The Struggle of Conversation

[Nocturnal]

After a long time of gradually improving my conversational skills, I thought, "Why was it so hard then, and so easy now?" I know that tons of shy people trying to move on want to know the secret behind this, so I will tell you.

When I was shyer, I could easily engage in conversation with friends. We had topics we would talk about and we could slowly build off them. Example: I'm a skateboarder. I meet a skater and we find out that we both skate.

Me: So what's your favorite place to skate at? Know any good spots?
Him: Behind Quiznos there's an awesome gap, you just have to watch out for the rocks in between.
Me: That sounds cool, then when your done you can grab a drink, cool off, and pick up girls *grin*.
Him: Haha, yeah, it's always good to get out of the sun when your drenched and dehydrated.
Me: Yeah, except I don't really like Quiznos. Did you hear about that new xxxx they're putting up over at xxxxx?

You find a common interest, and use it to build off into other ones.

However, lets say you meet a girl and the only thing you have in topic is school. This is a big one I'd say most people try, because they don't know what else to talk about.

So, example of many guys trying to talk to girls:

Guy: Hi, Im Guy. What's your name?
Girl: Hi I'm Girl. How are you today?
Guy: I'm good. How's xxx class going lately?
Girl: Alright, we had to take a test in there the other day and I did horrible.
Guy: Yeah that guy's test can kill. Do you know if we had homework?
Girl: No I don't think so.
Guy: *Gets stuck, throws in bits and pieces of things then announces his departure*
Girl: Ok bye

Obviously this isn't very fun and it's not getting you anywhere. People will spend a long time thinking "What am I going to say!!" Nothing comes. Why? It's all about the comfort zone. If you don't know anything about a girl, and you don't take RISKS of getting into bad topics (which usually don't turn out that way), the conversation will go dry. So what do you do?

Example:


Guy: Hi I'm Guy *smile*. I noticed you were over here by yourself and you looked like you could use some company.
Girl: *smile/blush* Hi Guy, I'm Girl.
Guy: I just couldn't pass such a pretty face *smile*.
Girl: Thanks *giggle*. <possibly tries to get conversation going due to interest in such a friendly/confident guy>
Guy: Tell me about yourself, where are you from.
Girl: Oh I've been here for 5 years, before that I was in Alabama. Nothing special.
Guy: Alabama, sounds interesting. Eat any crocodiles there?
Girl: *laugh* No, just the usual.
Guy: I have a pet crocodile.
Girl: Oh really?
Guy: No I just wanted to impress you *smile/laugh*
Girl: *makes comment*
Guy: But then again I'm an impressive guy don't you think?
Girl: Oh of course/****y Remark/etc

As you can see, in this example the conversation opened up as friendly and showing attraction, then gradually moved to playful activity between guy and girl. What does it take? In this example, the risk of pretty much announcing his attraction was what Guy uses to make the girl interested in the conversation and set up somewhere for it to go.

Look at the crocodile part, this is the kind of thing that helps. Being able to take something and go into a completely different realm with it will allow your conversational skills to develop very quickly.

Let's look at the major differences between the first converstation and the second:

The second was friendlier. The second jumped around a lot (not a bad thing). The first wasn't exciting at all. The first didn't allow for the girl to open up a good conversation (especially if she was shy).

So a few major ideas to keep in mind would be to:

Set the stage for playful humor. This allows you to make random comments like "I like sugarcanes and lemon drops!" or to jump in with a story etc.

Let her know you're attracted, if only subtly. This will make her more responsive and will allow you to joke around about you, her, or even you together in a sexual (not necessarily sex, but things like "you're hot") manner.

Jump from topic to topic. Don't burn one candle until it goes out. Burn one then light another from it. Then when you're ready you can blow them all out and leave her in the dark wondering who this wonderful guy is .

Questions/comments will be openly accepted and replied to.

 

[The Antichrist_Star]

And this guy wants to meet me... are you kidding me? Nocturnal, this is a fabulous post you have here. Heck... I may even try to use the crocodile thing myself. The important thing to remember guys is that there are tons of topics to talk about in life! Throw anything out there... I think you would be surprised as to what girls are willing to talk about. One again... nice post.

The Matrix: Reloaded

 

[Drow]

Very nice post!

I noticed that exact thing. Sometimes I'll see a girl I haven't seen in awhile and i'll ask how she's been and the usual questions and that is just boring.

Have a sense of humor. Take it where ever you want to. Keep it light. Who wants a serious, boring conversation?

"Set the stage for playful humor"

Start right off..! You can do this by teasing her about something.

Ex: This girl came up and talked to me and said, "Why is it always me that has to initiate the conversations!?"

So a week later I spot her and say the same thing to her playfully.
"So why is it ALWAYS ME that has initiate the conversations with you xxx? Do I intimidate you?"

Let her know you're attracted, if only subtly.

Definently.. and do it in a playful fun way.


I often do things like this, but I never really realized exactly what I was doing. Glad you put it into words. Awesome.

 

[Nocturnal]

51 views... come on . lets see some input.

bump PS thanks guys

 

[Ronny_Neumonic II]

i like it! i like it!

 

[sirmackalot2]

good post. will have to add it to my arsenal

 

[Pheonix:ScndrlReborn]

This is just sweet

-Formerly UltimateScoundrel

 

[jive]

Nice post, very helpful.

 

[CrazyAsianBiker]

haha right after reading this i asked a girl where she was from and she said alabama.

 

[bust.it]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
Guy: No I just wanted to impress you *smile/laugh*

I have trouble with this line. It seems so easy to tip the scale and have it come off too sincere, weak, hopeless and desperate. It also calls for a lull in the conversation, because you're waiting for her to reply.

It would seem strange to me if a girl said "i just wanted to impress you"... i'd be turned off.

 

[Nocturnal]

Re: Re: The Struggle of Conversation

Originally posted by bust.it
I have trouble with this line. It seems so easy to tip the scale and have it come off too sincere, weak, hopeless and desperate. It also calls for a lull in the conversation, because you're waiting for her to reply.

It would seem strange to me if a girl said "i just wanted to impress you"... i'd be turned off.

ok first of all it's not going to sound desperate. why?

-You were confident enough to approach her
-You were confident enough to make that comment
-It is a playful comment, not necessarily serious. It is a joke.
-You've put her in the position where she is the one that feels inferior (most of the time)

About the lull in the conversation, you want to give her opportunities to interject things. and in a situation like this, if she's interested, she's going to try. Its much easier for her to do it when you set her up like this, and the easiest response for her would be something like "oh i'm impressed ," which is good because she will convince herself that she really is impressed.

Originally posted by bust.it
It would seem strange to me if a girl said "i just wanted to impress you"... i'd be turned off.

-You're not a girl (i hope)
-It is a joke, you're taking it out of context and thus changing its underlying meaning.

 

[bust.it]

Re: Re: Re: The Struggle of Conversation

Originally posted by Nocturnal
-You were confident enough to make that comment

From my experience with other guys, it doesn't take much confidence at all to say "i did it to impress you". In fact, it seems like a lost opportunity when you could have come back with (off the top of my head)

Guy: I have a pet crocodile.
Girl: Oh really?

yeah *smile* ( so she knows that you're kidding ), but he doesn't like strangers.
Girl: oh, and am I a stranger?
well, want to change that...( followed by a close)


Also, it seems like a last resorce excuse for doing something... as if you had no alternate purpose other than to make yourself look good so that she'll like you. Isn't SHE the one who's supposed to impress YOU?

With
"I just couldn't pass such a pretty face" and
"No I just wanted to impress you" and
"But then again I'm an impressive guy don't you think?"

your impression (even with a suave tone) doesn't sound secure and confident. It makes it seem like you NEED her validation to confirm that a) what you said DID IN FACT impress her and b) that you ARE an impressive guy.

-You're not a girl (i hope)

Last I looked in my pants, nope.

 

[Nocturnal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Struggle of Conversation

Originally posted by bust.it
From my experience with other guys, it doesn't take much confidence at all to say "i did it to impress you". In fact, it seems like a lost opportunity when you could have come back with (off the top of my head)

It does when you're joking around about something sexual with a girl you just approached 15 seconds ago.

Originally posted by bust.it
Guy: I have a pet crocodile.
Girl: Oh really?

yeah *smile* ( so she knows that you're kidding ), but he doesn't like strangers.
Girl: oh, and am I a stranger?
well, want to change that...( followed by a close)

this is assuming she's going to be that responsive in the situation. you can't expect her to say "oh and i'm a stranger?" how do you know she's not going to just laugh? what i said could work even if she didnt respond. also, the point of the crocodile thing in the original post was just setting the stage for that kind of humor. in this case you're closing way too early.

Originally posted by bust.it
Also, it seems like a last resorce excuse for doing something... as if you had no alternate purpose other than to make yourself look good so that she'll like you. Isn't SHE the one who's supposed to impress YOU?

it's not a last minute resort to look good. its an unexpected response. thats what makes it funny.

she doesn't have to impress you. she already thinks you're impressed by her, thats why you approached her.

you're taking it too logically. first of all, by approaching her she's already going to know you're confident etc. just from this she will feel like shes at a lower rung on the ladder. you dont really have to impress her, and she knows that. she doesnt have to impress you because you've already shown interest by approaching her.

it's a mutual interaction, which is what a lot of people here lose site of. they look at it like a buisiness relationship, or a competition. just because you're not a desperate little crybaby doesn't mean you cant show affection and interact more.

Originally posted by bust.it
With
"I just couldn't pass such a pretty face" and
"No I just wanted to impress you" and
"But then again I'm an impressive guy don't you think?"

your impression (even with a suave tone) doesn't sound secure and confident. It makes it seem like you NEED her validation to confirm that a) what you said DID IN FACT impress her and b) that you ARE an impressive guy.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO SOUND SECURE AND CONFIDENT. It's humor. You've already proved confidence. You dont need to validate anything, you both know that.

You're taking this waaaay out of proportion. girls react and act on emotion. by saying "no i just wanted to impress you" in a joking manner, in that situation is NOT going to make her think "hes insecure" after you've approached her and made it a colorful, humorous converation.

think about it. i'm tired.

 

[Drow]

bust.it,

Your taking this conversation thing like it's a science. It is not rocket science. Don't try and analyze what TO and what NOT TO say..

Don't worry how you will appear.. your thinking in the wrong terms.

Work on your social skills, and work on interacting with people. Forget the details.

Remember there is no philosophy; there are no set rules.

 

[bust.it]

Nocturnal, Drow,

aite well when dealing with chicks say/use whatever floats your boat, guys. Personally, I would never use those lines but, hey, they probably work for some people.

Cali girls must be different from the ones you're picking up. o well

 

[Da Game]

Remember also... A lot of it is in the tone. What could be very AFC can also be very C/F if you put a sarcastic or joking tone to it so she can't tell if you're serious.

I'll give an example when I can think of one.

 

[Challenger]

Great Post Nocturnal !!
I have printed out this topic and added it to my personal "bible".


I do understand bust.it's objections, but I really think that the real attitude is more important than single technics and methods.

If you are confident (approaching her) and playfull (talking to her) there is a big chance you succeed and the woman want to see you again.

 

[Superman X]

Sweet post Nocturnal.

I have one question though. While I've been following the JM strategy of getting wide rapport by changing topics frequently and talking about different things (as opposed to deep rapport, where you just talk about relationships and sex), I don't actually know the reason why I do this, besdies that it makes conversations easier. I've haven't been out why Juggler and PDX think wide rapport is better than deep rapport. Would you happen to know?

-GF

 

[Eternal]

Due to the chance of this being deleted due to time, Matrix has requested me to bump this for it to stay in the High School bible. Thank you.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by Superman X
Sweet post Nocturnal.

I have one question though. While I've been following the JM strategy of getting wide rapport by changing topics frequently and talking about different things (as opposed to deep rapport, where you just talk about relationships and sex), I don't actually know the reason why I do this, besdies that it makes conversations easier. I've haven't been out why Juggler and PDX think wide rapport is better than deep rapport. Would you happen to know?

-GF

sorry it's been so long, i haven't seen this but now it's bumped.

think of something you really love to do. let's say you play basketball and have been playing it all your life. It should be really easy for you to carry on a long conversation about basketball, including different teams, techinques, everything. But then one day this girl comes along, and she's into riding horses. You talk about horses for a while, then you talk about basketball, but you make the conversation deeper and deeper. eventually you're telling her stuff she doesn't care about, or would never need to know or want to know. she plays along and lets you run the conversation, but that doesn't mean she's enjoying it as much. I bet you can relate to the internet. Most people use it. But if i said i needed to use the web through a cgi proxy that wasn't blocked by the school's software, would you know what I was talking about or enjoy it as much as saying something like "I found this website that has this hilarious kid doing _____." when the convo. is not deep, you can change it easier.

there are more reasons but I need to get going to school.