The story that got me here - bit long but bare with me..

[voguemaster]

The story revolves around a girl I've met online. At first it
started out as nothing really special, just a guy talking to
a girl through ICQ. That has been going for around a month or
so. There were no expectations from either side and we basically
created a great bond.
The real story begins when we decided to get together one time.
In order to make it as neutral as possible (since our conversations
were neutral, mostly) I suggested she bring her friends and we'll
meet at a certain club I go to sometimes (yes, BIG mistake).
So, everything was set and we met there. Now at first, in the first
few moments, there was nothing outright special. I knew she was
a pretty girl (even though she is short and not thin) and her eyes
were and still are, amazing. But still, I don't get the hots for
every girl out there, no matter how good/bad looking. For me it's
a matter of body language, facial expression, the look in her eyes etc..
Unfortunately, these things don't really show up at first and so
I wasn't attracted in the beginning.
The whole purpose of us getting together was so we could know each
other better and I blew it in that respect, I prefered spending
more time with my friends than with her (so she did the same).
Only after a while the cold hard truth hit me and I was trying to
get to know her better, dance with her etc. One other problem was
that one of her friends kinda found me likeable and started dancing
with me, and showed real interest.
Since I wasn't interested in her but in the original girl, it kept
being in my way. Eventually we did end up spending quality 1v1 time
but that was after she talked to one of my friends and got turned
on by him. Just a note: he wasn't that much attracted to her.

The friend of course checked with me to make sure he's not stepping
on my toes but basically only wanted to bed her. Two days after we
went out, I had a conversation with her explaining my disappointment
with everything that happened, that I was bummed because I was
interested and the girl wasn't (that was before I told her she was
that girl, this might also be a MAJOR mistake).
She said she was a bit upset with me because I decided to do other
things rather than get to know her better. She also didn't like the
fact that I only seemed to show interest after she danced with my
friends and talked to that friend of mine.

Anyway, at the point she said I wasn't her taste but I looked nice
and she DID want to go for it but I wasn't around, then she started
talking to my friend (also not her taste but still..).

A few days later we talked again and she asked how I was. I was still
a bit down and I told her it wasn't because of what happened at the
club. Then she said she didn't think it was because if she thought
that was the reason and that it bothered me that much, something would
have happened between us (go figure).

We got together that day, went for a ride, and also sat for drinks.
The whole thing has taken about 3 hours (way more than usual), but
I still got the "friends vibe" off her.

Now the interesting stuff: Although this whole time we still speaked
to each other, the next week we talked again and she wanted to go to
this special party that a certain site organized. The details aren't
important. Before we made plans I jokingly suggested a night strall
and apparently she thought I was serious, twice. Apparently she really
wanted to take it. Was a bit odd how I managed to ruin it and NOT go
eventually (just another ****up in that big chain ).

The next day we made plans to go to that party. The thing was that only
another girl we knew was supposed to come along but somehow other people
we know came and my plan for being with her 1v1 was kinda shot to pieces.
Needn'tless to say I was not happy about it.
It was all a very annoying situation. Also, I forgot to mention that
during all this time, my friend totally blew her off. The thing is,
around 4am or so I was ready to go home, and apparently all the others
as well. They all went but for some reason she wanted to stay extra,
so we stayed a few more songs. The moment they left, we started dancing
and couldn't be torn apart. She clinged to me in a way I didn't imagine
would be possible.
After a while we went to the car and just talked about continued the
hugging, rubs and all the other things. Slowly things got more intimate.
after an hour and a half or so, we kissed, a very long and intimate kiss
that basically had it all: tenderness, passion, whatever you can think of.

All in all we spent 2 hours there, instead of going home.
Naturally I was very optimistic afterwards, called her the next day and
we made plans for dinner the night after. The date went well although we
didn't do anything special, apparently her defenses were up again.
She did drink some at the party but hardly enough to lose judgement so
that wasn't it.
The next day we talked again, mostly about what's going on between us.
She has major trust issues with men and I think I've kinda pushed too
hard with what I said. She said she couldn't make up her mind for the
past 3 days but eventually she did say she didn't want me enough to
justify the risk of us both getting hurt and wanted us to stay in touch
but not in a romantic way.
She thought if we got together it would spell disasted and I assured her
it wouldn't. We also discussed the kiss. Her words were that she doesn't
kiss anyone like that and it certainly did a LOT to her.
No anount of words could tell her I was a different chapter than the guys
she knew in her past. Logically she knew that but it made little difference,
she didn't take the risk.

Afterwards I said a few things that kinda annoyed her but it wasn't something
tragic. We still like each other a lot but that wasn't the end of the story.

I had to put a quit to the whole thing, I wasn't going to be just friends with
her, it was too painful. No girl has ever made a fire burn in me like this one,
not for a good 5 years or so. The funny thing is, she is looking for something,
who knows what. She dates quite a bit, she even wanted (and to the best of
my knowledge did) a girl and experience that.

We did talk about what happened once or twice again but after a while she asked
if I talked to my friend about them going out together. I don't know what
went down with them at the end of the day but it wasn't a pleasant conversation.
We are still on good terms but I can't help the feeling that was another big
mistake in general (as I am not the jealous type).

Afterwards I kept my distance from her, she I guess was kinda insulted that I
didn't want to see or talk to her again. My infatuation passed eventually and we
continued talking, although much less.

Another two weeks passed by and we chatted again. She said she missed me and all,
and it was a nice conversation. At the end I suggested we do something fun
sometime. A few days later we went out to a small place for dinner and then went
to a bar. All in all, like 5 hours worth of a date
It was really fun and she did tease me a few times (and I teased her).

All in all, it seemed she started to think we might be friends but I didn't want
that, not yet. Even so I made it clear afterwards in a subtle way, she wanted
to go yet to another party together, the other people would be there too.
This time I said no, didn't want to get into that again, and I wasn't generally
excited about going anyway.

Now the situation is we talk every couple of days in ICQ. I invited her at some
point to come over to my place but she doesn't seem like she's too eager to come
over. I'm not trying to avoid her but I'm also aware of my strong attraction for
her and it is a killer. So she continues going out with guys and doing other stuff,
and I go on with my life just the same.

I feel a tremendous loss, a tragedy of poor mistakes. Not only do I not know what
to do next, my mind has come to the conclusion that nothing will happen. Yet,
my heart sorta speak still wants her. It's a very annoying situation and I'm not
sure how to proceed.

Yes, she wasn't in to me from the first moment, but I bet she was attracted otherwise
no such kiss could have come to being. Yet, it wasn't enough and I knew it all along.
Thing is, her teasing continues. It's sometimes subtle and sometimes down right
direct. I'm not really sure this girl is sane .

Any ideas and thoughts will be welcomed. I tend to believe that it's a dead thing.
Well, I've known for quite a while. But all in all, she is trying her best to keep
me in her life and I'm not sure WHY. I mean, it can't be that I'm that special to
her, after all she hasn't made any sign that I'm high on her priority list, so what's
the story on that ?
I'm not her rug, I'm not her pushover guy, I don't buy her things/dinner/whatever,
so what's the deal here ?? Is it just that we connected so much so quickly ? How can
that happend and her NOT want to try and date me ???

Frustrated.

 

[voguemaster]

no takers ??? :-/

any1 ?

 

[RazzleDazzle]

Jesus help me that was long!! I can understand telling me some of your story for background purposes but you have to start shortening that stuff.

On to your questions: answer, she is a woman. I go by a rule. Heck consider the golden rule: "women are flakey at best!" Now i'm not a fan of message chatting. It's too easy to come off wrong and you don't get any body movements, or voice tones to go by. THose are huge in finding out a girls mood etc. Sounds to me like this girl has big trust issues. She wants you around either as another pet (even though you say your not her pet you still give her attention) or she doesn't feel like she can trust someone yet, or she is on the rag every other day or or or or.

Face the fact that you got attracted to this girl after you didn't find her attractive. That in itself doesn't make any sense. You have to tell her that you want to date, not be friends. Straight up tell her that if she can only find herself being friends then you don't want anything to do with that. That's all you can do.

Another thing is you've wasted a lot of time on this girl already, try not to waste anymore.

 

[( . )( . )]

Oh god, you sound like 15 year old girl, whats with all this emotion, feelings, whinings, dribbling.

you can have all the deep connections(shudders) in the world with this chick but unless you bone her it counts for nought, zero.

forget the 5 hour dates etc, show her your a man whos time is precious, be sexual(read some tips here or elsewhere) pm me if you want to be pointed in the right direction.

who knows whats going on in her mind, and who cares .
focus on you and why you think you need her to date you.

 

[davelmn2003]

I read your post, but I also skipped, because it's long (which is ok to me).

I think you're definitely enchanted by her, especially her kiss. I just went through that recently. Long passionate kisses that drove me wild, making me wanting for more. Sometimes I feel like the sex roles have reversed--I feel emotionally attached to a woman after some physical contact while to her, it seems, it is just regular business!

I'd say, continue talking, flirting to her, but start looking elsewhere, just like what she is doing. She won't appreciate your loyalty to her. It is tough, but save your face for another day!

 

[( . )( . )]

Originally posted by davelmn2003
Sometimes I feel like the sex roles have reversed

and this ladies & gentlemen is the heart of the matter

 

[TesuqueRed]

You registered all of 6 weeks ago, yes? Maybe you lurked longer than that (as most of us...)

You've read the bible in that time?

This is a standard question you'll get. Annoying, sure, but it will tell most people here whether you're willing to put in the time and self-study to develop a web or network of basic information on this stuff. Much of what they say won't make sense unless they know you have a semblance of having that basic network of info (understanding comes in time) under your belt.

Look at the top of the screen and you'll see a link for it. You probably have begun to check out Doc Love, Double Your Dating, a few newsletters, right?

As for this particular situation---

btw, I really love these kinds of posts and never get tired of reading them--the 'what finally broke me and made me come here' types...

...your post is different since most people post when it is in 20/20 hindsight and old news. Your situation is still fresh and live.

Now to kill it:

Cut your losses now, you may have some chance, but not much. If you haven't pounded your head against the wall till you're stupid and ready for another way, go back and pound some more until your frontal lobe is tenderized just right.

Some of the things I saw as mistakes (since I made 'em myself and I'm sure you're aware of these, I think..)

--she was looking for you to signal special interest for her--just a signal, nothing overt and clumsy---and you didn't. To save face she has to back off and go for someone else or be extra-hesitant with you and force you to double up your "prove it" burden next time;

--she went for a friend of yours over you--you're 2nd string material from here on out, don't even bother waiting around for clean-up duty. Women, btw, know this intuitively. If you go into a work place and hit on a girl, every other girl there will know about it and will be forever closed off to you since they don't want to be known to all their co-workers as the second choice--even if they want you, they have to say "no" to you or risk getting verbally savaged behind their backs by everyone they work with. Any "2nd choice" girl who goes for you usually is either/both young or clueless enough not to know what the social subtext is.

(uh, that is, they are not aware that the "social subtext" is otherwise known as "the competive and savage female game of social standing and placement"...and how deadly it is played.)

--she was ready for you to take charge and take her home or do her in the car the night you first kissed. You didn't. She thinks you're a "nice guy" (aka, a pansy, a soft boy--certainly not a man who could handle her...) Your error was being too hesitant or considerate and sensitive for too long, not being decisive and take charge (and comfortable doing so) when required.

--she likes the attention, you just don't get her wet anymore. But she likes the attention and reflexively will do what it takes to keep you around.

--you're useful (and will be chucked out the window to the curb the minute you stop being useful) because you go out and you have some attractive friends.

Hit the bible. Hit the boards. Soak up everything.

 

[Jay26]

Wow, that was long.

Okay, here's why you stuffed up:

You didn't act like a man.

Plain and simple. You acted like a pansy, goody-two-shoes nice guy to afraid to be a man.

This chick needs a MAN by the sounds of it, doubly so as she's flakey.

 

[voguemaster]

Ok some feedback

First, thanks to all who survived that long post (sorry hehe).
Now let's get down to business:

Jay26: absolutely right, I felt it all along..

TesuqueRed: yup, I have registered ages ago. I did read the bible
and I read the site regularly, it's just a shame that I didn't find
this site in time to save this one (or rather, do it RIGHT to begin
with). All the articles, doc love's, david deangelo's newsletter, all
of them are great interesting things. I've changed considerably,
I feel it and now I have to say I've got 3 girls dying to do horrible
things to me.
I never had any trouble attracting women at clubs, I look fine and
I dance really good. It's just that my conversational skills were...
amiss

To the matter: yes Tesuque, you're right in all your observations.
All of this could have been played so differently to a different end,
but I guess some good came out of it - my search to get better
led me here among other things heh..


I donno about the rest of you but I rarely want a girl this bad (5
f***ing years damnit) so this was quite a surprise to me. Heck I
thought I could never feel this way again. For me it's not much bout
looks as it is about body language (eyes, facial expressions etc..)
so it was quite a surprise.

And yes, intimate kisses like that are much better for a guy like
me than sex. Could never get an orgasm with a condom on


So for the time being, I'm concentrating efforts elsewhere and
doing nothing special with her. It is hard tho, I bet you know that too

thanks again.
VM