The Importance Of Persistence- You

spanky

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Read an article on sosuave.com today that I believe will change my attitude towards dating. Here is why:

I picked up this broad from a picnic last month. She seemed like she was into me during the festivity. I got her number and I called her several days later to set up a date.

She began naming off every single event she had in her supposedly tight schedule so I interrupted her and asked her just to tell me when was she open.
She said evenings were best for her. So I set up the date, we went out and had fun. Her IL seemed pretty high before dropping her off that night.

Later on that week, I went out of town.
Up to that point, she had never called me on her own or any thing. I wondered if her interest level would falter significantly during this period. I returned home, was there for a few days before I decided to call her and set up another date for a day during that week.

She, again, rattled out every event that was going on for her that week so I interrupted her again (on purpose and with a small laugh) and said, "look, you are definitely busy so just call me when you have some time open in your schedule."

She said, "Yeah, next week would probably be better. Wait! You didn't tell me how was your trip?"

II told her briefly about my trip then got off of the phone. I thought she was just trying to be cool about things.

Now, normally, I wouldn't call a woman
back if she displayed the IL this one displayed. You know, every excuse why they can't go out with you that week. I am too impatient, to say the least. Not to mention my ever concious awareness of avoiding looking like chump in the eyes of a woman I am attracted to. Again, normally, in this situation, I would just wait to see if she would call. If she didn't, I wouldn't call back. I would just call up someone else and move on.

That was before I read this wonderful article brought to my attention by another poster here. It is worth printing here again.

http://www.sosuave.com/articles/persistence.htm

After reading this article, I was immediately inspired and began to think about all of the action I may have missed out on over the years from being too impatient with my newly acquired dates. It is an excellent article.

So after reading the article, and a week after talking to the broad, I called her up again. I set up a date with her for this Thursday and she seemed really excited about it and once I noticed that, I decided to get off of the phone.

A few minutes later, I decide to try the trick on another female that didn't return my call last week after having a fun conversation with her at a club. She picked up and asked me if I could call her back in 1 hour. I said "okay."

I will try her again later this week.
 

spanky

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I suppose you can't persist with a friend that you know then?
You mean someone you are knee deep into the friend zone with? Here, you present the toughest situation to be persistent in.

You could try but I would bail out if she begins to look uncomfortable with it all.
 

squirrels

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Originally posted by Ultra Magnus
I suppose you can't persist with a friend that you know then?
If you're a friend, then persisting in behaviors that make you her friend are NOT going to get her into bed with you.

One key thing to remember if you want to be persistent with a girl. If you're so enraptured with her that you can't walk away, then it's not persistence, it's addiction. That's like saying you CHOOSE to keep shooting heroin. You're not choosing. You're not in control. Heroin is in control and you're making excuses. :mad:

Just the way you asked the question seems to suggest that you're looking for an excuse on sosuave.com to keep pursuing a one-itis that just is NOT going to be a romantic relationship...at least unless you change some things about yourself.

Persistence is NEVER an excuse to continue an unhealthy obsession. This is why recovering AFCs are better off with an unconditional NEXT. You lose some girls you might otherwise be able to obtain, but you get rid of all the "baggage" you're carrying along. I just could never accept NEXT as being unconditional, but it IS slowing me down. :eek:

BTW Spanky, please update if you happen to "close the deal" with any of these chicks...I'm interested in just seeing someone do it. It may also help people tell the difference between persistence and obsession/oneitis.
 

suavedave

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a quote

"The sqeeky wheel gets the grease." I used this yesterday for a girl that had not responded to an eMail. I forgot about her for a few weeks, and then the saying spurred me into another attempt.
 

stallion

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I've also been debating this issue over and over in my head.

I've realized that some people just NEXT way too fast and early but yet, theres the danger of obsessing like an AFC.

Whats making me think is when would be the right time to really NEXT and call it quits??

So far, I'm going to try 4, 5 attempts to ask a girl out before quitting for good. At this rate, I'll never have an one-itis:D
 

icehot

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i'm not good at being persistent wither. My logic is "if she's interested, she'll call me." and if they don't call, i usually NEXT them... its a pride thing.

My big challenge is trying to figure out when to persistent and when to protect your pride.

-iceH
 

Doppler4000

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Interesting topic. I recently met someone and then went out one time. On both nights things seemed to go very well with plenty indications of interest- almost too many to believe that they were faked. Since then she didn't return a voice mail or two trying to set up another date. I pretty much figured that was the end of that (probably most of you guys would agree), but perhaps it's just a bit too soon to throw that number away quite yet.

This, of course, leads to the next logical question- suppose I were to call this one again.... What sort of message would you leave?? (and yes, in this day of caller ID, leaving a message is required).
 

spanky

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This, of course, leads to the next logical question- suppose I were to call this one again.... What sort of message would you leave?? (and yes, in this day of caller ID, leaving a message is required).
Not necessary. In this day of *67, you can show up as anonymous on caller IDs.

Pretend that she never ignored your last call. In this situation I would make it short and sweet like this in a calm, cool, and collective voice-

"What's up, Ingrid? This is Doppler4000; give me a call when you get a chance."

Hang up.


I wouldn't try any tricks such as trying to sound all upbeat when she knows you are aware that she didn't return your phone call and here you are sounding all happy about it.
Have you ever had a woman you were trying to ditch do this? wasn't it annoying to hear her upbeat voice on you answering machine?
So at least let your dignity show in your voice if you are going to be calling her in the first place. If she answers and sounds upbeat, that would be your cue to proceed ( have a plan/date/meeting in mind).
If she sounds like "blah," that is your cue to recede.

I wouldn't try any gimmicks such as "I just remembered the name of that movie we were talking about so call me back."
This is transparent and she will realize that you could have just told her the answer in her message.

If she doesn't call you back after this. I would just back off.
 

Bonhomme

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Friendzone is different

If someone considers you "just friends," the important thing is whether or not there's potential for attraction to kick in.

And the only way to find out is to behave differently: tease her more, embrace your sexuality (i.e., take advantage of opportunities for blue humor, etc,), flirt, and get within her personal space a bit -- with finesse -- to see if the fire catches.

If the potential is there, but you just weren't encouraging it before, it could just ignite. If not, then forget about being more than a friend with this gal, and find others.
 

Doppler4000

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Pretend that she never ignored your last call. In this situation I would make it short and sweet like this in a calm, cool, and collective voice-

.........

If she doesn't call you back after this. I would just back off.
Yeah, that's about the only option...

What's the deal with this stuff anymore?? You meet someone, get good rapport, get a number, then go out on a date. The whole time she's giving off typical indications of interest (even talking about stuff to do on a future date), and then suddenly NOTHING. Is this common? Are these chicks really getting this dishonest and full of BS? or are there still some "rules" girls out there who are interested but still refuse to return most calls?
 

DJ Chubby

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All I can say is WOW! What an article! This one hit it right on the nail.... I can give no better advice than just say exactly what he said in a more concise manner:


1) Have a couple of options..he says 2 dates and 10 numbers, and that may be a little much for those who work, go to school, and go the gym regularly like me, but always have 3-4 options I would say.

2) If they're flaky, which trust me, I've dealt with so many times, instead of giving up, act nonchalantly and keep working it! I'm definitely going to try this!

EXCELLENT ARTICLE!

Oh, and Ultra.. I'm sorry man.. but 99% of the time it will NOT work. And the AFC side of you says to yourself, "I still have that 1%", but tell me..are you an AFC or a DJ? You can answer that one yourself... at the very VERY least you need at least another option.

Doppler4000, great advice.
 

John11276

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I too have always wondered about this. I am a very aggressive and persistent person in all walks of my life except dating. I've never tried to use my persistence in dating in fear that it may come off AFC. However last week I analyzed how I have been doing things in the past and thinking about what I may have missed out on by just saying "next" and assuming there was no interest. Well about a month ago I met a girl that I had some ridiculous chemistry and interests with. We then ran into each other at a bar and the chemistry was thick. I set something up with her, but the day before she canceled due to personal problems. I havne't called since then. I am a trusting person who is pretty confident that others will treat me the same way until they give me reason not believe so. I didn't get mad and actually saw this as the girl telling me she didn't want to waste me while she was going through whatever she was going through. One thing that we had in common was the love for music. We talked about Radiohead and she said she wants to get into it (five years too late) but didn't know where to start. Anyway it's been about a month since we tried to talk. I do however want to pursue her more so I constructed a five disc RH set for myself that spans highlights of all albums and b-sides. I sent her a copy of them.She'll get them out of the blue spontaineous like. No love songs, no sappy note, just a "thought you would enjoy these, hope you are doing well". It should come off as thoughtful and lay some future groundwork. Again, I'm not AFC nor do I have oneitus. In reality I could really give a f&&k b/c I know I'm doing her a favor giving out a chance to come into my life. Note that this is the first time I have ever done anything like this, trying something new. I'm not worried about coming off needay b/c I'm not. In fact I have a date tonight and Friday.
 

suavedave

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persistance-- girl's persistance

I agree with all this. A girl I've known since 1997 has been absoluetely persistent with me, and has never wavered in her attempts. Granted, I still do not feel totally into her, the fact that she has not given up given hell or high water is praiseworthy.
 

Lone_raider

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Well I've began to look at the "friends" things in a different light as of lately due to my changed DJ persona.

Now here is the deal, if you are an AFC with a girl and she has friended you it's basically over. If you never touch her, talk about sex, act C&F or talk about other women you went out with then you are in a category almost like a gay friend for her. If you listen to her problems and play pshyciatrist you are also screwed! This was the old me, just a genderless companion who longed for the girl to tell me she loved me one day. Guess what not gonna happen!!!

Well I'm now conducting a science experiment. There is a girl I went out with twice who flaked out on me completely several times. Then she became really friendly with me again suggested we go out to so and so place and do some stuff together, then flaked out again! I severed all contact for a while and ignored her 2,000 messages requesting to meet me again. And when I finally did go to see her, I put HER in the friendszone.

How did I do this? Well I just started talking about this girl I went out with for a month when she flaked on me. The look of surprise and horror on her face was something to behold. I then proceeded to talk about several other women some made up and some real lol, it doesn't really matter. And we both ended up talking about relationships, my past ones and hers. Sex was definitly a topic, and still comes up everytime I meet her. Sometimes when we go somewhere I touch her a lot, other times I don't touch her at all. I'm always C&F, and I always tease her about something. In fact the other day I told her that most women are Flakes including her, she asked what a Flake was and I described it! More shocked looks I must say lol. And when I talk to her, or if there is silence I look deep into her eyes, usually she breaks it by looking away ;)

Why am I doing this? Well as I said it's an experiment for me, how can I act differently then a normal friend would that makes me still an option. A big part is I did the Friending not her, I am in control, not her.

Basically there is always sexual tension here! We have gone back and forth with the sex talk quite a bit, and when there is none the tension is still there through other subtle things. But she is a Flake who lost her chance with me, now I'm having some fun. This isn't really persistance, she is the one who always ask to meet me, in fact I haven't asked her anywhere since the last time she blew me off for a date well over a month ago. But she keeps wanting to see me, I think my experiment is working. But we'll see, never acted like this in a friendship situation before.

Remember though, there is no shot if your the AFC friend. But if you keep things sexually charged and apply some DJ principles there may be a chance. All depends on how you acted in the past with her.
 

ulsterman

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Lone raider,

I enjoyed that post - I have actually filed it away as I'm deeply interested in the whole subject of the friends-to-lovers process. I know Doc Love's views on this matter are more ruthless, and I understand why he sees it that way, but for the more more patient and skilful DJ, there IS a way to steal an erstwhile girly friend's heart. You're spot-on about being sexual with her, albeit in a teasing, hinting way; you'll get nowhere with a female friend if you continue to be a wussy AFC.

Once again, great post and it's sure to be helpful to others wishing to elevate a relationship beyond the friendzone.

Ulsterman.
 

Doppler4000

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I think the key here is that persistence is pointless with someone who's already clearly rejected you. Just like the linked article said- this is not a license to continue some one-itis affair. And most likely we're talking girls you've met recently.

That being said, it seems that there are plenty of women out there who really do want to be pursued. Maybe they won't or can't respond to a single phone message. A girl I know well-experienced in dating recently told me that 2 calls a day comes off as desperate, 2 calls in 3 days (as long as you haven't gotten a clear rejection signal) doesn't. Yeah, I'm a little suspect of advice from women, but she swears that all her friends agree with this as well. Doc Love would never give this advice, sure, but I've seen a lot of uninterested women do stuff Doc says they wouldn't, and a lot of very interested women NOT do stuff that Doc says they would. He's a guy trying to make a buck. I actually like some of his points he makes, but there's no way that anyone can give advice that works all the time.

A really interested chick will probably call you back. One who's absolutely not interested will give you a straight rejection or (more likely) make things really tough on you which will be obvious if you have a good B.S. sniffer. It's not that common where you get truly mixed signals, but if that's the case I do think it may not be wise to next them too quickly.
 

suavedave

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Originally posted by icehot
i'm not good at being persistent wither. My logic is "if she's interested, she'll call me." and if they don't call, i usually NEXT them... its a pride thing.

My big challenge is trying to figure out when to persistent and when to protect your pride.

Yes, I did the same thing... I went so far as to not even call chicks; thinking back I don't really know the reason for this; but I figured that they would call if interested.
 
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