the issue of trust

[Luthor Rex]

As the Bible says (no, not the one for DJs, that OTHER one...),

"In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God."

Actually the Greek says "In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was..." you get the idea.

No I'm not making this **** up. In fact Christianity is the "religion of the Logos". Here is the new Pope in his own words: http://books.google.com/books?id=Y-...ts=6oG27bS7Aq&sig=J7BtAbsbpbewfU_iA_PusdDWHeg

The Victory Unlimited Sosuave Translation:

"If you want to REALLY know what something IS, pay close attention to what it is CALLED. And WHAT it is called signifies (is a sign, is a PICTURE, is a glimpse) into what it REALLY is. What you CALL something, IS that thing."

Not only knowing what the word means, but also knowing the etymology (the history) of a word can enrich meaning and understanding.

When I finally looked deeply into the history of my Catholic upbringing... well I'll never look at the bible or the events in it, or even the intellectual ideas of the church the same way again...

Anyone who is secular or religious and wants a deeper understanding of where it all came from really needs to understand the historical context as well as what the words meant in their original laguage. (Now I understand why they used to teach Greek and Latin in schools.)

OK well that was certainly off topic...

 

[jophil28]

Actually the Greek says "In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was..." you get the idea.

No I'm not making this **** up. In fact Christianity is the "religion of the Logos". Here is the new Pope in his own words: http://books.google.com/books?id=Y-...ts=6oG27bS7Aq&sig=J7BtAbsbpbewfU_iA_PusdDWHeg




Not only knowing what the word means, but also knowing the etymology (the history) of a word can enrich meaning and understanding.

When I finally looked deeply into the history of my Catholic upbringing... well I'll never look at the bible or the events in it, or even the intellectual ideas of the church the same way again...

Anyone who is secular or religious and wants a deeper understanding of where it all came from really needs to understand the historical context as well as what the words meant in their original laguage. (Now I understand why they used to teach Greek and Latin in schools.)

OK well that was certainly off topic...

John 1.1-6

 

[Mr.Positive]

You don't need to trust anyone to be happy in life. Just take whatever enjoyment you want out of whatever person you are with be it friend or lover and be happy. No I'm not saying use them or don't show them love. I'm simply saying don't trust them because they can turn on you and likely will if a good enough opportunity in their mind presents itself. Always be on your guard with everyone who gets close to you.

As much as I always state that happiness comes from within, and is something that we control...I disagree here.

By not trusting anyone, you are allowing others to have control over your happiness. Because, if they break their trust with you, they've got to you....

So, let's protect ourselves. Don't trust anyone!!

Bullsh!t.

Take risks in life and people. Trusting is putting your faith into someone, just use knowledge when you do so.

 

[STR8UP]

I don't trust ANYONE. The only person I have faith in and trust, is MYSELF. From what I've seen happen to others, you can't even trust your own mother or father, brother or sister. Now that is sad and disturbing.

I honestly believe my parents would do anything for me.

The rest of the world? Well, I have had women who would have jumped in front of a locomotive to save me, but ONLY at the time in my life where I was stimulating enough emotion inside them to warrant such a heroic act on her part.

With women, they will be loyal to you to the extent that you can manage to elicit feelings. As soon as you are no longer able to give her a "fix", to provide her with the "drug" she needs to make her feel fulfilled, a woman will dump your ass like a two week old leftover pizza and have no regrets about it whatsoever.

With other kinds of relationships it is different. Sure, people can violate trust and whatnot by telling a secret you told to them in confidence or undermining your relationships with other people, but the real sting is when other people are after your RESOURCES. Anything else you can walk away from. Someone pisses you off? Cut them out of your life. But if someone fukks with your livelihood that sh!t can have long lasting consequences.

 

[blueguy]

In today's world, you have to treat trust much as an airport would. You have the tests, the entry points, security checks... the more that is passed, the more you can let that person in. There is nothing wrong with making somebody pass certain tests to gain your trust. I know some people say trust should be automatically given; I still hear that all the time, but I respectfully disagree. Giving away your trust for free is much like allowing terrorists onto your airline. They're going to bomb the sh1t out of your plane, and it's going to go crashing down.

 

[guru1000]

Trust I think should be given like credit. At first, a minimum level is given. After showing consistency and integrity with payment after a few years, you extend a little more. After a 10-20 year period you extend alot of credit out to your lasting customer. But always remember, you cannot give it all. Why? Because in the rare case, the customer decides to claim bankruptcy, then what happens to what you extended out. You lose! And we are not in the credit extending industry to go belly up. We must protect our business foremost.

 

[Latinoman]

When it comes to relationships or issues that relate to women...the most I can trust a person is 90%. And that 90% went to my ex-wife as I trusted her with my kids.

Other than that...no one gets my 100% trust.

No one.

 

[DJDamage]

As someone said earlier, trust is self-interest. Even if you think you can trust someone or think that you are a trustworthy person you are still doing it for your own self-interest or someone elses. Whether it was emotionally driven, your ego or set of principles you live by, in the end of the day you come to terms with who you are and what you stand for.

Now in order to trust people you got to look at people's self-interest and what you can provide or potentially provide for them in the future that will interest them in remaining loyal to you. Therefore with women you got to make sure that they invest in you (when you invest in something and put time and effort into something, you don't wish to throw it all away so easily) and that you constantly provide them with a good emotional rollercoaster ride thus their interest in you shell remain high. Action not words are the telltelling signs that a person is worthy of your trust (unless they are truly a wolf and you won't see it coming). Therefore you should never trust anyone 100%.

 

[joekerr31]

When it comes to relationships or issues that relate to women...the most I can trust a person is 90%. And that 90% went to my ex-wife as I trusted her with my kids.

Other than that...no one gets my 100% trust.

No one.

heck, a person can't even trust themselves 100%, so how can they trust someone else 100%. we often don't do what is in our own best interest, so we can't even trust that what we think is the right thing to do is actually the right thing to do.

gotta love the human experience.

 

[KontrollerX]

"By not trusting anyone, you are allowing others to have control over your happiness. Because, if they break their trust with you, they've got to you...."

Nope.

By not trusting anyone they can't get to you which is the point.

Whatever they do will be something you were prepared for so instead of this reaction...

Oh my god this is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of the world!!!!! *cry, cry, cry* *suicide contemplation* *intense unrelenting unhealthy anger for many many months*

You have this reaction...

Yep, people just doin what they do, fvck em. Time to go find someone else to fvck or play friends with.

Personally I prefer the 2nd reaction.

"So, let's protect ourselves. Don't trust anyone!!

Bullsh!t."

Tasty condescention!

"Take risks in life and people."

Nope. Been there done that. Been fvcked over one too many times and once damn near got frostbite and another time nearly killed but those are different stories lol.

"Trusting is putting your faith into someone, just use knowledge when you do so."

Faith is uncertainty and the realm of the religious.

I don't deal in faith or things that are uncertain.

People are fallible. You can only ultimately trust yourself in this life.

As for knowledge that doesn't work either when it comes to trust as people who have the knowledge that a person has been their loyal childhood friend and trusted that friend in business matters have lost damn near everything when that supposedly loyal friend screwed them over. Think Str8up had a post exactly like this about a childhood friend screwing him over in business and I'm sure there are many many more examples of knowledge failing when it comes to thinking you know a person and then trusting them as a result.

The bottom line is even with all the knowledge in the world you cannot with 100% accuracy predict even the most seemingly loyal person's future actions. Many things could influence that person to turn against their previously held friendship ideals (if they ever had them to begin with) which always will make them too big a risk to ever trust.

So again I say have fun with friends and lovers but never trust them.

They are only human and are prone to screwing you over or robbing you blind if the situation in their minds calls for it and will benefit them greatly to do so.

But hey agree to disagree...

Trust away and have fun pulling the knife out of your heart or back when it fails you as trust always eventually does.

 

[PTC]

Whatever they do will be something you were prepared for so instead of this reaction...

Oh my god this is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of the world!!!!! *cry, cry, cry* *suicide contemplation* *intense unrelenting unhealthy anger for many many months*

You have this reaction...

Yep, people just doin what they do, fvck em. Time to go find someone else to fvck or play friends with.

Personally I prefer the 2nd reaction.

I agree with the 2nd reaction. I tried to actually do the 2nd reaction but me being the dumb ars nice guy took her back after she cried for hours and hours. And I WAS prepared because I knew she wasn't through with her ex husband and it was easier to deal with. Only if i had stuck to my guns and ended it there.

So I agree with KontrollerX. Even though you say to yourself you CAN trust this person you have to be subconsciously ready for anything and know that this person is capable of doing something like sticking the knife in the ole heart.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

At its core, trust has much more to do with you than the other person.

 

[ducaro]

If you are a greedy/materialistic/worldly person, nobody will trust you and you will not trust anybody.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

If you are a greedy/materialistic/worldly person, nobody will trust you and you will not trust anybody.

What???

 

[blueguy]

If you are a greedy/materialistic/worldly person

Everybody is greedy/materialistic/worldly...

Open your eyes.

But I guess the explanation for that topic is for another thread.

 

[ducaro]

Everybody is greedy/materialistic/worldly...

Ofcourse everybody is greedy/materialistic/worldly... IN JAIL! Neh, you can't be 65

 

[Last Man Standing]

Wow...Great Post JOEkerr,


Glad to see some Brothers in Arms on here with the NERVE to start threads like this one. And I'm also glad my fellow officers here have been willing to post in a thread here in the Mature Man section that DIDN'T have "How do I make her touch my wee-wee?" as it's subject heading...LOL



Now, back on topic.


Yeah, trust is an interesting thing. It is a concept that does NOT exist in a vacuum. And It can never really exist APART from some other concepts that are prerequisites----some of which, the very IDEA of them make SOME men uncomfortable because TO THEM----it defies their tentative grasps on the "versions" of logic and reason that they have learned from text books.

Trust is indeed an "issue". It is a byproduct of the existence of three things:

1.KNOWLEDGE
2.RESPECT

and

3.FAITH

I believe that TRUST, much like a river, flows (or shall we say "issues") forth from these three OCEANS. It has been my observation that in all things in life, whether it be your abilities, your car, your paycheck, or your WOMAN, there is a certain order of things.

But let's focus on just using WOMEN as an example:

First you meet a woman, and then begin the process of getting to KNOW her. This is where the KNOWLEDGE portion begins.

Secondly, now that you KNOW her, if you recognize her as having VALUE, you make a decision to keep her around because she has somehow differentiated herself from those women who DON'T improve your quality of life by her continued presence. And it is indeed BECAUSE of these perceived differences to other women that has given you PAUSE---have given you CAUSE to RESPECT them.

Now let us go a little DEEPER into the fray, soldiers. This IS an "Intelligence" operation, isn't it? lol

As the Bible says (no, not the one for DJs, that OTHER one...),

"In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God."

The Victory Unlimited Sosuave Translation:

"If you want to REALLY know what something IS, pay close attention to what it is CALLED. And WHAT it is called signifies (is a sign, is a PICTURE, is a glimpse) into what it REALLY is. What you CALL something, IS that thing."

So why does a woman who differentiates herself from other women of lesser or incompatablie qualities cause you to pause?

Because that's what the word "respect" actually means:

"RE" means "again". And "SPECT" means "to look".

So RESPECT means that you have been inspired to "LOOK AGAIN"...at this woman whom you have previously aquired KNOWLEDGE of.

Thirdly, when a woman has entered your life that you KNOW well enough to have earned your RESPECT, that's when you have amassed enough evidence to step out in FAITH that she will REMAIN a person of consitent enough character that you can now---------TRUST.

So yes, first comes the knowledge, then comes the respect, then comes an act of faith. Because at THAT point, TRUST has become something that you can then CALCULATE----and subsequently, decide it's WORTH the risk.




Peace...one day.

This is a very good summation VU


I only trust those who love truth and and hate a lie! They are principled people! Truth is the standard for trust!

The minimum standard for me to trust a woman is if she is a virgin - this shows she has principles and is true to her femininity - this is a minimum!

 

[blueguy]

Ofcourse everybody is greedy/materialistic/worldly... IN JAIL! Neh, you can't be 65

Do you not seek resources for your own survival?

Are you not of the world?

We're humans, and that means at our very core, we are looking out for ourselves and driven by our biological desires. Many people here - what are they trying to accomplish? VU, yourself, LMS. Everybody has tried to secure a woman in their life as a priority ahead of helping others less fortunate. Is that not selfish? Is not using materials to achieve that end means materialistic? How can you not be worldly? There have been those in the world like you in the past, and there will be in the future. There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[ducaro]

Do you not seek resources for your own survival?

Are you not of the world?

We're humans, and that means at our very core, we are looking out for ourselves and driven by our biological desires. Many people here - what are they trying to accomplish? VU, yourself, LMS. Everybody has tried to secure a woman in their life as a priority ahead of helping others less fortunate. Is that not selfish? Is not using materials to achieve that end means materialistic? How can you not be worldly? There have been those in the world like you in the past, and there will be in the future. There is nothing new under the sun.

I am with you blueguy.. and I can see where you are coming from.. it would also be pretty silly for me to disagree with you.. but I think its wiser to really define and set limits to what greed/materialistic/worldly means.

I'd also like to say we are different from animals. we can think.. relate.. feel... (i know animals can too, but you know its different.. their feeling is biological.)

I am not referring to greed as the egg sandwich you dunk down your throat every morning. You need fuel to survive.. and if you think thats greed, you are prolly right, but thats not the greed I was referring too

I would like to associate greed/materialistic/worldly with people who turn 'insensitive' to other people when money, 'betterness' or anything materialistic is involved. I'd also like to associate it with 'pleasure seeking' at cost of safety. For eg.. trying to attain more pleasure by not using condoms... which can lead to nasty stuff. You see the greed here...Not once did you think hey.. I have a penis that works well.. I have good health.. let me be thankful for there are the unfortunate who don't even have this. Let me be a little wise and accept a lil less 'pleasure' at the cost of being safe. Its setting limits for yourself.. being aware that all is not rosy. being sensitive. being careful. This is the greed I am talking about.

May be I did not come across well. I mean in some sense detachment.

This thread is really going far way from the posters intent. I shall stop.