The Next Step.

[A-Unit]

This "next step" occurs in a guy's mid 20's, after a period of a year or longer, in which it is expected he "committs" (more than he has), or leaves his gf/date. It may even be delayed until the 30's, depending on the guy. Regardless of when it occurs, 20's or 30's, any successful DJ will encounter this issue by way of his own life, friends', or family.

For me, at 26, I encounter this not only by way of my own gf, but by way of people are me who are getting married. Mostly, I don't get it. Does this site and its thinking damage guys to where marriage or what most perceive as deeper committment is an impossibility??

My bro is moving to DC, basically for his gf. My buddy who is 28 and just finalized a divorced, has encumbered himself with another girl, 24, not pretty, but a great personality. He even mentioned her "lack of attractiveness" by mentioning their personal connection, but his lack of physical attraction. My bro on the other hand, who works retail despite having a BA in Music Business, is choosing to move to DC with his gf. This move 100% benefits her. She gets to be smack dab in the middle of her parents and sister now. She gets paid a bit more money to be a courier for the clients of her sister. And the rent for their place is paid for each week if they do 10 hours of work per week for the people who own the building. It isn't a career building move, but rather a move to be closer to family and move from new england. I won't go into why I think it's a raw deal for my bro, outside of the fact he wants to be around her, as that's not the poing of my post. But these are factors in my lack of understanding surrounding "the next step" that guys in their mid 20's seem to take and I just.....don't get excited about.

A gf/date/wife is 1 person. They're not...to me anyways...100% compatible. My gf, while she fakes it, doesn't LOVE golf like I do. That's reserved for my brother, father and friends. No, she, and most other women I have dated, have always loved movies, drama, magazines, gossip, shopping, socializing, etc. Yes, I have a good amount in common with said GF, but nowhere enough to make them ALL of my life. I love spending time with her, but I couldn't do...7 days. I doubt even 5. If I want to read a book, watch a movie only I like, play a video game, lift, golf, I do that alone or with the friend with whom that corresponds to.

But the idea I can go from me, this, to...home, wife, kids, seems to be...what every woman wants. Me, I never played "house". Or "kids." Or "married." Girls did. They had dolls. They played house. Tended to dolls as their own babies. That must have been as long as they can remember. Me, I always DID as I always DO now. I can't imagine "shaking" that up. I see the next step as...losing a part of that.

My divorced buddy shocks me. He HATES his exgf/wife, although he talks about her enough and she does still call. Yet, he has found a great girl with no so great looks but an awesome heart. Having only let the ink dry on his divorce agreement, he's now mumbling to her "move in, I want marriage, let's spend the rest of our life together." How do I know this? Well, in a twisted game of PHONE CALL, his new girl tells my current girl. That's how. No man would dare admit that, and no woman would dare make that up, lest it get back to him and truly ruin their happiness.

Do I want to have kids?
Yeah, sure.
Do I want a 'wife?"
Who the fark knows.
Currently, I see it as a bunch more bills, and the greatest committment ever. Something I am not ready to make. Who knows when?

Marriage and the next step seem to benefit a woman. She gets committment, resources, respectability, social time, a house, the opportunity and excuse not to work, half his income, and 100% of his planned time. She's the default. Any plans he makes MUST go through her first. Money he makes. Maybe it sounds cynical, and one could "you haven't found the right girl to turn it around," or maybe, I just don't believe relationships CAN exist like that. I don't think a marriage in anyway behooves the kind of life I want to live. What I want to do. How does a marrige BENEFIT a man? Truly? What does deeper committment give him?

I've always believed I AM THE END. That's it. Nobody but me, makes me happy. Yeah, sure I get pleasure from OUR time, but I can't rely on that time to BE happy. Just like, I don't believe finding a girl when you are 25 will be the one you've been waiting for...even though they would LOVE to believe that and hear it. I don't want to answer for my time. I don't want to answer on my money spent. I don't want to attach myself to someone who then thinks they can let go of themselves, or even RISK that.

Moreover, I'm pissed at my bro. He's had a long track record of poor gf's, and has never learned to survive on his own. A good majority of his collegiate bills were funded my parents, and despite being disgruntled, I still think of him as my best friend and brother. Which is all the more reason I'm pissed about it. Were he moving for a career improvement or to be on his own, cool. But to move for that d-bag....no way. And she isn't even getting a great career out of it, just some job shagging back and forth for rich, messed up folks who see her psychologist sister. Weak. My dad also vibrates the same sentiments.

I just don't get it.
Maybe other's are in the same boat.
Or maybe I'm alone.



A-Unit

 

[blueguy]

Marriage or serious commitment can benefit the guy more than the wife/girl. Depends on who the wife is, who is giving more in the relationship, how well she is trained, etc. If you get a "good deal" (pay less than what she's worth) and other deals are runing out (ie: you're getting old... 26 is not old), why would you not want to commit? Yeah the power balance shifts if she threatens to take half your money or whatever but that can be fixed with a prenup or no marriage (or if she is richer than you, no prenup!). Anyway, what I am trying to say is that commitment can actually benefit the guy in some cases... it's simple economics. Just playing devil's advocate because everybody says there is no way the man can benefit... but that depends on the girl.

 

[RedPill]

How does a marrige BENEFIT a man? Truly? What does deeper committment give him?

This question was directly asked and discussed in this thread, starting on the second page:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115398&page2

Having the knowledge to operate out of conventional societal paradigms is powerful stuff. Certainly this is the case when it comes to the expectation that your goal in a relationship is to advance it toward marriage, or take "the next step" as you called it.

One of this most frustrating things about knowing what you know is that you're going to see people you care about make some big AFC choices in their life and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

 

[Hitman10000]

I really think men should be looking for wife/mother (for their children) skills if they plan to marry. Anyone who marries just for the hell of it or doesn't want children are f*cking wasting their time. That's the ONLY reason why people should marry.

Yeah, and listen to your momma and other old ladies, never marry a woman who is in her 30s. If she couldn't figure it out from her teens to her late 20s on what she wants she is not the right person for you.

 

[STR8UP]

For me, at 26, I encounter this not only by way of my own gf, but by way of people are me who are getting married. Mostly, I don't get it. Does this site and its thinking damage guys to where marriage or what most perceive as deeper committment is an impossibility??

This is an excellent question. Something I have contemplated a lot recently.

This site and its thinking is a double edge sword.

On one hand it equips you with a very valuable protection mechanism that allows you to make better decisions when dealing with women.

On the other hand, you are now able to put your emotions aside and deal with things on a more rational level, which not only takes some of the FUN out of things to an extent, but it also sometimes prevents you from taking chances, and that can be a bad thing.

I don't believe that a deeper commitment is impossible, but now that the lights have been turned on for me as to the way the world REALLY works, I am not sure if I will ever find someone I can trust enough to take that step.

Who knows what the future holds. Maybe being a DJ will be the thing that keeps me from becoming happily married. One way or the other though, I know I am a better person for having learned what a lot of guys will never know.

 

[KarmaSutra]

This is an excellent question. Something I have contemplated a lot recently.

This site and its thinking is a double edge sword.

On one hand it equips you with a very valuable protection mechanism that allows you to make better decisions when dealing with women.

On the other hand, you are now able to put your emotions aside and deal with things on a more rational level, which not only takes some of the FUN out of things to an extent, but it also sometimes prevents you from taking chances, and that can be a bad thing.

I don't believe that a deeper commitment is impossible, but now that the lights have been turned on for me as to the way the world REALLY works, I am not sure if I will ever find someone I can trust enough to take that step.

Who knows what the future holds. Maybe being a DJ will be the thing that keeps me from becoming happily married. One way or the other though, I know I am a better person for having learned what a lot of guys will never know.

Fvcking awesome answer my friend!

I too see there is a damned if you do / damned if you don't paradigm with the philosophy of the DJ. Best thing to do is once you have mastered and internalized the information here is always follow your gut. Rarely will your gut steer you wrong. I listen to my little man very closely.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

If you get a "good deal"..., why would you not want to commit?

Committing to anyone or anything automatically implies a loss of options. The true meaning of power isn't about how thouroughly you can control others, but how much control you have over your own life. Committing to anyone or anything limits the options you have available from which to make decisions for yourself. Some committment is unavoidably necessary (field of education, career path, personal passions and ambitions) others are entirely voluntary (marriage choice, job, external choices), regardless, each committment constrains, limits or eliminates options. A man without options becomes necessitous, and necessitous men are never free.

Since we're discussing marriage committment, I think the obvious limitation is that your options to see who you will are eliminated. The well trained AFC will see marriage as goal or a summation of a life long 'need' he's been conditioned to believe he has, and just a passing mention of staying uncommitted or non-exclusive for as long as possible is met with the same resistance he's been taught to respond with - "you're just too immature and/or 'shallow' to commit" or "you're committment-phobic." All of which are standard feminine social contrivances.

Look deeper than this though. The silly, binary answer is " oh Rollo, you just want guys to bang as many girls as they can", but try to look beyond the sexual shaming that comes with this. There are many more options that you are restrained from by committing. Your personal time, your ability to pursue your ambitions, your career, your family, even your choice of automobile all become subject to this committment. And at any slight deviation in your asserting your previous, non-exclusive options your present degree of committment becomes questionable and suspect so as to bring you back under it's control.

Committed people have a kind of jealousy of the uncommitted to the point where they will shame them into a similar committment. This isn't bourne from anger, but rather a twisted sense of respect for the uncommitted. You instantly make yourself powerful because you remain unchained and ungraspable, rather than surrendering to the group as most people do. You posess option that they do not.

The moment you commit the magic is gone. You become like everyone else. The moment a woman unconditionally knows she is your only source of sex and intimacy the frame of the relationship shifts. That female competition anxiety that had her hanging from the chandelier or giving you head in the bathroom stall at the club when you were first having sex is gone. This shift in the frame is inevitable - how you deal with it and control it within committment can keep a good portion of that alive, but the urgency for her qualifying herself to you is gone.

 

[STR8UP]

Best thing to do is once you have mastered and internalized the information here is always follow your gut. Rarely will your gut steer you wrong. I listen to my little man very closely.

You know it. It's there for a reason. If you disobey your gut, it's at your own peril.

 

[STR8UP]

The well trained AFC will see marriage as goal or a summation of a life long 'need' he's been conditioned to believe he has, and just a passing mention of staying uncommitted or non-exclusive for as long as possible is met with the same resistance he's been taught to respond with - "you're just too immature and/or 'shallow' to commit" or "you're committment-phobic." All of which are standard feminine social contrivances.

I used to know this guy a few years back. He was one of those UBER good looking types, a guy with near perfect genes. This guy had plenty of women swarming him at any given time, yet he was 100% focused on GETTING MARRIED.

You think I'm joking? I'm totally serious. This guy was ACHING to get married. And so he did.

For the life of me I can't understand why a 21 yr old guy, ESPECIALLY one who had the looks and the body to "explore his options" for years to come, would be totally focused on committing to ONE woman. Actually I can understand, because I dated his psycho sister for a minute or two. But that's another story...

Chicks will always want to settle down. BUT IT ISN'T IN A MAN'S NATURE. So if it isn't "nature", then it must be "nurture".

Today we are nurtured into a lot of sh!t that goes against our biological needs and desires. Marriage is one of them.

I'm not saying that marriage is evil, but you need to know what you are really getting yourself into and how to control the situation, and on top of that you better be sure you have one of those rare women that have what it takes on their end to make it work, or you're in for a world of hurt. Most men don't know what they are getting themselves into, much less having a decent woman that will work WITH them instead of AGAINST them in the process.

And if I had a fukkin dollar for every time I heard that ridiculous phrase "You're commitment phobic", I'd never work another day in my life. Every time a chick says that to me I just want to grab her and shake her out of her brainwashed coma. But I know better. Most all women and many men think this way, and you aren't going to change them.

 

[synergy1]

I don't believe that a deeper commitment is impossible, but now that the lights have been turned on for me as to the way the world REALLY works, I am not sure if I will ever find someone I can trust enough to take that step.

Who knows what the future holds. Maybe being a DJ will be the thing that keeps me from becoming happily married. One way or the other though, I know I am a better person for having learned what a lot of guys will never know.

Your first point is an advocate for taking the blue pill so to speak. I have been thinking a great deal along the lines of what the Poster mentioned in this thread, and sometimes I wonder how much I benefit understanding/ seeing all the downfalls most men before me have taken. Day in and day out I see co workers who's past fun filled lives are all but a distant memory now, tied into an intricate web of commitment between their wives, families, money, and children. I can not come to grips with myself that this is the be all end all, or last major step as everyone so easily suggests.

Its hard to be able to predict the future based on logic alone based on what we know. The emotions that are intertwined with meeting a good women can completely destroy ones previous notions that we have all taken great liberties to incorporate into our lives. I don't want to dismiss marriage as a possibility at some point in my life, but it is hardly something I am actively seeking at this point; especially as each day I continue to improve with women.


Committed people have a kind of jealousy of the uncommitted to the point where they will shame them into a similar commitment. This isn't bourne from anger, but rather a twisted sense of respect for the uncommitted. You instantly make yourself powerful because you remain unchained and ungraspable, rather than surrendering to the group as most people do. You posess option that they do not.

This is an exact occurrence I am observing amongst most people I come in contact with, be it friends, co workers, or even random people. I am realizing now that people don't tell you about you in many conversations; simple fact is they do not care. People project themselves in conversations, and will do so in a negative fashion if they feel threatened by some facet of your life. I apologize for basically re-hashing what you have said, but the truth is so profound. Their twisted mindset of envy, and self deprecation is observed in obtuse upbased attacks on one they perceive to be a superior. I try to avoid this, but catch myself even doing this from time to time!

Learning, and growing older is both a blessing and a curse. It is hard to accept that everyone is so insecure, so afraid, and so self centered in this world. Knowing this gives me what I need to know to break this matrix, but along the lines of catcher in the rye, it ruins my innocence of youth.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

See for me...the 'motivation' so to speak would be a beautiful, no concern for the amount of kids I have, able to afford anything I want to give them, a life under MY control, MY schedule, and the confidence and success knowing I did this for them. Yeah, many parents have messed up kids, ungrateful kids, or cheating wives, but that's the gamble? It's an equal gamble being single and banging only the "left overs", because eventually what you'll end up with are the divorced, unattractice, or complete committment-phobic women. Sure some women don't marry and enter a COMMON law marriage as I know many couples in maine have, but in the end, you're alone or with someone.

It isn't INEVITABLE...it's just, the course of nature. It's one landmark on your worldwide voyage.

I'm thoroughly confused. I'm never confused early on in a relationship. Later on, I get that way. It's almost as predictable as the sun rising. 2 years, bam, not sure. THE REAL issues people won't counter, or guys, is that come your mid 20's and onwards, you deal not only with career pressure, but that every woman has a subconscious desire to procreate, either intentionally or by way of sabotage. They see it around them. They feel it within them. They've dreamt it for many years. She may even counter pressure from peers or family.

I've done the date around sleep/around thing. Yeah it's fun. Pick and choose your timetable, who you bring where, but as I mentioned, depth, committment to SOMETHING, yields the satisfaction we seek. Heck, you can't aspire to wealth or success WITHOUT committment. And here we espouse NO committment, except to oneself. That's fine. But most guys will find one girl to committ to, for whom doing what you do means something, who appreciates what you do and who you are.

Why I would committ and with whom...

- I don't take girls I date around my family. I like taking a girl around my family who I'm dating.
- I don't spend much dough on girls. I like spending dough on girls, but only a gf.
- I don't plan vacations with non-gfs. I like vacationing and traveling.

There is something to be said about having a gf who's awesome and dating flaky skanks. My current gf surpries me ALL the time, puts on langerie, cooks me dinners, has nice drink nights planned for when I come home from work, can socialize with my fam while I go golfing, generally gives me the space I need to be me, is open to try new things, is incredibly beautiful, funny, interesting, and generally cares more about being with me...than what we do, i.e. she can watch shows I watch, watch me at the range, will eat where I pick. She's the type of gf who's a girly girl, who wants to model her mom's marriage, which is...her dad makes the dough, he makes the decisions. However, women aren't willing slaves. In return, they often want you around ALOT. Girls who are like that aren't always wicked independent. But it's a trade off. I see, for me, things being more 50/50. I don't mind a woman's input, it would be Our life, not just mine. And if it's 50/50, she also sacrifices something to be there.

A woman who's a traditional woman, while she gives alot, it's gravey to me. I can take it or leave it. So while my gf does awesome things, would I be ok if I didn't have them? Absolutely. But there are things I definately need you can't get. Input. Contribution (ie working woman). Independence. Greater emotional control, i.e. isn't as emotional as other women.

I think the mid20's are a critical mass of weird confusion. You're made to feel older, when you're not. Some people are really starting their careers, and you're pressured to 'know'. Many people are marrying and settling down, yet new crops of women come available everyday. Maturity was delayed because of college; you had 4 more years of virtually no responsibility except athletics, classes, boozing, and maybe an internship.



A-Unit