The more fake you are

[jhonny9546]

She doesn't need chaos, she is chaos. You're supposed to be the rock she can crash into.

You look too much in the wrong direction. You can give women high emotions without quarrelling.

Convert this to IRL.
In women-to-men interactions, women tend to be very playful and you are in control.
You don't smile or laugh as much as she does, but you can be very nuanced.
She tries to elicit that playful emotion in the conversation, but you remain in control, without feeling that emotion.
(Will She feel like she has not entered your frame?)

Or

In women-to-men interactions, women are often very playful and you are in control.
You smile like her or even more.
She tries to elicit that playful emotion, and you will respond to her or even initiate it beforehand.
(Will She feel like she has entered your frame?)

So which is correct behaviour for a men?

No, you're still catering too much to what women want, and not enough to what they need.

The difference is so big?

Dread game.

I've heard about it, is this a good thing for an LTR, not only with women, but with other people relationships too?
Does it comes naturally or you need to apply it like a "forced" behaviour?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

So which is correct behaviour for a men?

Neither. There is not 'correct' behaviour.
There is behaviour that attracts her and there is behaviour that repulses her, and how your behaviour affects her differs not just from one woman to another, but even one moment to another.
If you're grounded in authenticity and integrity (or what people here refer to as 'frame'), you will become more attractive to some women and less attractive to others.

The difference is so big?

Most people think they know what they want and think they know what they need. In most cases, they only scratch the surface. If you understand psychology, you know that what people want and what they need is often diametrically opposed.

I've heard about it, is this a good thing for an LTR, not only with women, but with other people relationships too?

The 'classic' dread game comes from making people afraid that you have the power to 'walk away' from the relationship. People will use 'I can get better' to make other people adjust to their wishes. While powerful, this is still a game to get someone to 'toe the line' and 'dread game players' will closely watch their (emotional) investment and the investment of the other players.
The biggest problem with dread game is that you're manipulating other people's emotions.
If you fail, you lose your power over someone. If you win, you lose your respect for the loser.
And ultimately you lose respect for yourself.

Does it comes naturally or you need to apply it like a "forced" behaviour?

Dread game is manipulation, i.e. learned behaviour.

 

[jhonny9546]

Neither. There is not 'correct' behaviour.
There is behaviour that attracts her and there is behaviour that repulses her, and how your behaviour affects her differs not just from one woman to another, but even one moment to another.
If you're grounded in authenticity and integrity (or what people here refer to as 'frame'), you will become more attractive to some women and less attractive to others.

We are getting there!
So somehow and there, you have to fake your behaviour if you find out that there is something that turns her on, but which you don't like to do?
I mean, "Just be yourself", never worked out for me. What is wrong about it? Are you saying JBY and that's it?

Most people think they know what they want and think they know what they need. In most cases, they only scratch the surface. If you understand psychology, you know that what people want and what they need is often diametrically opposed.

Very interesting.

A women that is dressing so well, making it to appear the best, to look extroverted, but in the meanwhile, she's so introverted, and in needs of validation? Would this be a good example or totally wrong?

The 'classic' dread game comes from making people afraid that you have the power to 'walk away' from the relationship. People will use 'I can get better' to make other people adjust to their wishes. While powerful, this is still a game to get someone to 'toe the line' and 'dread game players' will closely watch their (emotional) investment and the investment of the other players.
The biggest problem with dread game is that you're manipulating other people's emotions.
If you fail, you lose your power over someone. If you win, you lose your respect for the loser.
And ultimately you lose respect for yourself.

Hmm!
I can see this happened and happening to my friend LTR with his wife.
In particular, my friend started to be more "cold" and "bored" about his wife.
And As you said, She started to get mad, in the sense, She started to seek the areas of his life where She could bring more to him. She started to get fit, cook healthy food for both, make him the best and dirty sex they had in the past 10 years.
In the meanwhile, My friend is keeping his hand stable. It's not validating her, even She's showing him the effort to save their LTR.
As you've said, He feel that it's manipulating her, and He really doesn't know if this would be a good thing for their LTR present and future.
"And ultimately you lose respect for yourself."

Dread game is manipulation, i.e. learned behaviour.

This seems an "unnatural" behaviour. Is that a good thing to do in your life to women and others?
I see this very obviously in businesses, where the head or managers act like this.
But also in LTR.
I don't see this in my parents or sister LTR.


ps: sorry for my bad english

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

So somehow and there, you have to fake your behaviour if you find out that there is something that turns her on, but which you don't like to do?

I have fewer boundaries and inhibitions than most women I dated, but all sex / kink is consensual. So I don't do things that turn her on but turn me off. And vice versa.

I mean, "Just be yourself", never worked out for me. What is wrong about it? Are you saying JBY and that's it?

I mean, don't pretend to be someone you're not. Self improvement should be about becoming the best version of yourself, not becoming someone else.

A women that is dressing so well, making it to appear the best, to look extroverted, but in the meanwhile, she's so introverted, and in needs of validation? Would this be a good example or totally wrong?

In a way, but it's more like societal pressure versus private behaviour. Like strong and independent on the outside; pleasing and submissive in private.

He feel that it's manipulating her, and He really doesn't know if this would be a good thing for their LTR present and future.

If he feels bad about it, then it's not going to work out. He will feel bad about manipulating her, but also loses respect for her subservience.

This seems an "unnatural" behaviour. Is that a good thing to do in your life to women and others?

For me, it is, but I've always been dominant. It's not 'an act'. Women who gravitate to me are mostly submissive, but society tells them they need to be strong and independent. With me, they can relax and leave everything up to me. All they need to do is follow.
Since this is a natural dynamic for me, I don't have to force anything. And I respect women who are submissive to me.

For most men, 'dread game' is an act, but it's different if she knows that she has no leverage. I don't have to threaten to walk away, they know I'm not under their control.

 

[jhonny9546]

What you say it's really interesting but difficult to understand, at least for me

 

[parabellum]

The way I tried to make it less complicated for me: let’s imagine a line that marks the 50/50% power balance in a LTR. Then as a rule of thumb, I’m always striving to be slightly over 50%. Things usually break when you’re either too below or too above 50% for too long, so another lesson I learned is that giving back some power in exchange of balance has its benefits.

I imagine there will be people who will find comfort living at a different baseline balance (%), but I believe the analogy remains.

 

[BaronOfHair]

"Just be yourself", never worked out for me. What is wrong about it?

When what we're currently doing ain't bringing us anywhere closer to our goals, it's wise to both

-Modify some of our current behaviors

-Jettison others entirely, and replace them with more functional, healthy ones

Our contemporary fixation on "authenticity" ignores the fact that it's more "authentic" for human beings to piss and s-it on whatever ground we happen to be standing on at the moment, rather than using indoor plumbing. We(Well, those of us living in highly advanced civilizations anyway)altered our behavior though, upon realizing that "just being our natural selves" kept us in a state of near constant Cholera and E Coli

 

[BaronOfHair]

Dread game is manipulation, i.e. learned behaviour.

We so often pretend than manipulation is inherently immoral/evil, despite the fact that civilization itself would be impossible, if we weren't all manipulating each other in some fashion

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Oh now it's clearer!
And yes, as a men you want the "stoic self-control state" in your life! That's right.
So how could you live in an LTR with a women that need "chaos"?
If you have an LTR with "stoic self-control state" We know that the women will feel bored and leave.
I see so many LTR where there is a lot of argue which brings excitement which will explode in hot sex.
This is what an LTR should look like?
Basically an hero journey chart?
View attachment 12689

FFS work on moving out of Italy OP. They are the worst women in the world in terms of attitude.

 

[BaronOfHair]

They are the worst women in the world in terms of attitude.

Worse than Ghetto and Trailer Park chicks here in The US?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

We so often pretend than manipulation is inherently immoral/evil, despite the fact that civilization itself would be impossible, if we weren't all manipulating each other in some fashion

I'm not saying manipulation is bad. Manipulation can be used for different purposes, negative and positive.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

FFS work on moving out of Italy OP. They are the worst women in the world in terms of attitude.

Sounds like someone who has been snubbed by a spicy Italian.

 

[jhonny9546]

We so often pretend than manipulation is inherently immoral/evil, despite the fact that civilization itself would be impossible, if we weren't all manipulating each other in some fashion

I see it like living life by intentionally influencing your luck. For instance, if you want to attend an event with 100 people you like, you can manipulate your actions to make that happen. If you have a crush on someone, you can manipulate your actions to increase the chances of being seen by her and making a move. Similarly, if you're unhappy with your job, you can manipulate your time to study for a new profession.
In essence, I see it as manipulating our daily tasks and choices.

The idea of the 'dread game' with another human being, whether it's wife or cousin, is similar.
It involves manipulating events to achieve a desired outcome.
So if I see my wife reading all the time, and having no sex, instead of telling her "you should stop reading" "you're absent", etc etc, I could bring her a spicy romance novel and that would change the outcome.
This is just an example.

 

[jhonny9546]

FFS work on moving out of Italy OP. They are the worst women in the world in terms of attitude.

This is interesting! Why? Do you make a comparision with other women you had?
What about japanese women?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

What you say it's really interesting but difficult to understand, at least for me

If dominance doesn't come naturally to you, adopting a 'dominant frame' will work well enough to fool most women.

 

[jhonny9546]

If dominance doesn't come naturally to you, adopting a 'dominant frame' will work well enough to fool most women.

Would this make you arrogant or look like a "fake" *******?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Would this make you arrogant or look like a "fake" *******?

Yes, because most arrogance is undeserved confidence, which is often expressed with a lot of braggadocio.

Accomplishment-based real confidence doesn't need to be loud.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

If dominance doesn't come naturally to you, adopting a 'dominant frame' will work well enough to fool most women.

The above is most noticeable at kink parties where people are allowed / encouraged to display their dominance.
For instance, the real dominant people would mostly dress in a black T-shirt and black leather pants, but the faux-dominants would try to impress more by wearing 'authority uniforms' like a black leather shirt with epaulettes or a belt adorned with clips and hooks for all their tools: whips and chains and ropes. Real dominants are relaxed, faux-dominants strut around like little roosters.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I see it like living life by intentionally influencing your luck. For instance, if you want to attend an event with 100 people you like, you can manipulate your actions to make that happen. If you have a crush on someone, you can manipulate your actions to increase the chances of being seen by her and making a move. Similarly, if you're unhappy with your job, you can manipulate your time to study for a new profession.
In essence, I see it as manipulating our daily tasks and choices.

The idea of the 'dread game' with another human being, whether it's wife or cousin, is similar.
It involves manipulating events to achieve a desired outcome.
So if I see my wife reading all the time, and having no sex, instead of telling her "you should stop reading" "you're absent", etc etc, I could bring her a spicy romance novel and that would change the outcome.
This is just an example.

Another way of thinking about this:

As a man, it's vital to develop and maintain Sang Froid

If you act like this

Neither men nor women will respect you, and the latter sure as hell won't find you desirable


"Never Let 'Em See You Sweat" IS a trait that doesn't come naturally to most fellas, and one which we do have to develop within ourselves, this is true. We just currently live in an era where doing so is considered "fake", while having a f-cking meltdown the minute anything we find disagreeable occurs, is mistaken for "being more real"

 

[BaronOfHair]

Dread game.

Or, as The Man(Dread, that is)himself calls it: Hide The Mamba in The Kitty

https://www.youporn.com/watch/16981148/dredd-gives-freshman-sara-a-****ing-she-will-never-forget/