that could be through your actions and some could be your status and some could what she thinks of your looks), the more she likes you, the more compliance she will give. Without that, you can't really expect compliance, and again, it's not quite socially normal to ask for compliance from people who have no reason to give it to you.

Best to avoid the whole compliance thing for now and simply talk with and flirt with girls and if a girl you are talking to seems interested in conversation and responds to your flirting, just ask her out. It is literally as simple as that. "Hey I have to run right now, but I liked talking to you - we should get together soon." See what she says. If she says sure then say, "Alright, give me your number and I'll reach out soon to set it up" then text her 2-5 days later with a specific day/time/place. That's IT.

 

[anonymous12345]

I’d say that we all want women to submit, the male to be dominating and a healthy polarity.

The women in my sphere does not initially act like that, however. They are musicians and “contemporary women” that perform, are autonomous, and so forth. In my interactions it’s as if they expect me to chase and submit, something no one in the long run want.

What does this mean? I think the key here is to distinguish short term vs long term. I think one has to swallow one’s preferences momentarily, and let the woman lean onto you later on, which is when she is more comfortable with that. So, there is some slightly submissive seduction/multiple approaches-phase required. Slight persistence.

Maybe this is just theoretical bs.

 

[kavi]

Chasing, Persistence and Pursuing is not submission, when done right. In this current system many women expect some of this. Sometimes the women want to be 'broken' before they submit. I think you want them to be easy or something but they want you to MAKE them like you.

 

[derby1]

Because you're trying to force to be something you're not, and they can smell it. Be yourself. Also, they have way more options than you do. Unless you're a millionaire Chad with an exciting lifestyle, they will easily replace you.

Ive said this all along, if you travel from our working class towns in the UK, out to local villages about 7 miles out. the women behave totally different. Fit, feminine, friendly and ZERO orbiters on their SM.

Its amazing what supplying a 4 bedroom house, and two nice cars on the drive makes a woman behave.

you go back to the 2 bedroom houses of the working class area, and she will be constantly uploading selfies, and girls night out, Unruly and uncooperative,

the only way you would get a chic to be cooperative without resources is to be ripped and sexy af.

 

[wifehunter]