There is no such thing as "transgender"

[Deep Dish]

Wyldfire:
One of my fathers' best friend's daughter had a little girl when I was about 12 or 13 years old. The girl's mother was very girly and she tried her best to raise her daughter that way...but from a young age the little girl fought it. There were no little boys around her, she was an only child. She lived with her grandparents, mother and two aunts...all women were girly and the grandfather was a normal hard working guy who was gone all day until dinner time and stayed home on Sundays. From the time the little girl could talk she insisted she was a boy. She demanded that everyone called her a boy's name that she had picked. This was from about 4 or 5 years old. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. The older she got, the more demanding she became. When they tried to put dresses on her she would rip them off and tear them to shreds.

Bizarre, indeed, and indeed, not a result of socialization. I find it peculiarly interesting the violent motif in your story; the über-early insistence of being a boy, the demanding of naming conventions, the ripping and shredding of clothing. Above all, all contrary to the non-support of the parents, supporting in every way except for encouraging the delusion. In my opinion, it would seem a much better example of proper parental attitude than the mother quoted atop the original post whom embraced and facilitated her young boy was a ”she.”

 

[Obsidian]

You do NOT spank a child because they have a psychological disorder.

I'm well aware that violence alone can't correct inaccurate thought processes. But imho, giving in to this "psychological disorder" only makes it worse. This is not natural or something parents should support in any way.

When they tried to put dresses on her she would rip them off and tear them to shreds.

----> spanking

It was either that or she would have been thrown out of school. Her behavior in school was extremely disruptive

----> spanking


and I seriously wonder what kind of "therapy" she was undergoing if it had so little effect. May it was the type of therapy that embraces this nonsense.

You obviously don't see this situation as being as detrimental as I do. Otherwise you wouldn't accept any sort of surrender to it. Nothing could be worse than having a child turn out the way that kid did in the first article. Cognitive behavioral therapy can't be any less effective than hormone supplements -- because sex-change procedure = FAILURE. That kid in the article should at least read the Book of Pook or something.

Problems consist of inaccurate thoughts, out-of-whack emotions, and often hormonal imbalances corresponding to these conditions. The problem does NOT come from the fact that these children are born with the "soul" of the opposite sex or any such bullsh1t.

 

[seanchai]

Problems consist of inaccurate thoughts, out-of-whack emotions, and often hormonal imbalances corresponding to these conditions. The problem does NOT come from the fact that these children are born with the "soul" of the opposite sex or any such bullsh1t.

I fail to see how spanking a child corrects inaccurate thoughts, out-of-whack emotions, and hormonal imbalance. I didn't know there was empirical data on effectiveness of spanking as a valid treatment, but since you cited CBT I would be interested to see it.

 

[Obsidian]

you're not reading the whole damn post, idiot. The spankings are for disobedience.

 

[Wyldfire]

Bizarre, indeed, and indeed, not a result of socialization. I find it peculiarly interesting the violent motif in your story; the über-early insistence of being a boy, the demanding of naming conventions, the ripping and shredding of clothing. Above all, all contrary to the non-support of the parents, supporting in every way except for encouraging the delusion. In my opinion, it would seem a much better example of proper parental attitude than the mother quoted atop the original post whom embraced and facilitated her young boy was a ”she.”

The violence only showed itself when they tried to force her to dress like a girl or play with dolls. When they pushed her she fought it tooth and nail. This was also close to 30 years ago, so there wasn't any encouragement or support for families to just accept things like this. This was a very, very good family. The one messed up thing that happened in the girl's life happened when she was an infant...her father died. I almost think he committed suicide, but am not sure since they didn't live in our town until after he had died. I used to spend quite a bit of time there because my father's friend was one of my sister's godfather. They were calm, patient, well adjusted...nothing out of whack. This is why I think this kind of thing has a lot to do with brain chemistry. IF the girl's father did kill himself then maybe he had some psychological problems and she was just more susceptible to psychological problems. There was no indication at all that it was her environment or socialization that caused her issues. Once they let her be who she felt she was at home, she cooperated at school...went by her name and dressed like a tomboy. I wish I knew how it turned out with her, but I really have no clue.

 

[Wyldfire]

I'm well aware that violence alone can't correct inaccurate thought processes. But imho, giving in to this "psychological disorder" only makes it worse. This is not natural or something parents should support in any way.

Do you even realize how utterly ridiculous that statement sounds? A person with a mental health disorder cannot help that they are sick. You don't treat illness with violence EVER.

----> spanking

They tried that and it did NOT work.

----> spanking

They tried that and it did NOT work.

This was almost 30 years ago when kids DID get spanked quite routinely. It did NOT fix the problem.

and I seriously wonder what kind of "therapy" she was undergoing if it had so little effect. May it was the type of therapy that embraces this nonsense.

Nope...this was almost 30 years ago, and back then no one "embraced" any sexual identity issues at all...hence the disruption it was causing in school.

You obviously don't see this situation as being as detrimental as I do. Otherwise you wouldn't accept any sort of surrender to it. Nothing could be worse than having a child turn out the way that kid did in the first article. Cognitive behavioral therapy can't be any less effective than hormone supplements -- because sex-change procedure = FAILURE. That kid in the article should at least read the Book of Pook or something.

Some people are born with mental health problems...and can't help that. You can't beat them well. All you can do is love your kid and try your best to help them overcome the problem as best you can. Sometimes it simply cannot be overcome and you are left with one choice...accept and love your child as they are.

Problems consist of inaccurate thoughts, out-of-whack emotions, and often hormonal imbalances corresponding to these conditions. The problem does NOT come from the fact that these children are born with the "soul" of the opposite sex or any such bullsh1t.

They are born repulsed, disgusted and with deep hatred of their genitals and gender and feel contempt for all that reminds them that they are a member of that sex. Surely you can't think ANY person would WANT to feel that way or purposely set themselves up for so much pain, humiliation and alienation?

 

[Bonhomme]

If you've got a Y, you're definitely a guy ... as far as I'm concerned. But if such a "transgendered" guy wants to be addressed as a woman, fine. Doesn't matter to me, regardless of my own opinion. As long as he doesn't hoodwink unsuspecting straight guys into having gay sex with him ...

 

[dirtyvibe]

1) reading through that article, the parents sound like hippie liberal idiots


2) No, it's because your gender usually does determine your romantic attractions.

1) You may find it disgusting but the "boy" Jeremy sounds like "he" is now very happy about himself. If he had been raised with non-hippie-liberal-idiots parents that didn't accept him and tried to force an environment on him that didn't fit his brain chemistry then he would have ended up with a whole lot of other mental problems (depression, suicidal, etc) in addition to his gender identity disorder. Just going with the flow and acting like a boy if your brain chemistry tells you that you should be a boy seems to be the best treatment available for gender identity disorder.

Anyways, a disorder is classified as causing harm to the person with the disorder. If Jeremy is now happy about himself then he really doesn't have a disorder any more. The only person getting hurt now is you since you seem to be more disturbed about Jeremy being a boy than he is. It sounds more like you technically have some sort of disorder.

2) Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Master Bates]

A person doesn't just identify themself as male or female based on what's between their legs. It's the wiring of their brain and the balance of hormones and chemicals that dermines their gender behaviorly and sexually, regardless of what's between the legs. That's where these people's confusion arises, when the two don't match up. It may seem like hippy GLBT AFC sh't to you, but the situation isn't exactly fair to those who are born with such a condition. How would you like it if the way you felt about your gender and sexuality didn't match the body you were born with?

 

[Obsidian]

wow, the hippies are really coming out now in this forum now...

The only person getting hurt now is you

You must be retarded if you really believe that.

How would you like it if the way you felt about your gender and sexuality didn't match the body you were born with?

Let me let you in on a secret: It's easier to change your thought processes than your genetic make-up.

Just going with the flow and acting like a boy if your brain chemistry tells you that you should be a boy seems to be the best treatment available for gender identity disorder.

Yes, and we should all just go on acting feminine or gender-neutral because our brain chemistry tells us to be AFCs. Oh wait, our lives would suck if we did that -- kinda like these kids' lives will suck now due to idiotic parents.

It's the wiring of their brain and the balance of hormones and chemicals that dermines their gender behaviorly and sexually, regardless of what's between the legs.

Chemicals are interrelated with thoughts. If you fix the thoughts and work on the emotions then the chemicals can balance themselves out more. That said, it would make more sense to be giving these kids more of their natural chemicals than to try to make them into something they're not. Help the kids accept what they are!

 

[dirtyvibe]

Chemicals are interrelated with thoughts.

It's not the brain chemistry, it's the neural pathways. If you want to change their identity, you're going to need to perform a lobotomy on part of their brain and replace those neurons with neurons from someone who identified as the correct gender.

 

[Bonhomme]

Why do so many people want to fvck with other people's business when it doesn't affect them?

 

[KarmaSutra]

Either way this 10 year old fvcking cupcake is going to end up a catcher not a pitcher. Fe/he or Shim or Trans-testicle or whatever else you call it, won't make any difference to my life when I wake up later so I could give a fvck less.

His/Her life is the one going to be full of turmoil and bullsh!t. Hope it's a fun ride though. Fairy fvck.

 

[Obsidian]

Why do so many people want to fvck with other people's business when it doesn't affect them?

because we care about morality? Even from a perspective of self-interest like you advocate, any society that allows parents to f*ck up their children is a bad place to be. I'm not a child anymore myself; does that mean I should tolerate parental neglect?

 

[Bonhomme]

This fellow's own biological makeup is what fvcked him up. As far as I'm concerned, it's immoral to change someone against their will. Straight out of Hitler's program. "Morality" is the most standard excuse for out-and-out sadism.

 

[Wyldfire]

because we care about morality? Even from a perspective of self-interest like you advocate, any society that allows parents to f*ck up their children is a bad place to be. I'm not a child anymore myself; does that mean I should tolerate parental neglect?

Perhaps you don't understand that morality is something one should apply to themselves, not onto others. Another facet of morality is to NOT hate others or treat others badly. Do NOT try to use the bible to beat other people who are different than you over the head. That is the biggest sin of all. God is the only one with the right to judge people. Let Him do His job. Worry about what YOU do, not what other people do. Furthermore, I've read enough of your posts to KNOW that you do NOT live according to God's word. I might give you a bit more room if you weren't being so hypocritical. When you live your life as pure as the driven snow THEN you might have a little room to preach morality. Until then, you really have no business trying to disguise your obvious hatred for what you don't understand as "morality". Give it a rest...

 

[Obsidian]

That is the biggest sin of all.

I'm not even talking about religion; cut the hippie crap, Wyldfire. I think the biggest sin of all is letting a child mutilate his body instead of learning to accept what he really is. And I don't accept morality lessons from illogical women.

This "biological make-up" nonsense is pure bullsh1t. You guys are saying that CBT and/or drugs will cure other mental illnesses related to structural/chemical brain abnormalities, but for some reason, THIS SPECIFIC ILLNESS is incurable. And the reason it's incurable is because it isn't related to chemical deficiencies but instead to the "wiring of the brain." Well, how convenient for your argument...and how scientific. You can use fancy terms like "neural pathways" all you want, but they don't distinguish this illness from all others.

And children aren't old enough to make these types of decisions for themselves. Parents should have some sense. No this issue doesn't directly affect me, but it's upsetting when adults allow children to f*ck up their lives permanently.

This whole thread is completely parallel to the situation most of us faced before we found this site. We've had society feminizing us and telling us men that it's okay to turn ourselves into women. No, it's not okay. We have to accept what we really are for true happiness.

 

[seanchai]

you're not reading the whole damn post, idiot. The spankings are for disobedience.

Where in the post do you offer a solution to correct these things, then? Reading Pook?

 

[Obsidian]

How about denying the fantasy? Teaching the kid what its gender really is? Feeding a fantasy only makes it stronger.

I'm not a psychologist, but I know there are people who have these sorts of feelings that don't act on them, at least not to the extent these children are willing to. Artificial hormones from the opposite sex combined with eventual genital mutilation is not a cure. You can't make yourself into something you're not...watch the freakin' southpark episode.

 

[Wyldfire]

Obsidian...as you pointed out...you aren't a psychologist. I'm not either...yet, but am currently in college to become one. I've also studied psychology for over 25 years.

I'm also a LOGICAL person. Me being a woman has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I'm not a "hippie" either...I'm actually somewhat conservative politically...so do not assume that I must be an "illogical liberal hippie" to disagree with you.

While I would not ever support a child being allowed to have a sex change operation...I would also never support a parent trying to beat a child into conformity when they have a mental health issue that causes their behavior. Sometimes you need to set aside your own personal feelings and just do what is best for the child. Unconditional love and support and an education is necessary in situations such as this. Yes, you try to encourage the child to embrace their gender...but the harder you push the more they will resist. That's how children are. If you act like it's not a big deal and don't over-react the child is actually MORE likely to out-grow it and eventually embrace the gender they were born as.

You are dead wrong on this issue.