The sex contract

[DJDamage]

Does anybody know much about the sex contract theory?

I took this off the net which sort of explain what it is.

"Concealed Estrus: A Conjectural Explanation
One difference between humans and other primates is that human females do not show external signs of their fertile period. A variety of explanations for this have been proposed. The purpose of this note is to suggest an explanation which, so far as I am aware, has not appeared in the literature.

Consider a primitive group of humans in which reproduction is primarily by short term mating. Males induce females to bear and rear their children by spot payments, exchanging food for sexual access. For expository simplicity, assume each non-pregnant female is fertile one day in thirty and copulation with a fertile female always results in conception.

There is some equilibrium price for sexual access; suppose it corresponds to a month's food. This raises a problem. Food is not storable for very long, money does not exist. How is a male to offer a female more than one or two day's food for sexual access?

One solution is some form of long term contract. The male feeds the female for a month, at the end of which she copulates with him. While this is a possible solution, it depends on mechanisms to prevent cheating on social rules sufficient to enforce the contract--to keep the female from accepting food for twenty-nine days and then refusing copulation, thus keeping her reproductive options free for a second payment from another male.

Concealed ovulation provides an alternative solution that does not depend on such mechanisms. Now the female can trade a one in thirty probability of conception for one day's food. More generally, concealed ovulation makes it possible for the female to sell sexual access in smaller units, hence makes possible a higher price in a situation where the price is constrained by the availability of suitable forms in which to pay it."

 

[Wyldfire]

Yes women show external signs...

A woman is fertile for two days between 10 and 15 days after she starts her period. She gets moody a day or two before her period starts. So, when a woman is cranky and miserable, she'll be fertile exactly two weeks from her PMS. Women's hormones also change during ovulation and her interest in sex rises dramatically, hence her behavior changes. Most women will go out of her way to be more attractive while ovulating...and she will be more interested in any pursuers at that time as well. The signs are there, they just aren't overt.

 

[TonyTheTigerOI]

Youre an idiot, wyld. Women do not show signs of heat because humans are bipedal, and the use of energy to display fertility was counterproductive (i cannot remember the specific reasons why). That is why people used 'clans' and later 'relationships' - you need to be constantly ****ing youre partner for youre best chance to reproduce.

 

[Wyldfire]

So tell me...when was the last time you ovulated? Seeing as I have 25 years of experience ovulating I think it's safe to say that I know a bit more about whether or not there are distinct changes in a woman during ovulation than you do.

And for physical signs of ovulation...a rise in temperature and a great increase in cervical mucous production. The ONLY reason it's not visible by sight in human women as it is in primates is because we wear freaking clothes. If we didn't wear clothes it would be a bit easier to tell when a woman is ovulating.

 

[TonyTheTigerOI]

Are you trying to tell me that you are fertile while ovulating?

A "raise" in temperature, a "change" in mood - those are relitive terms that require comparison. If youre partner was not around you for an entire cycle none of these "clues" would mean anything.

What if you had a bad day? What if you worked out?

There is no mistaking that a dog is in heat. But there is no way for a man to walk up to a woman he does no know and tell if she is at her most fertile. So why dont you reread the original post, get your facts straight, and quit arguing with a 17 year old who is far more versed on the subject of anatomy and physiology.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by TonyTheTigerOI
So why dont you reread the original post, get your facts straight, and quit arguing with a 17 year old who is far more versed on the subject of anatomy and physiology.

Yes, women are fertile when they ovulate. Someone so "versed" on anatomy would KNOW that. And sorry...I've BEEN a fertile woman for longer than a 17 year old has been alive. IF people didn't wear clothes then men would be able to pick up on when a woman is fertile. There IS a change in the woman's body when she is fertile. You just don't see it because of the clothes.

 

[TonyTheTigerOI]

AWE FVCK! I meant to type "menstrating" instead of ovulating in my post above. I meant to detail how PMS is not an indicator of fertility but used the wrong damn word. Flame on!

But youre still wrong. Especially if you cite menstration as proof that women show when they are fertile. The fact that women undergo physical changes during their period simply bolsters the point of the original poster - in two weeks, she'll be fertile again. The man would have to STAY WITH HER for two weeks, and then **** her for a week while shes receptive... that is a short term relationship.

A goat, for instance, can walk up to a female in heat, realize shes in heat, and **** her.

A man cannot walk up to a woman and realzie shes in heat. Look it up in any new anthropology book - women dont telegraph their fertility due to such processes' energy demands.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by TonyTheTigerOI
AWE FVCK! I meant to type "menstrating" instead of ovulating in my post above. I meant to detail how PMS is not an indicator of fertility but used the wrong damn word. Flame on!

But youre still wrong. Especially if you cite menstration as proof that women show when they are fertile. The fact that women undergo physical changes during their period simply bolsters the point of the original poster - in two weeks, she'll be fertile again. The man would have to STAY WITH HER for two weeks, and then **** her for a week while shes receptive... that is a short term relationship.

A goat, for instance, can walk up to a female in heat, realize shes in heat, and **** her.

A man cannot walk up to a woman and realzie shes in heat. Look it up in any new anthropology book - women dont telegraph their fertility due to such processes' energy demands.

Ovulation is when a woman is fertile. When a woman ovulates, her cervix produces a clear mucous in fairly large quantities...so YES, there is a visual sign of ovulation but you don't see it because women wear clothes to cover herself. Ever hear of a very pregnant woman talking about a mucous plug that breaks away right before going into labor? It's the same thing, essentially. The plug breaks free during labor. During ovulation the cervix creates all that extra mucous and it does come out as a clear white and odorless discharge during ovulation unless the egg is fertilized. If the egg gets fertilized, the mucous is not released from the cervix, but instead stays attached to form a protective barrier around the cervix. So, fellas, if you are having sex and you notice a clear "egg-white type" of discharge you might want to stop because the girl is ovulating.

 

[TonyTheTigerOI]

Can I smell this discharge from 100 yards away? From TEN yards away? During the discharge... do you sing a specific song or do you change colors? This is not telegraphing your fertility.

 

[SageOFAllenAge]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
So tell me...when was the last time you ovulated?

!Classic!

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by TonyTheTigerOI
Can I smell this discharge from 100 yards away? From TEN yards away? During the discharge... do you sing a specific song or do you change colors? This is not telegraphing your fertility.

Well sugarbritches...if women pi$$ed outside, ran around naked and men spent their time sniffing the ground...he could probably find her by tracking her...just like apes do. And animals can't smell a female from 100 or 10 yards away...they smell the scent the female leaves after passing through an area and the male tracks it.

As for the "song" and color changes...in animals, it's typically the MALES who sing and are all colorful. Some ovulating women have been known to hit the karaoke bar and belt out their rendition of "Man! I Feel Like A Woman!" while wearing busy, colorful eyeshadow.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

You guys are funny, and are fighting about semantics. You're both right as well. IF we weren't wearing clothes, it might be noticeable. BUT, it's easier to notice in animals BECAUSE we're able to guage PRE, and POST behavior as it relates to animals.


A guy can generally only judge his wife/gf b/c he's around her so much. Guys sauntering into a bar won't be able to tell if it's the booze, the pheromones, the cologne, the new workout, or she's just a slutty nymph.


And for all intents and purposes, clothes have been the 'main costume' since such science was available on ovulation, and even before that, so again, grey area. Sure a naked gf in the shower, or someone I've lived with for months, it'd be obvious. But for a new gf or women in general, damn near impossible, which has led to the speculation that roughly 10% of the children on this planet are sired by non-paternal fathers.




A-Unit

 

[LuvMyArmyMan]

haha Wyldfire, you own!

And Tony, you have to realize that we are not animals. We do not live in the wild. Mating "rituals" are different for us. We exert different pheromones and hormones.

You also have to realize, that you have a penis and you do not have a uterus, and no matter how much you read on the female body, YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT FULLY, because you are not a female! there are things us women know about our bodies that you dont know about and vice-versa. There are things i will never understand about the male body.

But Wyldfire is right. There are ways to tell if a woman is ovulating. And, it is possible to get pregnant when a woman is mensturating, so therefore, she would still be ovulating when she's mensturating. It's rare, but it happens. And don't be too sure, too, that a man doesn't know when his wife is ovulating. When he lives with her for a long enough time, and knows her body almost as good as she knows her own, then he'll know. But you, my friend, are only 17 and have not co-haibtated with a woman for a long amount of time, so you would not be able to know those things.

Also, when men and women are at their sexual peaks (for men its their mid-20s, and for women its their early 30s), its a lot more apparent. But thats another topic.

 

[penkitten]

hahaha this was the funniest post i have seen all day.

you know wyld, when we were teenagers , we couldnt really tell when we were about to menstrate a few days before or when we were ovulating either, however as we got older, we could definately see the signs.
i think that alot of guys misinterpret that since a 17 yr old couldnt tell that none of us can ever tell , when that just isnt so .

 

[DJDamage]

Back to the topic at hand. As a result of "concealed ovulation" meaning that although females are aware of it and men are not, does that make a woman more/less likely to cheat then men?

Men purpose is to spread their seeds to as many females as possible in order to ensure he would pass his genes for generations to come.

Females on the other hand have "concealed ovulation" which means a guy cannot tell if she has recentlly gotten pregnant or is menstrating or ovulating. I often heard that when women cheat it will be done pretty early after having sex with another guy because fertalization can occur in about 2-3 days and by having sex with someone else, the sperms compete for dominance and would often kill one another for a chance to concieve the egg.

 

[LuvMyArmyMan]

Originally posted by DJDamage
I often heard that when women cheat it will be done pretty early after having sex with another guy because fertalization can occur in about 2-3 days and by having sex with someone else, the sperms compete for dominance and would often kill one another for a chance to concieve the egg.

Thats like Wild Safari in the uterus, yo. I'd like to see some sperm compete for an egg, that would be some quality entertainment!

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by DJDamage
Back to the topic at hand. As a result of "concealed ovulation" meaning that although females are aware of it and men are not, does that make a woman more/less likely to cheat then men?

Men purpose is to spread their seeds to as many females as possible in order to ensure he would pass his genes for generations to come.

Females on the other hand have "concealed ovulation" which means a guy cannot tell if she has recentlly gotten pregnant or is menstrating or ovulating. I often heard that when women cheat it will be done pretty early after having sex with another guy because fertalization can occur in about 2-3 days and by having sex with someone else, the sperms compete for dominance and would often kill one another for a chance to concieve the egg.

It's very possible that more women cheat when ovulating than when they aren't. I mean, we do often hear about guys thinking they were the father, only to find out after a DNA test that they weren't. But I would also say that if a woman wouldn't cheat all the time it's unlikely she'd also cheat while ovulating. She most definitely WILL be more horny, though.

 

[Phoenix_of_the_ashes]

Originally posted by DJDamage
Back to the topic at hand. As a result of "concealed ovulation" meaning that although females are aware of it and men are not, does that make a woman more/less likely to cheat then men?

Men purpose is to spread their seeds to as many females as possible in order to ensure he would pass his genes for generations to come.

Females on the other hand have "concealed ovulation" which means a guy cannot tell if she has recentlly gotten pregnant or is menstrating or ovulating. I often heard that when women cheat it will be done pretty early after having sex with another guy because fertalization can occur in about 2-3 days and by having sex with someone else, the sperms compete for dominance and would often kill one another for a chance to concieve the egg.

There is no way that sperm can kill each other. Sperm basicly have to active functions, forward propellsion and secretion of an enzyme which is stored in the acrosom at the tip of the head, there are no "anti-spermazoid" weapons on board, sorry.

 

[DJDamage]

There is no way that sperm can kill each other. Sperm basicly have to active functions, forward propellsion and secretion of an enzyme which is stored in the acrosom at the tip of the head, there are no "anti-spermazoid" weapons on board, sorry.

You better read this: http://www.nlu.edu/~palmer/SpermWars.htm

Sperm Wars
"As was noted in the previous section, although a dominant chimpanzee may try to monopolize time with a female in estrous, most of the competition in this species is carried out at the level of the sperm. The reproductive tract inside a female chimpanzee becomes the battleground for a sperm war that takes place over the course of several days. Only one sperm among all of the billions within her vaginal tract and uterus can win the prize of fertilizing the egg. In fact, only a very small percentage of sperm, possibly as little as 1%, are even capable of fertilization; the rest of the sperm have an entirely different function. This other 99% of sperm consists of what are called blockers, or kamikaze sperm. Their function is to prevent the sperm of other males from reaching the egg. There appear to be at least two types of kamikaze sperm (Baker, 1996). Type A sperm block the passage of sperm that enter the female after they do. Type B sperm actually attack sperm that have been delivered prior to themselves. This sperm competition in chimpanzees has necessitated the evolution of testicles large enough to produce adequate amounts of sperm. This is why the testicles of chimpanzees are much larger than those of men.

The testicles of gorillas are relatively tiny compared to those of chimpanzees. This is because of the sexual monopoly that is obtained by a single silverback male gorilla over his harem of females. In this type of mating system sperm competition is almost non-existent. Human testicle size is somewhat proportionally larger than that of the gorilla. Nevertheless, the general similarity suggests that early hominid mating systems were of a polygynous nature similar to that of the gorilla, where you have a single sexually active male (Hrdy, 1988). Conversely, humans display a greatly reduced sexual dimorphism for body size as compared to the gorilla, suggesting that humans trended toward a greater degree of monogamy in the latter stages of our evolution. Because this shift toward monogamy occurred within the context of a larger social group, evolved behavior and physiology aimed at combating infidelity is part of our legacy as modern humans.

Baker (1996) discovered evidence that human male sexual psychology has evolved to respond to the prospect that his mate has been inseminated by another man during his absence. He found that the volume of sperm a man ejaculates while having sex with his partner is unrelated to how long it has been since he last had an ejaculation; the important variable is the length of time that has passed since he last had sex with his wife. The volume of sperm may be as much as three times that of normal if the man has been separated from his wife for a long period of time. If the men were in proximity of their wives during a similar period and were sexually abstinent, their subsequent ejaculate did not show the same rise in volume. Baker & Bellis (1993, 1995) also found that female orgasm plays a role in sperm competition. When a woman has an orgasm the uterus starts to contract rhythmically, causing sperm to be drawn into the cervix; a kind of vacuuming effect. If a woman has had intercourse with several men within a short period of time, the sperm of the man associated with her orgasm has a much higher probability of fertilizing her ovum than that of men whose copulation did not result in orgasm. When we couple this finding with Thornhill’s data, showing that women have more orgasms with symmetrical men than with less symmetrical men, and with the findings of Gangestad and Thornhill (1998), showing that women during the time of their ovulation show a preference for the scent from symmetrical men, we can see a connection between sperm competition and female mate choice.

Both sperm competition and female mate choice have been evoked to explain the unique anatomical distinction of the human species. Although among our closest living primate relatives, chimpanzees have the largest testicles, humans have the largest penis in terms of length and thickness (see Figure 5.4). Diamond (1992) provides the following anatomical data: In the gorilla the length of the erect penis measures 1 ¼ inches, in the orangutan it averages 1 ½ inches, in the chimpanzee it averages 3 inches, and in man it averages 5 inches in length. Advocates of the sperm competition theory argue that a longer penis provides sperm delivery closer to the cervix and gives sperm a head start in their competition with rivals. Advocates of the female choice theory would argue that ancestral hominid females, at least in part, selected males who could provide more vaginal and ****oral stimulation. In all probability, there is some interaction between both of these processes such that a thicker penis provides more ****oral stimulation and, hence, increases the likelihood of an orgasm that would facilitate delivery of sperm into the cervix. Post coital uterine examinations of women show that sperm retention is positively correlated with the women’s self-reported sexual satisfaction (Graham-Rowe, 1998). Phylogenetic comparisons also suggest that the breasts of human females have evolved as a result of sexual selection pressures"