There’s A Scientific Reason Why Women Are Attracted To Taller Men

[LTG71]

Yeah. I’m a sucker for the George Clooney type.

But my fiancé is dark blonde, blue eyed and Norse looking. He is tall at 6’3” but trim at an athletic 175 lbs. He’s not my typical tall dark & handsome but he’s definitely tall and handsome. I’m 5’6” so we are very near that 8 inch differential in height. I wear very high platform heels often, and am still shorter than him, which is fabulous.

This phrase became popular in the 1900s, pushed by Hollywood to describe the actor Rudolph Valentino, who had the nick name of “Latin lover”. Another term which has stuck around as well as an archetype women strive to find. The ironic thing about Valentino was that he was recorded to be somewhere between 5’8”-5’11”. He was not ridiculously tall but more likely romantically portrayed in the movies which gave women the tingles. To me this is a huge social influence from the media. The media steers people to believe what is ”in fashion” and what we should desire. They’re trying really hard in 2023 with this “body positivity“ nonsense by putting obese women on covers of magazines. Sorry, but men’s evolutionary biology has certain qualifiers just like those of women. Funny how men’s magazines didn’t bother to put obese and/or dad bod models on covers, because we all know this is complete BS. Women don’t desire a fat guy, definitely not a short one either.

As for female heights, Kim Kardashian is only 5’2”, Jennifer Lopez, 5’5”. In real life, most men would probably consider both of them too short and plump. Hard to recognize how tall these celebrities are in real life. 5’2” with that azz? Wow! Jennifer Lopez looks way taller, probably because of camera angles always looking up at her on stage.

This notion of men’s height is not a revelation. Women want to “look up“ to a man just like they did when they were little girls and daddy was her protector. The little girl is still there inside. She also is in competition with all the other little girls and they want the same. Hive mentality. In this case, it’s a guy that is 6’ or more.

 

[SW15]

I've seen tons of hispanic men, who are quite a bit shorter than the average non Mediterranean white man, that are in relationships with very attractive hispanic women. Some of this is cultural for sure, it's normal for hispanic men to be like 5'4" lol so their women don't think much of it. Hell, I'm 6'4" and athletically built and I have a difficult time in my latino dominated area lol.

Because you look feminine/weird. You’ve been here years saying the same thing. Yes you’re tall, yes you go to the gym, but you have a queer look, no hair and pluck your eyebrows. Women don’t like that. They also don’t like socially awkward weirdos that can’t hold a convo and give off desperate psycho vibes.

A 6'4" man with a muscular physique is the foundation for being a top tier man, or a "Chad" as some people say.

There are some interesting points brought up that could be causes for why a 6'4" guy with muscles is not slaying a lot of poontang.

Baldness alone wouldn't be a reason. A shaved head look can work on a tall, muscular man.

A queer look with plucked eyebrows could offset any advantages of being 6'4" and muscular. I do not know if that is the case.

Social awkwardness can also offset advantages of being 6'4" and muscular. It's difficult to say with certainty if that's the case. @sangheilios is well spoken here and would not come off as socially awkward at all. Additionally, when a man is 6'4" and muscular, he has more leeway/a higher threshold for what women would consider socially awkward and/or creepy behavior. An average height man with an average build has a lower threshold for what woman consider awkward or creepy.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Survival of the prettiest: The strange power of attractive people

From picking mates to picking politicians, new research says society's bias toward attractiveness has ugly results

macleans.ca

 

[BadBoy89]

A 6'4" man with a muscular physique is the foundation for being a top tier man, or a "Chad" as some people say.

There are some interesting points brought up that could be causes for why a 6'4" guy with muscles is not slaying a lot of poontang.

Baldness alone wouldn't be a reason. A shaved head look can work on a tall, muscular man.

A queer look with plucked eyebrows could offset any advantages of being 6'4" and muscular. I do not know if that is the case.

Social awkwardness can also offset advantages of being 6'4" and muscular. It's difficult to say with certainty if that's the case. @sangheilios is well spoken here and would not come off as socially awkward at all. Additionally, when a man is 6'4" and muscular, he has more leeway/a higher threshold for what women would consider socially awkward and/or creepy behavior. An average height man with an average build has a lower threshold for what woman consider awkward or creepy.

It’s funny, all girls want a tall man, but the height of the man almost has to be between 6’0-6’2.

5’11 is too short.
6’3 is too tall.

Girls also don’t care too much about a man’s height when they are in their 20s. Its only when they are in their 30s, looking to “commit” and “have children with”, then the man’s height is of utmost importance. I‘m not 6’0 and got the hottest girls in my 20s. Now, if I go on dates with 37 year older women, they won’t look at me twice because of my height.

The more ”mature” and “older” and “less attractive” a woman gets, the more her “expectations” go up. Rock on!

 

[Mike32ct]

Just say you’re 5’12”. If she still rejects you, she failed the IQ test.

 

[sangheilios]

A 6'4" man with a muscular physique is the foundation for being a top tier man, or a "Chad" as some people say.

There are some interesting points brought up that could be causes for why a 6'4" guy with muscles is not slaying a lot of poontang.

Baldness alone wouldn't be a reason. A shaved head look can work on a tall, muscular man.

A queer look with plucked eyebrows could offset any advantages of being 6'4" and muscular. I do not know if that is the case.

Social awkwardness can also offset advantages of being 6'4" and muscular. It's difficult to say with certainty if that's the case. @sangheilios is well spoken here and would not come off as socially awkward at all. Additionally, when a man is 6'4" and muscular, he has more leeway/a higher threshold for what women would consider socially awkward and/or creepy behavior. An average height man with an average build has a lower threshold for what woman consider awkward or creepy.

I've had that jackass on my ignore list for a very long time now, he just follows me around for no reason. I saw a post not that long ago about him being hypogonadal, so it all makes sense lol.

Anyway,

I have no idea what he is referring to you about plucked eyebrows, that's not something that I do lol. However, I actually have had a woman ask me if I shape my eyebrows once, this was a few years ago. Again, I don't do this and it's just genetics lol.

I'm also closer to 40 than I am 20 now. What does the average man around my age look like? I'll tell you one thing, he sure has hell isn't well over 6' tall AND very fit and athletically built lol.

With all of this said, I've been out of the game for quite a while now. I think the last time I asked a woman out was around fall of 2019, I gave up due to have nothing but bad experiences that lead to literally lead to nothing. In fact, I'd more often than not totally regret even bothering in the first place lol. Here's the thing, the experiences that I have had in the dating scene are the NORM for the majority of young(ish) men today. I've noticed a trend on youtube over the last year or so where these channels discussing dating issues have really been taking off. I also saw this piece on the mainstream news talking about 2/3 of young men being single, do you think these two things are a coincidence?

I personally believe that the posters on here severely underestimate just how bad the current dating climate is. I also highly suspect that many of the posters on here who talk about having a ton of success over recent history are either outright lying or at best just heavily exaggerating these claims. If they were having such success, do you think they'd be posting on here regularly? lol

 

[Murk]

@sangheilios is well spoken here and would not come off as socially awkward at all. Additionally, when a man is 6'4" and muscular, he has more leeway/a higher threshold for what women would consider socially awkward and/or creepy behavior.

So please, in your expert opinion, tell us why this 6'4 adonis is an incel? He posted many pics years ago stating he was an 8-9/10 of which he is not. I also remember the threads of his awkwardness and approaching fails, that's how I come to my conclusion.

 

[sangheilios]

It’s funny, all girls want a tall man, but the height of the man almost has to be between 6’0-6’2.

5’11 is too short.
6’3 is too tall.

Girls also don’t care too much about a man’s height when they are in their 20s. Its only when they are in their 30s, looking to “commit” and “have children with”, then the man’s height is of utmost importance. I‘m not 6’0 and got the hottest girls in my 20s. Now, if I go on dates with 37 year older women, they won’t look at me twice because of my height.

The more ”mature” and “older” and “less attractive” a woman gets, the more her “expectations” go up. Rock on!

One definite fact is that the vast majority of women will NOT date a man that is shorter than they are. I don't have the exact numbers on hand, but the overwhelming majority of men will be tall enough to potentially date the majority of women. As I mentioned on my other post, I also believe that some of this is cultural.

I live in a latino heavy area and I've seen tons of these hispanic men, who are often quite short by European descent standards, dating quite attractive hispanic women. The thing is, these women will have fathers or be surrounded by men growing up that are in this height range, so they don't deem it as important of a quality. Women have a tendency to go for men that resemble their fathers or adult men in their lives when they were growing up.

With all of this said, women are substantially pickier now than they have ever been. She might say she wants a guy that is 6'2"+ but then when she meets a guy that matches this criteria she then says he has to be tan, whereas he is more lighter skinned. Then she meets a guy that is 6'2"+ and tan but then she says she doesn't like his build, she wants a guy that is more muscular. Thens she meets a guy that is 6'2", tan and muscular but then she says he is too big lol. That's what women are like lol.

Here's the trend, men should just not give a damn about what women think and just live their best lives. Things become much easier and more enjoyable when you just disregard women.

 

[SW15]

It’s funny, all girls want a tall man, but the height of the man almost has to be between 6’0-6’2.

5’11 is too short.
6’3 is too tall.

Girls also don’t care too much about a man’s height when they are in their 20s. Its only when they are in their 30s, looking to “commit” and “have children with”, then the man’s height is of utmost importance. I‘m not 6’0 and got the hottest girls in my 20s. Now, if I go on dates with 37 year older women, they won’t look at me twice because of my height.

The more ”mature” and “older” and “less attractive” a woman gets, the more her “expectations” go up. Rock on!

I agree that women don't reduce their demands as they age but disagree that height is unimportant to 20 something women. I would expand the ideal range from 6'0"-6'2" to 6'0"-6'4".

One definite fact is that the vast majority of women will NOT date a man that is shorter than they are. I don't have the exact numbers on hand, but the overwhelming majority of men will be tall enough to potentially date the majority of women. As I mentioned on my other post, I also believe that some of this is cultural.

You are correct that women won't date shorter but the height expectations are getting ridiculous.

With all of this said, women are substantially pickier now than they have ever been. She might say she wants a guy that is 6'2"+ but then when she meets a guy that matches this criteria she then says he has to be tan, whereas he is more lighter skinned. Then she meets a guy that is 6'2"+ and tan but then she says she doesn't like his build, she wants a guy that is more muscular. Thens she meets a guy that is 6'2", tan and muscular but then she says he is too big lol. That's what women are like lol.

Here's the trend, men should just not give a damn about what women think and just live their best lives. Things become much easier and more enjoyable when you just disregard women.

Yes, women are fussier than ever, which is why there are women like Brittany Allyn taking a "me-moon" across Europe at 37 and Jillian Sanders at 40-41 writing about her lifestyle that she's a Ms. Right living for herself after collecting notches in NYC for 15 years and rejecting marriage from a rich guy.

Women are sending more and more acceptable men to the reject pile. This is why there are instances of a 6'4" man with muscles from an intense workout regimen taking a ton of rejections. Despite having the foundation for being a top tier man (a "Chad"), a 6'4" man with muscles has taken too many rejections.

 

[sangheilios]

I agree that women don't reduce their demands as they age but disagree that height is unimportant to 20 something women. I would expand the ideal range from 6'0"-6'2" to 6'0"-6'4".



You are correct that women won't date shorter but the height expectations are getting ridiculous.



Yes, women are fussier than ever, which is why there are women like Brittany Allyn taking a "me-moon" across Europe at 37 and Jillian Sanders at 40-41 writing about her lifestyle that she's a Ms. Right living for herself after collecting notches in NYC for 15 years and rejecting marriage from a rich guy.

Women are sending more and more acceptable men to the reject pile. This is why there are instances of a 6'4" man with muscles from an intense workout regimen taking a ton of rejections. Despite having the foundation for being a top tier man (a "Chad"), a 6'4" man with muscles has taken too many rejections.

I've been positing about this for years but I'm noticing that these topics are becoming far more prevalent recently. I saw this a couple weeks back in my youtube feed, the fact that it made it's way to a mainstream news channel, CNN, says A LOT about deep the problem is.

Why the rate of single men in the US looking for dates has declined - YouTube

And I totally agree with your comment about women sending acceptable men to the reject pile. The vast majority of young men are not well into obese territory, drug addicts, homeless, etc. They are just regular young men that have lives, interests, goals, etc. I personally believe that social media in combination with dating apps is what created this problem. There are plenty of stats that show just how bad dating apps are for men overall. However, I think it goes well beyond this and I also believe that the pandemic essentially magnified this issue.

I use myself as an example a lot but I've seen a ton of crazy things that other men have gone through. I still remember this story from a few years back about a guy I knew that worked at a bank. His coworkers set up one of the tellers, a fat girl, on a date with someone they knew. Anyway, long story short she said she wasn't interested, they ask why and it's because he was overweight lol. I also remember about a year or so ago seeing this guy at the gym approaching this woman that was around his looks match. She scrunched up her nose and acted all awkward lol. This **** is common now and I just don't see it getting any better.

I remember about 4 years ago going to a speed dating event that was filled with a bunch of average looking women around my own age, so it's not like they were 18 and I was in my late 20s lol. Anyway, I got nothing but rejection from it lol. If a woman is single in her late 20s or early 30s and deems a man around her own age who is 6'4" and athletic/fit not good enough for even a first date there is something wrong with her. Granted, that's not the best place to meet women but you get my point, these women are single and obviously looking since they are going OUT of their way to go to such an event. I also get this feeling that they either have no idea what it is that they are looking for OR are not really looking for anything.

I personally believe that all of this is going to lead to a population collapse decades from now. I also believe that sex robots will legitimately become a thing in the not too distant future. It's rather unfortunate that young men are in this predicament that they really can't do anything about. Not all women are this ****ed up and warped, but enough of them are where it is having broader ramifications on the dating market as a whole.

 

[SW15]

I totally agree with your comment about women sending acceptable men to the reject pile. The vast majority of young men are not well into obese territory, drug addicts, homeless, etc. They are just regular young men that have lives, interests, goals, etc. I personally believe that social media in combination with dating apps is what created this problem. There are plenty of stats that show just how bad dating apps are for men overall. However, I think it goes well beyond this and I also believe that the pandemic essentially magnified this issue.

I remember about 4 years ago going to a speed dating event that was filled with a bunch of average looking women around my own age, so it's not like they were 18 and I was in my late 20s lol. Anyway, I got nothing but rejection from it lol. If a woman is single in her late 20s or early 30s and deems a man around her own age who is 6'4" and athletic/fit not good enough for even a first date there is something wrong with her. Granted, that's not the best place to meet women but you get my point, these women are single and obviously looking since they are going OUT of their way to go to such an event. I also get this feeling that they either have no idea what it is that they are looking for OR are not really looking for anything.

It's rather unfortunate that young men are in this predicament that they really can't do anything about. Not all women are this ****ed up and warped, but enough of them are where it is having broader ramifications on the dating market as a whole.

I agree with everything in quotations. A 6'4" man with a muscular frame does not deserve the substandard treatment you've received. 6'4" and fit/muscular is the foundation of being a top tier man. All of your perceptions make sense.

I had a quote in another thread about rejection. At a certain point, the pain of rejection becomes so intense that it causes psychological damage. This is something happening to many men. This is why you've decided not to actively date. Female fussiness and female abundance are causing more rejections for men.

 

[BadBoy89]

And I totally agree with your comment about women sending acceptable men to the reject pile. The vast majority of young men are not well into obese territory, drug addicts, homeless, etc. They are just regular young men that have lives, interests, goals, etc. I personally believe that social media in combination with dating apps is what created this problem.

I think it started way before social media and dating apps.

I‘m older and was in high school in mid 90s. I wasn’t getting tall and was freaking out, also started noticing the “power flip” when I was 16. It got so bad that I skipped a class one day and the school called my parents. My dad destroyed me and embarrased me in front of my whole family. I tried to explain to him and he shut down me down hard. My mom agreed with him.

Now my parents are begging me to get a child so they can have a grandchild. They will pay me $1,000,000 to get a surrogate. Get lost. You didn’t care when I was young and cared, but now you care? I don’t think so.

 

[sangheilios]

I think it started way before social media and dating apps.

I‘m older and was in high school in mid 90s. I wasn’t getting tall and was freaking out, also started noticing the “power flip” when I was 16. It got so bad that I skipped a class one day and the school called my parents. My dad destroyed me and embarrased me in front of my whole family. I tried to explain to him and he shut down me down hard. My mom agreed with him.

Now my parents are begging me to get a child so they can have a grandchild. They will pay me $1,000,000 to get a surrogate. Get lost. You didn’t care when I was young and cared, but now you care? I don’t think so.

Well, dating apps and social media definitely made it worse. There is no doubt that both fertility and marriage rates are on the decline. Sexlessness is also rapidly increasing, you can see that trend beginning when social media first started becoming the norm in the late 2000s. However, I also feel there are social reasons outside of technology that are at play.

Many millennials, particularly those that grew up in a middle class or better environment, are from households that are divorced. When I was growing up by the time I was in middle school it was the NORM for both parents to be divorced. I personally believe that when children see what their parents go through during a divorce it scars them in a way that is counter to that of wanting to get married or have long term relationships. I believe this is a huge factor in itself and there are many others as well.

A big factor is also tied to the economy and finances of millennials. This generation has basically gone through 2 very bad economic time periods, 2008 crash and later COVID. In addition to this, they've also been young adults at a time where cost of housing has rapidly increased. To top it all off, many millennials often went to universities, many of which are insanely overpriced, that put them severely into debt. When people that are otherwise intelligent and functional are in a set of circumstances like this they generally delay marriage and children. The interesting thing though is you see low iq, low skill and often unemployed young adults pumping out children lol.

Factor all of these things in + the current dating climate of high female pickiness and this is the result.

Side note, your parents instinctively want their children to have children because that means their DNA is being based down. I've also experienced this to some degree as well. However, it's very difficult to find a woman that is actually wife/mother material that is actually single/available AND also into you as well. I feel bad for young men today, it's not at all their fault and there is nothing that can be done about it.

 

[SW15]

A big factor is also tied to the economy and finances of millennials. This generation has basically gone through 2 very bad economic time periods, 2008 crash and later COVID. In addition to this, they've also been young adults at a time where cost of housing has rapidly increased. To top it all off, many millennials often went to universities, many of which are insanely overpriced, that put them severely into debt. When people that are otherwise intelligent and functional are in a set of circumstances like this they generally delay marriage and children. The interesting thing though is you see low iq, low skill and often unemployed young adults pumping out children lol.

The older half of Millennials were more affected by the late 2000s/early 2010s than the younger half. The 1990s born Millennials missed the worst of the late 2000s/early 2010s economy because most of them were still in school and not participating in the economy. The 1980s born Millennials were super fuccked by both the late 2000s/early 2010s and the early 2020s.

Millennials have gotten fuccked by college debt too because more Millennials did higher education than either the Boomers or Gen X.

Well, dating apps and social media definitely made it worse. There is no doubt that both fertility and marriage rates are on the decline. Sexlessness is also rapidly increasing, you can see that trend beginning when social media first started becoming the norm in the late 2000s. However, I also feel there are social reasons outside of technology that are at play.

Agree with this.

Factor all of these things in + the current dating climate of high female pickiness and this is the result.

Side note, your parents instinctively want their children to have children because that means their DNA is being based down. I've also experienced this to some degree as well. However, it's very difficult to find a woman that is actually wife/mother material that is actually single/available AND also into you as well. I feel bad for young men today, it's not at all their fault and there is nothing that can be done about it.

There's truth here too. I haven't had parental pressure about not having kids but I've heard it happens.

Many millennials, particularly those that grew up in a middle class or better environment, are from households that are divorced. When I was growing up by the time I was in middle school it was the NORM for both parents to be divorced. I personally believe that when children see what their parents go through during a divorce it scars them in a way that is counter to that of wanting to get married or have long term relationships. I believe this is a huge factor in itself and there are many others as well.

This is applicable to my life as my parents divorced during my childhood and had an unhealthy relationship for many years prior to the divorce. It's not the biggest factor that affect my mating environment outcomes, but it's relevant.

 

[Bigpapa]

However, the shorter the women, the less tall you need to be.

Not really , the minimum threshold might be lower but still what you said in the first phrase applies

Short women are even more conscious about height , mainly because they do not want short children

 

[SW15]

Not really , the minimum threshold might be lower but still what you said in the first phrase applies

Short women are even more conscious about height , mainly because they do not want short children

A 5'2" woman getting with a 5'7" to 5'9" man is good enough for her. If a longer term relationship emerges, that could be problematic. If they have kids, they'd better hope it is only female children, because this matters less for female children. Male offspring of a 5'8" man and 5'2" woman are likely to have height issues. If both are White, that's likely to produce White male son who would be height disadvantaged. Multiple aspects of his life would be less than ideal. Depending on other social factors, his quality of life would range somewhere from less than ideal to downright bad. He'd only have a chance if he were geographically fixed in one area his life and had a decent social circle. Less than average height leads to a man having bad experiences in approaching strangers and on the swipe apps. Even plenty of average height men don't have a good time in these places.

 

[LTG71]

I've been positing about this for years but I'm noticing that these topics are becoming far more prevalent recently. I saw this a couple weeks back in my youtube feed, the fact that it made it's way to a mainstream news channel, CNN, says A LOT about deep the problem is.

Why the rate of single men in the US looking for dates has declined - YouTube

And I totally agree with your comment about women sending acceptable men to the reject pile. The vast majority of young men are not well into obese territory, drug addicts, homeless, etc. They are just regular young men that have lives, interests, goals, etc. I personally believe that social media in combination with dating apps is what created this problem. There are plenty of stats that show just how bad dating apps are for men overall. However, I think it goes well beyond this and I also believe that the pandemic essentially magnified this issue.

I use myself as an example a lot but I've seen a ton of crazy things that other men have gone through. I still remember this story from a few years back about a guy I knew that worked at a bank. His coworkers set up one of the tellers, a fat girl, on a date with someone they knew. Anyway, long story short she said she wasn't interested, they ask why and it's because he was overweight lol. I also remember about a year or so ago seeing this guy at the gym approaching this woman that was around his looks match. She scrunched up her nose and acted all awkward lol. This **** is common now and I just don't see it getting any better.

I remember about 4 years ago going to a speed dating event that was filled with a bunch of average looking women around my own age, so it's not like they were 18 and I was in my late 20s lol. Anyway, I got nothing but rejection from it lol. If a woman is single in her late 20s or early 30s and deems a man around her own age who is 6'4" and athletic/fit not good enough for even a first date there is something wrong with her. Granted, that's not the best place to meet women but you get my point, these women are single and obviously looking since they are going OUT of their way to go to such an event. I also get this feeling that they either have no idea what it is that they are looking for OR are not really looking for anything.

I personally believe that all of this is going to lead to a population collapse decades from now. I also believe that sex robots will legitimately become a thing in the not too distant future. It's rather unfortunate that young men are in this predicament that they really can't do anything about. Not all women are this ****ed up and warped, but enough of them are where it is having broader ramifications on the dating market as a whole.

This is the result of society marginalizing, devaluing and disrespecting men over decades. It went full throttle during the #metoo movement and then continued with all the “toxic masculinity“ rhetoric. Sprinkle on false rape allegations, “believe all women” ,countless divorce rapes and men losing their jobs and livelihood because a woman at work didn’t like him smiling at her, what do you expect? Women are like spoiled little children and we let them get away with murder.

They have never known what they want because they think with emotions and not with logic. Already spoiled with abundance and choice, now have an app where they can shop for d!ck. What a mess! Yes, in 20 years from now society will be completely fvcked up with a bunch of lonely people. This is a sh!t deal for men. The most powerful move is to walk away from the dumpster fire and live your best life. Not to completely avoid women all together but to vet and have higher standards, don’t tolerate low quality. Marriage and birth rates are already on the decline as we see men walking away from this mistreatment.

 

[SW15]

They have never known what they want because they think with emotions and not with logic. Already spoiled with abundance and choice, now have an app where they can shop for d!ck. What a mess! Yes, in 20 years from now society will be completely fvcked up with a bunch of lonely people. This is a sh!t deal for men. The most powerful move is to walk away from the dumpster fire and live your best life. Not to completely avoid women all together but to vet and have higher standards, don’t tolerate low quality. Marriage and birth rates are already on the decline as we see men walking away from this mistreatment.

There are levels of men walking away.

There's the common MGTOW movement, which is growing. Most MGTOW men are men that have already been rejected by women. Women have more abundance and choice now and are sending a large percentage of men to the reject bin. This trend is obvious when the mating outcomes of the Boomer generation are compared to the Millennial generation. A Boomer male (especially the first 2/3rds of that generation) could have a reasonably stable romantic relationship if he were average or slightly above average. A Millennial around the same level of quality as a Boomer 25-30 years earlier has a less stable romantic life than his Boomer equivalent. There are far more incel/borderline incel occurrences among Millennial males.

There are also men who aren't MGTOW/incel level rejects who are walking away from the conventional life path in romantic relationships. These are more socially skilled men and often men with better looks, though sometimes they excel with money/status more so than looks. In previous eras, these men would have settled down and had a family life. Some of them would have been like the fictional Don Draper and had mistresses on the side while being married and having a family. In more current times, higher value men aren't committing to marriage and/or family life, but instead are putting up big notch counts by using swipe apps or Instagram DMs. These higher level men have less of an incentive to settle down that higher level men of the mid to late 20th Century because it is easier to get women on swipe apps and Instagram than only using the real life techniques available to top tier men of mid to late 20th Century. Additionally, due to female empowerment and more females being self-sufficient due to workplace and educational advances, women more recently are less likely to tolerate infidelity from top tier men. They can divorce men and impact their livelihoods and top tier men realize that's too much of a risk to their top tier status, so it's better to stay unmarried and childless. Additionally, women can also have more sexual options just from being in the workplace and outside the home more, not to mention their additionally options for sex in the social media DMs or on swipe apps.

TLDR: There are no incentives for desirable men to have family life. There are no incentives for women to choose men outside the top men, since basic provider males and even basic looking males aren't needed as much anymore at the individual level for women (still needed at the collective level).

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

There are levels of men walking away.

There's the common MGTOW movement, which is growing. Most MGTOW men are men that have already been rejected by women. Women have more abundance and choice now and are sending a large percentage of men to the reject bin. This trend is obvious when the mating outcomes of the Boomer generation are compared to the Millennial generation. A Boomer male (especially the first 2/3rds of that generation) could have a reasonably stable romantic relationship if he were average or slightly above average. A Millennial around the same level of quality as a Boomer 25-30 years earlier has a less stable romantic life than his Boomer equivalent. There are far more incel/borderline incel occurrences among Millennial males.

There are also men who aren't MGTOW/incel level rejects who are walking away from the conventional life path in romantic relationships. These are more socially skilled men and often men with better looks, though sometimes they excel with money/status more so than looks. In previous eras, these men would have settled down and had a family life. Some of them would have been like the fictional Don Draper and had mistresses on the side while being married and having a family. In more current times, higher value men aren't committing to marriage and/or family life, but instead are putting up big notch counts by using swipe apps or Instagram DMs. These higher level men have less of an incentive to settle down that higher level men of the mid to late 20th Century because it is easier to get women on swipe apps and Instagram than only using the real life techniques available to top tier men of mid to late 20th Century. Additionally, due to female empowerment and more females being self-sufficient due to workplace and educational advances, women more recently are less likely to tolerate infidelity from top tier men. They can divorce men and impact their livelihoods and top tier men realize that's too much of a risk to their top tier status, so it's better to stay unmarried and childless. Additionally, women can also have more sexual options just from being in the workplace and outside the home more, not to mention their additionally options for sex in the social media DMs or on swipe apps.

TLDR: There are no incentives for desirable men to have family life. There are no incentives for women to choose men outside the top men, since basic provider males and even basic looking males aren't needed as much anymore at the individual level for women (still needed at the collective level).

Pretty accurate analysis, we also have to keep in mind that men decide based on logic more than social pressure or social shaming.

 

[Bigpapa]

A 5'2" woman getting with a 5'7" to 5'9" man is good enough for her. If a longer term relationship emerges, that could be problematic. If they have kids, they'd better hope it is only female children, because this matters less for female children. Male offspring of a 5'8" man and 5'2" woman are likely to have height issues. If both are White, that's likely to produce White male son who would be height disadvantaged. Multiple aspects of his life would be less than ideal. Depending on other social factors, his quality of life would range somewhere from less than ideal to downright bad. He'd only have a chance if he were geographically fixed in one area his life and had a decent social circle. Less than average height leads to a man having bad experiences in approaching strangers and on the swipe apps. Even plenty of average height men don't have a good time in these places.

You do not know if you will have a male or a female child , so all this thinking is irrelevant

Being shorter than average is a disadvantage , being less than 1.75 m is a disaster in most cases , unless ofc you compensate it through other things