The restaurant bill syndrome

[smooth_as_silk]

First date, you are in a restaurant and the waitress is bringing the bill: 28$.
Your date is holding you a 20$ bill and asking if it is enough (while you are paying by credit card).
What would you do:
-take her 20$ bill (meaning your date is paying for more than what she is supposed to)
-tell her that 28/2 is not 20 "please check if you have smaller bills..."
-say that you will take care of the bill this time...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

And you are taking a woman that you barely know on a first date to dinner because????

 

[babooya]

I'm old fashioned - you invite her for dinner, you pay. BUT, you make sure she returns the favour, whether than be she buys drinks after, or something else Worst case, everything goes well, and you tell her to treat you to dinner next time, have her pick the place. I like to do this as it sees if:

a - they are interested to initiate something
b - they will actually call YOU! A big plus in my books

Now if they don't act on this is could be for various reasons, so give them a week - if you hear nothing, try again. She'll let you know if she's interested for date 2.

 

[smooth_as_silk]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
And you are taking a woman that you barely know on a first date to dinner because????

Because that is what I usually do when I go out of work... I have to eat and therefore go to dinner. It can't be more trivial than this...

 

[smooth_as_silk]

Originally posted by babooya
Worst case, everything goes well, and you tell her to treat you to dinner next time, have her pick the place. I like to do this as it sees if:

a - they are interested to initiate something
b - they will actually call YOU! A big plus in my books

Now if they don't act on this is could be for various reasons, so give them a week - if you hear nothing, try again. She'll let you know if she's interested for date 2.

I suggest you never expect any of this... A woman will seldom initiate anything especially after 1/2 dates.

My question was more a poll than asking for particular advice.

The thing with paying the bill : when you tell her that next time is on her, you can straight away detect through her reaction and body language how high is her interest level
If she is interested, she will be more than happy that you are suggesting another encounter
If she is not interested, either she will insist on paying her share, or you can detect signs (from subtle to obvious) that this is annoying her
Of course, I am taking as an assumption that you screened carefully beforehand the woman you are taking to dinner and therefore you are not with a mercenary...

 

[babooya]

Of course, but there is only so much screening you can do.

I'm a big fan of the hipster dining areas in big cities. Nothing too fancy but something that can be reciprocated by the lady another time. $30 / person incl. drinks and dessert is perfect.

Now regarding the tangent here of not expecting the lady to call, I put a spin on one and told her after she asked me to call her, I said no you call me! Well, after date #1, so I guess she won't call, do you now see this as wussy for me to pony up and call her? I think it really doesn't matter but others may think differently...

 

[smooth_as_silk]

I said no you call me! Well, after date #1, so I guess she won't call, do you now see this as wussy for me to pony up and call her? I think it really doesn't matter but others may think differently... [/B]

It is too unnatural, your goal is not to force anyone to call you...
you have enough power to decide and you make the calling whenever you want it
If she doesn't reciprocate (rejects the date without another proposal or flakes), you next...

One lost, a hundred found...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by smooth_as_silk
Because that is what I usually do when I go out of work... I have to eat and therefore go to dinner. It can't be more trivial than this...

If it's that trivial, why don't you just pay for everything and keep it simple. It's not as if women won't jump at a free meal. Hell, most of them will take your offer even if they have no interest in you.

 

[smooth_as_silk]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
If it's that trivial, why don't you just pay for everything and keep it simple. It's not as if women won't jump at a free meal. Hell, most of them will take your offer even if they have no interest in you.

Please read carefully, I asked "what would you do" ... which also motivates an explanation
We are not talking about free meals vs paid meals here or choosing to take someone to a coffee shop just for the sake of making it a "cheap date"...

 

[babooya]

Again I'll re-iterate what my point of all this topic is about - *fairness*.

Yes it is nice to pay for the lady. But if she never *OFFERS* to pay for the dinner, or something later on, then my friend, you have a lady who will now depend on your $. I don't want to be somebody's sugar daddy, so keep things fair.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by smooth_as_silk
Please read carefully, I asked "what would you do" ... which also motivates an explanation
We are not talking about free meals vs paid meals here or choosing to take someone to a coffee shop just for the sake of making it a "cheap date"...

In fairness and keeping things equal, that only works when there is an established relationship between the two people. This thread is about first dates and establishing rapport. In common standards, this is when the guy pays for the attention of the woman during the time that they are together. I'm not saying that it's right, it's just the societal norm.

So when I first meet a woman or when I'm qualifying her I definitely keep it simple. Coffee and that's it. If I determine that I would like to start establishing something with her I set the expectations before the date. It's nothing extravagant, just something to keep things balanced since we've established that we at least have some form of rapport.

For example, I met a woman earlier in the week and after talking on the phone she invites me to a jazz concert. I respectfully countered with just a coffee date so that we could get to know one another.

The coffee date went well and she asked if we could do get together again. I agreed and she offered the concert again. I told her that I'd take care of the tickets and she could take care of dinner. She felt fine with that since concert was at a nice dinner club. I got the tickets and she paid for dinner and drinks. We had a great time and I offered to pick up dinner the next time we go to a concert.

I felt a little bad (just a little but not for long) because dinner was at least twice as much as the tickets plus I had a few martinis. But hey, she was offering them to me! I love it when women qualify themselves.

 

[carlspackler]

What I always do on the first date is excuse myself, try to catch the waiter or waitress and hand them my credit/debit card. I tell them to have the receipt all ready for me to sign by the end of the meal and that's that.

Works like a charm.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

If you asked the woman for the date and she offers to pay with the $20, its obvious she isn't a golddigger. A golddigger or professional dater would have slid the bill toward you and assumed that you are the man, and that you will pay.

In this situation, I would laugh and tell the woman that you're a man, a gentleman, and make money enough to pay for this. If she DOES insist, tell her she can save her money when she TAKES YOU out next time (good to already assume a next date), or she can get dessert and drinks at Cheesecake Factory next door.

What you are trying to determine is if the woman will reciprocate. If you tell a woman that the date is "DUTCH", she's going to think you're cheap and that'll kill all chances of a second date.

If she gives some sense of reciprocity, maybe getting the tip, or if you paid for dinner and she gets the movie...then this is more likely an indication she isn't a gold digger.

Common now..I'm sure enough of us fellas have dated enough women to get a sense for a gold digger/pro dater and a genuine lady.

 

[NewMan]

It's a simple formula here - for me anyway.

I ask a girl out I pay. Very, very simple.

Now - I choose the place - so I know upfront what I'm spending.

Now depending on how she is - that depends on whether I ask for a 2nd or subsequent dates.

If she doesn't offer to pay - or doesn't initiate a thank you of any kind - or suggest she pick up drinks - I'm outtie - no 2nd dates.

An offer to pay is all I am looking for (or an offer to get drinks - buy next time).

If a girl shows a willingness to pay, then I will pick up the tab more often than not.

To me - a woman's LTR potential - can be determined by her ability (or not) to pay for dates.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I don't know. The best times that I've had out on a date with a woman is when we both contributed to the fun. It wasn't a 50/50 thing per se, just that one of us would want to do something so whichever one would take care of it. If we decided to go to a movie, one of us would pick up the tickets and the other would buy the snacks. One of us would pay for dinner and the other would pick up the drinks at the bar or club. It was a partnership type of thing where neither one of us asked the other to pick up the tab on something, we just did it, together.