The new trophy wife (or girlfriend): Alpha-Women

[MetalFortress]

Why does any guy who doesn't want an "alpha woman" automatically have to be "intimidated" as the explanation for it? Guys who don't want alpha women, don't want them because they go against men being the breadwinners and women being the caretakers. For example, when I am married, and my wife and I have a kid, she is going to be a stay at home mom. For the average guy who isn't a rich man, a wife with a 15-30K a year job and 2-4 years of college (if that) would be more than happy to oblige, while a woman with 6-8 years of college and a 100K salary would be much less likely to do so. That's not "intimidation", that's knowing that someone in that wealth bracket does not work for your long term plans. Stop with this feminist "intimidation" garbage.

For a man in a higher wealth bracket, though, it's more a question of how she thinks of her job and herself as a high-earning woman. If she gets all feminist about it, gets bigheaded about her career, can't shut up about it, etc, keeps on about being a "woman in a man's field", whatever else, that's a turn off. If she is still a feminine woman who just happens to be in a high paying job and treats it as just another facet of life, then that's fine (especially if she displays willingness to give up her career for children in the future)

Right now, I earn in an average wealth bracket. Once I start in real estate, I will earn in a much higher wealth bracket. Both times I would be willing to date a highly paid woman, but I wouldn't be prepared to marry one until I was in the higher wealth bracket.

 

[Joe The Homophobe]

Women have no place in the workforce. But since we live in corrupt modern times nothing we can do about it. Now does it matter if a woman is successful as long as you are in control of the relationship, she looks good and is no b|atch??

this is the problem gentlemen. Successful women are b|tchy and hard to control. A man can go out with any woman as long as the natural balance is respected and he is in control.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
Why does any guy who doesn't want an "alpha woman" automatically have to be "intimidated" as the explanation for it? Guys who don't want alpha women, don't want them because they go against men being the breadwinners and women being the caretakers. For example, when I am married, and my wife and I have a kid, she is going to be a stay at home mom. For the average guy who isn't a rich man, a wife with a 15-30K a year job and 2-4 years of college (if that) would be more than happy to oblige, while a woman with 6-8 years of college and a 100K salary would be much less likely to do so. That's not "intimidation", that's knowing that someone in that wealth bracket does not work for your long term plans. Stop with this feminist "intimidation" garbage.

For a man in a higher wealth bracket, though, it's more a question of how she thinks of her job and herself as a high-earning woman. If she gets all feminist about it, gets bigheaded about her career, can't shut up about it, etc, keeps on about being a "woman in a man's field", whatever else, that's a turn off. If she is still a feminine woman who just happens to be in a high paying job and treats it as just another facet of life, then that's fine (especially if she displays willingness to give up her career for children in the future)

Right now, I earn in an average wealth bracket. Once I start in real estate, I will earn in a much higher wealth bracket. Both times I would be willing to date a highly paid woman, but I wouldn't be prepared to marry one until I was in the higher wealth bracket.

Sounds like you're taking this personally and I wasn't trying to torch anyone's button's (this time).

This thread doesn't have anything to do with feminism; it's about a man's choice to date an Alpha-Woman. And about intimidation, although you may not feel intimidated by these women, there's an abundance of men that do. Live with it.

But that does bring up the question about why you wouldn't marry one until you were in a higher income bracket?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Joe The Homophobe
Women have no place in the workforce. But since we live in corrupt modern times nothing we can do about it. Now does it matter if a woman is successful as long as you are in control of the relationship, she looks good and is no b|atch??

this is the problem gentlemen. Successful women are b|tchy and hard to control. A man can go out with any woman as long as the natural balance is respected and he is in control.

I don't know why women shouldn't be in the workplace but I do agree that it shouldn't matter as long as she's not a b1tch. But shouldn't that be the case no matter the situation?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia

But that does bring up the question about why you wouldn't marry one until you were in a higher income bracket?

Because she instictively wants to date and marry up. Many men feel that and avoid high income women. Most men know that - relationship with A-women will lead nowhere, since it could be only her temporary relationaship untill she finds somebody from her own "money class" or higher.

 

[Gravyboat]

I actually prefer an Alpha-Type woman, because they're usually far more interesting on many levels. They tend to be more intelligent, more independent, more emotionally stable--and they don't expect you to pay for everything or have to coddle them all the time.

Also, they rarely get caught up in the same kind of simplistic, low-level, gossipy drama that other females often do. Alpha-Women don't have to "create" drama to the same degree, because they keep themselves busy, and their lives are already interesting. Sure, women are still women, and hence emotional creatures, but at least the Alphas have more important things to worry about most of the time.

As for women wanting to "marry up"...well, sure--a lot of them do. But the Alpha-Chicks are FAR more interested in how you make them feel. For one, they already have status and financial stabilty--as long as you're a responsible, motivated man who takes care of his own business, they're not necessarily going to look down on you. The problem is that many guys lose their confidence when talking to a woman like this, feeling inadequate, as if their role is being threatened. And since women sense confidence (or lack thereof) instantly, they subsequently DISQUALIFY these guys instantly.

The Alpha-Woman is still a WOMAN, so she's mainly interested in finding a guy who's not intimidated by her, and who's not afraid to put her in her place. If you act comfortable and confident around her, and don't treat her like she's superior, your chances with the Alpha-Woman skyrocket, because in her world, you're a rare commodity.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by al77
Because she instictively wants to date and marry up. Many men feel that and avoid high income women. Most men know that - relationship with A-women will lead nowhere, since it could be only her temporary relationaship untill she finds somebody from her own "money class" or higher.

These must be the wh0res that understandably frustrate so many guys in this forum. However, wouldn't it be easier to just ovoid these types of women?

It may be difficult for some guys to avoid these women since they attract them with their own actions. These are the guys that feel that they have to wear designer clothing, drive expensive cars, take women out on expensive dinners even on their very FIRST date! If that's the type of bait they are laying, what else would they expect to catch?

I said it before and I'll say it again, the more that you expect women to be a specific way, the more you will find it to be true. But understand that it works against you. If all you perceive is women being looters who are never satisfied, that is all you will ever find. As someone said in another post, you might as well give up on women altogether and stop wasting your time with them since the only ones you ever come across aren't worth the time or the effort because they are going to leave you anyway.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia

1.These must be the wh0res that understandably frustrate so many guys in this forum. However, wouldn't it be easier to just ovoid these types of women?

2. It may be difficult for some guys to avoid these women since they attract them with their own actions.

3. These are the guys that feel that they have to wear designer clothing, drive expensive cars, take women out on expensive dinners even on their very FIRST date! If that's the type of bait they are laying, what else would they expect to catch?

4. If all you perceive is women being looters who are never satisfied, that is all you will ever find. As someone said in another post, you might as well give up on women altogether and stop wasting your time with them since the only ones you ever come across aren't worth the time or the effort because they are going to leave you anyway.

1. Are you saying those who want to marry up are wh0res? All women want to marry up: A or not A... decent and wh0res.
There is no woman in the world who wants to marry down.

2. Avoid who? All women?.. well...you concluded it below. Funny.

3. What you said is correct. But "marry up" is not about teh bait, money or expensive clothes. It is about the feeling of being worth.. or at least equal. She doesn't need that money... but if he earns twice less than she does without a potentila of growing up to her level.. she sees him as "not worthy" for a LTR. If he is fun to date, sure she may date him. For a short time. Ater a good match will show up, she'll immediately switch bfs.

4. It has alway been like that: trading money for sex. If a guy fails to show money (i..e his job, status, not to buy her stuff... she doesn't need that much) than she doesnt see him as a potential LTR partner. She may see him as a lover, fun guy to have sex with, a friend... but not as a long term partner.

So that somebody said a right thing: logically speaking it is very inefficient - men should give their money, work their azzez off to get a decent puzzy. It doesn't make much sense...as many many things do not in our lifes.

 

[Ricky]

I'm in a job now where I can interact with many doctors.

Many of the young residents are females. I wouldn't be opposed to hooking up with one.

There is one in particular...

Hmm. Financial security. I do pretty well now, but she will make close to $300,000 a year not bad.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
Sounds like you're taking this personally and I wasn't trying to torch anyone's button's (this time).

This thread doesn't have anything to do with feminism; it's about a man's choice to date an Alpha-Woman. And about intimidation, although you may not feel intimidated by these women, there's an abundance of men that do. Live with it.

But that does bring up the question about why you wouldn't marry one until you were in a higher income bracket?

1) No, not really. In reality, I'm explaining that intimidation is not the main factor. Until I hear a bunch of guys come out and admit that they are intimidated by alpha women, I am going to call it an assumption by those who like alpha women, or by the alpha women and feminists themselve.

2) Feminism was in reference to the "intimidation" thing. Who is it that is/was most vocal in crying about men being scared of successful women? Feminists.

3) If I can't afford a house yet, I'm not going to bother renting one just for me and my wife, especially in California's rental market. And I'm not going to buy a house of my own before I'm positive that the mortgage is not going to hamstring any investment property plans.

It's not like I plan to take a long time on this, either; I'm currently trying to transfer to become a car salesman at the dealership I currently work at (right now I am a lot attendant), and if that happens, I could start buying investment properties as soon as a month or two later. For all I know, I could end up being in the 6 or 7 figures within the next two years.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Ricky
I'm in a job now where I can interact with many doctors.
Many of the young residents are females. I wouldn't be opposed to hooking up with one.
Hmm. Financial security. I do pretty well now, but she will make close to $300,000 a year not bad.

Ricky, how long you think a relationship with $300k girl will be?
A day? A Month?

If it is ok with you - then it is fine of course. But I personally cannot go for a girl if I see that she is gonna switch to somebody else real soon.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
1) No, not really. In reality, I'm explaining that intimidation is not the main factor. Until I hear a bunch of guys come out and admit that they are intimidated by alpha women, I am going to call it an assumption by those who like alpha women, or by the alpha women and feminists themselve.

Good point. Maybe we just have to clarify why some man are intimidated?

a) they feel they earn much less than she does, so his role as man in a relationship is somewhat odd.

b) some may feel that A-woman usually wants a guy from at least of her "money-status class". She may date other men too, but only for a short time. So some men just dont want to start that short relationship: why bother? she'll eventually go for somebody more well-off, or higher status anyway.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by al77
Good point. Maybe we just have to clarify why some man are intimidated?

a) they feel they earn much less than she does, so his role as man in a relationship is somewhat odd.

b) some may feel that A-woman usually wants a guy from at least of her "money-status class". She may date other men too, but only for a short time. So some men just dont want to start that short relationship: why bother? she'll eventually go for somebody more well-off, or higher status anyway.

Why does it seem that you are basing your ideas about relationships on how much a man can buy a woman? As if a man's sole purpose is to make money for her? And no matter how much you make, she will leave you for someone else who could make more. If that was the case, only billionaires would get women. And if you do feel that way, maybe it would be best to focus on more financial endeavors instead of DJ skills.

The fact is if all you can offer a woman is money you run the risk of attracting only women that are looking for someone that can offer them that. It those relationships a man runs the risk for being dumped for someone who has more just because he has nothing else to offer. Why should she stick around if that was the case? Were you in a relationship like that?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
Why does it seem that you are basing your ideas about relationships on how much a man can buy a woman? As if a man's sole purpose is to make money for her?

And no matter how much you make, she will leave you for someone else who could make more. If that was the case, only billionaires would get women.

He doesn't have to buy her anything. It is not about stuff he buys, you are right.

He just has to be in her money\status category. She wants that feeling "I got a decent man" that because of her instincts translates into "I got a decent provider". Does she need a provider? No, not at all.

It is obvious that A-women do not need any providers or his money or his stuff. She just wants _to not marry down_! thats a turn off. It is deeply rooted in all women "not to marry down".

She wants the feeling of security, i.e. the feeling of power, i.e. the feeling of money and\or status.
If her own status is significantly higher then his, he should compensate his lack of status\money with something incredible.
It is possible, yes. But will she consider him as good long term partner if he doesn't meet the basic women requirement?
He doesn't make her feel secure. Again it is not abouthow much he makes...or how much he can buy. It might be decent $70k
and she with her $200k will not consider him secure.
So it is not really about money. It is about her feelings based on her instincts.

 

[JackPrescott]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The new trophy wife (or girlfriend): Alpha-Women

Originally posted by al77
The problem is women want to marry up, not down.
If she has PhD, you need to have something at least similar..if she earns $100k your meagery $50K won't let you get her.
Dating - yes. (You pay for dinner and give her lots of attention)
Anything long term? Unlikely.

Welcome to the wonderful world of dating!

 

[Desdinova]

The Alpha-Woman is still a WOMAN, so she's mainly interested in finding a guy who's not intimidated by her, and who's not afraid to put her in her place. If you act comfortable and confident around her, and don't treat her like she's superior, your chances with the Alpha-Woman skyrocket, because in her world, you're a rare commodity.

BANG! Someone hit this one on the head.

I'm with an A-woman. I've been with her for damn near 3 years. She's got a decent job, she's independant, interesting, fun, pretty much everything I wanted in a woman. However, she knows I'm not intimidated by her, nor will I ever be. Every other guy I've seen interact with her is DEFINATELY intimidated by her.

Here's where one problem comes in... Shes a bit TOO independant and it can be difficult to get her to work WITH me. She's a typical woman who will come up with some complicated plan, and when I try to simplify it, she's still convinced her way is the best. However, she'll still turn to me to make the decisions.

A-women are a bit different to work with than your average secretary or waitress, but there's a lot more positives than negatives. They're much more emotionally stable, and they're not afraid to take on something new and progress in their life.

 

[Hemingway]

Funny... I was thinking about this just today and came here to post about it.

I, too, am dating an alpha-woman. Sometimes I think the world would be just a little bit better if more men thought and acted a little more like women and if more women thought and acted a little more like men (Mars / Venus).

However, in this relationship I sometimes feel like a sex object (no complaints).

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Welcome to the Alpha-Woman daters club guys. Interesting enough that so far 80% of the voters would date an alpha woman in some form or another. And yes, Gravyboat hit the nail on the head about what type of guy alphas want. Des also brings up several good points and challenges with dating them. It does take a bit more fortitude to date them than typical women, but it can definitely be worth the effort.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Sorry, but this is the biggest lie ever to be floated out by the 'Today's Woman' crowd. Men could care less what a woman earns or what she does to earn it - it's simply not a factor in attraction for us - we don't take a woman's status or wealth into consideration, all she has to be is hot. That is a guy's one condition for intimacy, physical attraction. She's gotta be hot - whether she makes six figures or is in the pit of poverty is irrelevant in attraction. Oprah and Star Jones' husbands still have to get aroused, and all the money in the world wont be any better an aphrodesiac.

Status, wealth and the other rewards that result from 'professional' life are conditions women have for men in attraction. That's not to discount men being physically attractive or other conditions, but women have far more conditions for their intimacy than men, and these conditions are predicated on characteristics that prove a man as a good provider for her and any future offspring's security. These male characteristics (or sometimes just the prospects of a man attaining them) are defined by women as having value and are therefore attractive. Attractive enough to make a man with these qualities one to be competed over with other women. Women define what is masculine, they define what male traits have value for their investment of intimacy. Men define what is feminine, they define what female traits have value for their investment of their provision of security and meeting the condition criteria women place on them for their intimacy.

Women in the professional realm would like the conditions for attraction to be predicated upon their professional status (wealth), individual merit and/or aspects their personal integrity, and a whole list of esoteric qualities, but they still fight against men's basic impulses - she's-go-to-be-hot! If a woman is attractive a man is more than happy to have her foot the bill regardless of comparative incomes, it's just icing on the cake for us, but this is analagous to a woman who marries a rich guy who also happens to be good looking.

The 'Today's Woman' crowd love to use this pseudo-fear that men are expected to have in response as to why guy's ought to be ashamed of themselves for basing their attraction of the physical by blaming it on 'men's fragile egoes' or how they 'feel threatened by professional women'. It comes down to an expectation and entitlement from their 'professionalism' that men should redefine their own attraction based on what women find attractive in the masculine.

The ideology then grinds it's teeth at the men 'qualified' to date professional women for having a tendency to hit on women far younger, less 'powerful' and (surprise) generally in much better physical shape than the 'professional' they should be dating. For this they're called 'infantile', 'immature', or the behavior is regarded as a character flaw, or a desire to relive his youth with a 'trophy wife' - interesting that this term should come from the same faction to complain about the evils of objectifying women. All the man is doing is following his primary impulse, she has to be hot!

As most women bemoan, men have a tendency to see women as sex objects in attraction. Women have a tendency to see men as success objects. The problem with this 'professional woman' mythology is that professional women want to be success objects, but nature keeps confounding their efforts.

Now, all of that said, if a woman's choice is to enter the public realm and pursue a career in the same fashion that men have for years, more power to her. Great, you go girl, so long as they understand the responsibilities and liabilities of doing so. They should also thoughroughly understand that men will define what is attractive for them, not women, professional or otherwise.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
Why does it seem that you are basing your ideas about relationships on how much a man can buy a woman? As if a man's sole purpose is to make money for her? And no matter how much you make, she will leave you for someone else who could make more. If that was the case, only billionaires would get women. And if you do feel that way, maybe it would be best to focus on more financial endeavors instead of DJ skills.

The fact is if all you can offer a woman is money you run the risk of attracting only women that are looking for someone that can offer them that. It those relationships a man runs the risk for being dumped for someone who has more just because he has nothing else to offer. Why should she stick around if that was the case? Were you in a relationship like that?

Not sure if that is directed toward me or not, but my wanting to hold off until I'm closer to my career/real estate goals has nothing to do with how I want to be seen by women. I would get into a relationship before then - but I would not get married at a time when it put me in a position that gave me enough financial responsibilities to set me back a number of years. I want to be as financially independent as possible until I start buying and selling and/or renting out properties, and by the time I start doing that, more financial responsibilities should be no problem whatsoever.