The Importance of Perspective

[Duffdog]

Then you have so many women so why you whine so much about them ?

I wonder the same thing sometimes. How do you have so much time to post online if you are beating girls off with a stick?

 

[SXS]

How do you have so much time to post online if you are beating girls off with a stick?

I am beating girls with a stick ?

 

[Warrior74]

Then you have so many women so why you whine so much about them ?

I think if you use your eyes he said "WHEN" he was balling. He didn't say he was balling now. He said "having been rich, and poor". If you look at his past post he talks about how he was betrayed by people and was making his climb back to where he used to be. Reading is fundamental.

 

[SXS]

I think if you use your eyes he said "WHEN" he was balling. He didn't say he was balling now. He said "having been rich, and poor". If you look at his past post he talks about how he was betrayed by people and was making his climb back to where he used to be. Reading is fundamental.

That was not what I got from his post. Anyway, still, he was stabed in the back, well, who wanst ?

 

[STR8UP]

I am far from destitute, but I was hit with some major setbacks that had a HUGE psychological impact on me.

There was a period of time not too long ago where I felt like a beaten dog. I went from Alpha swagger to emotional basketcase practically overnight. And guess what happened? Women were no longer drawn to me like a moth to a flame.

This is yet another example of how I gained perspective. It was an eye opening experience to see the way women react to a guy who has hit a rough patch. I quickly realized just how "conditional" relationships are (with men and women).

 

[SXS]

I am far from destitute, but I was hit with some major setbacks that had a HUGE psychological impact on me.

There was a period of time not too long ago where I felt like a beaten dog. I went from Alpha swagger to emotional basketcase practically overnight. And guess what happened? Women were no longer drawn to me like a moth to a flame.

That had anything to do with an specific break up ? Or just financial problems ?

 

[Duffdog]

I am beating girls with a stick ?

No, not you. that was for STR8UP.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Then you have so many women so why you whine so much about them ?

And here lies the problem. Some of you guys are so beaten down you are just happy to have a woman.

When you reach the stage in your life where getting laid is no longer the problem then your perception will change too. The whole AFC mindset is one of securing sex at the expense of almost anything. Pride, hobbies, passions and staying true to yourself all go out the window the minute a HB7 swallows your load before she cooks you breakfast. The PUA is no different in my opinion. Sarging daily to score chicks. Their entire life consumed by *****. They determine their success by the amount of sex they have.

Sex does not bring you social success. Being socially successful brings you sex. That is the perception Str8up speaks of. Its a perception that comes with experience. AFC's wish they were the PUA's, while the PUA's dont yet fully understand that all they are trying to do is mimic social success to get laid.

I know where Str8up is coming from. I have been the in shape jock who had a lot of action in school. I have been the out of shape chud who had the exact same approach to life but had to work twice as hard when it came to banging broads. I have lived in places where average middle class in the west is considered very wealthy and seen the effect this had on women too. "Traditional women" who western men think will only care about your personality. I am now doing very well by western standards and western women react in much the same way that those "traditional foreign women" act.

The sad thing is that it does not matter how much you tell people this, most dont believe you because they dont want to believe you. Just like the AFC prefers his reality where soul mates exist and divorce is only something you read about, so to do many of the "PUA's" believe that status, looks and wealth are simply not that important.

My biggest problem these days is finding women worthy of my time. The more I have seen of them in action the more misogynistic I have become. I am jaded and there is so little to suggest I should be feeling otherwise.

I have made my peace with it though.

 

[Luthor Rex]

The more I have seen of them in action the more misogynistic I have become.

:yes: :yes: :yes:

 

[STR8UP]

When you reach the stage in your life where getting laid is no longer the problem then your perception will change too.

Exactly.

When you get to the point where you realize that you can take or leave women, the world is a different place.

The PUA is no different in my opinion. Sarging daily to score chicks. Their entire life consumed by *****. They determine their success by the amount of sex they have.

I've been saying this for awhile. I don't want my life to be consumed by women. I actually feel kinda sorry for these guys that seem to have only one real mission in life- to get laid. Seems like a big waste of time for the most part.

Sex does not bring you social success. Being socially successful brings you sex.

Social success makes a man. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's true.

I still struggle with some social anxiety issues. I am acutely aware of the fact that I could be 10x the man I am if I could get past this.

I have lived in places where average middle class in the west is considered very wealthy and seen the effect this had on women too. "Traditional women" who western men think will only care about your personality. I am now doing very well by western standards and western women react in much the same way that those "traditional foreign women" act.

This should have been in my original post.

EVERY WESTERN MAN SHOULD VISIT AT LEAST ONE "POOR" COUNTRY IN HIS LIFETIME.....(eastern Europe, Thailand, Philippines, Central America, Mexico, etc.) You have NO IDEA how different it is there. You go to some of these places and it's like instantly having the status of the head of a large company. People aren't going to be asking you for autographs, but the women look at you like you are some sort of god. It's a way that almost any man can actually experiencing the effects status has on women.

The sad thing is that it does not matter how much you tell people this, most dont believe you because they dont want to believe you. Just like the AFC prefers his reality where soul mates exist and divorce is only something you read about, so to do many of the "PUA's" believe that status, looks and wealth are simply not that important.

Rollo has touched on this before about how the PUA thing might get you laid, but it doesn't address the more important thing which is actually BEING that guy that women are magnetically attracted to.

The guy who gets his Alpha swagger from knowing he's built a multi million dollar company and has high status in his community that cause people to treat him differently. That's the kind of thing that makes "game" obsolete. Actually, I think the unstoppable combo is knowing a little about game AND being the guy who is at the top of the food chain. You can get and keep women (if you can find any worth dating!). You REALLY get an in depth look at women from this angle. The ruthless, competitive side comes out. They are exposed as being very opportunistic. And it ain't pretty.

The more I have seen of them in action the more misogynistic I have become. I am jaded and there is so little to suggest I should be feeling otherwise.

I have made my peace with it though.

I don't like to think of myself as misogynistic. "Disillusioned" might be a better term. It's a bit of a disappointment, yes. You have this idea built up in your head the way things are "supposed" to be, then you find out that the reality is that romantic relationships are actually adversarial in nature, where the woman is cooperating with the man only as far as it meets her own objectives. It kinda sucks, actually. But it's 100% TRUTH.

 

[drixsa]

only men who have been in the position of seeing women from many different angles have the perspective that allows them to know women for what they really are. The only two things that seem to give men the proper perspective are- 1) Game 2) Wealth/Power

STR8UP,

You choose to apply focus on females but what is the point of this "proper perspective" you speak of? (I don't know why no one has asked thus far...)
And I'm curious, what's the large scale goal for you? --In regards to life and the role of females within your life--

You say that:

I actually feel kinda sorry for these guys that seem to have only one real mission in life- to get laid. Seems like a big waste of time for the most part.

Does this sound a bit like projection to you? I agree 100% but why are you so focused on females and properly understanding the other gender and breaking 'them' down into a science implemented by 'proper perspective'?

I don't claim to be any sort of PUA, but I have experienced what it is like to have a whole room full of women at a party jockeying for position to be the one who ended up in bed with me at the end of the night. The bathroom strategics, the sharp words, the subtle glances, the not so subtle hand slap......until you experience something like that you really don't know women.

That's knowledge? Women are clearly attracted to you. They see value in you. They desire you and they try to get you. This says to me that your 'wisdom' of women is simplistic. Do you think males are superior to this? When we go out trying to meet, strategize, and work our 'magic' with females, are we any better? Should women or men be judged simply by how they go about pursuing whom they are attracted to? Would you say that's a fair setting to define who you are?...I know I wouldn't want to be judged simply by that.

Social success makes a man. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's true.

What do you mean by that? Why is that part of what defines a man for you? Why do care if you are liked by many or are popular in groups? I cannot see how caring about how others view me makes more of man. If anything it holds me back.

I don't like to think of myself as misogynistic. "Disillusioned" might be a better term. It's a bit of a disappointment, yes. You have this idea built up in your head the way things are "supposed" to be, then you find out that the reality is that romantic relationships are actually adversarial in nature, where the woman is cooperating with the man only as far as it meets her own objectives. It kinda sucks, actually. But it's 100% TRUTH.

Oh Please, both parties in the relationship have objectives, standards, deal breakers, etc. Both put their foot down on some issues and compromise on others. Sometimes the female asserts herself more, sometimes the male does, and vice-versa.

--"There are two different kinds of people in this world: those that divide people into two different kinds and those that don't."--

I've liked this quote for a long time, especially in correlation to this fine DJ forum of ours. When you try and break a person down it can be necessary to understand an aspect of them but trying to break down half this world? Your claims cannot help but be incomplete, my good Don Juan.

I cannot quite put my finger on it but your words give me are giving me a feeling that you developed some antipathy for females. Possible?

 

[fertileTurtle]

The thing with the wealth/power card is that women are responding to the alpha swagger that comes from having one or both of these. Aside from demonstrating value with words I don't know how you would go about employing some of this.

Rich and powerful men have a big advantage over the rest of us, because they can assert themselves and their will with way less fear of retaliation or retribution. I can't tell you many times I have had to tail off of a woman because a more powerful, stronger man has become offended that I have entroched on his terriorty. For example, who are you more likely to cheat on? A woman who is being persued by some chump friend of yours or a woman who is being persued by a powerful judge or a man who holds a leadership position at your work, church, or any organization you may be a part of. I don't think you have to be rich and powerful to be happy with your sex life, but the rich and powerful usually get the top draft picks.

 

[SXS]

The guy who gets his Alpha swagger from knowing he's built a multi million dollar company and has high status in his community that cause people to treat him differently. That's the kind of thing that makes "game" obsolete. Actually, I think the unstoppable combo is knowing a little about game AND being the guy who is at the top of the food chain. You can get and keep women (if you can find any worth dating!). You REALLY get an in depth look at women from this angle. The ruthless, competitive side comes out. They are exposed as being very opportunistic. And it ain't pretty.

I think this is mostly common sense. Of course, for example, in my country, footcall players(would "soccer" I guess for you Americans...) have a lot of status, and they often have blond cute wives. Same for samba "artists". EVERYONE KNOWS that they would never have those women if they were not sucessfull in their field. I really dont know why do you think you guys discovered gold. Anyway, those guys too get ugly divorces and get cheated on.

I still dont understand why some guys here seem to be so frustrated. What is your objective with women, Str8up ? I am the kind of guy who will probably never get married, and really, I am not concerned about geting women, because its easy, but in your case, what do you want from women ?
I asked this:

"Then you have so many women so why you whine so much about them ?"

The answer I got from hooligan was this:

"And here lies the problem. Some of you guys are so beaten down you are just happy to have a woman."

Well, not my case at all. I just dont see the reason why the attitude. Like I said, I dont want to get married. I will not give a women kids or a place to live. And I am always quite honest with women about that. What do I would have to complain about, that women are not perfect sex toys ? It seems to me that some guys are frustrated because they want something from women(like a LTR or marriage) but are afraid of long term consequences for their lifes.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

It seems to me that some guys are frustrated because they want something from women(like a LTR or marriage) but are afraid of long term consequences for their lifes.

guys are frustrated because they still have the 'mommy' complex. they think it is a woman's "Job" to take care of them, be submissive, clean up after them, always support them no matter if they are a millionaire or homeless. They have a set of mythical ideas of what a woman "should" do, and somehow they've developed a self deluded belief that just because they "want" a woman a certain way, women "should" behave certain way.

Then they realize that women are humans with their own ideas and agendas and strengths and weaknesses and shortcomings, and the only way to get from a woman what they want is to give her what she wants, on a consistent basis, in a fair exchange. This raises two very difficult problems for most guys:

1) They don't know exactly what they want from a woman, and

2) They don't know how to elicit from a woman what she wants and provide it in exchange, all in terms of her own covert language and behavior.

To become skilled at these two require a lot of self awareness, and a dedication to continuously improve your social skills. This requires putting your balls on the line over and over and learning from your mistakes and consistently improving yourself. Pretending you are a secret agent observer into the mysterious social behavior of women doesn't count.

Most frustrations, in any area, involve carrying around a bunch of "shoulds" in your head that exist only in an adolescent fantasy world.

 

[STR8UP]

guys are frustrated because they still have the 'mommy' complex. they think it is a woman's "Job" to take care of them, be submissive, clean up after them, always support them no matter if they are a millionaire or homeless. They have a set of mythical ideas of what a woman "should" do, and somehow they've developed a self deluded belief that just because they "want" a woman a certain way, women "should" behave certain way.

Then they realize that women are humans with their own ideas and agendas and strengths and weaknesses and shortcomings, and the only way to get from a woman what they want is to give her what she wants, on a consistent basis, in a fair exchange.

Change a few words around and a militant feminist could have written this.

The only way to "get" a woman is to display the traits necessary to attract her. The only way to KEEP a woman is to maintain a masculine frame.

To keep proper balance it isn't an "even exchange" in the sense that you and feminists would like to believe it is.

 

[ketostix]

guys are frustrated because they still have the 'mommy' complex. they think it is a woman's "Job" to take care of them, be submissive, clean up after them, always support them no matter if they are a millionaire or homeless. They have a set of mythical ideas of what a woman "should" do, and somehow they've developed a self deluded belief that just because they "want" a woman a certain way, women "should" behave certain way.

Then they realize that women are humans with their own ideas and agendas and strengths and weaknesses and shortcomings, and the only way to get from a woman what they want is to give her what she wants, on a consistent basis, in a fair exchange.

I don't think men are frustrated because they have a mommy complex and expect so much from women. Men tend to have one kind of love, that is, their romantic love and familal love has similar levels of integrity. With women it's like they have two kinds of love, their opportunistic and very conditional romantic love and then their familal love. But I diagree with the rest of your post too. If you give women what they want, they will use you and discard you. You hve to give them what they respond to. The problem so many men aree doing that and not demanding anything from women. If anything I would say men are frustrated with women for the opposite reason you posed.

 

[iqqi]

I am totally impressed with Keto's posts in this thread, first of all. Except that last post. ^^^

Second, the OP seems to be saying that Women have some ulterior motive, like they are some secret species one can only see if they have on those special alien spotting sunglasses.

Quite simply, there is no such thing as "Women"kind. You can never understand Women. You can, over time and with a lot of experience, understand A Woman. In other words, A Person. But you will never totally understand anyone, not even yourself, and definately not the secret species known here at SS as Women. Because there is no such thing.

There is group mentality, and there is a hell of a lot of immoral trash, which consists of men as well as women. The key is to finding a person, an individual, worth getting to know and understand.

 

[STR8UP]

People are still misunderstanding this post. The topic is about proper perspective to understand women, not what attracts them more. That horse was beat to death long ago.

I don't think men are frustrated because they have a mommy complex and expect so much from women. Men tend to have one kind of love, that is, their romantic love and familal love has similar levels of integrity. With women it's like they have two kinds of love, their opportunistic and very conditional romantic love and then their familal love. But I diagree with the rest of your post too. If you give women what they want, they will use you and discard you. You hve to give them what they respond to. The problem so many men aree doing that and not demanding anything from women. If anything I would say men are frustrated with women for the opposite reason you posed.

A+++++

Especially the part about romantic love being highly conditional, especially for women.

Second, the OP seems to be saying that Women have some ulterior motive, like they are some secret species one can only see if they have on those special alien spotting sunglasses.

Ulterior motives- not at all. There's nothing mystical about it. The more different facets you get to see of women, the better you will know them.

Quite simply, there is no such thing as "Women"kind. You can never understand Women. You can, over time and with a lot of experience, understand A Woman. In other words, A Person. But you will never totally understand anyone, not even yourself, and definately not the secret species known here at SS as Women. Because there is no such thing.

Different groups of people tend to behave in a generally consistent manner. You will never find a slot that fits everyone, but certain generalizations can be made about a certain group based upon observable behavior.

There is group mentality, and there is a hell of a lot of immoral trash, which consists of men as well as women. The key is to finding a person, an individual, worth getting to know and understand.

And armed with perspective, I have the tools I need to assist me in spotting the kinds of people who are a better fit in my life.

 

[iqqi]

Different groups of people tend to behave in a generally consistent manner. You will never find a slot that fits everyone, but certain generalizations can be made about a certain group based upon observable behavior.

Maybe you should stop putting so much energy into the ones that fit into the mold, and start to keep your eye out for the one who stands apart. hint: They ususally don't do so in an obvious fashion. Anyone who seems to be a rebel in an obvious way is usually more of a poseur than the rest. The only thing worst than a sheep is a poseur.

Look for someone who REALLY is different. It won't be immediately obvious from superficial appearances, and this is going to be what trips up most men, and makes them pass the gem right by. Especially if they have all of this "insight" about "Women."

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Let me guess, you are one of those girls who are different?