The reason for your divorce

[hithard]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, but I'm interested in where guys think things went wrong.
Maybe some background on the ex (parents divorced, raised by single parent, etc).
Also was it prior to finding these forums.

 

[Tenacity]

Screening......what can I say. Yes you CAN screen, and should. But people change. Their expectations, attitudes change.

The "good girl" you marry may not be the same woman 15 years later.

If I had advice to any young men, it would be
" Don't even consider getting married until you are 30. Establish a career and only accept a woman who ALSO has one. A woman that makes equal money, has equal spending/savings habits, similar goals, and values. Get a prenuptial agreement, and let it be known before you ever ask her, that if you got married, it would only be with one. If she balks at a pre-nup, walk. She is there for the wrong reasons."

Those of you who have never been through a divorce - don't want to be trust me.

Protect your heart, protect your assets.

^^^^^^^ This right here. All of that is gospel. It was taken from the other thread and I wanted to post this over here to respond.

hithard you mentioned that not only can one screen but they can also polish the woman's behavior. You also mentioned having found "this forum" as a way to assist with that polishing. In a nutshell, you are saying that if a guy just finds the right technique, or the right tactic, or make the right amount of money, or walk a certain way, or talk a certain way, or have a certain size dyck, or manage shyt tests a certain way, or pick from this pile of women over here v.s. over there, etc, etc.....then he can strategically and masterfully CREATE a good Marriage as one would a good Business.

I believe that is totally incorrect. It comes down to if you really believe you can "seduce" a woman or not, I honestly DO NOT believe you can, just like I don't think you can "sell" anybody anything.

People come to you with their own desires, own needs, own personalities, own wishes, own goals, own ambitions, own demons, etc. All you can do at any moment in time is just SUPPLY the market with the DEMAND it's asking for. The key though is a lot of people DEMAND something (or desire something) without even knowing what it is yet. Steve Jobs was excellent at tapping into this with the creation of the Apple Products.

When it comes to women, THIS MARKET of women are liberated. That means they aren't demanding Patriarchy as that would eliminate their liberation. What they want are the Patriarchal benefits but to operate still in a liberated state. What does this mean? It means they want the benefits on the table of Marriage in terms of:

- Being a Princess for a day or week
- A Free ATM
- A Work Slave
- Financial Security
- Maybe some dyck, that's until she's tired of it
- Someone to entertain her and keep her company

But she DOES NOT want the lifetime responsibility to such person, which means, the moment she's not "feeling it" anymore she can walk with a lottery ticket. She could go from HOT to COLD in minutes.

To think that you can out master this is foolish in my opinion. The only way to truly defeat this situation is to eliminate a woman's liberation, that means, go back to when once they married you, YOU were the catalyst to their actual survival. On top of that, eliminate women's rights to work, vote and get an education, make them go BACK to the kitchen only.

Only THEN do you get true lifetime loyalty. Otherwise, all you have is a dating situation with the Government tied to it, making it the most expensive "break up" of your life.

 

[Desdinova]

Oh fvck, where do I even start?

Back in 2004, Sosuave wasn't nearly as anti-marriage as it is now. The manosphere wasn't in existence to point out what a lousy deal marriage was. There were a few naysayers on the board at the time, but most of the guys here were either neutral or supportive of the idea of marriage.

I had a crazy belief that I NEEDED to get married before the age of 30. It was seriously a goal of mine. I ended up with a woman I wasn't even entirely attracted to, but figured she'd be a good companion since we got along so well.

Her red flags:
- Ate a lot of crap food
- Told me she was good at saving money, but when put to the test, she couldn't do it
- Divorced parents
- Mom spoiled the 5hit out of her
- Never held down a job for more than a few months

SHE was the one who proposed to me. I figured I'd just bite the bullet and eat my losses if it didn't work out. I'm currently still chewing...

She was a good actor. Almost the minute after we got married and moved into a house, she became a different person. She was never home and always had something better to do. I was pretty much alone for the duration of my 6 year marriage. But when she was around, I was still the Don Juan that I needed to be. She was afraid of pissing me off.

There came a turning point where I gave up on the marriage and found myself a suitable toy to fvck around with. It felt great to have a bit of affection and someone to take interest in me again. It lasted for one month until her fiancee found out and I had to end the affair. But at that point, I knew I was done with the marriage.

My wife had taken me out to eat one night and gave me an ultimatum. She DEMANDED that I give her more affection and she told me that, as a wife, she needed to be treated better. The thing that went through my mind was "If you want to be treated like a wife, then you should ACT more like a wife." However, I was way beyond wanting to repair the marriage, so I just agreed that I would give her more affection. I didn't.

From that point on, whenever she wanted something, I just let her have it as long as it didn't fvck up my financial situation. I believe this was the point where her attraction switch flipped off and she cheated on me with her best friend's husband.

The major failure of the marriage was due to a lack of effort from her end. However, I think the problems really started back when I met her. I'm not sure if she ever really wanted to be with me, but to compete against and win over all the other women who were interested in me at the time. I believe all she wanted was to be the winner of the grand prize, and that's all. That would explain why her personality drastically and suddenly changed after the honeymoon was over.

 

[sodbuster]

I was married in the early 90's. The main problem was her THINKING she could CHANGE what I wanted and who I was. When I said I wanted 2 or 3 kids, she had plans on using me as a sperm donor for ONE, and she hoped it was a boy... so SHE would have a boy and a girl. (yeah, married a single mommie}. When it was time to have the second, I told her "it can be with you or someone else, your call" in marriage counseling> We had the second boy, but it was the start of the end....

It ended when she couldn't figure out the things I would compromise on {for the lack of importance to me}, and the things I wouldn't ..... she never cheated that I know of, but she was a modern woman who wouldn't LISTEN.

Red flags 1) divorced, 2) the girls in the family DIDN'T like DAD or respect him, because 3) they were feminists, 4) she was a straight A student and couldn't believe anyone was smarter than she was {um, yeah, I'm a Dentist... so maybe I am}

 

[hithard]

^^^^^^^ This right here. All of that is gospel. It was taken from the other thread and I wanted to post this over here to respond.
Ten that is basically part of the screening I'm talking about

hithard you mentioned that not only can one screen but they can also polish the woman's behavior. You also mentioned having found "this forum" as a way to assist with that polishing. In a nutshell, you are saying that if a guy just finds the right technique, or the right tactic, or make the right amount of money, or walk a certain way, or talk a certain way, or have a certain size dyck, or manage shyt tests a certain way, or pick from this pile of women over here v.s. over there, etc, etc.....then he can strategically and masterfully CREATE a good Marriage as one would a good Business.

No its developing the right attitudes which encompasses technique(not parlor tricks, tactics to find the starting point. And its all about picking one group of women over another to raise probability. At no point is it about money, **** whatever so don't go putting that $hit up and attributing it to me. You are so far off base with what I think I'm speechless

I believe that is totally incorrect. It comes down to if you really believe you can "seduce" a woman or not, I honestly DO NOT believe you can, just like I don't think you can "sell" anybody anything.
Your limitations once again

People come to you with their own desires, own needs, own personalities, own wishes, own goals, own ambitions, own demons, etc. All you can do at any moment in time is just SUPPLY the market with the DEMAND it's asking for. The key though is a lot of people DEMAND something (or desire something) without even knowing what it is yet. Steve Jobs was excellent at tapping into this with the creation of the Apple Products.

When it comes to women, THIS MARKET of women are liberated. That means they aren't demanding Patriarchy as that would eliminate their liberation. What they want are the Patriarchal benefits but to operate still in a liberated state. What does this mean? It means they want the benefits on the table of Marriage in terms of:

- Being a Princess for a day or week
- A Free ATM
- A Work Slave
- Financial Security
- Maybe some dyck, that's until she's tired of it
- Someone to entertain her and keep her company

But she DOES NOT want the lifetime responsibility to such person, which means, the moment she's not "feeling it" anymore she can walk with a lottery ticket. She could go from HOT to COLD in minutes.

To think that you can out master this is foolish in my opinion. The only way to truly defeat this situation is to eliminate a woman's liberation, that means, go back to when once they married you, YOU were the catalyst to their actual survival. On top of that, eliminate women's rights to work, vote and get an education, make them go BACK to the kitchen only.
So Slavery is the answer?
You can be a dominant force in the relationship

Only THEN do you get true lifetime loyalty. Otherwise, all you have is a dating situation with the Government tied to it, making it the most expensive "break up" of your life.

I don't know where to start. But I don't want your thinking to become rigid.
First off this whole winning the war with MGTOW is bs. MGTOW- those guys stand back, complain and don't take an active part. Meanwhile an endless line of clueless betas fill in the gaps and feminism keeps moving forward. Women are not the enemy, limiting ideologies are. The Guys out there engaging, training and changing womens opinions so the next guy that comes along gets a better deal are the ones changing the situation. You get that through development not saying it can't be done. Millions of others are already doing it for fcuks sake

Secondly, don't tell me you can't influence someone that has a solid base. I have consistently done it.
You know why a lot of women change in relationships to the negative. Because betas have been enforcing negative traits over and over.
When I am in a long term relationship I foster the qualities that I find attracted me to her in the first place. That might mean doing charity work, hard work, learning something, there is a hundred things as long as we are engaging positively in the activity together and switching up routine. The reward for her feeling good about herself while my aim is to anchor stronger feelings to me.
This is just one small part to give you an idea.

Another point- If you want to get married why the fcuk would you then basically ignore your wife with intervals of buying her $hit and think its going to work out. No you simply locked down because of fear of being alone. Then on top you enforce all the negativein her; Being married = Loneliness, when I feel bad he should buy me things, If we argue we engage at some level.
Thats on you. The worse thing is the next guy in line cops even more ****.

And don't go throwing back in my face simply part of what I follow. It would take pages to go through everything so I stick to the basics and point in a direction. You want to see how deep this stuff gets, go read Rollos blog.

SO to simplify:
Get your $hit sorted first. Man I have to say this forum is full of guys who think they are advanced but are barely scratching the basics. In fact the basics are getting fcuked up. Many guys here are angry with the world. Problem is the world doesn't care. Building from strong foundations can take time.

Screening
This is way more then what most guys think it is here.
Above the basics I'm also looking for attitudes in certain situations
Friends Family and support networks.
Past history.
Their outlook on life.
Just each one of these have a hundred different subcategories.
This is the whole point of dating, interactions, social groups.

Keeping engaged
work, eat, sleep ain't going to cut it.

There are more I'm getting sick of typing and have other stuff to expand on.

Ten, marriage for guys is a bit like sex. There are guys that are good at it. Those that suck at it. Those that don't know what the hell is going on. Those that only want it for one night. And those that secretly dislike their partner and want to fulfill their own needs Then there are those that understand it on a deeper level and enjoy it on a different level to most.

You can be anyone of those you want. But don't be the guy that sucks at it telling the guys that understand it how it is.
Are there a lot of marriages $hitty yes, and they are part of the problem. But for Gods sake gain a deeper understanding of how it works on a successful level rather then just taking a one sided position on it being the ultimate suck position. Guys come here because they blew up. And you can either complain about it or develop and see how things work. The problem is most guys learn a little and get stuck in the new reality after red pilling and try to navigate by crawling around shouting instead of learning how to walk.

Ten I'm going to say it again your thinking has locked up, you will get bitter and it will affect your life for the worse.
I'm not asking you to agree with a position. But keep your thoughts and development fluid and for you that means a thorough understanding of the things you are against.
Your life has locked up for a reason and the frustration of it has got you grasping for answers, no matter what they are. Just be careful what you choose to hold onto.

 

[MOTU]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, but I'm interested in where guys think things went wrong.
Maybe some background on the ex (parents divorced, raised by single parent, etc).
Also was it prior to finding these forums.

In my last divorce, I can tell you exactly what I did wrong...
- what's mine is yours: I let her manage MY money.
- I got fat.
- I didn't maintain frame - I let her run the household (because that was easier for me).
- I told her too much. I talked to her like one of my male friends. I was too honest. It caused her to lose respect.
- I didn't set expectations on what I wanted from her in the relationship. So she gave what she wanted.
- I involved her too much in the raising of MY kids. I should have let her give input from time to time but take no real responsibility.

So these are the things that I did wrong. I won't take the space to talk about the things that she did wrong, because she did plenty.

 

[hithard]

Guys this thread will be important for others to see the similarities between divorce behavior. And as it is with everything- it follows a fairly close pattern from one to the other. So thanks for posting.

There were a few married guys on here Slickster, Rollo, 5Strings and others that might be able to shed some thoughts if they are still around.

 

[atlantadawg]

Reasons for me are increasing issues with mental illness that she refused to acknowledge or seek help for, increased alcohol use to the point where it quit being 'Hey, she's fun and cool and doesn't mind knocking back a few glasses of wine,' and more like, 'You puked all over the patio last night, didn't even bother to clean it, or the 3 empty wine bottles, up, and it's now 1 pm and you're drinking again?' level. That level is neither fun nor cool, I assure you.
So, crazy, drunk, and lying. Lots of lying in my case as well.

To chime in on some of what others have said: While I don't see another marriage in my cards, training/coaching and all that good stuff aside, I think these MGTOW types are pretty much a bunch of scared little faggots.

 

[Tenacity]

hithard,

I get your point man, as I stated in the prior response, you are approaching the situation similar to building a business. Most businesses are going to fail for bad management, so you bring that same mentality to dealing with women, where if you just make sure you "do the right things" you will maintain an efficient relationship or marriage. I just fundamentally disagree with this notion.

I believe that women date men today for utility, meaning they list out what they are going to get v.s. what they are going to have to give, which I'm OK with. The issue with this is that the relationship is NOT based on survival, which means that the loyalty factor is in question at all times.

To give you an example of this, I will provide another business analogy. It's like being a customer in an Industry that's a Monopoly or Oligopoly v.s. one that's an Perfect Competition. The Monopoly or Oligopoly customer will be more loyal because they HAVE to, there's only one company or a very few companies that provides the service, so you can predict a long term (or forever) relationship because in order to SURVIVE you have to work with said company. These are your Utility companies for example like here in Michigan we have DTE Energy and Consumers Energy. Where as in a Perfect Competition, there's hundreds or thousands of companies that provide the service and to expect LIFETIME loyalty from your customer is sort of insane in that market.

The dating market resembles a Perfect Competition today. Women are liberated and can produce their own survival (financial resources), as a result men are nothing but utility and entertainment, and if the woman gets bored she can EASILY move on to another guy.

There's NOTHING you are going to be able to do in terms of seduction, NLP programming, a.ss kissing, being more of a man, holding the frame, or whatever that is going to change this reality. As a result of this, Marriage is a bad deal today and you ought to choose alternative forms of long term relationship structures.

I actually like this market more than the prior one, because the cost of living is so high that it's impossible for a man to support a woman anymore and women need to be able to support themselves. So understanding that we are in a NEW MARKET, we need to address this new market with NEW LTR solutions. Marriage is outdated, the laws of Marriage (alimony) are outdated, and new alternatives need to be considered.

 

[Tenacity]

atlantadawg,

While I don't see another marriage in my cards, training/coaching and all that good stuff aside, I think these MGTOW types are pretty much a bunch of scared little faggots.

I'm starting to think you might be a troll, because for someone going through a divorce right now personally, that is a testiment to the fact that marriages fail. Yet, on the other hand, you are saying that men who don't want to get married for the risk of it failing are scared and gay? That makes absolutely no sense.

I consider myself an MGTOW. I have a gf who lives with me, we bought a house together. She wants to get married and I say no.

Perhaps we have a different definition of MGTOW, but seeing your divorce thread I don't see how you can call someone cowardly given the financial "extraction" you are about to endure.

Danger I agree, with MGTOW you have the different levels.

- Level 1 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here in this new market of women but still choose to make kids, get married, etc.

- Level 2 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here and choose to reject long term legal structures like getting married and making kids, but you still date and have short term relations. (I'M AT THIS LEVEL)

- Level 3 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here and as a result you opt out of not just long term relationships but also dating and short term relationships. You might be doing ONS and Escorts only.

- Level 4 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here, you reject doing anything with women at all other than on a professional level, and you also live a Minimalist Lifestyle to avoid having to pay taxes on your labor.


I'm at Level 2 and this is where I will be until I die. Women still offer me benefits in terms of Sex and Companionship, as well as occassional "Quality" benefits like maybe cooking, cleaning, etc. for me. I can get all of these in a dating, friends with benefits and short term relationship as I have been getting, so I'm comfortable with this going forward.

I don't think that the Level 2 and Level 3 guys are that far apart, I'm actually a Level 2 with a side of Level 3 as I incorporate ONS and Escorts as well.

I don't see how a guy can be Level 1, knowing what the hell he knows, but a lot of guys like hithard are seemingly LEVEL 1 MGTOWs as they know the situation going on out here, but still believe they can "strategically manage" their ways around it. I think that's just flawed thinking, but to each their own.

I don't see how a guy can be Level 4, damn dude don't you have goals and ambitions in life? I try to be as Minimalist as possible but I only get one life and I want to make as much money as possible, live the good life, and then die to see whatever is waiting for me on the other side.

 

[expos]

What went wrong in my marriage of 2 years and 11 months....

Me:
- Worked too much. I'd leave at 8am and come home at 7pm and sometimes later depending the project.
- Worked out too much and got really thin through distance running.
- Didn't make enough money working in higher education. We were "house poor."
- Let her abuse me emotionally and I rarely fought back. When I did stand up to her, it got ugly because I couldn't stay calm enough.
- Didn't date her long enough prior to marriage. 10 months of dating then we were engaged. Really dumb.
- Spoiled her when she didn't do anything to deserve it.
- Cried in front of her a few times (I had some family issues, and lost someone important to me)
- Stopped caring about her after she cut off sex.

Her
- Hid her Bi-Polar Depression and BPD tendencies from me. Need we say more?
- Was on tons of anti-depression and mood stability drugs.
- too consumed with material things, status, and money.
- too obsessed with marriage and weddings but was not capable of handling a committed relationship.
- Not interested in my hobbies and not supportive of anything going in my life.
- Genuinely unhappy, ***** to the core, hateful, jealous, and selfish.
- Got fat.
- Cut off sex completely, but still wanted a baby (?).
- Possibly cheated on me.


There is a lot of good advice on this thread and this board. Marriage is not for some people. It's takes a lot of sacrifice and patience and some are better off alone and free of commitment. It always surprises me when the most selfish of people tie the knot.

A woman has so many choices and finding one that WANTS to be with you is difficult. They are financially secure enough, get tons of praise for doing very little, and even the ugliest of women have men ready to dump tons of time, energy, and money into them. It's a win-win situation.

I do think of marriage as a great thing if the right people are united. A strong family foundation, with parents who genuinely love each other, is obviously a great environment for a child to grow up in.

 

[hithard]

Hithard,

Your entire argument is based upon two premises....

• That if you work at it, you can have a successful marriage.
• That you want a marriage.

Just as in the last thread, the same questions apply in this thread.

Why do you want a marriage?

1. What is the motivation for you?
2. Parental expectations?
3. Moral compass?

What does marriage give you that you cannot attain in an LTR without adding on the commensurate risk? And if you "worked at it" and removed the risk, what was your reward? A lot of work for a state certificate of marriage?

Again, the benefits are invisible to me, even if you account for perfection in removing risk and assume you have to put no work into it at all.

Sorry I need to clarify something before I launch. I'm not up to date on US laws but in Australia a 2 year relationship of living together is viewed pretty much the same as marriage in the eyes of the law(you still lose your stuff). So LTRs and marriage to me are similar principles in my eyes. I don't support marriage or ever wanted it as LTR was basically the same thing. We are also less religious over here.

Gotta say though I disagree with a lot of the crying about women that goes on in this forum now. MGTOW seems like a weak choice for guys trying to shield themselves. Next time I'm on here everyone will be telling me homosexuality is all the rage.

 

[Tenacity]

Sorry I need to clarify something before I launch. I'm not up to date on US laws but in Australia a 2 year relationship of living together is viewed pretty much the same as marriage in the eyes of the law(you still lose your stuff). So LTRs and marriage to me are similar principles in my eyes. I don't support marriage or ever wanted it as LTR was basically the same thing. We are also less religious over here.

Gotta say though I disagree with a lot of the crying about women that goes on in this forum now. MGTOW seems like a weak choice for guys trying to shield themselves. Next time I'm on here everyone will be telling me homosexuality is all the rage.

We have Common Law Marriages in I think 16 or 17 states, which is where you will be married if you have been with each other for a certain period of time and display yourself to the public as being married even though you never actually got married. Not sure how they even regulate this, because I know the "in" thing to do now on Facebook is to call your boyfriend or girlfriend your "hubby" or "wifey" so can that be used to constitute a Common Law Marriage?

hithard why do you bash MGTOW as a shield for "the weak"?

MGTOW (in my opinion) aren't a group of guys that are afraid of commitment, or afraid to settle down, or afraid of WHATEVER. We are a group of guys that are doing Risk Management. The risks are there, the risks are real, and you are advising us to continue to PROCEED in spite of those risks, for REWARDS that we already have attained without participating in those risks.

Explain to me how that makes any sense? Like Danger just said, what is the reward that a Man obtains from getting married that he can't obtain from not getting married? If you make an argument that it's about the CHILDREN having a two parent home, I would say you have a point. But going with that, what analysis are you using to back up the notion that just because you are married that the home will be a "happy" one? What if the marriage is a disaster and both parties are miserable? The kids will know they are miserable, they can sense those things. And who is to say that just because you get married and make the kids, that you will STAY married until they graduate HS and move out?

I mean why do you guys make these assumptions DESPITE the overwhelming data that's in opposition to your theory (or should I say mentality) about Marriage being this Utopia, so much of a Utopia that guys who decide to not participate in it are only doing so because they are pvssy? I mean this is so insane lol.

 

[Zarky]

MGTOW (in my opinion) aren't a group of guys that are afraid of commitment, or afraid to settle down, or afraid of WHATEVER. We are a group of guys that are doing Risk Management.

That's fine and I believe you. However, my question has always been, if MGTOW guys have really "gone their own way," are busy with their own lives, and women don't even cross their minds, why do they still talk endlessly about them?

I went over to the MGTOW.com forums, expecting a discussion group of guys talking about everything other than women, since they've theoretically gone their own way and are enjoying a woman- and stress-free life. Nothing against that. However, the first subforums that hit me were "Marriage and Divorce," "Relationships," "Online Dating"...

The sports, fitness and career subforums were farther down the page and had few posts.

Maybe there should be a group called MWHGTOW.. Men Who Have Gone Their Own Way. And the discussions there are completely, blissfully free of any reference to women at all.

 

[Tenacity]

That's fine and I believe you. However, my question has always been, if MGTOW guys have really "gone their own way," are busy with their own lives, and women don't even cross their minds, why do they still talk endlessly about them?

I went over to the MGTOW.com forums, expecting a discussion group of guys talking about everything other than women, since they've theoretically gone their own way and are enjoying a woman- and stress-free life. Nothing against that. However, the first subforums that hit me were "Marriage and Divorce," "Relationships," "Online Dating"...

The sports, fitness and career subforums were farther down the page and had few posts.

Maybe there should be a group called MWHGTOW.. Men Who Have Gone Their Own Way. And the discussions there are completely, blissfully free of any reference to women at all.

Depends on what levels those MGTOW guys are at. If you are Level 1, 2, or 3, you are still dealing with women in terms of romantic interests in SOME capacity. In addition, even if you are Level 4, you still have to deal with the negative effects of Feminism even from dealing with women on a solely professional basis.

I think MGTOW gets a bad rep as just "Hate Speech" when it's really not (from a foundational standpoint). It's just realizing that the market has changed and the old ways of doing relationships aren't efficient anymore.

We just need a NEW REALITY. Marriage isn't the answer anymore, we need an alternative relationship "structure" that is tailored to a new reality with liberated women that have no form of true loyalty.

I actually prefer this market than the old one. I actually like a liberated woman! I think women can do more than just cook, clean and make babies, as a Black Man I can totally understand what it means to be considered SHYT but property to White Men. It's why I'm really confused on why Black Women became Feminists, what Black Men oppressed you? But I guess I can understand in a way how the Movement would help all women be more than just a cook, clean and baby slave.

But I digress....the solution today is either to totally UPDATE the Marriage Laws or create an Alternative structure, but the CURRENT MARRIAGE system is broken and inefficient.

 

[The Duke]

My divorce:

Red Flags-

1. She came from two parents who stayed married but only did so for convenience/financial reasons. Her parents were cold towards each other a majority of the time.

2. She liked to dress over the top. At the time I thought it was just because she liked wearing very nice clothes, but it was to attract attention. Kind of like what women do at red carpet events in Hollywood.

3. She was totally into hair/nails/tanning etc. She looked really good, but she took this to the the extreme.

Mistakes I made during the marriage:

1. Let her manage all the money. There was little being saved and she spent a lot on stupid worthless stuff.

2. I was too honest. A wife isn't your best friend. Don't think for one minute you can tell her every thing. She'll hold it against you and think you are weak.

3. My exwife was always attractive and when she walked into the room everybody took notice, but there was a time she lost 15lbs and was looking extremely hott. I became infatuated. It was the beginning of the end. We were taking nude/sechsy pics and sending them to buddies. All this did was boost her confidence that she was all that. I helped finance some plastic surgery that didn't do me any good either.

4. I got too into my job/hobby and didn't make time for our marriage. I quit working on it. I treated her more like a mom, than a wife.

5. I frequently made/let her drive us wherever we were going. This didn't help my cause or how she viewed me.

She ended up cheating on me. She moved out. We tried to work on fixing things but by then she was already liking the feel and attention from all the stray cahk she was riding and it was a chore to sit her down. After a few months, I filed for divorce.

A few years went by and now she regrets it all. She lost the relationship with my family, easy lifestyle, nice house, a dog, nice vacations, nice vehicles, lots of good friends. After a few years on the cahk carousel post divorce, she got fat and depressed. Had to get a counselor to resolve things from our past marriage that she was still struggling with years later. As part of getting past her issues, her counselor recommended she call me up and apologize for what she did. It was the strangest phone call I've ever had and was the last time I've heard from her.

Funny thing is she was the most rational woman I've ever known. I really liked that quality about her. There was little drama as a result, however I don't think that is such a good thing for a woman. There's a flip side to it......

Divorce is one of the hardest things I've ever gone thru. I'm pretty tough but this had an effect on me for over a year. When I found out she cheated on me(to this day has never has admitted to it) I didn't eat or sleep for days. When I did, I was out at a restaurant with some friends and ending up pooping my pants from all the stress and I'm the guy that can handle about anything.

I've definitely learned a lot about women since then. Had a lot of good times too.

 

[atlantadawg]

I'm starting to think you might be a troll, because for someone going through a divorce right now personally, that is a testiment to the fact that marriages fail. Yet, on the other hand, you are saying that men who don't want to get married for the risk of it failing are scared and gay? That makes absolutely no sense.




Danger I agree, with MGTOW you have the different levels.

- Level 1 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here in this new market of women but still choose to make kids, get married, etc.

- Level 2 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here and choose to reject long term legal structures like getting married and making kids, but you still date and have short term relations. (I'M AT THIS LEVEL)

- Level 3 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here and as a result you opt out of not just long term relationships but also dating and short term relationships. You might be doing ONS and Escorts only.

- Level 4 is when you are aware of the situation going on out here, you reject doing anything with women at all other than on a professional level, and you also live a Minimalist Lifestyle to avoid having to pay taxes on your labor.


I'm at Level 2 and this is where I will be until I die. Women still offer me benefits in terms of Sex and Companionship, as well as occassional "Quality" benefits like maybe cooking, cleaning, etc. for me. I can get all of these in a dating, friends with benefits and short term relationship as I have been getting, so I'm comfortable with this going forward.

I don't think that the Level 2 and Level 3 guys are that far apart, I'm actually a Level 2 with a side of Level 3 as I incorporate ONS and Escorts as well.

I don't see how a guy can be Level 1, knowing what the hell he knows, but a lot of guys like hithard are seemingly LEVEL 1 MGTOWs as they know the situation going on out here, but still believe they can "strategically manage" their ways around it. I think that's just flawed thinking, but to each their own.

I don't see how a guy can be Level 4, damn dude don't you have goals and ambitions in life? I try to be as Minimalist as possible but I only get one life and I want to make as much money as possible, live the good life, and then die to see whatever is waiting for me on the other side.

To clarify, when I hear MGTOW, I tend to think of the Level 4 hardcore types, that is just kooky to me, and no way to live.
I get there are different levels, yadda, yadda, yadda, and perhaps mispoke in lumping them all together, though I still think the term has anti relationship, anti woman connotations in general, and I love women, just have made some poor choices there.
Having said that, though, I don't give a flying sh*t what your opinion is of me
and I assure you I won't be losing a minute's sleep if you think I'm a troll or whatever.

 

[Tenacity]

To clarify, when I hear MGTOW, I tend to think of the Level 4 hardcore types, that is just kooky to me, and no way to live.
I get there are different levels, yadda, yadda, yadda, and perhaps mispoke in lumping them all together, though I still think the term has anti relationship, anti woman connotations in general, and I love women, just have made some poor choices there.
Having said that, though, I don't give a flying sh*t what your opinion is of me
and I assure you I won't be losing a minute's sleep if you think I'm a troll or whatever.

Well, that's good to hear.

 

[hockeyfreak79]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, but I'm interested in where guys think things went wrong.
Maybe some background on the ex (parents divorced, raised by single parent, etc).
Also was it prior to finding these forums.

Stress, resentment, alcohol, I checked out, stopped caring...Life in general I
suppose.

Her parents still together, 25yrs?
My parents divorced when I was 10.

All I knew about was david deangelo & the system.

When we met she was 23 I was 25. She was a single mom already divorced, had her own place & decent job to support herself & 2yr old son. I come from a big family so her having a son didn't bother me.

After 1yr dating we get our first apartment together, 3yrs later I proposed, 1yr of engagement & 2yrs married.

We were making a decent living between the 2 of us, so my mom moved in for about a year and that was a big mistake. NEVER do this! It didn't cause a lot of issues, but enough.

First 6mo of marriage we tried getting pregnant but couldn't. Then I got laid off from work so that stopped, the combined stress of the 2 killed me. She supported me, I collected unemployment & had a good severance package. 4 months unemployed, so I find a new job & things start getting better there.

But at this point I'm pretty much checked out from all the stress, I stop caring & didn't want to try getting pregnant again. Something in the back of my mind told me, NOPE.

Checked out emotionally, abandonment issues of my own I suppose. That's when things get worse & she sleeps a female co-worker. I knew right away, she confesses. She was devastated & hated herself for straying. She says she was confused & says she thinks she might be lesbian. I was tore up, pretty grossed out too cause the girl was not attractive at all. I was like damn why couldn't she atleast be a hot! Around this time frame she's drinking & taking meds. BAD combo! She hid that part from me, I thought the z was just for times of aniexty.

So the blue pill in me thinks I can fix this, I forgive her & starting reading self help psychology books on loving your wife again, blah. I think I made it 30 pages? She sobers up, gets clean & starts her replacement search.

Her:
Pros
- She had drive to be successful, made as much $ as I did at 1 point.
- Enjoyed all my hobbies, she had a few of her own too, loved all my friends & family
- Never pressured me to marry her (from what I can remember)
- Relationship weight, but healthy. Skinny when we met. Went from B to D
cup and a great a**.
- Her sex drive was higher than mine

Red flags:
- Single mom, below average mom
- Alcoholic abusve ex husband
- Hid her mental issues I wasn't aware of or maybe it was me?
- Health issues, medical bills
- Sucked @ managing $ when she started making more (at this point I took over the bills)
- Alcohol & pills last year of marriage

Divorce hurt more mentally than financially. Lost 20lbs, pretty proud to say I never touched 1 drink. Alcoholism runs in my family, I knew it wouldn't help me.

She just wanted to get the divorce over & done with, no lawyers. The research was brutal I did all the paperwork, uncontested with no lawyers. She got about 4k from savings & judge approved it all.

For about a year after we split she occasionaly let me spend time with her son. He called me dad & I was a better father than the biological but that changed overtime. He was always grounded & pretty much not aloud to do anything fun when we hungout. He's a good kid, I'm sure there will be some scars but that's just apart of life.

 

[expos]

.

She just wanted to get the divorce over & done with.

This sounds brutal, Hockeyfreak. The questions I have are....

1) Why did you want to marry a single mom? You were 25 at the time, did you not have options for something better?

2) You mean to tell me in the 5-6 years you have known her, she never had any type of crazy behavior that made you question her?

3) Where is she today? Is she remarried? Did she ever apologize?

4) Did she not learn anything from her first marriage? How quickly did you get with her after divorce?