The most frustrating part of this game...

[Mike32ct]

I think the most frustrating part of this game is not really knowing what the actual problem is. Let's say a guy is consistently striking out with women.

Friends and other community guys both online and in person can give some helpful advice, but everyone has their own theory. For example...

1. You gotta fix that hairstyle.
2. You gotta be more confident.
3. You gotta be more indifferent.
4. You gotta work out more.
5. You gotta get rejected more.

Well you get the point. Certainly, in many cases, it could well be a combination of factors. But using something like an 80/20 rule, it's probably fair to say that there is ONE thing wrong that is responsible for MUCH of the problem. But you might never know exactly what it is.

I've been in a dry spell for about 14 months now. I'm running my game the same way as before when things were going great, but this time I keep hitting brick walls. I posted a pic briefly and got some good feedback, so I doubt looks are the issue. I'm just at a loss. I imagine this will pass, but it's frustrating not knowing the real problem, if indeed there is one.

 

[rhcp83]

Hey man, I saw your pics, too, and you look good, better than the pics of most of the guys on here that claim they get "HB9.5s" lmao. The problem is I guess, no one can say without seeing you in person. And likely the problem isn't you, it's that woman are unpredictable and aren't chasers. It truly is a numbers game. Unless you look like Ryan Reynolds/ have fame/money/a DJ/in a band that gigs, Dolph Lundgren's body, women don't approach or chase guys.

Most people meet, even for just casual dating or sex, through mutual friends/some common event/work/introduced somehow/at a bar.

 

[tomato]

you say girls dont chase - but isnt that the whole point of what we do here? f girls didnt chase we would theoretically not be getting with any girls because thats all that we do here - bait girls to chase! its the whole point!

atm had great date slightly slow f-close with girl (she was a bit odd - check out my thread) despite asking loads of times "when are we going to see each other" now she hasnt texted me since friday morning

 

[runner83]

Mate, 14 months is a bloody long dry streak.

Didn't see your pic when ya posted it, but if the forum generally decided that looks wasn't an issue then might be something else?

Can't say what without specific examples of your interactions.

Generally, getting with a women consists of a number of specific steps: (not of all may apply depending on where you meet her):

1) Meet her for the first time
2) Get her contact details
3) Meet her for the first date after that
4) Go on other dates
5) Go back to either yours or her place
6) Fvck her for the first time
7) Follow up dates
8) Transition into a relationship if you desire

Generally my pattern lately is 1, 2, 5, 6...

Give some examples and we might me able to help you improve (PM me if you want).

 

[Htienvu]

the female species does not chase in the natural world, they are the chooser. The male species display their attractiveness and the female will choose whom she mates with. So it's up to us to show what we've got and let nature take care of itself.

So I say improve yourself to be the best you can be, take a relax attitude, show them your goods and let nature take it's course. (of course us guys are not patient enough)

 

[zekko]

the female species does not chase in the natural world, they are the chooser. The male species display their attractiveness and the female will choose whom she mates with. So it's up to us to show what we've got and let nature take care of itself.

You have a point, that is the natural way. Women are not generally aggressive enough to be the pursuers. On the other hand, if a woman is attracted to you enough, she will chase. A lot of "game" seems to built upon the idea of "flipping the script". Pook said he liked to have women chase him, although he had to put on 40lbs. of muscle to do it.

I think it's been fairly well established here that to get girls to chase you for your body, you have to be in elite shape. Not just good shape, elite shape, a body that is in the top 5-10% of guys.

It's hard for young guys to build enough value for girls to chase them, because they haven't lived long enough to gather resources or experience. For the most part, they are still a work in progress. I guess that's why so many young guys try to impress by being "players".

 

[marmel75]

You have a point, that is the natural way. Women are not generally aggressive enough to be the pursuers. On the other hand, if a woman is attracted to you enough, she will chase. A lot of "game" seems to built upon the idea of "flipping the script". Pook said he liked to have women chase him, although he had to put on 40lbs. of muscle to do it.

I think it's been fairly well established here that to get girls to chase you for your body, you have to be in elite shape. Not just good shape, elite shape, a body that is in the top 5-10% of guys.

It's hard for young guys to build enough value for girls to chase them, because they haven't lived long enough to gather resources or experience. For the most part, they are still a work in progress. I guess that's why so many young guys try to impress by being "players".

I can tell with 100% certainty at least based on my situation that getting in shape and being muscular WILL have girls approaching you...in fact when i go out with my buddies theycall it the "10 minute rule". Within 10 minutes of us being in a place a girl is gonna come at me...it almost never fails, and if it does they start noticing girls mysteriously hanging out by us even when we move to other areas...this NEVER happened to me before I got diesel so obviously there is a strong connection...

 

[wait_out]

Really? If you're an attractive guy, with good social skills, around a lot of women who'd enjoy going home with you without too much of a social stigma, you shouldn't be having issues.

If all of the above is good, you're probably just moving too slowly... that's the "killer instinct" that women like because it's fast, crazy, spontaneous, liberating, etc. And that can apply to ANY step of the sequence that runner83 gave as an example.

It's a little funny, because if everything else is sorted and you finally learn to push interactions fast when you know the girl likes you... it resolves easily, girls and dating become a playground, and you will be kicking yourself afterwards for holding yourself back out of habit. Hesitation will fvcking destroy you here even if everything else is in order, and you only avoid that when you're in the zone with girls and you sense intuitively when you should act vs. hold back. A dry spell will hurt this a lot.

There's room for error but IMO the better impression you give off, the more not doing what she wants (number, kiss, invite home) is going to sabotage her opinion of you. Its fairly obvious when you reach a "escalate or fail" point... it's all that supercharged, sexual non-verbal communication that people ignore by rationalizing about other areas. Flunking out of one of these is DISASTROUS if you're for the most part, a pretty suave guy.

This is why I like the surfing analogy... the most important part of the whole operation (the pop-up, then bottom turn) is time-critical and it doesn't operate on your schedule. Same with girls

 

[floydb25]

Hard to say without details and examples of what your interactions are like. Are you getting any actual dates? How do you act on them? What happens afterwards? Do you come on too strong? Any specific conversations you remember? Do you get any sexual advances, or make them yourself? Do women come on to you? Do they check you out? Any of them initiate or ask you out? Do you ask them out?

If you're just getting rejected without any dates, and no approaching on their end, then its probably a looks issue. I haven't seen your pic either. If you're getting low interest after the dates, its a personality or game issue. However, even if they don't like who you are - they will still want sex with you. Are they showing any signs of sexual interest? Flirting, touching, complimenting, straight out asking for sex... Anything? Are these girls crazy about you at any point? Do they talk about the sexual things they want to do with you?

Also, what kind of girls are you going after, and what are your intentions with them, with dating in general? What is your personality like vs these girls? What groups do you belong to? Are you sociable? Do people like you in general? Easy to make friends? Do you go out at all?

 

[Mike32ct]

I think you guys are spot on regarding the body thing. I have a handsome pretty boy face, cool hairstyle, and ok height (5'10"), BUT on an average/slender body, it's just not cutting it.

Will be hitting the gym aggressively.

This is why I believe there are no dumb questions. Sometimes we really need to be reminded of things that might seem obvious.

Thanks guys. Other thoughts are welcome.

Floyd and wait-out: I just saw your posts now. Digesting them... Thanks.

 

[btownbuck2012]

I think you guys are spot on regarding the body thing. I have a handsome pretty boy face, cool hairstyle, and ok height (5'10"), BUT on an average/slender body, it's just not cutting it.

Will be hitting the gym aggressively.

This is why I believe there are no dumb questions. Sometimes we really need to be reminded of things that might seem obvious.

Thanks guys. Other thoughts are welcome.

Sup mike. You're one of my favorite posters on here. Don't forget how far you've come. I remember reading something you wrote on here a while ago about how one night you danced with a girl for the entire evening only to have her leave with someone else. I think you said you even cried about it, which is w/e because we've all been there. Then, however, you brought up a girl who you fvcked later who told you that she wanted to get railed hard or w/e and you thought back to that girl who had danced with you all night only to ditch you.

my point is that you have what it takes and everyone hits a brick wall sometimes. I mean look how far you’ve come. You went from a 25 year old virgin to a guy who can consistently approach women. 99% of guys WISH they could do that. I know, I’ve spent a-lot of time approaching women at malls, bookstores, clubs, etc and it can be very scary. No shame in admitting that. My only hope is that you don't start hitting the gym out of anger that you've been in this slump. I've been there and it sucks. Make sure you're having fun with this whole pick up scene and not approaching it out of anger or with a chip on your shoulder. Make sure to keep it in perspective.

just my 2 cents.

 

[floydb25]

If the description of yourself is as you say - you shouldn't have problems with at least getting dates, approaches, sexual advances, compliments, favors, and female attention in general. You should also be given multiple chances, and have women crushing on you / letting things slide for a while. Where you might fail is in keeping someone interested, and sustaining a relationship.

I am exactly as you describe - minus 2 inches on height. Definitely not the most well-built person. There are no problems here. Where I failed in the past was in sustaining ones' interest, but getting interest and sex was never an issue. Even when I was too shy to do anything. Good looks matter a lot, and you say you have them... Don't understand... unless you're socially awkward, unapproachable, anti-social, weird, creepy, etc. Do you actually talk to any girls, invite them into your space, and ask them out? How do they act around you?

 

[ApolloCreed]

Women chase men. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise.

 

[floydb25]

Not entirely... They set up situations to get you to approach them. They're a little more subtle, but their interest is quite clear - unless you're insecure, have low self-esteem, and don't know how to pick up on their hints / are oblivious to the world / assume they're just being friendly / hate yourself.

Women fear rejection, too, and don't want to make fools of themselves. They always have a bit of defensive built up, so that they don't have to go all-out or be hurt by rejection. It's generally up to the guy to approach and invite her in, but she'll make it very easy for you to do so, and practically beg for it. Everything short of throwing a brick at your head, and telling you to ask her out.

Unless she's a *****... Then none of this applies. Other than throwing a brick at your head.

Edit: Mike, it won't let me respond due to the posting limit nonsense. Will reply ASAP.

 

[Mike32ct]

Sup mike. You're one of my favorite posters on here. Don't forget how far you've come. I remember reading something you wrote on here a while ago about how one night you danced with a girl for the entire evening only to have her leave with someone else. I think you said you even cried about it, which is w/e because we've all been there. Then, however, you brought up a girl who you fvcked later who told you that she wanted to get railed hard or w/e and you thought back to that girl who had danced with you all night only to ditch you.

Hey man. I like you too (no homo) and enjoy your posts. Actually, I get along with everybody here. I can't think of anyone I DON'T like on SS.

But anyway, yes, that's all a completely true story. Actually the "rail girl" was my last score before this dry spell lol. On the upside, she was the hottest one I ever pulled.

As far as the one that danced with me and then ditched me for another dude, that is where I learned that if she only lets you grind her backside all night, it's not a good sign lol. You gotta have some face to face grinding too, but that's another thread.

my point is that you have what it takes and everyone hits a brick wall sometimes. I mean look how far you’ve come. You went from a 25 year old virgin to a guy who can consistently approach women. 99% of guys WISH they could do that. I know, I’ve spent a-lot of time approaching women at malls, bookstores, clubs, etc and it can be very scary. No shame in admitting that. My only hope is that you don't start hitting the gym out of anger that you've been in this slump. I've been there and it sucks. Make sure you're having fun with this whole pick up scene and not approaching it out of anger or with a chip on your shoulder. Make sure to keep it in perspective.

I know what you mean. The gym is something I genuinely want to do anyway though. Plus I think it will be a healthy way to vent frustration.

However, regarding approaching, I do need to be careful about either not being too discouraged/deflated before an appraoch (due to the last few) and/or having an angry/frustrated chip on my shoulder.

just my 2 cents.

Thanks.

 

[Mike32ct]

I put my pics back up (temporarily) for the benefit of Floyd, Runner, Wait Out and any others.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75217535@N06

 

[wait_out]

You also want to think posture and mannerisms, eye contact, expressions. Your photo looks quite 'neutral' -- girls want to see a knowing smirk, and a sparkle in your eye. I probably rate 15-20% differently on attractiveness just depending on how I hold my jaw. If you can give a girl the right look (blue steel?) while you make some sly joke about lemon gin, interest just lights on fire. You should feel it, too. It's not all about the gym (though for perspective in mind I work out 4-5 times a week and my body settles at between 12-15% bf).

But, if you are getting indications you're attractive :
1) girls smile under eye contact
2) you catch them staring and their eyes dart off to some illogical direction
3) most respond positively when you open instinctively, before you can size each other up through eye contact games

don't get hung up on looks, just work on on them in the background of your regular week. I treat style, skin care, eating right, sleep, and exercise as life responsibilities which don't even touch women. In terms of dating/game/whatever, it's how you carry yourself, how you interact non-verbally, how you engage verbally, how and when you escalate, etc. Those are more decisive towards positive results with women.

The "responsibilities" help a lot for positive mindset -- if you know you have an attractive lifestyle, it will ground you positively. Lots of ****ed up people will bond through vices or social circle but if you're a stranger, I've found my success almost directly proportional to my mood. You NEED to have an engaging personality to turn attraction into interest. Again, like I said, interest dies quickly. Once you have some momentum going you either accelerate or you're going to get dropped.

My advice is use a 'triage' method here -- decide where you're weakest, then focus on that first. If where you're getting stuck is finangling her contact info, or approaching, or being forward, sexual, and an effective flirt, being more attractive is not where you should focus to break out of your rut. As Floyd was essentially saying, that means you need to identify at what point in the sequence you're usually getting washed out.

 

[evansblue]

Whether it's guys just starting out, or in your situation hitting a dry spell, one of the first things guys think they need to do is "bulk up". What people don't understand is that it's usually not the problem. It's not like the girl's going to be like "OMG he doesn't have huge biceps, I'm not giving him my number!" It doesn't work like that. There's usually some underlying insecurity.

Obviously I don't know you, so speculating would be pointless. But working out was never my forte. That stuff takes time to maintain, can cost money, and is valuable time lost in the field. Plus it would just garner a few extra looks. It's not like girls are going to be jumping into your lap.

I'm about 5'8" 145 lbs. Probably one of the skinniest guys here. Never been to a gym in my life. It's a non-issue.

 

[Atom Smasher]

You look a little sad and serious in a sense in your pics (MY problem, exactly). You're smiling in one, but only your mouth is smiling, not your eyes.

My downfall has always been my serious look, and I'm convinced it has been etched into me from a lifetime of physical pain. Nowadays I'm learning to give a bit more of a squinty look with a half-smile when I approach, which seems to be received better.

Wide-open eyes give a slight impression of nervousness or insecurity (as if you're expecting danger that can hurt you because you've been hurt before). You're a great looking guy and I think if you work on being a little less wide-eyed, and smiling with the whole face (not a big, douchy smile, just a gesture), you'll be golden.

Just my impressions. Take them for what they're worth.

 

[floydb25]

The most frustrating part of this forum... Is having a posting limit.

Mike: Great, thanks! I used the same service to upload some of my own. Hopefully the link doesn't foul up.

As for your pics: First, yes, cutting a few pounds would be good. But the problem isn't your looks per se - its how you present yourself. You look very plain... There's no attitude or confidence. I'd wager that you don't have much of a swagger, or any kind of ****iness. You don't have to be arrogant or conceited, but show the goods! Be confident, and don't be afraid to express it. Look happy, upbeat, exciting. You want to seem approachable and social.

Do you notice how hot chicks carry themselves? There's an element of ****iness in there. They grin, squint their eyes, walk tall, have those "do me" facial expressions... This catches our attention. They have sex appeal, and seem freaky. That element of badness... Sex is a dirty act in itself, so you want to present your sexuality in such a manner. Also, the way they dress. They dress sharp; wear nice clothes, and always look presentable. They also don't have problems with embracing their sexuality - with tight, short, bright clothing. People notice this stuff, and approach them right away. They stand out, and have confidence. That confidence is usually a result of looking good. It's all connected.

So, you want to present yourself better. I can tell your clothes are kind of plain. I like wearing polos and dress shirts... Clothes that have color, and stick out a bit. Nothing plain. I also like to show a little skin. If its a regular t-shirt - its going to be reasonably tight (but not homoish) to show the chest, shoulders... I wear baggy clothes, but sag them down so they can see the ass once in a while. Chicks love this stuff; makes them horny and intrigued. Gets to the core of their animalistic instincts.

But even with the look - you gotta have the confidence to act on your sexuality. Can't be all appearance and no show. You gotta flirt, seduce, act a little ****y, be confident... No fear. Don't just be friendly and nice.

Note: None of this has to do anything with being a jerk. Just have a bit of that bad boy edge for sex appeal and presentation purposes. You can still be kind, caring, attentive, etc. I am, and have no problems.

Let's try this linking business:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75992402@N08/

The one with the UNC sweatshirt is several years old, and blurry.