The idea that rejection is nothing personal

[Pandora]

I've posted at length on this forum before about a date I went on in 2023.

• We sat on a bench chatting for 2 and a half hours after the date.
• Even though there was no sex, she told me to tell another guy we had sex just to make him jealous (if a woman isn't into me, the last thing she'd want is for other people to think we had sex...even if it's just to make somebody jealous)
• She texted me nonstop the next few days (including begging me for a 2nd date multiple times)
• She offered to drive me to work (which was way out of her way), drive me to an appointment, etc

Certainly sounds like that woman was highly into me.

Yet before the 2nd date even had a chance to happen, she ended up hating me because my autism caused me to say/do some socially clueless stuff (in other words, yeah, it is possible for a high interest woman to lose interest because you said/did something that gave her the ick factor)

Okay maybe in extreme cases it is possible. I have no idea what you said. There have been videos of Chads admitting that they were pedophiles and the woman still made an excuse for him.

Usually when a girl really likes you it is difficult to shake her interest. Attraction is usually a zero or 100 game.

If a girl is really into a hot guy he can fart on a date and not apologize for it. She will still hook up with him. I had a female friend ( she was hot) she went on a date with a guy. He farted and told her " get used to it". She still remained interested because his SMV was so much higher in her eyes.

 

[SW15]

I live in Arizona.

There is an awesome thread that goes into a lot of detail about the mating environment in Arizona's biggest metropolitan area (Phoenix).

Observations on Phoenix's Scene

Phoenix, Arizona has become one of the biggest metropolitan areas in the United States. It has grown a lot in recent decades. The 2020 Census estimated that Maricopa County (covering most of Metro Phoenix) has a 4.4 million population. In 1990, Maricopa County only had 2.1 million people. Almost...

www.sosuave.net

60%+ of Arizona's population lives in Metro Phoenix.

There are a lot of subscenes within Metro Phoenix, as is true of any big metropolitan area.

One of the most unique things about Metro Phoenix compared to most USA cities is that nightlife is best in certain suburbs (Scottsdale & Tempe) as compared to Central Phoenix. Central Phoenix has gotten better in recent years.

The singles dense areas within Metro Phoenix place a lot of emphasis upon looks. In Scottsdale's Old Town district, looks & money are the key combination, though looks alone can work. Tempe's Mill Avenue is where looks alone would play better because it is mainly Arizona State students and recent Arizona State graduates.

As for where I interact with the opposite sex the most, I unfortunately have a majority of my opposite sex contact in settings where many would say it's inadvisable to pursue a partner (work, neighbors in the building where I live, etc)

That is a problem at any looks level. It is less of a problem for the upper tier of looks. You are not in the upper tier of looks.

The venues where it's most socially acceptable to pursue a partner (bar-hopping and night clubs) are miserable for me (miserable in the sense that the nightlife scene doesn't interest me at all)

It's challenging to be unattached and not use bars/nightlife venues at all for seduction. The best thing about bars/nightlife venues is that it is known that women attending many of those venues are unattached and seeking new penis. They are opened to being approached.

Certain types of men are better suited for nightlife venues than others.

I am more suited to daygame than nightlife venues as I am introverted. However, I am able to start conversations both in the typical daygame venues and at nightlife venues.

You also have not optimized your presence in daygame venues. You have never indicated that you've done a large number of grocery store approaches or regularly done 1-2 hour approach sessions in any of your local malls.

My sense is that you would take a lot of rejections if you did more regular grocery store or mall sessions.

 

[corrector]

There have been videos of Chads admitting that they were pedophiles and the woman still made an excuse for him.

Do you agree with @CornbreadFed assertion that Chads and Prettyboys are different?

I think Chad, as it is used here, is just the catchall phrase of a guy, regardless of race, is very popular with women from the time and have never seen a side of feeling ignored or having bad end of the stick when dealing with them.

 

[corrector]

What I said was you wouldn't understand getting rejected the vast majority of the time.

I never said you haven't been rejected. All I'm saying is it isn't something that's happened the vast majority of the time.

When you mention how you don't have casual sex, nor do you stay with men whose intentions aren't the same as yours, that's a matter of you choosing to refrain from certain stuff with men.

In other words, you have opportunities you turn down (because the opportunities aren't the exact thing you want). I, on the other hand, have a hard time getting anything at all with the opposite sex.

With me, I don't have the luxury of being the chooser.

There's a big difference between complaining about having a hard time getting your ideal scenario with the opposite sex (what you're doing) vs complaining about having a hard time getting anything at all with the opposite sex (what I'm doing)



As I said to her, there's a big difference between having a hard time getting the exact thing you want vs having a hard time getting anything at all.

I think we live in a different universe compared to the likes of her and chad-like guys. That's why some women who did sex changes to become a guy and experience life as an average guy end up offing themselves. They can't handle it.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Interestingly, while I have a harder time getting my foot in the door with the typical older woman (compared to my age contemporaries), in the instances where I have gotten my foot in the door with an older woman, I've gotten laid at a higher percentage rate than I have with age contemporaries who've let me get my foot in the door.

Perhaps focusing on older isn't such a bad strategy after all. Harder to get my foot in the door, yet more likely to get lucky if they do let me in the door.



I live in Arizona.

As for where I interact with the opposite sex the most, I unfortunately have a majority of my opposite sex contact in settings where many would say it's inadvisable to pursue a partner (work, neighbors in the building where I live, etc)

The venues where it's most socially acceptable to pursue a partner (bar-hopping and night clubs) are miserable for me (miserable in the sense that the nightlife scene doesn't interest me at all)

I attend organized singles events from time to time, however. I had a mini-victory (but no sex) from an organized singles event earlier this year.

I'm White. I'm pretty open-minded in terms of the race of my partner. I mainly interact with White and Latina, simply because those are the 2 dominant ethnic groups where I live.

As for SMV, I'd say my looks alone are 6-7/10. I won't share a picture of myself on the public forum. I will, however, share a pretty accurate AI depiction of me.

View attachment 14175

I look a bit like Mr. Holmes.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I live in Arizona.

Okay, based off your picture if that is accurate…You are giving alt right Elliot Roger vibes to women which I can definitely see them getting instantly turned off. You need to spice up your look and go for an actual style.

You are going to need solid wingmen to hit up bars. Clubs, are going to be hard mode regardless.

 

[SW15]

I live in Arizona.

Okay, based off your picture if that is accurate…You are giving alt right Elliot Roger vibes to women which I can definitely see them getting instantly turned off. You need to spice up your look and go for an actual style.

You are going to need solid wingmen to hit up bars. Clubs, are going to be hard mode regardless.

Giving women Elliot Rodger vibes is going to be really bad. I agree that it would be an instant turn off.

Metro Phoenix is very looks oriented too. Based on his comments on the last page, it is likely that he's stayed out of the Old Town Scottsdale bars and the Mill Avenue bars near Arizona State. Those would be 2 of the most looks oriented places.

Upper tier looks guys do well in Metro Phoenix and also some guys with money can do well there.

It is likely that he lacks wingmen to hit up bars as well. Lacking wingmen hit up bars is not that much of a barrier if a man can pick up the slack by becoming a good non-bar approacher. Most men who lack wingmen to hit up bars try to use the swipe apps as a substitute for the bars. They predictably have a low match % on their right swipes.

Going to bars solo is difficult for even some of the most extroverted men who are good looking.

Approaching strangers in a lot of non-bar venues is going to be hard mode too because most women 18-49 aren't seeking new penis at any given moment. The upside is that daygame is well suited for guys who lack wingmen and are open to approaching solo.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I went to school with a guy who got expelled for purposely starting a fire in the bathroom.

I also went to school with a guy who'd make comments in class about wanting to kill babies (teachers and students would brush it off as a joke)

It's not too late to advance your fortunes, hoss...

Hose the men's room at Neiman Marcus down with kerosene, and start a conflagration that makes The LA Wildfires look like chicken scratch, by comparison. Or: While in the break room at work, innundate your co-workers with fantasies of joining The Janjaweed, so that you can roast impaled Darfurian newborns over a firepit, instead of slumming it with Hot Pockets*

Like those two fellas you went to high school with, you just might be viewed as LESS creepy than you are





*For those who didn't pick up on it yet: This is called being facetious. I'm not actually encouraging or endorsing such behavior

 

[Pandora]

Do you agree with @CornbreadFed assertion that Chads and Prettyboys are different?

I think Chad, as it is used here, is just the catchall phrase of a guy, regardless of race, is very popular with women from the time and have never seen a side of feeling ignored or having bad end of the stick when dealing with them.

A Chad/ Tyrone is an objectively hot guy ( or as close to objective as you can get). He is tall, has a great jaw line, nice teeth etc. A lot of women like him cross culturally. These dudes get opportunities that us mere mortals dont. Women act a little different with them when they are alone.

You can be a Chad/Tyrone to a specific girl though but the real Chads are attractive to a large amount of women.

 

[corrector]

Women act a little different with them when they are alone.

A little? That's the understatement of the year.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

A Chad/ Tyrone is an objectively hot guy ( or as close to objective as you can get). He is tall, has a great jaw line, nice teeth etc. A lot of women like him cross culturally. These dudes get opportunities that us mere mortals dont. Women act a little different with them when they are alone.

You can be a Chad/Tyrone to a specific girl though but the real Chads are attractive to a large amount of women.

I’m not convinced that being tall is necessary.
I’m short & do fine.

 

[GoodMan32]

Okay maybe in extreme cases it is possible. I have no idea what you said. There have been videos of Chads admitting that they were pedophiles and the woman still made an excuse for him.

Usually when a girl really likes you it is difficult to shake her interest. Attraction is usually a zero or 100 game.

If a girl is really into a hot guy he can fart on a date and not apologize for it. She will still hook up with him. I had a female friend ( she was hot) she went on a date with a guy. He farted and told her " get used to it". She still remained interested because his SMV was so much higher in her eyes.

In hindsight (after discussing the story on the forum, another online community, as well as with my counselors), the 2 most likely areas where I went wrong:

-I wasn't aware the man is supposed to pick the venue for the 2nd date.

-I failed to get a joke which neurotypicals apparently have no problem getting.

 

[GoodMan32]

It's not too late to advance your fortunes, hoss...

Hose the men's room at Neiman Marcus down with kerosene, and start a conflagration that makes The LA Wildfires look like chicken scratch, by comparison. Or: While in the break room at work, innundate your co-workers with fantasies of joining The Janjaweed, so that you can roast impaled Darfurian newborns over a firepit, instead of slumming it with Hot Pockets*

Like those two fellas you went to high school with, you just might be viewed as LESS creepy than you are





*For those who didn't pick up on it yet: This is called being facetious. I'm not actually encouraging or endorsing such behavior

I knew you were being facetious.

Here's the thing though: In all seriousness, the fact I'm an autist is why I'd be viewed as creepy if I started a fire or made comments about wanting to kill babies.

Being neurotypical was why one classmate from my childhood got to commit arson in the school bathroom without being viewed as creepy, and another guy I went to school with was able to make comments about killing babies without being viewed as creepy.

It was mentioned that my AI image gives off Elliott Rodger vibes. Even if that's true, it's infuriating how that neurotypical classmate who made comments during class about wanting to kill babies got 2 girlfriends in high school, yet simply having a style that gives off Elliott Rodger vibes (based on appearance alone) holds me back.

 

[Pandora]

I’m not convinced that being tall is necessary.
I’m short & do fine.

Yeh I agree.

How tall are you btw? I am 5 foot 9. Also a good face can compensate for not being tall.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Yeh I agree.

How tall are you btw? I am 5 foot 9. Also a good face can compensate for not being tall.

5’7” on a good day.

 

[BaronOfHair]

...it's infuriating how that neurotypical classmate who made comments during class about wanting to kill babies got 2 girlfriends in high school, yet simply having a style that gives off Elliott Rodger vibes (based on appearance alone) holds me back

And it'll remain infuriating, IF you

-Continue dwelling on sh-t that happened back in junior high and HS, even though you're now in your THIRD DECADE of life

-Maintain a style and personality which drives off everyone, EXCEPT those who are similarly psychologically disturbed


Like so many guys who've spent entirely too long immersed in the MGTOW subculture, you're the male equivalent of an awkward little girl who became a devout Intersectionalist after her teens, then concocted an endless array of excuses for remaining a fu-king land whale/generally just being difficult to be around

 

[BeExcellent]

Oh Lord the excuses. Rejection is going to happen. NEXT! Seriously that must be the attitude whatever your mating game aim (short term/long term/casual/serious etc.) Who cares if I'm a girl?

Nobody can progress when they are busy ruminating about the past. Sure, we all would do well to examine our past to figure stuff out, but its the past. Its gone. Be in the moment now and move in such a way to go forward. Discard the stuff from school. School was years ago and that time of life is gone. It no longer exists. It does not serve you to obcess about whatever did or didn't happen there.

It is entirely irrational to spend mental bandwidth there. You are not the same person now.

As for opportunities there are tons of singles in Arizona. Lots of things to do, very active, fit outdoorsy community. Lots of nightlife around, particularly in metro PHX. Hiking, raquet sports, riding, golf, softball leagues, and all manner of Meet Up groups, activity clubs, etc. There's an active chess club even. Lots of lounges, coffee houses and entertainment venues. Read the PHX thread. Pretty accurate breakdown there in my view.

Rejection is the name of the game until you learn to quit worrying about it.

I have experienced rejection in looking for employment too. I didn't quit looking and start making excuses in that arena.....I get it, nobody loves rejection. But it is part of the process and you have to become immune to it; unaffected by it.

Otherwise you'll just make all manner of excuses, which is exactly what some here continue to choose to do.

 

[Vanderdonck]

I've seen the idea bounced around on the internet that it's nothing personal when a woman rejects a guy.

That's the biggest bull$hit ever.

Are there some instances where a woman's rejection of a guy is nothing personal? Absolutely.

There are many instances, however, where the rejection is personal. Many times, a rejection happens because of something the guy said or did (and the rejection wouldn't have happened if he didn't say/do whatever thing drove her to reject him). It's been discussed in length on the forum about how all it takes to get rejected (or to make the woman quickly lose interest) is for the guy to say/do even one thing that gives her the ick factor.

Now for some examples of a rejection that isn't personal: If a woman rejects a guy for his looks, height, ethnicity, etc.

If she's not into your looks, height, or ethnicity, there is absolutely nothing you can say or do to make her want to be with you (except maybe becoming extremely wealthy)

As for me, I'd much rather get rejected for my looks, height, or ethnicity than get rejected for saying or doing the "wrong" thing. At least with a looks/height/ethnic rejection, it doesn't mean the woman thinks there's anything flawed with me personally. Alas though, I'd venture to guess way more of my rejections (as well as instances where the woman quickly loses interest) have been of the personal variety.

It's still not personal.

Rejection isn't even real. You will never know the reasons and a lot of factors can go into whether a woman wants to spend time with you or not. It's just not worth the mental bandwidth to be analyzing it UNLESS you're using it to self improve. (I.e. your clothes are sloppy, your breath is bad, etc. - things you can control.)

 

[BaronOfHair]

As for opportunities there are tons of singles in Arizona

And when D.P. Ray-who lived right next door in New Mexico https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Parker_Ray at a time when that state was FAR LESS populous than it is today-was still able to snag sh*tloads of tail, there's no excuse for any resident of The Grand Canyon state remaining empty handed

 

[SW15]

Read the PHX thread. Pretty accurate breakdown there in my view.

Thank you for the acknowledgment on the Phoenix Scene thread.

For those too lazy too scroll up on this page, I'll post it here again.

Observations on Phoenix's Scene

Phoenix, Arizona has become one of the biggest metropolitan areas in the United States. It has grown a lot in recent decades. The 2020 Census estimated that Maricopa County (covering most of Metro Phoenix) has a 4.4 million population. In 1990, Maricopa County only had 2.1 million people. Almost...

www.sosuave.net

As for opportunities there are tons of singles in Arizona. Lots of things to do, very active, fit outdoorsy community. Lots of nightlife around, particularly in metro PHX. Hiking, raquet sports, riding, golf, softball leagues, and all manner of Meet Up groups, activity clubs, etc. There's an active chess club even. Lots of lounges, coffee houses and entertainment venues.

Since 60%+ of the state's is around Metro Phoenix, most of the singles activity in the state will be around Metro Phoenix.

Metro Phoenix has 4.5 million + in population now. When a metropolitan area gets that large, there are going to be plenty of options to use to meet people. There are both options in non-bar approaching and nightlife for those that don't have social circle options. Those with social circle options typically aren't reading a forum like SoSuave. Plenty of people in Metro Phoenix use swipe apps. That's a path I wouldn't recommend to someone that isn't in the upper tier of looks. Like anywhere, a mid-tier man will only get matches on less than 1% of his right swipes. For a mid-tier man, it can be effective with enough volume and dropping standards low enough. However, it's not good for one's self-esteem.

The Tucson area has a population of 1 million people. That's a good quantity of people but Tucson is known as a tough place to date outside of the college student and retiree population.

there's no excuse for any resident of The Grand Canyon state remaining empty handed

Plenty of people in the Grand Canyon State are empty handed.

When I lived in Metro Phoenix, I spent enough time at the Old Town Scottsdale bars. That's a competitive place to try and attract women. I saw a lot of men go home empty handed around 1 AM - 2 AM (Arizona's bar closing time). Some men learned from going home empty handed in the Old Town bars. They either self-improved enough to be competitive in Old Town, chose other venues where they could be competitive without self-improvement (if they were reasonably good as is), or stopped trying to date to self-improve enough in order to date later.

As said earlier, Metro Phoenix has enough options.

Tucson is a more challenging environment but even it offers enough options for working age people.

The rest of the state would be rather difficult.