The Pusssy/Self-Esteem Dichotomy

[davewe]

Every sexual competitor seeks to disqualify their rivals from breeding opportunities. Most animals fight for territory or harem rights. Humans generally do the same combat in the psychological. We seek to disqualify sexual competitors by calling into doubt the sexual legitimacy of a rival. "Yeah, he's really good looking, but that means he's probably gay" from a man, or "You think that blonde with the big boobs is hot? Girls who dress like that are usually sluts" from a woman are both psychological, sexually disqualifying forms of combat. So are esoteric pleas to higher self morality.

This also applies to the observably, provably, sexually successful male capable of OVERTLY flaunting his high sexual value with 2 or more concurrent women. He must be of low moral character to so flagrantly manipulate his multiple women, right? His success, as a sexual competitor, conflicts with what a self-righteous beta believes should constitute a beta-defined definition of Alpha-ness as it characterizes him personally. Thus, a polygamist must either be disqualified as a sexual competitor based on subjective (moral) grounds, or the beta is forced to alter his own definition of Alphaness and therefore his own self-estimate.

As an interesting aside, I should also add here that women NEVER doubt themselves on moral grounds for outshining their own competition in the sexual market place - they just do so covertly and with a polite smile, unburdened by ethical doubts. Only men attempt to disqualify other men from the sexual marketplace with assaults another's honor, integrity or aspirations of moral virtue.

I'm not always the biggest RT fan, but this is a great post. Frankly you see this behavior on all of the men's forums. Its like the famous scene in A Beautiful Mind.

We ought to be working togther not against each other, but our competitive natures drive us to denegrate the success of another man and question either his honesty or ethics.

 

[Pandora]

I don't derive my self worth from something as fickle as women! I understand your point, but I never really try so hard to get a hot woman in a year. That sounds like a poor use of time & effort. Maybe the guys who have that mentality - always trying very hard to land a hot woman - are the same ones who have this self-esteem vs ***** problem.

Ok cool. I see what you mean Jitterbug and i agree. Now a new problem arises. Should a males self esteem come from purely internal sources or some external sources? What determines the worth of a male. Accomplishments? It cant be purely internal becuz that denies the fact that we are social creatures.

 

[Pandora]

By the way, it may be wrong to link your self esteem to sex, but a lot of guys do it. A whole lot of guys get validation from being able to get attractive women. A whole lot of guys.

Zekko is right. Most guys do things in order for the sexual payoff. Why do you think most guys start bands or go to prestigious professional schools or get alot of muscles. Why would a man spend 7 years post college still in school. Becuz he wants the women, money and power (which lead to more women). Heck alot of young men go to college just for sex. Guys get nice cars, and high paying jobs initially for the lure of the women.
Remember that skit with Chris Rock said best "If men could **** in a cardboard box, they wouldn't buy a house."
Its very difficult to break the link between self esteem and sexual validation. Im starting to believe that when you break that link, this is where true freedom lies.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Seems to be some pretty strong feelings about this.
I think it's just a matter of personal preference. If you don't want to bang low quality women, there's no shame in that.
And if you do want to, I'm not going to chastise you for it.

By the way, it may be wrong to link your self esteem to sex, but a lot of guys do it. A whole lot of guys get validation from being able to get attractive women. A whole lot of guys.

True. But online on Sosuave every guy is a tough guy who's self esteem is not effected one way or the other whether they sex up a whale or the most gorgeous, desirable girl. Of course they only bang attractive girls anyway. Their self esteem is rock solid and independent of the external, right? And they have sex purely for fun because they know they are really just like any other animal and are fulfilling their biological imperative as the alpha wolf that they are. Did I get that right?

I'm not saying I totally agree with the OP or that some good points weren't made on both sides, but there is a lot of rationalization, posturing and BS in this thread.

In reality and in general not having sex effects men's self esteem and the more attractive the females are the more it boost esteem. You could argue sleeping with only unattractive women can be almsot as bad as no sex. Of course everyone here only picks up hot girls, right?

 

[backbreaker]

True. But online on Sosuave every guy is a tough guy who's self esteem is not effected one way or the other whether they sex up a whale or the most gorgeous, desirable girl. Of course they only bang attractive girls anyway. Their self esteem is rock solid and independent of the external, right? And they have sex purely for fun because they know they are really just like any other animal and are fulfilling their biological imperative as the alpha wolf that they are. Did I get that right?

I'm not saying I totally agree with the OP or that some good points weren't made on both sides, but there is a lot of rationalization, posturing and BS in this thread.

In reality and in general not having sex effects men's self esteem and the more attractive the females are the more it boost esteem. You could argue sleeping with only unattractive women can be almsot as bad as no sex. Of course everyone here only picks up hot girls, right?

enough with the ad homienems

 

[Jitterbug]

Is pointing out a fallacy fashionable in this thread? lol

This is another one of those fallacies - that a guy putting forth effort toward women is "trying very hard" or too hard, devoting too much time better spent on other things. And you've tacked on low self-esteem as an explanation.

At some point, you have to "try" to seduce a woman. Approaching, developing rapport, maintaining inner game, sex - these all take effort. Once game is internalized of course it might seem and feel effortless. Don't get me wrong - there are definitely guys out there we can label as "try-hard" based on their tactics and inability to read signs, but it's also a dismissive label used by guys who don't want to try at all to change their sex lives.

It's not a fallacy if you read it in context. I was responding to someone who said that a guy would feel horribly depressed if he tried so hard to get hot women all year long but only managed to get a fattie at the end. That is a guy who makes chasing women his very top priority. What do we teach those guys at SS?

Ok cool. I see what you mean Jitterbug and i agree. Now a new problem arises. Should a males self esteem come from purely internal sources or some external sources? What determines the worth of a male. Accomplishments? It cant be purely internal becuz that denies the fact that we are social creatures.

Internal and external, and you have a choice in which ones.

 

[backbreaker]

Okay here is a scenario



36 year old guy, either a high ranking guy in a company or founded a company that does millions of dollars in revenue per year. his business is based in chicago. He's a single guy, though he goes on dates with women that he deems attractive when he has the time to. he's not a gym rat but he's in relatively good health, he's not fat or anything, let's say 5'11 180. he can dress himself, doesn't have ****ty credit, etc.

guy is trying close a deal with a client based in miami. he flys down to miami on a Thursday night, he is supposed to be there until Monday. He was supposed to go out on a night on the town with the client on Saturday, but the clients wife is trippin, so he has nothing to do. he doesn't know anything about Miami, so he just gets in a cab and goes to the nearest bar to get out the hotel room.

there he meets a younger 40ish yet still pretty damn hot woman. she's defiantly a looker, and you can tell she knows the bar like the back of her hand. she knows the bartender by name, she has people stopping by and saying hi, etc. she's not a newbie. she sees you, you see her, she gives you a smile, he goes over and introduces himself. he buys her a drink. she drinks it. he buys another. she is getting very flirty. an hour later they are tongue wrestling and she's talking about all the freaky crap she likes to do in bed. He asks her does she want to go to his hotel room she is up before he gets the sentence out. screws her all night long. He wakes up in the morning and she's gone never to be heard from again.


explain to me, exactly how this guy is supposed to have low self esteem, because i don't see it. All in all that's a pretty successful night if you ask me. Go from sitting home doing nothing to getting laid by an attractive woman in a matter of 2 or so hours, regardless of if she is "low quality" or not, that's pretty damn impressive

Not only that, lol, when he meets with his partner, if he's anything like I am, I'm going to tell him i bagged a barfly Saturday night if he asks what i did, the client will laugh, they will talk about women for 5-10 minutes and he will close the deal, and jet back to his normal life in Chicago. Not because I feel I have to "prove myself" to anyone, or that I feel that she validated me or any stupid **** like that, because that's what normal single guys do, and that's how they talk to each other. Who gives a damn. it is what it is. That stance just is not practical in real life.

It's like the movie Brief Interviews with Hideous Men, that movie reminds me of this forum so much. There are 2 guys that throughout the whole movie are just sitting there in the background debating on what it is women want and how to catch women, what they do and do not find attractive, and every time they are talking Julianne Nicholson (who i have a harmless crush on) is passing them by, by herself, going somewhere or doing something, yet neither of them ever actaully tries to talk to her, because they are too busy debating with each other. Alot of the stuff, not just in this thread, but in this forum, just doesn't hold weight when you put it up against the real world test which tells me alot of people have little real world experience. stop talking start doing.

 

[yuppaz]

Guys that I know that are actively dating and trying to be PUA's have the OP's mindset exactly. It IS a problem in success with women....problem being guys that have issues basing their self esteem around ANY kind of ass and feeling they are somehow BENEATH guys that do, or less than their idealistic version of....dundundun MISTER SUPER DUPER APLHA...woooooooow.

The O/P post is very relevant and very true. The guys that I know that base their self esteem around their sex lives have meager ones, feel sh*tty when they don't get laid, which in turn helps them to NOT get laid... and even winning (in Roissy's alpha world...which btw Roisey ain't no f*ckin alpha) it is pretty unfulfilling when it is JUST sex. Been there A LOT, done that A LOT and it's only good if you have ego issues....seriously....

 

[DanelMadr]

My take on this:

We have to question our motives.

Are we f. her /them bc we think it will make us look better in others eyes or make us feel better about ourselves?

Are we seeking for approval?

That would be bad, bc it feeds ego. Ego which is wrong in principle - false image of ourselves to give us "purpose"/sense. Ego is 'coping with fears' mind construct and eventually it will sabotage us in order to protect the false image. Reality (aka truth) should concern us.

Or

Are we rejecting her, thinking that she is no good even before we give her chance, bc we are driven by protecting ego/fear of rejection, shame etc.?
Or are we rejecting her, bc our ego idealized for us better catch (HB10)?

We have to question our motives.Only you can judge them. We should be honest. Dishonesty seldom scores good points.

Bottom line is:
This game is about having offspring with best chances for survival, being healthy (good genes in mother, guessed by appearance and character) and having good nurturing prospects (mother's character/mental state).

F. around with help of pill and/or condom is just a side play.

My motto/bottom line/rule:

Don't f. who you wouldn't date and don't date who you wouldn't f..

 

[Tazman]

Getting laid, even if by someone you consider beneath you still serves a useful purpose. It's a stress reliever, in fact, you may even feel better about it if you don't find it necessary to invest anything more and still get what you want.

I've been with a couple women that I didn't want anyone to know about because honestly I just wanted some easy ass and these women weren't anything to boast about. Obviously I was able to get aroused with them so they weren't that bad, but I felt no need to intro them to the circle and tarnish my rep.

Did I feel bad about it? Of course not. They were actually stepping stones for me to get some notches and a release I hadn't had in a while. Confidence was up and I moved on to greener pastures. I even went back to one of them because she was eager to please and it was great for covering any extended dry spell.

If you ever have sex with a woman who you think you can do better than, it really doesn't mean much, even if it was more of a convenience at the time. At that moment, you were with the woman because she was the only viable option you had, you were her equal. Whether it was 5 minutes or 5 months.

 

[Warrior74]

Tazman gets it. I went through a year long drought. I was pvssy repllent. I eventually gave up about half way through when I had personal and financial troubles. One day I met this butt ugly chic with a nice body who hit on me on the bus. I banged her for 3 months and I got my mojo back. Did I take her out in public? Well not to my local hangouts. Did I feel bad for stooping so low? A little bit. But pvssy is like money, it runs from you if you need it and flocks to you when you have it. After her, I ended up being back in the game and recruited a few plates. Eventually I let her down easy. You have to be thankful sometimes and sometimes you have to crawl before you walk. Not every man is equal in the game and some tactics that work for some won't work for others. For me a 'starter chic' was what I needed to get back in the game.

 

[Warrior74]

Tazman gets it. I went through a year long drought. I was pvssy repllent. I eventually gave up about half way through when I had personal and financial troubles. One day I met this butt ugly chic with a nice body who hit on me on the bus. I banged her for 3 months and I got my mojo back. Did I take her out in public? Well not to my local hangouts. Did I feel bad for stooping so low? A little bit. But pvssy is like money, it runs from you if you need it and flocks to you when you have it. After her, I ended up being back in the game and recruited a few plates. Eventually I let her down easy. You have to be thankful sometimes and sometimes you have to crawl before you walk. Not every man is equal in the game and some tactics that work for some won't work for others. For me a 'starter chic' was what I needed to get back in the game.

 

[backbreaker]

But pvssy is like money, it runs from you if you need it and flocks to you when you have it.

that is fvcking gold.