The Thoughts Of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

5string

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I am currently reading this and wanted to quote a passage for you guys to contemplate on what it means to be a man.

A man's true greatness lies in the conciousness of an honest purpose in life, founded on a just estimate of himself and everything else, on frequent self-examination, and a steady obedience to the rule which he knows to be right, without troubling himself about what others may think or say, or whether they do or do not do that which he thinks says and does.
 
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Scaramouche

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Dear 5String,
I think Tony (Tone to his mates) was playing with himself at the time....Some of you Guys take yourself way too seriously,finding nobility where the real motivation is ALWAYS self interest,whether it be in this Earth or the One to come....Still he built a great wall,North of Hadrians,the remains of which I have admired....Talking of Hadrian,his legacy is far more impressive.
 

5string

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Scaramouche said:
Dear 5String,
I think Tony (Tone to his mates) was playing with himself at the time....Some of you Guys take yourself way too seriously,finding nobility where the real motivation is ALWAYS self interest,whether it be in this Earth or the One to come....Still he built a great wall,North of Hadrians,the remains of which I have admired....Talking of Hadrian,his legacy is far more impressive.
Dear Scaramouche

Can't say I agree with all that you have said although I do believe nobility and humility are virtues to be admired. I am not a religious man by any means. My "religion" is knowing the difference between right and wrong, treating others with respect and assisting those who truly need a hand.

Remember, no man is better than another, only different.

Anyway, "Tony" does impress me as the man was "home schooled" in Rome. And rather than enjoying the pleasures his position as Emperor might provide, he chose a rather humble life and desired to provide for his subjects while pondering the purpose of life and it's meaning.

I'll read up on Hadrian.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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The first thing that makes me suspicious of anyone really knowing right from wrong is them telling me they know right from wrong.
 

5string

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Rollo Tomassi said:
The first thing that makes me suspicious of anyone really knowing right from wrong is them telling me they know right from wrong.
Really Rollo? Knowing the difference between right and wrong is one thing, doing what is right as opposed to wrong is another.
 

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Nice quote, 5string.
Kind of an anti-SoSuave motto.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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It's very easy to make decisions when your choices are right or wrong. It's much more difficult to make decisions when your choices are wrong or wrong, or right for one and right for another.

Knowing what to do with binary choices doesn't impress me.
 

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What is an "honest" purpose in life, and conversely, a "dishonest" purpose in life?
 

Poonani Maker

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Rollo Tomassi said:
It's very easy to make decisions when your choices are right or wrong. It's much more difficult to make decisions when your choices are wrong or wrong, or right for one and right for another.

Knowing what to do with binary choices doesn't impress me.
Right. I think that I, personally, am always making decisions when my choices are wrong or wrong, or right for one and right for another. If I was completely self-Less, then all my decisions would be binary, with no gray. I'd be choosing off of script i.e. the Bible. I'd not use my own (selfish) demonic brain for the complex decisions. I'd just quote Leave it to the Lord unquote. It's an either or. You either live by your wits which can be clouded by your biochemistry for that particular day, hour, or time in your life, or you make snap judgements based off of memorized "code" (of ethics) so to speak. I think that both can be utilized, but I'm too lazy to memorize code that could possibly cause me to make as bad a decision as my wit would. I think that code provides unity though among all of our different wits (with different bents or proclivities either arisen from genetics and/or environment) about us.

So clans, cults, people of the cloth, groups, teams, countries are deciding off of a collective wit or a collective code. When the collective wit starts developing a collective code for other collective wits, the loss of wit begins for all wits (even the wit that has developed the code for others loses their wits, because through successive generations, their OWN collective wit forgets why their wit was the way it was because they are always looking to the CODE for direction, which is merely "words" i.e. wordism, and not wit); therefore, it is best for wits to stick to their own, and fight it out with other wits for eternity, because deferring to a set of universal "principles" or "words" to live by will cause EVERYONE to lose their wits. You can't think anymore because the brain doesn't have to or is told not to by outside forces (not conducted by nature and nature, in the end, is ruler of us all in the physical world we live in - maybe on another planet we'd be lighter weight and live longer who knows?)

Most of my decisions are PURELY selfish in the end, even if, I am sacrificing for another or others. By sacrificing myself for others, I'm being selfish in my belief that when I die, I will be rewarded by God for "doing good" or the "right thing." I recognize that I am Not God, that there most likely is a God given the complexity and enormity of the universe. I almost consider myself an animal at the mercy of God's nature, always. We all die. I could have my head chopped off in a millisecond sourced from any manner of nature's forces that could arise at Any time here on Earth. We. do. not. know. when or where or how we will be snuffed out, but we do know that we will be snuffed out, so at least while I'm not snuffed out, I'm going to live as honestly as I can (though selfish, definitely, I can't help it, that's our nature, our biological makeup telling us how to survive financially, physically, mentally - we are directed by the flesh every day, our desires to fvck, to eat that $30 salmon diner, to sleep, to exercise to look better, to educate ourselves to look better, etc etc).

So the Main thing that makes you appreciate nature and physics, and right and wrong, respect for life, in the physical world is to always WORK (except on your days off) year-round (even if you hit the lotto and don't have to work, work), because idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you don't make your way, nature, or someone else, will make it for you.

So we are pittling and fuddy-duddying around on this dirt, some on the water, or in the air, every day of our lives, life has been all but disintegrated by periodic large meteorites before, and has grown back before. Those who do not respect nature, or do not recognize the force of nature, do not know right from wrong, because life is the ultimate right, and death is the ultimate wrong.
 

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Dear 5String,
Thanks for your civilised reply....I think I was unduly ascerbic the Day I penned my first response....Sure I agree with you Antoninus was indeed one of the Few "Good Caesors"....Hadrian was a Man truly worthy of my admiration...Might I be so bold as to recommend a very readable and historically correct Panorama of the him and the Empire he Governed..."Memoirs of Hadrian" by Marguerite Yourcenar...My edition is a cheap Penguin,there are lots of copies on Amazon for a Song.
 

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I don't know about how cool that quote is but I do know he sent a Roman envoy to China in 166AD. Emperor Han of the East Han Dynasty met with them and was dismayed that they brought tortoise shells and other garbage that they had picked up from SE Asia. They could have at least brought Spanish hookers! Cheap asses!
 

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Scaramouche said:
Dear 5String,
Thanks for your civilised reply....I think I was unduly ascerbic the Day I penned my first response....Sure I agree with you Antoninus was indeed one of the Few "Good Caesors"....Hadrian was a Man truly worthy of my admiration...Might I be so bold as to recommend a very readable and historically correct Panorama of the him and the Empire he Governed..."Memoirs of Hadrian" by Marguerite Yourcenar...My edition is a cheap Penguin,there are lots of copies on Amazon for a Song.
Dear Scaramouche

Thanks for the tip. I'll bet there is something I can download for free on my Kindle about Hadrian. I'll get to it in the near future and maybe PM you. Thanks again.
 

5string

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Rollo Tomassi said:
It's very easy to make decisions when your choices are right or wrong. It's much more difficult to make decisions when your choices are wrong or wrong, or right for one and right for another.

Knowing what to do with binary choices doesn't impress me.
Actually, I disagree with you. I actually think it is sometimes quite difficult to choose between right or wrong. Many things come into play. How about temptation for example? With women, drugs, alcohol, truth/lies, etc. And yes, some decisions are more right than wrong, even when both options are right or vice versa.

Nobody is trying to impress you.
 

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5string said:
I actually think it is sometimes quite difficult to choose between right or wrong. Many things come into play. How about temptation for example? With women, drugs, alcohol, truth/lies, etc. And yes, some decisions are more right than wrong, even when both options are right or vice versa.
I've got to agree with 5string here. Sometimes it can be very difficult to do the right thing, even when the choice is clear.
 

yuppaz

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5string said:
I am currently reading this and wanted to quote a passage for you guys to contemplate on what it means to be a man.

A man's true greatness lies in the conciousness of an honest purpose in life, founded on a just estimate of himself and everything else, on frequent self-examination, and a steady obedience to the rule which he knows to be right, without troubling himself about what others may think or say, or whether they do or do not do that which he thinks says and does.

I interpret this as:

Your greatness lies in doing what you can within your gifted talents, be steadfast about it and don't worry about what other people think, do or say in relationship to your purpose and the way you live. That's a beautiful sentiment and the only times in life where I have personally felt fulfilled are when I am living this way - total honesty and using my gifts to the fullest.

I don't think the question of whether right is right and wrong is wrong or the levels of it is the important message here. If you are a normal sane human being you can generally tell the difference between what's right and what's wrong.
 

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I've found that a lot of the men that I know personally who REFUSE to take STRONG stands in their lives often opt out of calling things Right or Wrong for entirely self-serving reasons---------as a way to justify their OWN duplicitous behavior.

Usually, their ONLY moments of HONEST reaction to injustices, whether they be small or great, come when THEY are the ones who find themselves on the "business end" of SOMEBODY ELSE'S morally ambiguous behavior.
 

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Just one thing, not every moral action is something we decide upon intentionally. A lot of time in a true crisis things happen at a speed beyond our ability to reflect on -- you just act on reflex, for better or worse.

Maybe it's not so relevant to the argument, but your subconscious will have its say, whether you like it or not. You could think about how you would like to act your entire life, and in seconds discover you're a completely different person than who you always believed you are.

Just throwing the thought out there.
 
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