the id vs the ego: why do we control ourselves so much?

[iqqi]

i always find myself with this same argument whenever i get the urge to do something i know i shouldn't. i get to thinking, well why shouldn't i? because someone might think something undesireable about me?

think about it.

we try so hard to manipulate what other people think of us. we don't want them to know that we care, or that we are angry, or hurt, or happy, you name it. we try so hard to come across as emotionless and hard all of the time. we don't care! but the joke is on us because we are doing this because we care so much!

think of all of the repressed anger that we hold inside from not just letting it out. just look at all of the bitter angry people here on this board! i bet they used all of their energy to come across as NOT angry towards the true object of their rage. and the result?

that person may not realize how much that you care (but they probaly do anyways), and you have to deal with all of your feelings by yourself, never really getting true closure.

and why do we strive so hard to come across a certain way? this would make us not be ourselves. we would be trying to be an image of what we think would affect the other person the way we want. we weave a web of illusions that isn't even memorable.

why not go out with a bang? why not scream and say what is really on your mind?

and why not reach out when you want to? why do we care so much what someone thinks, moreso than what we want to do?

the most memorable people tend to be the ones who let themselves be human and REACT naturally, than the ones who try to be godly and manipulate reactions.

is this making sense? and tell me where i am wrong in my thinking here.

 

[CrazyGoNuts]

The thing is everyone, and I mean everyone, wants to be accepted by friends, family, colleagues, people from the opposite sex, etc. We want this acceptance so much that we are willing to change who we are instead of changing the people who dont accept us. Sooner or later we realize this and say ya know what, f*ck these people if they dont like me for who I really am then they can deal with not associating with me.

 

[ScrewIt]

that's what my AFC friends do. they stay the way they are, dress the way they dressed 4 yrs ago and act the same. look at them now, they got no job, they practically dont have much friends, and they dont know how to socialize or act around ppl. i bet 20 yrs from now, they're still gonna be where they're at, unemployed and living w/parents. thye're 19, but i can imagine.

personally, i think it's a positive thing to change yourself. personal growth will make you a more well-rounded person, changing yourself to fine tune things and to discover your true self.

being arrogant and stubborn throughout life isnt gonna help you in any way, so just accept growth and change.

 

[iqqi]

i am not talking about change! change is good. i'm talking about caring what other's think, and letting it dictate how you act.

i am not just talking simple things here either. i guess i have a sliiight reputation on here for being a little crazy, but i don't mind. i accept it and embrace it.

when things ended (horribly) between me and my ex who cheated on me, i came across as cool and too good for him anyways. this is what he thought all along, and i played on that. i came across as mature and that i would be better all by myself. he felt lucky to have had me, and regret that he lost me the way he did. i pretended like i was concerned for his well being, gave him some advice for his future, and left on good terms.

and now months later i still am battling demons from that sh!t. fcuk that sh!t!!!! i want to yell at him and scream.

the scene that keeps teasing my mind is one where i am just chilling on a fence when he gets off of work, and when he walks past me to just start slugging snow balls at his ass.

immature? yes.
a little scary and crazy? yup.

but dammit, i just really want to slug something at his head!

and why shouldn't I?

so that he thinks i am better than him? i still would be.
so he thinks i don't care? well i do.

i want to throw snowballs at him.
dammit.

who's with me???

 

[jbbrain]

Originally posted by iqqi
the most memorable people tend to be the ones who let themselves be human and REACT naturally, than the ones who try to be godly and manipulate reactions.
is this making sense? and tell me where i am wrong in my thinking here.

You would have been much better off saying that the most memorable ppl indeed are the ones who ACT naturally. PPL live their everyday lives as a reaction of something goign on around them-hence the interpretation of life itself as a "consequence" (note: reaction) of the actions taken around us-"The child is father to the man" so to speak.

I think if we can truly ACT, as an act all into itself, rather than REACT all the time,the world would be a much better place.

Good thread.

 

[squirrels]

This is probably the ONE thing that really brought it all together for me.

The problem is WHEN a lot of people fall into this mindset. If you stop giving a damn during your formative times, like before you learn social skills, learn to have fun, learn to learn from your mistakes, etc...then if you stop caring what other people think, you'll never become integrated into society.

But once you have everything else in place, this is that step that really lets you release all your frustrations and worries and just GO with it. I hear people on this forum talking about "the game" and stuff like that. It's not a game, it's life.

Too many people go out after women thinking about it as "a game." They'll be out with their friends, chilling, BSing, employing normal social skills, etc...then a hot girl walks by, and suddenly they switch into "predator mode" and think about "approaching."

All this kind of thinking does is instill excessive worry and paralyze you from acting in your cool natural way.

"But what about ****y/funny, neghits, eliciting values, patterning, eye contact, etc...all those things that are PROVEN to work?"

These things are not things you should try to "turn on and off." If you do, they'll seem unnatural and forced. These are things that should NATURALLY be a part of your personality. These are things you need to integrate into your daily life and daily interactions. Your sense of humor, your sense of self-worth, the way you bust on your friends, the way you look at people when you talk to them...all these things SHOULD BE NATURAL.

Unless you're a genuine schizo, you can't just turn on your "game mode" at will. People who talk about "the game" just haven't figured it out yet. When was the last time you saw Pook or Fingers talk about "the game"? LOL

Seriously, it's like Fingers said, it's all about freedom. Once you reach that ceiling that we all hit, you have to learn to release the training wheels that helped you immensely to get there, but now are only holding you back.

And always listen to other people and learn from them, but NEVER be intimidated into acting like someone else because of what others think. NEVER think you "need" women because mass-media and society have turned sex into the next hot consumer good. NEVER think that a woman's opinion of your general worth should have any leverage on how you feel about yourself.

Seriously...they're JUST CHICKS. Always remember that.

If we're going to be damned...let's be damned for what we really are. --Picard

 

[AMF]

The needs of the individual are subsumed into the needs of society because COMPLETE personal freedom and hedonism jeopardizes social order. Inhibiting ones desires and one's opinions maintains relationships, the fundamental building blocks of society. If everyone acted intuitively, emotionally, instinctually, social bonds would be transgressed and compromised, social order breaks down and everyone loses.

 

[ManOMan]

Iqqi , it sounds like you are asking WHY be mature and try to control our emotions, when someone has wronged us and we just want to give in to our aggressive and angry urges and PUNCH them in the head!

The battle is Should I grow up and be mature Vs. Should We just let loose and act on our instincts?

I think its kind of obvious which approach is better. We are human adults. We strive through life to learn to control our emotions.

Sure it sux when someone wrongs you , makes you feel like crap, and all you can do is to act "mature"

How many times I wanted to just act out and call some b1tch and really give it to her. But childlike behavior is something to grow out of, and once you learn to be mature, you will learn it takes more energy to get angry, then to just act mature and move on.

 

[gav]

I disagree; you should not allow yourself to become molded into a "mature" person just because everyone else expects it of you. This is the regular thought-process of too many people: What do they think about me? How will i appear better in their eyes? I know, i'll act mature, so nothing i do will be unapproved.

Do whatever the fvck you feel like doing. Do it for yourself, not for others. If it will make you feel better, do it.

This should be what happens MOST of the time, but certainly not all the time to such a stage as you have "compete personal freedom" as AMF said. Complete freedom would lead to extensively emotional actions, such as assault, murder and rape, which are socially, ethically and legally unacceptable.

Showing no emotion is not the way to go. Doing so extinguishes your life force and thus you become a withered cabbage.

 

[ManOMan]

You dont "mold your self into a mature person because everyone expects you"

You do it for yourself, you do it as a natural growth process, to become in tune withyourself

Ever see 40-50 year old men throwing temper tantrums, yelling at people at work, acting like a jackass ata company event?

This is your shining example of a man who chose to follow his childhood instincts and "do whatever the fvck he wanted"

as opposed to tempering his emotions through the natural process of maturity

I see you are 18, at that age we all "wanted to do whatever we want" and avoid the responsibility of maturity

 

[gav]

Your idea of a 40-50 yr old who doesn't through temper tantrums etc is the typical 40-50 man who doesn't show any emotion. This man has learned from previous generations to suppress his emotions. Why? Because everyone else was doing it, so he decided to fit in.

When he suppresses his emotions, where do u think they go? Do they disappear? Hell no; they burn him up inside, he releases them when noone else is watching, because he doesn't want others to find out the "shocking" truth: that he's human


I have seen more than enough exceptions to this typical 40-50yr old u describe - fair enough they don't look that pleasant in my eyes when they release their anger, but on the positive side, when they are happy, they can be fun to be around, they don't take life that seriously and are actually compassionate people.

Also, the reason hardly anyone acts like a jackass at company events is because it's bad business practice.

 

[ManOMan]

so you are saying throwing temper tantrums arent emotions huh? Bravo

Its showing anger. A man who refused to grow up and deals with situation the way he did when he was a kid. A guy who has no self control.

Maturity is all about learning to understand your emotions, sustaining self control, and understanding others around you to make your existence a more peaceful place.

You want to treat the world with a "I Dun Give a Fvck " attitude, see how far that gets you

 

[iqqi]

i'm not talking about a 40-50 year old man throwing tantrums at work. i'm talking about a relationship between two people, a friendship. and someone wrongs the other, uses or abuses the other, takes advantage of the other, and then claim that they care and that they are your friend. which belies trust.

someone that you go through things with, that you confide in and they confide in you. you respect them, and then they disrespect you, so wrongly! and act like they didn't do anything wrong. their fcuking half truths, are lies! they are not loopholes to escape out of, not when sh!t was real.

i am so p!ssed at these people that come in my life. i know i attract all kinds of people, it is something that was pointed out to me time and time again. for the most part i like that. but they just want to bask in my light, and then take what they can, it seems. i try not to be a fool, but what does it take to trust someone? why am i always a fool?

i am no fcuking angel all the time, but i am careful with people i claim to care about! if you are my friend i am not going to use you. i am not going to take advantage of your trust or respect in me, to "see what i can get".

i'm so pissed!

 

[ManOMan]

*shaking head*

The allusion to 40 year old men was an analogy regarding your question about Why you should be the bigger person vs. Wanting to throw snowballs (aggression/anger) at your friends head

I think your problem maybe is that somewhere along the line people grow, change, and grow apart from each other.

Nothing is forever, and while you may have enjoyed your pals company and given each other 100%, soemwhere along the lines agenda's change, communication breaks down, and people drift

 

[gav]

Manoman, i've tried not giving a sh1t for a while. I reckon i got pretty good at it, but it left me hollow inside. It was as if i just didn't care about anything any more- as if my lifeforce was sucked dry.

Iqqi, do these people that hurt u know how u feel? Tony robbins suggests that u communicate your rules at the start of any relationship - tell them how u feel about them taking advantage, abusing or wronging u.

 

[iqqi]

all this sh!t started with the rappaboy i am seeing. been seeing for 3 months now, like every day. we are friends! i have come to have love for him, and i can tell that he feels the same! when we first met he was not interested in a relationship, just sex, that wasn't me, and that was made clear. but he liked me more and more, so he stuck around. we became straight up friends, companions, i was his sounding board.

i could tell by his actions that i meant alot to him, and that he admired me and respected me. you know when someone really likes you. he found out i was more than the "hot dangerous" girl around town. and i found out that he was more than an ignorant player slvt. as time went on, and feelings became more solid, i slept with him!

we were still always together, sh!t got more real and solid. i'm talking about me sleeping at his crib while he was at work. me having his key. me always with him. everyone knows we are together, there is no question in anyone's eyes. i am not seeing anyone else, and he isn't either. he doesn't have time!

but little sh!t would happen. every now and then he would slip up and do some dumb sh!t. he was confused. here it is, sh!t is real with us, and he thought he didn't want to get close to me. but he is! and if it seemed like i was hurt and ready to leave, he would be devasted, and things would change. so i stuck around.

the other night i went to his show by myself, just for him. no big deal though, cuz we are LIKE THAT. at one point he disappeared for like 30 minutes, to talk to some chic he met at the bar! while i was there! by my fcuking self for him! wtf?!

so we discussed it. it turned into, what did i expect? he said from the beginning he didn't want to be in a relationship.

and that is fine! but you won't be with me and trying to holler at other chics! not only do i know they don't even compare, but you would act like they could? or that you don't know my value? so i'm out. ignore that sh!t changed from the way they were first put out in the beginning. ignore the changes in our relationship. ignore the fcuking fact that i told you i wasn't that girl. did you think i was now? what is that saying? that i just gave it to you? and that instead of earning what you gave to me, you just give it away for free?!!

but then he says some sh!t like "he was seeing what he could get" "he took advantage of sh!t being good" and he "doesn't want to say he was having his cake and eating it too."

what? and you call yourself my friend? you can say those words, and then turn around and use words like "trust" and "respect" and "friendship" and you "have alot of love" for me?!?!?!?

and THEN he says i am just mad that he doesn't want to be with me. what? he was with me every day! he was missing meetings, he almost got fired from work, because he was with me. he couldn't get enough of me. he was there in my grill every day, whenever he could, because he wanted to be with me! he loved being with me, that is why he was always with me!

he tells me i knew how sh!t was and i am just mad that he isn't with me. no b!tch i am mad because you used me and then tried to turn sh!t on me when i chose to NOT BE WIHT YOU because you thought you could disrespect me and my name and honor, and call yourself my fcuking friend.
so you say i am mad that you just don't want to be with me. you do!

why would you even say some sh!t like that? to hurt me? i am already hurt.

 

[ManOMan]

I too agree you should communicate your thoughts. But there always seems to be one person who cares more than the other.

Especially if you let a relationship sour over time, there is just too much talking and fixing needed to mend the relationship (at that point, its not even worth it), but thats subjective.

I think iqqi is asking, why am I always the caring, trustful person, then I get burned?

I've had similar experiences, I think we all have.

 

[Slickster]

...and why do we strive so hard to come across a certain way? this would make us not be ourselves. we would be trying to be an image of what we think would affect the other person the way we want. we weave a web of illusions that isn't even memorable.

and why not reach out when you want to? why do we care so much what someone thinks, moreso than what we want to do?

Maybe its because you're not as grown up as you think.

Not trying to be harsh iqqi it just sounds like something a person who isn't in touch with who they really are would say.

If there are things that you wish you could do but you are letting others hold you back because you are worried about your image then you aren't being real with yourself are you?

Yell, scream, go be crazy if you feel like it. Is that really who your are and want to be? A yelling, screaming, crazy chick? Don't answer that thinking about what others would think. At the end of the day when its just you and your thoughts, is that really who you want to be?

and now months later i still am battling demons from that sh!t. fcuk that sh!t!!!! i want to yell at him and scream.

Think about it iqqi. He is probably still regretting cheating on you. By you acting mature and above his lowlife a$$ you indirectly hurt him more than any yelling screaming or snowballs would. See what I mean. By being mature about it you pass the pain, regret, and the demons on to him. If he really was a good guy with any integrity you better believe those demons are there.
(If he doesn't have any regrets your better off anyway.)

However, if you did take the yelling, screaming, snowball route then he just breathes a sigh of relief and thinks "Man, I'm sure glad I got rid of that psycho chick when I did."

Stick to higher ground girl. That way you are still gold and he's out in the cold.

Later.

 

[iqqi]

rappaboy is not the same ex that i want to throw snowballs at. the point of this thread is that i am still angry and poisoned from THAT ex (Mentalman), because i just let it go like it was cool when i found out he had been lying and cheating on me all along with a fcuking 40 year old sugarmama.

now that this sh!t has happened with Rappaboy, i don't want to hold on to the same pain! he was my friend, he should know that i am hurt, and why. why pretend like it doesn't hurt! he should know! he isn't some fcuking coworker or boss. he was my friend. he claimed to care about me.

and i don't know what to do about the pain and anger i can't let go of for Mentalman. my girl thinks i should call him up and just slap the sh!t out of him, so that he knows. that he hurt me for real, that sh!t wasn't cool. mental man, not rappaboy. keep it straight.

sorry about all the emotion, i am really upset now!

 

[ManOMan]

iqqi, Take out a peace of paper and write down exactly what you want to say to him, say ANYTHING you want without holding back, or worrying about his response.

then reread it, shred it and toss it. Then come back and tell us if you feel any better.