The Worst Label Of Them All

[Falcon]

If there is one thing in the whole seduction/community that I wish wasn't around is the term ALPHA MALE.

Don't some of you think the term has been taken too far?

From what I remember, the term Alpha Male was used to describe the lead male wolf in a pack. Somehow it jumped to human beings. I have no idea how, it just did. Much like how evolution theory just jumped into seduction books (but that will require a whole new thread). It's ridiculous at times, but now you have a bunch of guys walking around thinking they own everything or something.

But about this whole Alpha Male term, is it even science anymore? I feel it has strayed too far from where it begun. For example:

1. From what I understand, there can be only one alpha male. How is this true if everyone is so convinced that they are 'alpha'. You have guys reciting it when they wake up. I mean, everyone can't be alpha at the same time right?

2. Now Alpha Males originated from studying wolf packs. Wolves are wild animals. Being in a wolf pack was a matter of life or death. Human groups are nothing like wolf packs these days. When you go to a club with your buddies, is it a matter of life or death? Wolves need the structure for survival. If there is no Alpha Male, the pack dies. If your Alpha Male of your group of friends go on vacation or is sick, does the issue of survival kick in? Nope. The whole wolf pack is there for survival. Nowadays, people can live on their own. I can sarge on my own. The issue of survival is not even there!

3. Another thing I remember reading about was if an Alpha Male is challenged the wolves would physically fight. The winner would be the Alpha Male. Do you physically fight if you can't get a girl? Do you physically fight to win a girl?

I am just taking examples from what Alpha Male originally came from. Sometimes I feel pop-science and the seduction community took it to far. It's great to study wolves and such, but to just mindlessly apply it to human lifestyle would be a mistake. Do we really live like wolves? Can wolves do what we do? Why should we strive to live like wolves? In my opinion, shouldn't the wolves be trying to imitate us?

But the worse of it, is the whole Alpha Male label can destroy your identitiy. No longer is it okay to be yourself. You have to be 'Alpha'! You have to walk a certain way, talk a certain way, etc. Then you have writers cashing in on the term. "The Secrets to Being Alpha Male" "How to Be Alpha" "10 things to do to show you're Alpha", the list goes on. Then you see screen names AlphaMale, ImAlpha, whatever etc.. Doesn't anyone see this as a little ridiculous? How come it isn't questioned?

So has it been taken to far? Maybe taken way out of context? I like to question everything.

I know people hate the labels of DJ and PUA on this forum, but while we are at it, let's attack the worst label of them all! The Alpha Male!

 

[Nighthawk]

But I am a wolf.

Alhpa males are present in plenty of species, including humans. The evidence, from academic and personal experience, is all there as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Mjazz]

I think what you say about trying to be alpha destroys your identity, the real alpha males are in prison

 

[Falcon]

But I am a wolf.

Alhpa males are present in plenty of species, including humans. The evidence, from academic and personal experience, is all there as far as I'm concerned.

That's where I feel it has been taken out of context. Human beings are completely different from other species. Extremely different I would say. In some species, the females dominate (ants, I'm pretty sure there are others)! Even if you think it is true, don't you think it has been taken too far?

 

[Nighthawk]

I think what you say about trying to be alpha destroys your identity, the real alpha males are in prison

Shouldn't an alpha be intelligent?

 

[Falcon]

Shouldn't an alpha be intelligent?

Wolves aren't that intelligent. It's usually the one that can fight the best is the Alpha. See the whole structure falls apart when you take it back to its roots.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

If you look at at alpha males in nature and non alpha males. You see that the only difference is that the alpha males are larger, more agressive, hostile and strong, where as the nonalpha males are not this. So this must mean these alpha male exclusive characteristics must be alpha male traits.

So if a human is to be alpha, he too will need to exhibit these alpha male traits. So the one guy who said the true alphas are in prison had it right.

Alpha male has nothing to do with being really smart or being really rich. According to natures examples here, (which is where this alpha male idea is origninating) its more about being strong, tough and agressive.

By the way, science is totally accurate, its just the seduction community is taking real science and distorting it to explain why their dating strategy will/should work. There is absolutely nothing scientific about anything this forum, the "gurus" or any other seduction communities have provided so far.

As far as Im concearned, they need to stop pretending their dating strategies are scientifically backed, and just admit its BS. Instead of saying "oh this is scientifically backed", they need to say "this works becuase it has worked for me". The later is the more exceptable explanation for a provided dating strategy.

 

[Aaron B]

Alpha male is a good concept as far as being aware of what those traits are and emulating them.

None of us are truly "The" alpha male, because there can only be one on the planet. Really, its all degrees of dominance. Some guys are naturally dominant and need to improve other areas to deal with women successfully (one of my best friends is very dominant, but he has anger issues that cause him problems with women).

As long as you can separate yourself from the large group of beta males then you just need to focus on improving yourself. Ending typical AFC behaviors like seeking her approval, supplication, not being a challenge, putting her on a pedestal, and being too available are what you need to focus on eliminating.

Fact is, even if we consider ourselves "alpha" we will encounter males who are "more alpha." Part of this is being able to deal with the more dominant males in a proper fashion without dropping ourselves on the scale. I have no problem deferring to other men when the situation calls for it, but you can sure bet I won't let a stranger punk me. I'll always stand up for myself and that's a big part of it. At the same time I will go to great lengths to avoid a fight but never at the cost of putting myself in a submissive position to another male.

You can never allow another man to physically intimidate you. That doesn't mean you pick fights, but you have to stand your ground. Remember, if you are physically attacked, you don't have to actually win the fight. You just have to protect yourself until it is over.

I'm naturally dominant and have leadership qualities, and part of that is deferring to other men when the situation calls for it (at work, for example. I am looked at for leadership but in certain situations a fellow co-worker has proven himself to be a more effective decision maker - because of my status he looks to me and I will delegate to him because its for the greater good and my ego can take it).

 

[Nighthawk]

Wolves aren't that intelligent. It's usually the one that can fight the best is the Alpha. See the whole structure falls apart when you take it back to its roots.

I meant human alpha males should surely possess the alpha quality of not ending up in prison.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Troops,

I LOVE a good analogy or metaphor. They often help explain things better by the word-pictures they paint in the mind of the student.

But on this site, and in this community, Alpha Male is a term that has been taken too far. Calling themselves "Alpha Males" I see as just a feeble attempt used by some men to bolster their fragile self-esteem.

Look around you HERE:

They're usually the ones who do the most bragging and "attempt" to do the most internet BULLYING. THEY are always "right", and will never admit to any weakness----even on an anonymous forum like this one. lol

Every MATURE man knows that confidence is often SITUATION specific. No one is "the SHYT" in all situations or all the time. So as "Alpha" as some of these guys try to act, if the right woman, crisis, or situation impacts their lives----most of them would fall like a house of cards.

Or WORSE---they'd probably just "go out" like a bad knee...like the "Poser" Bytch-Ass Punks that they REALLY are.

March on.

 

[DJF or John]

God of Getting Laid says,

"As far as Im concearned, they need to stop pretending their dating strategies are scientifically backed, and just admit its BS. Instead of saying "oh this is scientifically backed", they need to say "this works becuase it has worked for me". The later is the more exceptable explanation for a provided dating strategy."

Priceless analogy. I mean, what is a dating "theory" but just one man's own unique way of getting laid? It's like my "theory" or Pook's "theory" or if I wrote a book on business.

I really never "got" the whole Alpha Male thing. What I do is I really dont' hang with a bunch of males to begin with unless they are my close friends, because a lot of males just are jealous and when they see you are "succeeding" with women and life in general, their "I Must Be The Alpha Male" mindset kicks in and they feel the need to try and compete or try and bring me down to bring themselves up, which never works because I usually laugh them off.

But hey, there's another discussion on the forum right now about a PUA v.s. A DJ. And Alpha Male is just another one of those titles that we have in this seduction community. Overall, I don't think it's the "Title" or the "Position" that makes someone right, I think it's the person "holding" the title or the position. Because I'm C.E.O. of a major Corporation doesn't mean I'm intelligent and know how to run the company. And just because I hold the title of a "PUA" doesn't mean I'm a natural one.

So if a guy asked me, "John, what's this whole women thing boil down to?" I would tell the guy it boils down to you discovered whichever of these "strategies" best works for you, and best helps make you a stronger, more developed, WHOLE human being.

- John

 

[Falcon]

I remember a while ago when I used to try to be ‘Alpha’. Eventually I got sick of seeing the term everywhere on the internet. I saw it on forums, and even blogs! I thought fine, it’s sort of annoying, but what can you do? Then there was that one day that pushed me off the edge. That day was when I heard my friends talking about it! They were actually talking about alpha male stuff, in an actual conversation. I couldn’t believe it made its way to my friends now. Crazy. Then I see a trailer for a movie coming out named, you guessed it, ‘Alpha Dog’. Man I was so sick of that term, I felt like puking. Its like everywhere I go I have to hear someone self-proclaim themselves as alpha. So then I start thinking where all of this came from. The more I thought about it, the more it really didn’t make any sense. What really bugged me is how no one questioned it! They just accept what David D. (that’s who I learned it from) or someone else said and start trying to be Alpha from the get go.

Furthermore, I am now questioning if the whole Alpha Male mindset does more harm than good. Examples below.

1. Okay, the way it is thought is these ‘special’ males in society are Alpha. “They get all the women” says the seduction gurus. In order for you to get women, you have to start being more alpha. Some people may interpret it differently, but this is the gist of it. Now what I want to get at is, I thought the whole seduction community hated the scarcity mentality? Doesn’t the Alpha Male label have scarcity written all over it? For example, only a rare few can be it, and if you can’t be it, then you wont be successful with women. The result is you have a bunch of insecure guys desperately trying to be this alpha male. We all know scarcity mindset leads to insecurity. Isn’t this mindset detrimental? Are you not covering up nice guy insecurities with this new one?

2. The Alpha Male mindset tends to create this huge ego. I mean if you are the alpha dog you are the best right? I wrote on a topic not long ago stating that in order to grow, you need to have some humility. I doubt you can have any humility if you are as arrogant as these self-proclaimed ‘alpha males’ are. What I am trying to get at here is, it seems that this alpha male concept can hurt the growth of an individual. I mean, how can you learn anything if you think you are the sh!t and know everything?

So now I am also questioning if it can be more detrimental than good. I am sure some people may have benefited from it, but I know a lot more take it way too far.

So now you know a little of why I decided to start this thread. Hopefully, we will all learn a little more from the discussion and grow in the process.

And remember,

Question Everything.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Wolves aren't that intelligent. It's usually the one that can fight the best is the Alpha.

Actually, wolves are extremely intelligent, alpha males moreso. It's not the "book intelligence" we tend to think about, but things such as their perception, intuition, speed of thought, senses, etc.

Also, in human society, we have technologies that improve our fighting ability (swords, guns, nuclear missiles). Which means human leaders don't necessarily need to fight. Even Caesar wasn't that much of a combat fighter...

 

[Rastaman]

All animals (including wolves) and humans have the same basic concept of mating and leadership. It is the media that robbed men of their manhood. It should be OK to be an Alpha male and use the term Alpha. Yeah, some people will pretend to me to be Alpha to cover-up their insecurities, it's also OK to let these people enjoy their illusion.
I don't think we should go around giving other people choice of words base on our study of wolves, after all almost all words in English are derived from other words.

 

[mrRuckus]

Stop being so damn literal.

We just use alpha male to say be the man in charge and who controls the situation and be the best dude you can be... but no you gotta ruin it and turn it into some literal masturbation and say nuh uh we're not like a pack of wolves as if people saying alpha male really freakin intend it exactly like that.

 

[IamtheAlphamale]

I think what you say about trying to be alpha destroys your identity, the real alpha males are in prison

Just the fact that they are in prison makes them not an alpha male. An alpha male would decide upon things. For instance is it worth beating this guy down even though I know I could because it will ruin my future?! Decision. Those people are just "bad boys" maybe alphas compared to some chumps but they lack specific qualities which we strive for.

The term alpha male just defines one person as a leader basically. Your leader of the pack. I have never heard of a group of people from any country without a leader.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

I like to simplify it all by thinking of "alpha male" as just another way of saying "secure, confident male", instead of literally comparing humans to wolves. Clearly there can be more than one secure and confident male in the word.

A confident and secure male will get more women than an insecure wuss. I think we can all agree there.

 

[Falcon]

I know it seems a little ridiculous talking about wolves and such, but realize I was not the first one to do it. It was david d and other gurus who kept citing evolution and mating habits of other animals and applying it to human nature. That's how it got planted into my mind. Now, like some of you, I am beginning to question if it really makes sense. So if you hate me comparing it to wolves maybe you should get mad at the people who did it first?

Now see how many different views of Alpha Male there are? Some people think it's the rough guys in prison, some people think it's leaders like Ceaser, and some people think it's just secure and confident guys. I am not saying its wrong to think like this, I am questioning that maybe if we did away with the term 'Alpha Male' it would clear up a lot of things? What's the point of having it? It seems like the term is just there to pump up the fragile ego.

Adding to my criticism of the Alpha mindset...

Doesn't the alpha mindset seem to imply that there is a win/lose situation? shouldn't we strive for a win/win situation? When you dominate someone it is win/lose, when you cooperate and work together it is win/win. Just some food for thought.

 

[mrRuckus]

So if you hate me comparing it to wolves maybe you should get mad at the people who did it first?

There you are being fvcking literal again. They're just making a comparison. It's a perfectly valid comparison. They don't say it's exactly the same. We DO sort of set ourselves into the same sort of social structure as wolves but not exactly. Some people are leaders.. some are followers... some lead sometimes but not always etc... wolves are more packish than we.

Very few analogies are exact (goddamn the number of arguments i've seen where "nuh uh that analogy is flawed! this one is better!"...ad nauseum) They're just trying to pull out the major parallels and use imagery to get their point across. Alpha male = cool manly dude who controls his situation. That's the same sort of social structure SOME other animals have.

 

[mrRuckus]

When you dominate someone it is win/lose, when you cooperate and work together it is win/win. Just some food for thought.

I don't have time to make sure everyone is happy.