The "Guy Friends" Issue

[resilient]

Chatoh, I agree -- but it's not necessarily a big issue if they broke up over distance. I know a lot of people who keep psuedo friendships with ex's after splitting and moving to the other side of the states/country. It's kinda like "where are you" now thing in later years. Most of the time the attachment is gone, but a piece of familiarity remains.

 

[Latinoman]

Chatoh, I agree -- but it's not necessarily a big issue if they broke up over distance. I know a lot of people who keep psuedo friendships with ex's after splitting and moving to the other side of the states/country. It's kinda like "where are you" now thing in later years. Most of the time the attachment is gone, but a piece of familiarity remains.

Hmmmm...really? Let's say you two are having some stupid issues. Do you think she will feel that losing you would be a big deal (after all...she has somebody READILY available and therefore she won't feel lonely...somebody that has a "history").

 

[jonwon]

I am a firm believer women with low self esteem require the constant attention of validation from male buddies!

Every guy I know who as male friends, either the women as an attraction to him and he is not interested, but likes her company, or the guy as an attraction for her, never seen platonic friends, unless they are mates of family, work colleagues working on a project, mates through BF or GF!

There does exist a possibility of male friends but these are usually associates from a situation that have helped build bonds and its just two healthy people taking an interest in there wealth-fair, i.e students later on in life meeting up for a party or having a natter once every 6 months or so, there is no agenda for attraction it is simply an interest in the other ones pursuits.

But saying this, you only have to look at the average attractive women, most have male friends on her belt, like little additions to there ornamentation.
Granted some are AFC, but it still does not take away the average AFC can still put a strain on the average relationship, but some are GL guys that too, want an attractive women friend for social ornamentation.

Women and men have fiends of opposite sex’s it works both ways, the point is people in general on this route don’t stress there true intentions, so fit into friend mould when secretly they want more. Also a tactic applied by both male and female is a means to undermine a relationship through what some consider, covert tactics. An AFC is an expert of this if he knows it or not, the friend type, typical ‘nice guy’ ideal.
Working his ideals on the women, the fact is normal women don’t entertain the ‘nice guy’ and see him for what he is, a manipulator wimp, they then dump then.

The typical nice guy AFC covert relationship wimp, as I refer to them or TNGAFC, to coin a new term will always show his true intentions when the object of his desire finds a mate, in the form of put downs, typical nice guy attitudes, that normal healthy women will see through. Then the women will automatically distance herself from said mate as he constantly bores her with his ideals about her choice of a man, or she starts to see his increased attraction or intentions.

These women are healthy and just innocent of the ideal: men and women can be mates. The typical AFC nice guy route to her pants, will get no where with this type of women, no where at all and her finding a compatible mate, will further skewer her AFC mates chances and then probably make there interaction dead.

But this is an healthy women with the right set of ideals.

Now there is other forms, Low interest level and seeking other partners out, these women with low interest level, don’t have mates they have suitors, since as far as your concerned each male friend is a suitor: a potential! A suitor or potential, normally comes at some point IN the relationship and not BEFORE the relationship. If your GF, suddenly as bob from work, taking her out for a drink most nights, well lets just assume your GF interest is starting to dip. Now picture yourself on a scale of value. Yours goes down, bob who she’s drinking with goes up, visa versa, but the odds are very much in BOBS favour, especially if she is bored. How to get bob away from the GF and restore peak? Object or walk? or TRY to raise her interest again.

But lets keep in mind whilst she is out with BOB, another man for a social drink, your interest is starting to wane, since your questioning your GF motives. Do you accept nothing is happening due to jealousy? Or do you assume if you don’t act on your jealousy BOB will continue to keep building that interest until bob and GF are no longer in the pub having a drink, there now at his house.
Or do you ignore it altogether and hope it works itself out? But then with that when it works its course, do you wonder to what level it got.
Or do you simply say fuc* all these mind game BS, I don’t like my GF out with bob she does it again, I am dumping the Biatc* and save all of the above?
So which is it?

The attention *****:
The attention *****, loves AFC’s she loves the attention from MR covert AFC wimp, she as a BF and my god will she let the BF know she has male friends. She won’t let the BF know they fancy her (even though it is clear to a child of 12), no this is not how it works, to do that would cause the BF to give an ultimatum to her.

No what the attention ***** does is she keeps dropping subtle hints to the BF. He’s just a friend, I am going out with him for a drink my mates are coming too. Don’t worry dear I love you, there is no one else for me, or a favourite one ‘I don’t fancy him’ or another one… ‘I would never cheat on you, I am not the type. Whilst she keeps on men, accumulates more men, these guys phone her, go out with her, incidentally when YOUR NOT there!

And then, due to wanting to meet these great guys she has on the go, you ASK to meet them, they never OFFER you to meet them, it does not work that way. It is never I have a mate called BOB I would love you to meet him, no they don’t actually have any intention of you meeting her AFC mates that qualify her in-case you see the truth. The healthy women by the way INTRODUCES you to her mates male or female, the attention ***** DOES NOT (or the healthy women with a male suitor).

Then you meet her mates, due to her not being able to refuse you, or your persistence!
You meet them and you see how sly they are how AFC they are, you see them for what they are! You wonder why your GF does not see it! You wonder why she cant see there intentions, you think she is naive, she is being played by a wise man who is not showing his intentions. The only Naive one here is in FACT YOU! She knows exactly what she is doing, she enjoys it. Even if you notice subtle quirks in her behaviour with the said mates and comment on it, it goes no where, just feeding the drama gene. There is no objection and even if your protests get through, they simply mask it and hide it.

Point is.
Healthy women don’t need validation from men, Attention *****s need validation from men all the time!
Healthy women cut ties with AFC men (granted real GL ones may have some GL guys mates, but they WILL introduce you to them).
If your not seeing the above, you may just be with an attention whor*, GL with it, you will need it.

 

[resilient]

Hmmmm...really? Let's say you two are having some stupid issues. Do you think she will feel that losing you would be a big deal (after all...she has somebody READILY available and therefore she won't feel lonely...somebody that has a "history").

One thing to remember is that these relationships fail. Sure there is that old sense of familiarity, but a woman never forgets the resentment she had building up in the relationship for it to continue. She keeps them around for some validation like Jonwon was talking about. I have read that 75% of women keep their male ex's around in case they have to break the glass for temporary intimacy validation. LSE/AWs keep ex's around when they're lonely. They can't cope with being alone when trying to sort their own issues out themselves so they cling on to the past baggage or an ex to use him as an emotional tampon/or quick intimacy fix if the guy is in town or she takes a plane to visit him. It's a risky business that's why when I get into a relationship I see if there are any ex's lurking in the background and the frequency of communication.

If the woman had high self esteem she'd cut ties with these AFC ex's and guys by keeping her eyes only for the prize.

 

[jonwon]

I just want to add, on the way home from work i remembered a comment and a lesson i learnt from my older sister on this very thing.

Attention *****s, dont normally go for AFC men as the impression is.
Lets think about it:
Attention *****s want validation from men, this does not equal sex, it does equal dangling the sex to a degree to keep the AFC intrested (incidently still keeping a strain on the relationship, so its the AW who is keeping the AFC not the other way around).

AW want confident men, they have certain peaks of confidence and some-times they meet a confident guy and they are not like the AFC attention mr nice guy chump dude! They fall for the guy, they love the attention, but wait, how can the AW get more attention?

Simple the AW starts to get the guy on his level, to a point where, she can derive attention from him. Dropping subtle reminders about her male friends and what they do for her, or try to make the BF jealous. Trying to contain jealousy with an AW is like trying to hold in a pis* for a week, it aint gonna happen, you know why? They may sure it wont happen.

You cant simply state: dont be jealous, this is not how it works, here they want the drama the jealousy and if you refrain from being jealous they push harder until you ARE, but dont underestimate the power of the working mind of women, they have toppled some great men in there time and can be dangerous if you dont understand the power a women as over a man.

I have known men go to prison for the sake of women like this, men kill for women, or kill themselves over women, powerful strong, postive men.

What i am saying is AW.
Are attracted to ALPHA MEN, they love the challange of breaking YOU. It is the ultimate attention filler, once your the sobering jealous AFC dude she accumulates job done, time to move on, you dont bow to her, the more she pushes the more she plays! Challanging? you bet any ALPHA would love the test and who would not? it is attractive to come and challange that lvl of control, but facing it is not healthy it is as destructive as her need to turn you to AFC, due to her vamparic ideals. Eventually there persistance if you let it, will have your self esteem suked out of you, until your some AFC chump sat in your room, whilst she is out with her male buddies but not with YOU. Then you reflect to your single life, the amount of women you used to date, how good things where, the mates you neglected, where it went wrong and how the hell you let it get to this stage, then you wake up to a powerful side of a women and vow never to to go back.

If you want an AW for the challange, KEEP her at ARMS length and FUC* her attention craving ass off whilst her AFC chumps look on, with a smile, then when you have had your fill drop her as you found her. If your dating an attention *****, i would suggest you back off so she is at arms lenght, never show an attention whor* weakness NEVER. This means controlling, jealous, possessive e.t.c your just doing exactly what she wants, if she loves that shi* dump her or use her for sex as she is trying to use you!

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Troops,


Guy friends are not really the issue. It is only a symptom of the real disease. And that disease is addiction. Addiction to the rush that comes from sex we associate with a PARTICULAR WOMAN.

If a man of good character actually is looking for a relationship with a woman of substance, he would REQUIRE for her to meet other criteria than just sexual compatability. You see, that woman would also have to value HIS company ENOUGH to not jeaopardize it by keeping around potential "Diicks in glass cases".

Men who express a rational and realistic concern to a woman who behaves in ways that show disrespect for the relationship, and yet she CONTINUES her behavior inspite of an understood possibility of losing the man----well THAT man is unfortunately guilty of having a SCARCITY MENTALITY.

Why? Because any man in a relationship who puts up with blatant disregard for his feelings, or flagrant disrespect, is usually only doing so for fear that THIS particular chick is the BEST that he can get.

I know. Because I've been there...

It's time to stop allowing ourselves the luxury of just being "male" and instead, MAN THE FUKK UP, soldiers!!!!

The ONLY power a woman exerts over a man is through her SEXUALITY. She does it by the promise and/or the threat of whatever she chooses to DO with her sexuality. Once a man realizes that there is a certain universiality, or SAMENESS to sex, his immunity to any particular woman's sexuality is boosted a hundredfold.

And once he recognizes that the rush to instant gratification of a sexual release is something that is fleeting, and can NEVER be fully satisfied (see---Lust/Lacsiviousness), he will then REVELATE to the awareness that a woman's sexual favors are NOT his salvation.

No. Instead, he will then begin to understand that true fulfillment in any healthy relationship is not found between the legs of a particular woman ONLY.

No. It is instead found in the recognition and acquisition of a particular woman who brings OTHER qualities like good character, compassion, RESPECT, integrity, and compatability to the table as well.

Without the addition of these types of qualities, a man will inevitably find himself at a disadvantage in the relationship. He will invariably discover he is involved with a woman that he has NO fixed rules by which to measure her past, present, OR FUTURE level of interest in him.

And because of that, EVERYTHING ELSE that she has in her life other than HIM will be perceived by him as a threat to their relationship. Whether it's GUY FRIENDS, FEMALE FRIENDS, FAMILY, JOB, PETS, etc.

And the punchline to this Killing Joke is that his suspicions will often be VALID. But he CAN'T prove it. Therefore, unless he gets a firm enough grip on who HE is AND what HE wants, He may NEVER experience...



...PEACE...one day.

 

[Bible_Belt]

You cant simply state: dont be jealous, this is not how it works, here they want the drama the jealousy and if you refrain from being jealous they push harder until you ARE...

I agree that feeling jealous is hard to avoid, but it is possible to not show it. I'd add that if she is intentionally pushing jealousy buttons, fight fire with fire. Casually spend time with other women to provoke her jealousy. I think women are more jealous than men, and this is a contest we can win.

If you want an AW for the challange, KEEP her at ARMS length and FUC* her attention craving ass off whilst her AFC chumps look on, with a smile, then when you have had your fill drop her as you found her. If your dating an attention *****, i would suggest you back off so she is at arms lenght, never show an attention whor* weakness NEVER. This means controlling, jealous, possessive e.t.c your just doing exactly what she wants, if she loves that shi* dump her or use her for sex as she is trying to use you!

I think this advice goes for any woman, not just the AW.

KEEP her at ARMS length and FUC* her attention craving ass off whilst her AFC chumps look on

That's the DJ LTR!

 

[jonwon]

I agree that feeling jealous is hard to avoid, but it is possible to not show it. I'd add that if she is intentionally pushing jealousy buttons, fight fire with fire. Casually spend time with other women to provoke her jealousy. I think women are more jealous than men, and this is a contest we can win.



I think this advice goes for any woman, not just the AW.

KEEP her at ARMS length and FUC* her attention craving ass off whilst her AFC chumps look on

That's the DJ LTR!

Agreed but somewhere in there for me personally, I would prefer a women that does not judge her value on how many AFC's she can accumulate, or even feels the need to keep guys on that telegraph attention in her direction, I would like the ideal the guy mates she has, can be trusted through solid interactions with her and them! If I was to commit again in the long haul, the women as to have solid foundations, as I have made too many mistake in the past, assuming one can keep his shi* together when a women is clearly showing red flags (ego and confidence can be counter productive at the onslaught of a smart women)

Maybe its asking too much but then again, I don’t mind being single, so no great loss, she may come she may not.

I appreciate the average guy as issues also, but if I found the negative frame of: hey I have issues too! It would only allow me to settle for a women of lower quality, so I try to build a solid perception of my reality and keep myself tight in a relationship, we all make mistakes, the better man is the one that can learn from it and grow, I expect my next GF or partner to have developed at least the same attributes and conditions I would only expect from myself. No that does not include sleeping around, but it does include, if I choose commitment she better be worth it, is that not why we are here?

Simple ideals of controlling our own senses and emotions is all fine on paper, but when confronted with something that is obviously detrimental to your emotional well being, well it makes you wonder exactly how much you feel you are in control.

The control is and always will be there, but ideally the women who is eventually settled down with, will not find a need to consistently shi* test and play the typical mind games of a few relationships I have managed to dig myself out of.

But I see the point of the statement, just to me it does not refine the expectations as they are now.

To simply brush the positve application of even neagtive traits is to miss a different level of ideals, that i have come to understand.

Negative traits are wrong, when telagraphed but the point is negative traits: jealousy, e.t.c can illustrate a problem, its when that problem becomes a corner stone of the relationship and a comprimise is not found when compatabilty is compromised, we have the emotions for a reason, its due to us not liking some shi* in some format, to deny them is to deny! Self.

To give into the and let them consume you is to give into emotion and negate logic, which anyone who as learned to try to balance the two is also negative as the actions of over emotion confrontations with out proper thought or actions can be as destructive as the application of 'lack of action' or even more so!

It border on control and how much you want to telegraph your level of discomfort, but i would expect even a large % of healthy women would rather a guy tell her when hes pissed at something, then simply NEXT or hold it in and let it stew. There is no posive application of wollowing in self emotions, it is also folly to assume one can simply brush them aside and forget about it, there there for a reason, negative or not, it the control and application of said emotion to your ideals of reality that boarders on acceptability in the RWorld.

Personnally if i was with a women who tested my level of respect, i would make it known, then if it continues my experiance teaches me to walk, but only after i have made objectionable points about the situation.

To assume a guy is wrong to confront his ideals is limiting self and experiance, granted we can learn from experiances and application of the wrong way to do things, but still in the context of learning and reaching a certain point there are values built, if there not met, then the logical step is to give them to ability to compromise or talk it out, or failing that move on to other areas.

 

[chatoh]

Resilient : I don´t necessarily agree with what you said regarding ex boyfriends, because you are not taking into account if they live in the same town or state as your girlfriend. That is the real danger. If the guy lives at a far away town state or town that´s a different issue and I agree with you.
If the ex lives in the same town, and he still remains friends with your girlfriend, and he still has an attraction for her that can be a threat to your relationship, that I can tell you by experience, because I´ve gone through that.

 

[resilient]

Chatoh, yeah I meant out of state/country for these ex's.

I also agree on promiximity of ex and the likely of hooking up.

(eg.) I had a house warming party last year and invited some people over. One of them was an ex. I didn't f-close, but got close to it. In the morning she had "buyer's remorse" about hooking up since she already had started a STR with another dude who was out of the country for a few weeks. All I had to do was show her the tour of the place and remenise about old times to k-close her on my bed. I figured she was single, but when the attraction is still there they will leave the boyfriend out of it. Sucks for him, but maybe that's just karma working here.

 

[drmeathead]

if oyu cant trust her get out whether with guy friends or girl friends. it depends on what they do too. if she spends time with a guy friend who is one of the girls...whatever. if they go to a movie on a friday night together thats totally different. i mean she should want to spend her time with you first and foremost. emotional cheating is cheating just the same.

my ex wanted to join a sorority. i told her cool. i said i am all for sleepovers with the girls and make up and shopping trips. i wast cool with a hey lets get drunk and invite the delta guys over.

it sucks. my advice match her distance in the relationship. go find some girls that are friends. what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[mrRuckus]

I've been wrestling with this issue as of late. I took my g/f to a theme park on her bday and throughout the whole date she received text and calls from "guy friends" exs/ex-fbs, who knows... I got the gut instinct that they had a sexual history just by the way they flirted on the phone. Point being, it was disrespect and low IL to me and in hindsight I wish I would have said:

"Look, let's make a deal. Today is your bday and we're enjoying it here at x theme park. Let's turn off our cell phones so we can enjoy our special date together."

Respect back in my court.

I have started seeing a rather awesome girl. We've talked about a bunch of things like this. We both agree on the idea that it's okay to have male/female friends when you're in a relationship except it's only really appropriate to hang out with them in groups. This could be bad at times, but I think that just makes it easier all around and eliminates temptations and 'accidents.'

I see a girl with a boyfriend making and talking excessively to new boys kind of weird. All the female friends I have I made while single or they were my friend's girlfriends or ex's friends.

What's the deal with the cell phone? I went on a first 'date' with a girl last wednesday. She answered the phone about 4 times. I left. Is this really appropriate behavior in our culture now? She's still emailing me and stuff btw so it wasn't interest level.

The 'awesome girl' i mentioned above would get txts and she'd answer them occasionally while we were out. A couple different times now i've just asked her to put the phone away since i'm a real person right there and she listened perfectly and didn't pay attention to it the rest of the day. I don't mind a txt or two but when people start having conversations on their cells when they're supposed to be hanging out with me, it drives me up the wall. In the case of that first date with the other girl, it totally ruined the flow of conversation and all vibe we had going several times. I'm totally turned off from her now and i thought she was really smart, funny and cool before. But i won't have another girlfriend that is attached to her phone. fvck that.

 

[chumptochamp]

When a girl says that she has a lot of guy friends I discontinue the relationship. When a girl says that it means a few different things. In my opinion she is either a slut (unless you want that type) or she is indirectly saying she likes to date around without being committed, which means you arent in control. She may use that on you as well to be able to use that as an excuse if she wants a way out of a relationship. As a rule the women I knew that claimed to have a lot of guy "friends" were wish washy and for sure not a "stand by her man" type.

 

[Jay Jay]

I agree with everything SirDrinkalot said.

I learned my lesson with one GF.

Just beofre we hooked up her ACF best friend wrote a letter outlining logically why they should be together.

I then took her out and busted a move.

She had nothing but contempt for this guy.

But she liked his *****arse company.

He began to get under my skin.

I began to get jealous.

We began to fight about him.

She claimed "we are just friends." and said "don't you trust me."

I told her he was trying to undermine our relationship to get to her.

She started hanging out with him more and more.

I dumped her arse.

He asked her out again.

She told him to **** off.

She tried to get beack with me.

I said no way.

She wanted to be friends.

I told her I had enough friends.

Since then I just ignore girls shmuck male friends. If it bothers me I dump her.

JJ

 

[Vypros]

, I wouldn't know whether to trust my distrust.

And that's the answer right there. If you are QUESTIONING her guy friends, then the chances are your gut is telling you she's doing something inappropriate (not saying she's CHEATING, but she is probably doing inappropriate things).

It's ok if she has guy friends, but if you ever start to question her relationship with one of them, then the odds are very high that you have a very good reason to.

How do you deal with it?

Well, you shake it up. You back off of her and go and do YOUR thing. Make girlfriends and see how she reacts, because if she goes off on you about it, then you KNOW something's up. Think about it.

 

[STR8UP]

I have started seeing a rather awesome girl. We've talked about a bunch of things like this. We both agree on the idea that it's okay to have male/female friends when you're in a relationship except it's only really appropriate to hang out with them in groups. This could be bad at times, but I think that just makes it easier all around and eliminates temptations and 'accidents.'

There's no such thing as an "accident".

A chick with male friends needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

I would hate to have a decent chick reject me just because I have a lot of female friends, and I would hate to pass up a good woman just because she has male friends.

What's the deal with the cell phone? I went on a first 'date' with a girl last wednesday. She answered the phone about 4 times. I left. Is this really appropriate behavior in our culture now?

That sh!t is RUDE. If I am out trying to get to know someone one on one, the only calls I will take are business calls, because I pretty much HAVE to. Even then I apologize and make sure I explain that it's business and I have to take it.

The 'awesome girl' i mentioned above would get txts and she'd answer them occasionally while we were out.

The text thing is kind of annoying too.

This one chick I was seeing was always texting her best friend a whole play-by-play of whatever they were doing that night. I busted out my phone one night and exchanged a few texts with another chick I know, and she didn't like that too much. When I called her on it she explained that it was ok for her to text her friend incessantly, but it wasn't ok for me to text MY friend if she was a female. Chick logic at its finest.

 

[donjuanapprentice01]

What a bout a chick who goes out partying on a saturday night with 2 close guy friends? I don't think that's right at all, but i know someone who does this.

 

[squirrels]

You either believe that it's completely platonic, or you dump her.

And yeah, half of those "platonic male friends" of hers are waiting for you to slip up so they can get in her pants. It comes down to whether you trust her...or rather, whether you think that you both are getting what you need in the relationship enough that you don't have to seek it elsewhere.

What a bout a chick who goes out partying on a saturday night with 2 close guy friends? I don't think that's right at all, but i know someone who does this.

You ever go with them?

 

[Luthor Rex]

No. It is instead found in the recognition and acquisition of a particular woman who brings OTHER qualities like good character, compassion, RESPECT, integrity, and compatability to the table as well.

Are you Neanderthal Super Soldier posting under a different name?

 

[jonwon]

what strikes me as odd:

is that a large % of people including the OP, sees a women as having guy mates as the male friends being the issue.

What i mean is questions like:
'How do i get her to leave her guy mates'

'How do i stop this guy mate from contacting her'.

These guys always assume the women is never at fault and blame external influences on anything but the object of desire or the idol or false goddess.

This is like a couple:
the man cheats on the women, so the women goes out and starts an argument with the OTHER women, when in fact the fault should be at the source and that was the other partner, not the outside external influence.

In that worrying about male friends is not constructive when you think about it.

At the end of the day its your GF actions that should decide if you stay with her, not what HER male friends are doing.

Now if she is flirting in front of you, texting and being in contact with exBF, choosing other men for DATES over you, playing head games with you and using other guys for it.

Then only you should decide what to do with it, but lets get something clear.
It is not the male friends fault.

This is like blaming a chocolate bar for making you FAT!

Do assume a fat chick is fat, due to chocolate making advances towards her, or do you accept she went out and made that chocolate part of her world.

Worrying about male friends is retarded, when only thing you need to worry about is your GF actions ONLY.

Don’t blame outside influences for other peoples fuc* ups including yours when you are with a girl who is courting more men then you would like to think.

But that does not mean to say your GF does not generally believe she has male friends regardless.

only a chump gets pissy over male friends!
A real man, judges by her actions and not the actions of others.
Hence if your girl is pis*ing about with other men under the disguise of male friends, the problem is the women not the male friends, something alot of guys don’t realize. That problem is transferred to you when you choose to ignore it or rat ionizes it.

but women genuinely believe men and women can be friends, but no women who is worth keeping around, entertains potential suitors.

Now if your GF is taking the friendship thing a little too far, don’t blame the men she is doing it with, recognize your probably with a waste of space! So just dum* the bit** rat ionizing it is futile! Specially when there are shi* oads of other women out there who dont play those games.

But a good % of men reading this are jealous guys who would get pissy at there women smiling at a male friend.

Most male friends eventually shoot themselves in the foot anyway, worry about them only gives them power.

so whats the points? and if you’re with a women who craves attention from men including her male chumps, trust me your better of single.