The fine line between being attractive and vetting for relationship material

[Die Hard]

I'm having difficulty with this lately.

I'm very good at seducing women, making them feel attracted to me, making their hormones rush. I just radiate confidence, make smart and witty comments, demonstrate dominance, act in a sexually attractive way etc. And so they fall for me, because I kinda sweep them off their feet, as if I injected them with some drug that makes them feel high.

Great, so the girl feels attracted to me. Then the texting game begins and I try to get her to meet up with me, and so we meet, and so we have a good time together, and so we end up in bed, and so we have more good times together etc etc. In the meantime, I try to find out if she's a good match for a long term relationship, because that's what I'm really after.
Almost always, it turns out she isn't... And eventually, we go our own ways.

I'm tired of going through that whole process. I want to find out if she's a good long term match as soon as possible! But I've noticed that it turns women off if I do that. Like if I start asking too many questions too fast in order to determine how much of a 'relationship material' she is, she will lose interest. I get it, it probably makes me seem "boring", too serious, no fun etc.
In general, women chase a man when he's not hinting at getting into a serious relationship but is actually doing the opposite and acts like he doesn't want to get "trapped" into a relationship with one girl, because he'd rather be independent and have fun with multiple girls. It's like, instinctually, women want to convince a man to go for a relationship with just them, they want him to choose her above all the other girls and commit to her.
If the guy gives her that commitment too easily, she feels 'bored' or feels that he posed not enough challenge for her to make her feel special, as if he is so desperate for a relationship that he will just accept any girl that offers it to him.

Blah blah blah, so when you give them too many signs too early that you're looking for a serious relationship, it will drive them away. I've tested this plenty of times, it's just how they're wired.

But I'm sick and tired of dating and investing in that whole process, only to find out after weeks or months that the girl is not a good match for me. I'm getting old and I want to start a family, so I want to find a good woman who will give me a stable relationship and be a good mother to my children. Of course I don't tell them that, but it often shows through my behavior, they notice that I'm a serious guy with serious intentions and it drives them away.

So I just have to keep it a secret lol. I have to put on a mask and play the role of the guy I described earlier, the one who doesn't need women except for fun and doesn't want to get trapped in a relationship etc. Once we get through that first phase of dating, having good sex, having a lot of fun together, they always start their attempts to pin me down and want me to go for a serious relationship. If I try to seriously determine whether she is a good long term match before this moment, I drive her away lol.
But at that point, I've already invested quite some time and effort into her, and many times I've also developed some feelings for her by that time. It's too late, for my taste... I need to form my opinion about her earlier.

So yeah, it's a balancing act. I want to know whether she's a good fit for settling down and eventually starting a family. But I can't be too direct in my attempts to evaluate her on the one hand, and I don't want to invest too much time and effort in her before I find my answer on the other hand.

Anyone else recognize this?

 

[Clockwerk50]

It takes emotional maturity to understand that no one is perfect and that most of us have red flags.

Having said that, as you get older or consider settling down, your standards might shift. Also, women who are ready to settle down or who feel time is running out may be more receptive to more of your direct questions regarding relationship values.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Anyone else recognize this?

Yeah, I’ve recognized many women these days are anti-social and retarded, and do not want to be beholden to even the most desirable men on earth (eg. Will Smith, Ben Affleck, Brad Pitt, Tom Brady, and so on).

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I'm very good at seducing women, making them feel attracted to me, making their hormones rush. I just radiate confidence, make smart and witty comments, demonstrate dominance, act in a sexually attractive way etc. And so they fall for me, because I kinda sweep them off their feet, as if I injected them with some drug that makes them feel high.

Not gonna lie, this almost gave me a chubby.

Anyway, you're good at seducing bimbos. Doesn't mean you're good with women. You project an image and they fall for that, which automatically lowers their value to you as they're clearly not perceptive enough to see how you fake your confidence.

It's a conundrum. You can get who wants you, but not who you want.

Guess if you want a longterm girlfriend you need to level up and pursue a higher quality of women, not the bimbos who fall for your seduction schtick.

 

[jhonny9546]

Not gonna lie, this almost gave me a chubby.

Anyway, you're good at seducing bimbos. Doesn't mean you're good with women. You project an image and they fall for that, which automatically lowers their value to you as they're clearly not perceptive enough to see how you fake your confidence.

It's a conundrum. You can get who wants you, but not who you want.

Guess if you want a longterm girlfriend you need to level up and pursue a higher quality of women, not the bimbos who fall for your seduction schtick.

This is an oxymoron about my personality: people can fall in love with me because of the contrary. I'm not good at seducing or forcing a particular behavior, but it just takes my presence to create an experience with her that makes her want me again. (Don't ask me why)

If this could help you, just try to act less "seductive" and see what happens.
At this point, you'll filter women passively, since now not many women may be attracted to you, but the "right" ones will come.

You might want to try this approach and see how it goes, then report back to the forum.

 

[DreamAgain]

You played with the double edge sword of not locking up a good one early. They are rare, and yes, they do get locked up early. Many men are in your position, some due to their own choosing, some due to circumstances beyond their control.

 

[Solomon]

I get what OP is trying to say OP i'm curious are you meeting these women out in the field or dating apps. Personally I think vetting for long term potential doesn't happen overnight short term i vet for attraction (If I'm attracted to her etc), logistics (how far is she from me) time and personality (are we compatible or not). Once the basics are established and we start spending more time together I take it from there but I never go into meeting a woman thinking long term. This is a quick way to become needy and build your hopes up just to be disappointed. I use to in my younger years but 99% of the women you're lucky to see again after a first date or so. Also most women you'll meet even if they are attractive may not be relationship material. With OLD you play the game but even then I tell women "I'm looking for romantic companionship" or tell them the traits that I look for in a woman, I keep it vague for a reason because the truth is 99% of women online don't qualify and If you meet a girl infield the numbers are similar too

Yeah, I’ve recognized many women these days are anti-social and retarded, and do not want to be beholden to even the most desirable men on earth (eg. Will Smith, Ben Affleck, Brad Pitt, Tom Brady, and so on).

^^The social decline of women in the last 20 years has been shocking to the point that now the average masculine woman is accepted. Women on first dates wanting to talk about gender identity politics or politics in general was unheard of 20 years ago heck even 10 years ago. I started this becoming more mainstream during #Metoo era (2016) a lot of women are just very unruly, and lack feminine energy. The ones that do tend to be sowed up or highly sought after. I miss the days of a girly girl

I personally notice when I did foreign women the level of feminity compared to the average American woman is not even close

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yes because there is a process to get to that point that you have to go thru.

It would be like a person who says they want to speed up building a building by skipping laying the foundation and just build straight up.

Unfortunately, the foundation is what allows you to build the building straight up and what keeps it standing long term.

Shortcuts rarely exist in life and usually the people that take them end up paying the price.

In your case, you could try to take a shortcut but you'd find that you end up missing red flags that you are finding now and these women would slip thru the cracks.

 

[jhonny9546]

Unfortunately, the foundation is what allows you to build the building straight up and what keeps it standing long term.

Mostly of the relationships that turn into families and marriages are those from:

below 18's: school, childhood social groups
after 18's: social groups, job

So i saw 99% of my friends get their partner from those groups, and since you've been "forced" many years with the same person in that circle, then it turn that you take her as your partner. (incompatibility rate is really high but those people try to do "sacrifice" to keep their relationship).

The great question is how to find a woman after your 25's, and enable her to have a deep emotional connection with you, like those relationship that happen to create in childhood.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Mostly of the relationships that turn into families and marriages are those from:

below 18's: school, childhood social groups
after 18's: social groups, job

So i saw 99% of my friends get their partner from those groups, and since you've been "forced" many years with the same person in that circle, then it turn that you take her as your partner. (incompatibility rate is really high but those people try to do "sacrifice" to keep their relationship).

The great question is how to find a woman after your 25's, and enable her to have a deep emotional connection with you, like those relationship that happen to create in childhood.

Not really. That would be a low percentage most likely.

 

[jhonny9546]

Not really. That would be a low percentage most likely.

I mean, my friends got into relatioships, even toxic ones, and stay there, because they fear to be single and the stigma of being single is not socially acceptable. (for them).

GIven this, even if those relationships are bluepilled, toxic, and not worthy, are still worthy the emotional connection you get since you've met this person in your childhood?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

GIven this, even if those relationships are bluepilled, toxic, and not worthy, are still worthy the emotional connection you get since you've met this person in your childhood?

No.

Like everyone knows, better no relationship than a bad relationship.

 

[jhonny9546]

No.

Like everyone knows, better no relationship than a bad relationship.

So why we as human do this thing? We keep those emotional connection alive, just because the fear of abandonment?

Also there is the fantasy of "changing" the problematic man to make it better.
This is what some women want to do, from my understanding, even tho they can't help themselves to recognize this is a bad thing, and still do it.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

So why we as human do this thing? We keep those emotional connection alive, just because the fear of abandonment?

And the fear of being judged by people who shouldn't care about.

Also there is the fantasy of "changing" the problematic man to make it better.

Women in general know better than to consider me a 'project'.

This is what some women want to do, from my understanding, even tho they can't help themselves to recognize this is a bad thing, and still do it.

Read one 'romance novel' and you'll understand.

 

[Die Hard]

I guess I'm just tired of it all and need a break from women. Got out of a relationship 6 months ago and don't enjoy meeting new women. I can't enjoy the superficial stuff of building attraction, playful banter, flirting and having chemistry, because she and I might not be compatible beyond that. So it's like I want to know whether we can connect on a deeper level and whether we are a good match for a healthy relationship first, and if I would know that I would be okay to engage in the more superficial stuff.
But it doesn't work like that, you can't approach the process of getting to know each other like it's a business deal or a job interview. Initial attraction, joking, flirting, having fun together, are like the groundwork for building a more serious connection.
I guess I've just experienced too many disappointing relationships to the point where I can't enjoy the initial phase of meeting someone new, because that initial phase might turn out to have been pointless once you discover that she and you are not compatible in the long run.
When I think back of many exes, we had such joy and were so in love in the beginning, but in the end we broke up and then those good times we had earlier seem pointless.
I guess I might be fearful of that at the moment, afraid of having such a good time with someone and building up something positive, only to experience it all crumbling down between us in the end.
I guess I'm just afraid of getting disappointed after initially having a nice time with someone.

 

[Chow Mein]

I guess I'm just tired of it all and need a break from women. Got out of a relationship 6 months ago and don't enjoy meeting new women. I can't enjoy the superficial stuff of building attraction, playful banter, flirting and having chemistry, because she and I might not be compatible beyond that. So it's like I want to know whether we can connect on a deeper level and whether we are a good match for a healthy relationship first, and if I would know that I would be okay to engage in the more superficial stuff.
But it doesn't work like that, you can't approach the process of getting to know each other like it's a business deal or a job interview. Initial attraction, joking, flirting, having fun together, are like the groundwork for building a more serious connection.
I guess I've just experienced too many disappointing relationships to the point where I can't enjoy the initial phase of meeting someone new, because that initial phase might turn out to have been pointless once you discover that she and you are not compatible in the long run.
When I think back of many exes, we had such joy and were so in love in the beginning, but in the end we broke up and then those good times we had earlier seem pointless.
I guess I might be fearful of that at the moment, afraid of having such a good time with someone and building up something positive, only to experience it all crumbling down between us in the end.
I guess I'm just afraid of getting disappointed after initially having a nice time with someone.

Thanks for this, it’s somewhat hard to see another poster’s situation. Really appreciate the candor.

I recently met a girl for a couple of months, we clicked instantly. It built from there, slowly you see some flags and initially disregard them. Last week, she said along the lines of if you are like this, you shouldn’t come back. I was at her place sleeping on the couch with her cat, simply told her ‘I hear you, you don’t have to tell me twice’ Packed up my stuff and gone in 60 seconds.

The flags are there, you just happen to have the experience of seeing these flags. A relationship is a compromise, that take a lot of searching. The feeling you might feel is the agony of qualifying, you are doing your diligence to filter out the incompatible ones. It does take a toll on you, might not even see any light at the end of the tunnel. Every relationship you build pushes you forward.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I guess I'm just tired of it all and need a break from women. Got out of a relationship 6 months ago and don't enjoy meeting new women. I can't enjoy the superficial stuff of building attraction, playful banter, flirting and having chemistry, because she and I might not be compatible beyond that. So it's like I want to know whether we can connect on a deeper level and whether we are a good match for a healthy relationship first, and if I would know that I would be okay to engage in the more superficial stuff.

This is just my opinion here, because I don't know you at all, but from what I read, it sounds like the break-up affected you more than you're realise and you're absolutely right about taking a break. Not from women, but from dating.

We sometimes talk about emotional baggage. This is what emotional baggage is like, you can't enjoy what you used to enjoy because it's too closely associated with a negative experience. You have to wipe the slate clean so you can find the joy again in meeting and courting a new prospect for a relationship. Right now, the hurt is still too raw and you cannot find the right mindset to deal with the mercurial side of dating. Some people might urge you to 'move on', but maybe you just need a little more time to regain your passion for entering into another relationship. Some people need a week, some six months, some take a year. You should take as much time as you need to get yourself back together again. That other people would be over the break-up in three months doesn't mean you have to be. It's not a competition.

But it doesn't work like that, you can't approach the process of getting to know each other like it's a business deal or a job interview. Initial attraction, joking, flirting, having fun together, are like the groundwork for building a more serious connection.

You can approach like that, but you don't want to. And I believe you're right about that. Interacting with someone who might end up an influence in your life is not just about matching interests and goals. If there's no chemistry, if you don't have fun together, you might both have similar interests and goals, but a relationship is not a business deal (until you get married, then you need to realise your wedding papers are a 'contract' and you should be well aware of the terms and conditions, but that's for another topic).

I guess I've just experienced too many disappointing relationships to the point where I can't enjoy the initial phase of meeting someone new, because that initial phase might turn out to have been pointless once you discover that she and you are not compatible in the long run.

If you're recovering from a stomach flu you won't enjoy any food. Basically, all food will remind you of violent stomach cramps and puking your guts out. The memory of that has to fade before you can enjoy food again.
With time and distance you can analyse where you (and her) went wrong in the relationship and you can have the clarity to not repeat the same issues with a new lover.

When I think back of many exes, we had such joy and were so in love in the beginning, but in the end we broke up and then those good times we had earlier seem pointless.

Before the stomach flu, you enjoyed many meals, but now all you remember is how they ended up like smelly turds in the toilet. You don't remember how delicious the food is, so the food is now only associated with how food tends to end up after it passed through your body.

I guess I might be fearful of that at the moment, afraid of having such a good time with someone and building up something positive, only to experience it all crumbling down between us in the end.

All food, from a McD burger to a five-course five-star Michelin dinner, ends up in the toilet. And if you eat the wrong food, you might end up with food poisoning or another stomach flu. Throughout your life, you will repeatedly end up puking your guts out and not enjoying food anymore, but you have to eat to live.
Luckily, dating women doesn't have the same urgency as eating food, but if you're fearful that you might end up making the wrong choices or not handling dating/relationship situations well, you need more time to get back on the horse.
Some people will tell you to get back on the horse immediately, because that is the only way to overcome your fear of being thrown off the horse, but I disagree. Maybe you shouldn't ride horses. Maybe you should ride a pony. Or a bicycle.
Maybe/Probably, the women you've had relationships with in the past were never a good fit. Pretty much everyone can learn to ride a pony, but not all people can ride horses, certainly not the more temperamental Arabian horses that require more effort and experience to bend to your will.

I guess I'm just afraid of getting disappointed after initially having a nice time with someone.

Understandable. I suggest not dating anyone for the moment. You don't need to avoid contact with women, but don't look for a relationship. Give yourself time to lick your wounds and heal, and clear out the negative feedback loop that makes you doubt yourself and your capabilities, and get back your positive mindset.

 

[Die Hard]

This is just my opinion here, because I don't know you at all, but from what I read, it sounds like the break-up affected you more than you're realise and you're absolutely right about taking a break. Not from women, but from dating.

We sometimes talk about emotional baggage. This is what emotional baggage is like, you can't enjoy what you used to enjoy because it's too closely associated with a negative experience. You have to wipe the slate clean so you can find the joy again in meeting and courting a new prospect for a relationship. Right now, the hurt is still too raw and you cannot find the right mindset to deal with the mercurial side of dating. Some people might urge you to 'move on', but maybe you just need a little more time to regain your passion for entering into another relationship. Some people need a week, some six months, some take a year. You should take as much time as you need to get yourself back together again. That other people would be over the break-up in three months doesn't mean you have to be. It's not a competition.


You can approach like that, but you don't want to. And I believe you're right about that. Interacting with someone who might end up an influence in your life is not just about matching interests and goals. If there's no chemistry, if you don't have fun together, you might both have similar interests and goals, but a relationship is not a business deal (until you get married, then you need to realise your wedding papers are a 'contract' and you should be well aware of the terms and conditions, but that's for another topic).


If you're recovering from a stomach flu you won't enjoy any food. Basically, all food will remind you of violent stomach cramps and puking your guts out. The memory of that has to fade before you can enjoy food again.
With time and distance you can analyse where you (and her) went wrong in the relationship and you can have the clarity to not repeat the same issues with a new lover.


Before the stomach flu, you enjoyed many meals, but now all you remember is how they ended up like smelly turds in the toilet. You don't remember how delicious the food is, so the food is now only associated with how food tends to end up after it passed through your body.


All food, from a McD burger to a five-course five-star Michelin dinner, ends up in the toilet. And if you eat the wrong food, you might end up with food poisoning or another stomach flu. Throughout your life, you will repeatedly end up puking your guts out and not enjoying food anymore, but you have to eat to live.
Luckily, dating women doesn't have the same urgency as eating food, but if you're fearful that you might end up making the wrong choices or not handling dating/relationship situations well, you need more time to get back on the horse.
Some people will tell you to get back on the horse immediately, because that is the only way to overcome your fear of being thrown off the horse, but I disagree. Maybe you shouldn't ride horses. Maybe you should ride a pony. Or a bicycle.
Maybe/Probably, the women you've had relationships with in the past were never a good fit. Pretty much everyone can learn to ride a pony, but not all people can ride horses, certainly not the more temperamental Arabian horses that require more effort and experience to bend to your will.


Understandable. I suggest not dating anyone for the moment. You don't need to avoid contact with women, but don't look for a relationship. Give yourself time to lick your wounds and heal, and clear out the negative feedback loop that makes you doubt yourself and your capabilities, and get back your positive mindset.

Great post, I appreciate you taking the time to write this to me!