The more we learn about Cholesterol, the more weight learn we have been wrong on both sides

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
14,601
Reaction score
15,732
Intersting study...high levels of HDL increase risk for Alzheimer's and dementia it seems...

Basically cholesterol is turning out to be a lot harder to demonize or angelify than they once believed.

LDL isn't as bad as they once believed and HDL isn't as good as they once believed. There is far more interplay with the body and cholesterol than simply a number will suggest.

IMHO, this is another reason why Triglycerides have been found to be a much more important indicator of potential Cardiovascular Disease issues than Cholesterol.

 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
14,601
Reaction score
15,732
Funny though, you'll still see Cheeri-O's labelled as "heart healthy" and advertise "low cholesterol" like it's a good thing.

Even when the science figures out the answer, the FDA will take ages to catch up. We're still expected to eat 50g protein, 50g fat, and 340g carbs daily, based on a study where the scientists were funded by General Mills.
Doctors are taught something in medical school and will refuse to let it go no matter how many times it is shown to be wrong many times.
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
2,843
Reaction score
2,171
Best thing we can do is keep up with Master Thesis's coming out of universities, there are certain youtube channels that keep up with Thesis's involving working out for example, I need to find it again but I have 8 YouTube accounts and I'm lazy.

Some Thesis's are found to be wrong when better information comes out but most of these studies completed begin with some students Master Thesis on the subject.
 

RazorRambo24

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Messages
1,203
Reaction score
1,381
Age
32
Idk man i hope this isn't a cope for anyone.. Lets be honest, when you start eating tons of junk food, thats when your LDL's get high.. Theres def a correlation.. and it doesnt aid in anything good besides terrible circulation, risks of heart disease and stroke/plaque in arteries/atherosclerosis.

Its silly how people can discount decades/centuries of medical research and peoples health as evidence of what is true and whats not.. in a second by a nbcnews article. The media can toy with your mind like nothing if thats the case.

To think that high LDL and lower HDL is good for you is stupidity at its finest or just a huge lack of experience when it comes to peoples health/nutrition..maybe your own health. I mean isht i know i had high LDL's before. guess what? i had poorer circulation, was less vascular, put on a bunch of fat and felt sluggish. Why did it happen? 2-3 years of eating w.e the fucc i wanted, whenever. Pizza, Burgers, Philly steaks, Fries, Onion Rings, Tacos, Burritos, Wings, you name it. It was after finding out about my high cholesterol that i started to take dieting/nutrition more serious than i ever did before.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
14,601
Reaction score
15,732
Idk man i hope this isn't a cope for anyone.. Lets be honest, when you start eating tons of junk food, thats when your LDL's get high.. Theres def a correlation.. and it doesnt aid in anything good besides terrible circulation, risks of heart disease and stroke/plaque in arteries/atherosclerosis.

Its silly how people can discount decades/centuries of medical research and peoples health as evidence of what is true and whats not.. in a second by a nbcnews article. The media can toy with your mind like nothing if thats the case.

To think that high LDL and lower HDL is good for you is stupidity at its finest or just a huge lack of experience when it comes to peoples health/nutrition..maybe your own health. I mean isht i know i had high LDL's before. guess what? i had poorer circulation, was less vascular, put on a bunch of fat and felt sluggish. Why did it happen? 2-3 years of eating w.e the fucc i wanted, whenever. Pizza, Burgers, Philly steaks, Fries, Onion Rings, Tacos, Burritos, Wings, you name it. It was after finding out about my high cholesterol that i started to take dieting/nutrition more serious than i ever did before.
No, what it's saying is there is a balance that is important and that going too high or too low in one area because it's "good" or "bad" is starting to show consequences that weren't known about before...that is having your HDL too high isn't any better than it being too low.

Balance is the key like with most things in the body.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
The science hasn’t changed that much. The interpretations just get better as we learn more.

HDL cholesterol is an interesting data point. HDL on a population level has an inverse correlation with heart disease. Unfortunately, on an individual it is not “protective,” as they studied trying to raise HDL with drugs and it didn’t do anything. On the other hand, having low HDL and high triglycerides means you are insulin resistant, thus that HDL is dysfunctional. HDL cholesterol is a marker not a maker. It shows the amount of reverse cholesterol transport (carrying bad cholesterol back to the liver to be excreted).

LDL cholesterol is a surrogate marker for Apolipoprotein-B (Apo-B). LDL and Apo-B mostly correlate, but not always. Apo-B is a protein or “tag” on all non-HDL particles (these are atherosclerotic) in the blood. LDL on a blood test only measures the amount of cholesterol carried, not the amount of particles. Apo-B is the causal variable in atherosclerosis. Even if you are fit and metabolically healthy you will still develop atherosclerosis if your Apo-B stays high over the course of a lifetime. People who have FH (genetically super high cholesterol) develop clogged arteries at a young age and often die early of heart disease. This happens independent of smoking, diabetes, and other risk factors.

If you have high LDL, you won’t necessarily drop dead tomorrow but you should certainly get that to a healthy level as soon as possible. Physiologically “ideal” LDL level is 50-70 mg/dL, consistent with all of our cousins in the animal kingdom. The current guidelines are to get LDL under 100 mg/dL if you have no other risk factors.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
As for the why- that Apo-B / particle count number is important because too many of those particles damage the artery wall. Arteries are a high pressure plumbing system that is subject to a lot of stress. Atherosclerosis doesn’t really form in veins unless they are grafted to replace arteries in a bypass.
 

Obee1

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Messages
114
Reaction score
90
Age
56
Intersting study...high levels of HDL increase risk for Alzheimer's and dementia it seems...

Basically cholesterol is turning out to be a lot harder to demonize or angelify than they once believed.

LDL isn't as bad as they once believed and HDL isn't as good as they once believed. There is far more interplay with the body and cholesterol than simply a number will suggest.

IMHO, this is another reason why Triglycerides have been found to be a much more important indicator of potential Cardiovascular Disease issues than Cholesterol.

Agreed. There is a small but growing group of doctors and scientists, including cardiologist such as Dr Nadir Ali that believe cholesterol is not the cause of heart disease, but more a symptom. Dr Ali is proving his hypothesis every year with his own patients as he has many on keto, low carb high fat diets and improves their cholesterol and heart health. Notice I said improve cholesterol not lower cholesterol. He believes lipid ratios and LDL particle size is more important than lowering cholesterol. Too low of LDL and your body will have problems fighting inflammation and viruses. Anybody remember the study showing high cholesterol seemed to improve Covid mortality rates? I don't think keto or low carb is heart healthy in and of it's self. I think it's more about reducing sugar and other inflammatory foods. A Japanese study tested lipids and LDL particle size using 2 groups. One had bacon and eggs, the other had bacon, eggs, and pancakes with syrup. They drew blood an hour or two later. The pancake group's LDL was the small, dense and sticky type. The kind that sticks to arterial walls when under pressure in the heart. The other groups LDL was the big fluffy non sticky healthy LDL that doesn't stick to arterial walls when under pressure. This is why high blood pressure is another big contributor. Dr Ali and others believe metabolic diseases, inflammation, and high blood pressure cause damage to the arterial walls of the heart. LDL shows up just as it does to other parts of the body that need healing, and goes to work but becomes calcified as the extreme pressure and sticky nature of the abnormal LDL prevent it from doing its work properly. Notice LDL doesn't calcify in other parts of the body. Before I drone on more, I think the takeaway is reduce sugar, clean up the diet, exercise, and keep your BP in check.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
Agreed. There is a small but growing group of doctors and scientists, including cardiologist such as Dr Nadir Ali that believe cholesterol is not the cause of heart disease, but more a symptom. Dr Ali is proving his hypothesis every year with his own patients as he has many on keto, low carb high fat diets and improves their cholesterol and heart health. Notice I said improve cholesterol not lower cholesterol. He believes lipid ratios and LDL particle size is more important than lowering cholesterol. Too low of LDL and your body will have problems fighting inflammation and viruses. Anybody remember the study showing high cholesterol seemed to improve Covid mortality rates? I don't think keto or low carb is heart healthy in and of it's self. I think it's more about reducing sugar and other inflammatory foods. A Japanese study tested lipids and LDL particle size using 2 groups. One had bacon and eggs, the other had bacon, eggs, and pancakes with syrup. They drew blood an hour or two later. The pancake group's LDL was the small, dense and sticky type. The kind that sticks to arterial walls when under pressure in the heart. The other groups LDL was the big fluffy non sticky healthy LDL that doesn't stick to arterial walls when under pressure. This is why high blood pressure is another big contributor. Dr Ali and others believe metabolic diseases, inflammation, and high blood pressure cause damage to the arterial walls of the heart. LDL shows up just as it does to other parts of the body that need healing, and goes to work but becomes calcified as the extreme pressure and sticky nature of the abnormal LDL prevent it from doing its work properly. Notice LDL doesn't calcify in other parts of the body. Before I drone on more, I think the takeaway is reduce sugar, clean up the diet, exercise, and keep your BP in check.
Unfortunately, Dr. Ali and the Keto Dr’s are wrong on this, and are more interested in selling a diet plan for money than offering sound medical advice. Metabolic disease and blood pressure for sure influence heart disease but they are not causal. People with FH (genetically very high cholesterol) develop atherosclerosis regardless of blood pressure and diet. They also have mostly the “large fluffy” LDL type. Particle size is mostly irrelevant, since all LDL particles are small enough to invade the artery wall.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
14,601
Reaction score
15,732
Unfortunately, Dr. Ali and the Keto Dr’s are wrong on this, and are more interested in selling a diet plan for money than offering sound medical advice. Metabolic disease and blood pressure for sure influence heart disease but they are not causal. People with FH (genetically very high cholesterol) develop atherosclerosis regardless of blood pressure and diet. They also have mostly the “large fluffy” LDL type. Particle size is mostly irrelevant, since all LDL particles are small enough to invade the artery wall.
Put those people on K2 and watch it go away
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

BeExcellent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
4,732
Reaction score
6,728
Age
55
The body is an incredibly complex thing. Balance is key. The body runs on various feedback loops like insulin/glucagon, Cox 1/Cox 2, HDL/LDL etc. Some people are genetically unbalanced such as Type 1 diabetics and those whose livers produce extremely high abnormal cholesterol levels (you body makes cholesterol independent of diet), thyroid imbalances etc.

When you artificially affect only one side of a feedback loop, often bad things happen. Type 1 diabetics require insulin to correct a genetic imbalance, type 2 diabetes is the result of poor lifestyle and should be corrected through lifestyle rather than drugs. As an example.

But alas. People are lazy & would rather keep the bad lifestyle and take a pill. And that causes other problems.

Oh well.
 

Obee1

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Messages
114
Reaction score
90
Age
56
Unfortunately, Dr. Ali and the Keto Dr’s are wrong on this, and are more interested in selling a diet plan for money than offering sound medical advice. Metabolic disease and blood pressure for sure influence heart disease but they are not causal. People with FH (genetically very high cholesterol) develop atherosclerosis regardless of blood pressure and diet. They also have mostly the “large fluffy” LDL type. Particle size is mostly irrelevant, since all LDL particles are small enough to invade the artery wall.
First, I would like to apologize to followers of this thread. I’ve been at a conference a didn’t realize EyeBRollin’s misinformation, in response to my thread, has stayed here for this long with no rebuttal. I’ll do my best to keep it short. If anyone needs me to produce any research to back up my assertions just let me know.

Dr Ali doesn’t sell supplements. He’s one of a growing number of courageous Cardiologist that have had enough with treating heart disease based on the outdated lipid and cholesterol hypothesis started by Ancel Keys. Why is it still a hypothesis? This hypothesis is still followed by most doctors and the pharmaceutical companies even though the data and studies say we’ve got it wrong. A doctor selling supplements has got nothing on the big statin con. It's a multibillion dollar industry and has done nothing to improve heart disease risk. Cholesterol is a poor predictor for heart disease. Your LDL number even more so. HDL to triglyceride ratio is a better indicator but still incomplete. APO B a little better. One study showed that of the over 130,000 patients admitted to the hospital for heart attacks, 75% had normal Cholesterol levels based on todays guidelines. And almost 50% of those had what was considered optimal LDL levels, like less than 100 mg/ Dl. We’ve lowered cholesterol as a people almost 30% while our rates of heart disease continue to climb. Time to rethink the lipid and cholesterol hypothesis as the studies continue to mount. Some studies have been suppressed by lobby and peer groups whom continue to profit from bad or incorrect scientific conclusions. What ever happened to "Follow the science?"

Insulin resistance and diabetes markers are proving to be a much more reliable window into whether someone is at risk of a cardiac event. Sugar intake does much more damage to the heart than saturated fat. That’s a fact. This is why some are getting improvement with a lower carb, keto, or Mediterranean diet. Cholesterol does not cause heart disease! I’m surprised that a person who touts the superiority of measuring APO B can then turn around a say LDL particle size doesn’t matter. The reason APO B is better is the same reason LDL was a poor indicator for predicting heart disease. Not only does APO B become oxidized and attach itself to small dense and sticky LDL, it attaches itself to IDL and VLDL. I could go more into this but I'm trying to keep this relatively short given the subject matter. Please allow me to pull you away from the failing lipid hypothesis and try to put a bow on this.

Studies of the last 20 years and longer say this. The lining of the heart arteries (The endothelium) becomes damaged. The endothelium is much like an accordion with a nonstick surface) It can become damaged by things like chronic high blood pressure, free radicals, and wait for it……..glycation. (That’s glucose, same as sugar) As sugar rots your teeth it's just as hard on your heart. The damage itself becomes inflamed and oxidated. Now things begin to stick to the walls of the artery in the spot of the damaged nonstick surface. The collecting plaque is made of several things not just cholesterol. In order for LDL to stick and also get under the damaged endothelium in the artery, it must be oxidized. Oxidized LDL (small dense, and sticky is most susceptible to oxidation) often becomes oxidized through glycation. (There’s that stubborn sugar again. This small, dense, and sticky oxidized LDL then gathers with the other substances like rogue calcium to begin forming plaque. Non oxidized LDL (LDL A) does not contribute in any significant way to arterial plaque. Backinthegame78’s recommendation on K2 helps mitigate this rogue calcium. By the way, arterial plaque is made of way more calcium compared to cholesterol. Does that mean we need to lower calcium too.

Understand that cholesterol is hydrophobic. It can’t travel in the blood without a buoyant vessel. HDL, LDL, and triglycerides help transport cholesterol to where it is needed. These are kind of like balloons with a bit of helium. A healthy LDL, LDL A, has a very very difficult time becoming plaque. It’s too buoyant and too big. LDL B acts nothing like a balloon but more like a heavy sticky ball. LDL A would also have a very difficult time getting into and under the endothelium tissue.

Bottom line, LDL particle size matters. Especially to those with metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. If it doesn't matter please provide the research, preferably from the last 20 years.

If anyone requests, I have a cloud folder full of articles and studies. I don't claim to know or understand all. But I do recognize that the doctors and experts are clinging to a busted hypothesis that their egos and wallets refuse to let go of. And it's killing us. Below is a sample of 3 light reading articles and one study that may sway the few who read this, to at least consider the contrarian view. Part of being a man is having the guts to not always follow the crowd. I've seen enough convincing RCTs as it pertains to heart disease and I refuse to follow the crowd.

.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
First, I would like to apologize to followers of this thread. I’ve been at a conference a didn’t realize EyeBRollin’s misinformation, in response to my thread, has stayed here for this long with no rebuttal. I’ll do my best to keep it short. If anyone needs me to produce any research to back up my assertions just let me know.
People are free to believe what they want to believe. Unfortunately, the burden of proof is those that are contradicting the consensus within the field of cardiology. If you want to bet your life on quack doctors trying to sell you a Keto diet, good for you.

Cholesterol is a poor predictor for heart disease. Your LDL number even more so. HDL to triglyceride ratio is a better indicator but still incomplete. APO B a little better.
Wrong on the data and wrong on the interpretations. I outlined this clearly in my posts. Low-density lipoproteins cause CVD

Total cholesterol is not the main number looked for on a lipid panel. It's LDL cholesterol and non-HDL cholesterol. HDL cholesterol and triglycerides are markers, not makers. If you have a fvcked up HDL / Triglyceride ratio you have insulin resistance / T2D and are at increased risk. If you have high LDL and a perfect HDL / Triglyceride ratio, you will still get atheroscolersis. LDL usually correlates with Apo-B, but not always. Apo-B is on all atherosclerotic particles. ApoB is causal in atherosclerosis.

One study showed that of the over 130,000 patients admitted to the hospital for heart attacks, 75% had normal Cholesterol levels based on todays guidelines. And almost 50% of those had what was considered optimal LDL levels, like less than 100 mg/ Dl.
Which guidelines? The current guidelines are that LDL should be under 100 mg/DL for people with no other risk factors. For people with risk factors, or who already have plaque, diabetes, or heart disease, it needs to be under 70 mg / Dl. Not only does the level need to be below those values, you need to keep it there for as long as possible. If your LDL has been high for 30 years and you lower it to a healthy level, it does not undo what happened the past 30 years. Measuring someone's lipids at the time of heart attack tells nothing about what their lipids have been the previous 50 years of their lives.

Insulin resistance and diabetes markers are proving to be a much more reliable window into whether someone is at risk of a cardiac event.
Of course. That does not mean they are causal. IR/ T2D also strongly correlates with obesity, which has deleterious effects on blood pressure, lipids, and pretty much every biomarker you can think of. In other words, a diabetic is usually overweight and has terrible lipids across the board.

Sugar intake does much more damage to the heart than saturated fat.
Does not make saturated fat healthy. Saturated fat downregulates the LDL receptors on the liver. In laymen's terms, that means it reduces the body's ability to clear those LDL particles out of the blood. Guess where those particles end up?

I am not pro-sugar. Replacing sugar with saturated fat may be an improvement for most people. It does not make saturated fat a good choice. It simply means it is better than sugar. We are better off replacing saturated fat for unsaturated fat and complex carbohydrates that have their natural fiber content in-tact.

That’s a fact. This is why some are getting improvement with a lower carb, keto, or Mediterranean diet. Cholesterol does not cause heart disease!
You will get improvement on any diet that dumps white sugar and ultra processed junk food. The Mediterranean diet is a low saturated fat diet!

I’m surprised that a person who touts the superiority of measuring APO B can then turn around a say LDL particle size doesn’t matter. The reason APO B is better is the same reason LDL was a poor indicator for predicting heart disease. Not only does APO B become oxidized and attach itself to small dense and sticky LDL, it attaches itself to IDL and VLDL.
LDL particle size does not matter. People with FH (familial hypercholesterolemia) have mostly large-buoyant LDL particles. They also are dead by 40 if they don't get aggressive lipid lowering treatment. All LDL particles can invade the artery wall. There can be some discordance between LDL and Apo-B if your LDL is at a borderline healthy level (100-120) and you have mostly large particles. Beyond that, you won't find a cardiologist or lipidologist that thinks an LDL of >130 will be healthy even if it is mostly large fluffy LDL.

Studies of the last 20 years and longer say this. The lining of the heart arteries (The endothelium) becomes damaged.
It becomes damaged due to LDL particles invading the artery wall.

The endothelium is much like an accordion with a nonstick surface) It can become damaged by things like chronic high blood pressure, free radicals, and wait for it……..glycation. (That’s glucose, same as sugar) As sugar rots your teeth it's just as hard on your heart. The damage itself becomes inflamed and oxidated. Now things begin to stick to the walls of the artery in the spot of the damaged nonstick surface. The collecting plaque is made of several things not just cholesterol. In order for LDL to stick and also get under the damaged endothelium in the artery, it must be oxidized. Oxidized LDL (small dense, and sticky is most susceptible to oxidation) often becomes oxidized through glycation. (There’s that stubborn sugar again. This small, dense, and sticky oxidized LDL then gathers with the other substances like rogue calcium to begin forming plaque. Non oxidized LDL (LDL A) does not contribute in any significant way to arterial plaque. Backinthegame78’s recommendation on K2 helps mitigate this rogue calcium. By the way, arterial plaque is made of way more calcium compared to cholesterol. Does that mean we need to lower calcium too.
High blood pressure, high blood sugar, and inflammation are all factors that exacerbate the process. However, if your LDL is only 40, you still aren't going to be laying plaques. Atherosclerosis does not happen at an LDL level <70. Hence, why it is the target level for diabetics.

Understand that cholesterol is hydrophobic. It can’t travel in the blood without a buoyant vessel. HDL, LDL, and triglycerides help transport cholesterol to where it is needed. These are kind of like balloons with a bit of helium.
Correct. That is why it is carried via lipoproteins.

A healthy LDL, LDL A, has a very very difficult time becoming plaque. It’s too buoyant and too big. LDL B acts nothing like a balloon but more like a heavy sticky ball. LDL A would also have a very difficult time getting into and under the endothelium tissue.

Bottom line, LDL particle size matters. Especially to those with metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. If it doesn't matter please provide the research, preferably from the last 20 years.
This is where your explanation falls apart. All LDL particles are small enough to invade the endothelium. And when those larger particles do get into the wall, they contain more cholesterol. Particle size is largely a distraction. The number of LDL particles, which is reflected by Apo-B (all atherosclerotic particles contain Apo-B), is what to focus on.

If anyone requests, I have a cloud folder full of articles and studies. I don't claim to know or understand all. But I do recognize that the doctors and experts are clinging to a busted hypothesis that their egos and wallets refuse to let go of. And it's killing us.
I guarantee most cardiologists are not trying to kill you.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
Good thread. The body also needs the so called "bad" cholesterol dont demonize it.
The question is.. how much?

As an infant (the fastest rate of growth), LDL is about 30 mg/Dl. Across the animal kingdom, our mammalian cousins top out at 50-70 mg/Dl. Atherosclerosis in humans does not happen when LDL is <70 mg/Dl.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
What about LDL in relation to hsCRP, fasting insuline, triglycerides, HDL? Dont you think its more about the whole picture?
See my post above. Those other metrics are all markers but are non-causal. If you are a fat diabetic with genetically very low LDL cholesterol, you will have 99 problems but heart disease won’t be one of them. For hsCRP, statins lower this value as well even though the primary target is lower lipid production in the liver.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
14,601
Reaction score
15,732
The question is.. how much?

As an infant (the fastest rate of growth), LDL is about 30 mg/Dl. Across the animal kingdom, our mammalian cousins top out at 50-70 mg/Dl. Atherosclerosis in humans does not happen when LDL is <70 mg/Dl.
Atherosclerosis doesn't happen when people have proper intakes of K2 which are required to "carboxylate", aka, activate all calcium binding proteins in the body either.

In fact, in one study after 6 weeks of K2 supplementation, arterial plaques were lessened by over 50%.

K2 is crucial for heart health and to prevent calcification as you age, especially since the US allows everything to be fortified with calcium even as the entire reason for initially doing so has proven to be 100% false, which was to try and prevent osteoporosis in the elderly. It not only DOESN'T prevent it, it actually makes it worse in many situations.

There is virtually NOONE in the US who lacks calcium. The calcium is there, it simply can't get to the right areas because there is nothing to transport it there. So it goes into the soft tissues and blood vessel walls instead.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
What about nutrient deficiencies, how are they related? All drugs can cause stress on the liver and put you on more risk then you were before. Nutrients and resources are required for the liver to go through the phases of detox
You have to understand the concepts involved, rather than looking at the data in a vaccum. Atherosclerosis is a lifelong disease that takes decades to progress. If you have multi-vessel coronary disease there is nothing that can cure it. Statins at least will calcify the plaques (making them less likely to rupture aka STEMI), halt plaque progression and reduce inflammation. Statins are literally the first thing prescribed when you get out of the cath lab. By all means if a person wants to refuse a statin while on their near death bed in the ICU they are basically guaranteeing the inevitable.

It is getting into the realm of whacky conspiracy that people think a higher cholesterol level with no drugs is better than having an LDL of 70 on a statin. The data on it is overwhelming.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,643
Age
35
Atherosclerosis doesn't happen when people have proper intakes of K2 which are required to "carboxylate", aka, activate all calcium binding proteins in the body either.

In fact, in one study after 6 weeks of K2 supplementation, arterial plaques were lessened by over 50%.

K2 is crucial for heart health and to prevent calcification as you age, especially since the US allows everything to be fortified with calcium even as the entire reason for initially doing so has proven to be 100% false, which was to try and prevent osteoporosis in the elderly. It not only DOESN'T prevent it, it actually makes it worse in many situations.

There is virtually NOONE in the US who lacks calcium. The calcium is there, it simply can't get to the right areas because there is nothing to transport it there. So it goes into the soft tissues and blood vessel walls instead.
Calcification of atherosclerotic plaques is a good thing, not a bad thing. Calcified plaques are less likely to rupture. If you have plaque, you want your plaques to be calcified. Soft plaques cause STEMIs.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
14,601
Reaction score
15,732
Calcification of atherosclerotic plaques is a good thing, not a bad thing. Calcified plaques are less likely to rupture. If you have plaque, you want your plaques to be calcified. Soft plaques cause STEMIs.
So hardened and stiff arteries are good? I am going to ask my cardiologist that question and let you know what he tells me. Maybe after he stops laughing hysterically for a few minutes.

Also, what is it you think the cholesterol is actually sticking to many times? If you said calcium buildup, you'd be correct!

Tell him what he wins Johnny!

"Calcification of the arteries, also known as hardening of the arteries, occurs when calcium forms hard crystals in the blood vessels .

This can lead to atherosclerosis, a condition where fat, cholesterol, and other substances build up in the walls of arteries, forming plaques that can narrow or completely block the arteries and cause problems throughout the body."

You lost all credibility with that post.
 
Last edited:
Top