The Four Types of Men

[DJCT]

I don't visit other parts of the forum much and I suspect this may be true of some of the other mature DJs. I posted the following in response to a post on sociopaths and was interested in getting your thoughts so I'm posting it here. This is aimed at recent questions around PUAs vs. AFCs vs. sociopaths vs. DJs.

From the perspective of success with women (I define success as a man being able to achieve the objectives he sets for himself in regards to women) I think there are four basic types of guys. I doubt any one person fits a single type 100% but rather orbits around one type primarily.

Why bother with creating labels and attaching characteristics? Because it makes it a little easier to understand where each is coming from, where they are going and the challenges they will face with women.

The four types:

The Player - A sociopath. Life is centered on himself with 0 concern for others. Socially proficient. Lies and manipulates to achieve his ends. Often a natural with women because he (easily) beats them at their own game.

The DJ - A man that was never corrupted or schooled away from embracing his natural masculinity or a man that has advanced on the path to reclaiming his natural masculinity. Life is centered on himself but he takes others into account. Doesn't feel compelled to lie or manipulate to achieve his ends. Often is or can easily be a natural with women.

The AFC - A man that models his behavior to fit the society acceptable idea of what kind of man women say they want. Life is often centered around women and success with women. Operates under the false assumption that being a nice guy will get him what he wants. Is often bitter towards women due to lack of success.

The PUA - An AFC that apes the behaviors of players and DJ's to get women. Life is centered around women, success with women and impressing other men with his proficiency with women. Operates under the false assumption that the manipulations he is using are working on the women when in reality they are mainly working on him. Often struggles HEAVILY with women and becomes bitter because he put a fistful of feathers up his a@@ but still hasn't become a peacock.

What characteristics have you guys seen that fall outside of these types? Do you think this kind of classification is useful or useless?

 

[decades]

I think you are on to something in questioning the validity and esteem that players and PUA are held with here. You see through it to the truth.

 

[reset]

It's useful. What I find interesting is the parts about being natural. If the DJ can be someone who has "reclaimed" his masculinity, and be a natural with women, does that mean he was always a "natural", just without realizing it? Like buried deep below the surface, it was always there but was covered in dirt. Like some people have a natural gift for music or sports, but they may not have known it until one day they started messing around with an instrument or a ball. Maybe one day they missed a jump-shot and they were told they were horrible at sports, so they carried that opinion about themselves even though it wasn't necessarily accurate.

What would you say is the inbetween stage of AFC and DJ? It's a pretty wide gap. Here they say recovering AFC, but that is still AFC.

 

[Colossus]

Good post.

I would say that is a good base classification system, at least for didactic purposes, but you will find that the definition of 'Don Juan' here varies considerably. Some (mostly newer) guys equate being a DJ with being a player or PUA, because they arent experienced enough to see the distinctions.

Most of the posters who have been here for a while and walk the walk agree on the tenets of a true DJ. Self-mastery, self-respect, respect of others, respect for women, social awareness and proficiency, and a well-developed life are all foundational qualities or aspects of a DJ as we define it.

You are correct in saying that no man is entirely one type; but rather a "resonance" of a few. Some guys, for various reasons, are just naturally comfortable and confident in living a positively masculine life. Some of it may be genetically innate, and some of it is undoubtedly a product of their parents and how they matured.

Others (read: most of us) have been plugged in to the matrix of western culture for most of our lives---to varying degrees. Some guys can "unplug" on their own through experiences and astute perception; others need help. I would say that most American men are part of the feminized matrix to a degree for the duration of their adult life. Most learn some things just through experience and maturity, but few ever truly disconnect and embrace living as a Man without fear of reproach.

The biggest mistake we can make in classification is to associate "DJ-ism" with men who get a lot of women. Not so. Ive learned in the last couple of years that I can lay different women every week if I want to, but that wouldnt change the fact that I would essentially be a douchebag for doing so.

Why? Because invariably in the game someone is going to get hurt, and it will likely be the one who isnt as deft at personal detachment--the woman. Men, some more than others, have the ability to personally and emotionally detach themselves from sex. This might be advantageous from an evolutionary perspective; but from a humanistic standpoint it leaves a path of emotional wreckage. This emotional wreckage does not stop with the encounter--the affected individual will likely transfer that negativity to the next partner, and so on.

On a personal note, acute sexual occurences dont exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I do have a conscience and a sense of compassion; however adept I am at personal detachment. Would I rather have a steady girlfriend as opposed to a string of sexual hook-ups? Yes. Not because I am afraid being alone, but because I realize that the grass is never greener. No matter how hot my gf is, I will always have that instinctual urge to mate with other attractive women. It will never end. But what separates us from animals is our ability to reflect. Perpetually banging the next hottest girl isnt going to improve my life, per se. It will be fun at times, no doubt, but you cant have that kind of fun with out leaving a mess.

All women are crazy and irrational at times. The other side of the fence may look so green and inviting, but often that is because it's where the dogs are sh!tting. You just have to find one that you like, who respects you and your life and deals with your own bullsh!t, and make the best. And that's what this site and a few others are about: giving you the tools to do so. Enlightenment, revision, application.

 

[DJCT]

The biggest mistake we can make in classification is to associate "DJ-ism" with men who get a lot of women. Not so. Ive learned in the last couple of years that I can lay different women every week if I want to, but that wouldnt change the fact that I would essentially be a douchebag for doing so.

Why? Because invariably in the game someone is going to get hurt, and it will likely be the one who isnt as deft at personal detachment--the woman. Men, some more than others, have the ability to personally and emotionally detach themselves from sex. This might be advantageous from an evolutionary perspective; but from a humanistic standpoint it leaves a path of emotional wreckage. This emotional wreckage does not stop with the encounter--the affected individual will likely transfer that negativity to the next partner, and so on.

On a personal note, acute sexual occurences dont exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I do have a conscience and a sense of compassion; however adept I am at personal detachment. Would I rather have a steady girlfriend as opposed to a string of sexual hook-ups? Yes. Not because I am afraid being alone, but because I realize that the grass is never greener. No matter how hot my gf is, I will always have that instinctual urge to mate with other attractive women. It will never end. But what separates us from animals is our ability to reflect. Perpetually banging the next hottest girl isnt going to improve my life, per se. It will be fun at times, no doubt, but you cant have that kind of fun with out leaving a mess.

I'm curious: why do you say somebody will get hurt, that you will be a douchebag and that you will leave a trail of emotional wreckage by having sex with several different women? You aren't responsible for her emotional state or what she brings to future relationships. If you respect somebody you will allow them to take responsibility for their own emotions and conduct. There is nothing morally right or wrong about wanting to have sex with multiple different woman or following up on that if you are not in an exclusive relationship (well, I guess it depends on your religion and culture).

I disagree with this idea that sex always has emotional overtones for the woman.

Women use the lure of sex as the primary way to hook a man. The only time they get emotional is when they sought to manipulate and hook the man through sex and it didn't work. So think of it this way: the only ones you are hurting are the ones that sought to manipulate you anyway.

Women are as much capable of having one night stands zero with emotional involvement as men are. If you don't particularly enjoy one night stands then that is one thing. If you do enjoy them though, don't burden yourself by making responsibility for a woman's actions and feelings your own.

 

[Colossus]

I'm curious: why do you say somebody will get hurt, that you will be a douchebag and that you will leave a trail of emotional wreckage by having sex with several different women? You aren't responsible for her emotional state or what she brings to future relationships. If you respect somebody you will allow them to take responsibility for their own emotions and conduct. There is nothing morally right or wrong about wanting to have sex with multiple different woman or following up on that if you are not in an exclusive relationship (well, I guess it depends on your religion and culture).

I disagree with this idea that sex always has emotional overtones for the woman.

Women use the lure of sex as the primary way to hook a man. The only time they get emotional is when they sought to manipulate and hook the man through sex and it didn't work. So think of it this way: the only ones you are hurting are the ones that sought to manipulate you anyway.

Women are as much capable of having one night stands zero with emotional involvement as men are. If you don't particularly enjoy one night stands then that is one thing. If you do enjoy them though, don't burden yourself by making responsibility for a woman's actions and feelings your own.

I see what you're saying; I should clarify my point a little bit.

Sleeping with sevral different women does not in itself make me a douchebag. In my experience, women are much more likely to get hurt from acute sexual encounters than men are. That's not to say they cannot be cold and calculating, but at least in my demographic this is not the norm. You are right in that we are never responsible for the actions of others, and I cant hold myself accountable for a particular woman's emotional state. But, there have been times when I knew a girl liked me a lot and that I was not interested in anything outside of sleeping with her that night, yet I did it anyway. Those occasions were **** moves on my part.

I dont particularly enjoy one night stands. In my own experience they have brought little good to either party. That is why I say some mess is usually left behind. Not a life-altering mess, but the effect is cumulative.

 

[mrRuckus]

Women are as much capable of having one night stands zero with emotional involvement as men are.

Since WHEN?

Certain women sure, but comparing 10,000 women to 10,000 men, you're going to find equal numbers? No way.

Aren't women the ones flooded with bonding hormones after sex? And men have their own hormone that makes them sleepy. Yeah i'm so emotionally attached when she's trying to cuddle me and talk while I start to snore.

And the emotional attachment men do have, as afcs, is that of "oh no if she leaves i will be having no sex!!" So it's not even attachment to her a lot of the time, but the sex.

 

[MoveYourAss...]

Loved the original post.

I agree very much with Colossus. It's a pleasure reading "my own" experience from another member here. Too many seem to have the motto: Fvck them no matter what, yo brother, you're the greatest. And it works, of course.

However, on my journey towards DJ-hood I was coming from a long, ridicolous AFC-status via PUA (just as original poster described !). This was the phase when I learned some skills.
Then I was frustrated for the reasons you ascribe to the PUA, took a break of quite a few month and recently came back and actually believe beeing the closest to an integrated DJ I ever was.

I believe Colossus' point was not about SEVERAL women, only that you don't need to / shouldn't bang everything you could, even if sex is great.

In my experience, too, I was for instance able to have (actually quite amazing) sex-only with a very "good" girl, but I was seeing that she couldn't handle it emotionally. I did NOT stop in time and hurt her badly, she took ages to recover and texted/phoned me for a whole year, although there was nothing (zero) coming back from me anymore, I made it more than clear.

Some PUA I know told me that it's her responsibility how she reacts, and there is some truth in that. If however, you gained social skills, empathy, sex skills etc. enough to see what is going on, I believe it is YOUR responsibility as a MAN or DJ to protect her as soon as you realise she can't cope.

A DJ is centered and takes great care of himself. He is not, however, a conscious-less narcissistic a$$hole. He also takes care of the people around him, as far as this lies in his possibilities / responsibility

 

[squirrels]

You like to post, don't you?

 

[Vulpine]

I could get laid any night of the week as well. However, getting laid was never a problem for me. So, I've had enough sex to know what's good and what's not-so-good. Now, I have no need to brag, but for this next point I must say I'm a miracle worker in the sack. Being such, the expression "human dildo" really hits a sore spot with me.

See, throughout my life women have been with me for the sex alone. (How can I complain, right? Well...) They've put on the show, jumped through the hoops, and been perfect little angels until something else caught their eye. Then... *poof* ...gone, with no regard for me. The bottom line? I was used, quite literally, as a human dildo. I was an awesome "Mr. Right Now". And, my AFC mindset kept me supplicating and catering to women. (Consider Tom Leykis being married four times: making the same mistake until finally catching on.)

So where does that leave me? Well, there are two major impressions I'm left with; two major motivations. First of all, I've squandered much of my life due to a lack of direction and goals. And, any goals I might have had were compromised by/for a woman. Being "Mr. Right Now" means I gave myself to the moment. Oops. Lessons learned. Second, I'm the prize. Why were all these women so anxious to swing to the next branch? Uh... because, although I was the best sex they had ever had, or probably will ever have, I was a loser. I had no goals, no ambition, no direction... no future. And WHY was I such a loser without these attributes? Because my goal was based on WOMEN, not MYSELF. Because I was so focused on women, I didn't focus on myself, and therefore ultimately failed with women.

It's an endless cycle in that regard. And, when you consider the divorce rates, I don't think that my mindset was all that unique. Some people may never arrive at where I've arrived; some may never break that cycle.

To think, an unrelated google search landed me here just as I was starting to search myself and look for the causes of my failures. "Uh... hello? What's this?" *click* :nervous:

Sure, I could probably bang any ∫lut off the street. But, before finding this site, you could say my "cost" was low. Since, I've developed the parts that have been lacking, and the "cost" has doubled. Could I go on a rampage and sport ƒuck the woman race without regard? You betcha. But, that would go against my two major impressions: it would further squander my time and share the prize with undeserving women. I've already shared enough.

Since I'm busy with my life and my development, women are at the bottom of the list of priorities. They may be eventually, but probably not before I'm retired and want to take that hobby up again.

And, I need that for a while to get back on track with my life - I need to strive for goals. I need a better purpose besides a human dildo: my batteries died a long time ago, and I need to charge them. So, it's all about me for a while.

In conclusion, I wanted to add another to the four types:

The Loser
A guy who has no motivations, direction, ambition, or goals. They might get laid due to good looks, a good personality, sexual prowess, tight game, or booze. However, since they aren't going anywhere in life, they eventually lose the women they get.