The final phonecall

[krd]

My other thread was getting kind of long, so I decided to continue the topic on a new one. For those who need the background information, here's the original thread.

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28305

Well, after a couple of days of stressing out, the time finally came for me to call and try and make plans with this girl. Just as I said I would do, I had a print out of Pimpology’s post on setting up the first date right by me, just in case. I basically followed his advice as closely as I could. I started with a bit of smalltalk—asking her how her week went, how finals were coming along. She said everything was fine; she was in the process of studying for finals, although it was for a relatively easy class. I told her about what I’d been doing, just had a doctor’s appointment—real exciting. Didn’t go into detail, of course. I moved quickly to doing what I set out to do, setting up the date. I asked if she was free Friday or Saturday—she said she was going up to NH on Friday, and working on Saturday. I asked her if she was free any other days, she said she didn’t know, she’d have to wait and see. I suggested that if she’s free at some point, we go out for something to eat, she basically said “sound’s good”, but didn’t bother to make any counter offers or give me any indication that she cared at all. I then said she could call me back sometime if she was free--she had my number. I wished her good luck with her final and said goodbye. I basically felt that she was pacifying me, so that I wouldn’t be upset, even though she wasn’t the least bit interested.

I think the time is fast approaching for me to give up on this girl. I’m certainly not going to waste my time making a fool of myself. As I told her, she has my number—she can call me anytime. But if she doesn’t, I’m not going to call her again. I’m even wondering if I should answer if she does call. Although, she may be harder to avoid, since I called her from my home phone today instead of my cell. She probably has that number on her caller ID as well, so I won’t have any way of knowing it’s her when I pick up the phone. If I answer and it’s her, should I even bring up the subject of setting up a date again? I’m thinking it would just make me look like a chump. I’m probably better off just cutting the conversation short and saying something like “sorry, I’ve got a ton of stuff to do—talk to you later”. Because if she’s not interested, there really isn’t any good reason for me to continue talking to this girl. Am I right?

But I’m not going to hold my breath over this happening. I think it’s safe to say I’ve heard from her for the last time. It’s just so discouraging, because once again, I’m right back where I started. The whole thing fell apart right where it always falls apart---when I try to set up a date. I never make any real progress—I just keep going around in circles. Now that the semester is over, there are much fewer, if any, opportunities for me to meet women. And after making it this far, it’s frustrating to have to go all the way back to square one again.

Of course, I can’t help wondering where I went wrong. Why did something that seemed so promising at first so quickly fizzle out? There’s always been something that’s prevented me from getting as far as I want to go. Maybe this time, I let the phone conversation go on for too long on Sunday. Perhaps I said something that turned her off to me. When people ask me questions, I tend to always give honest, straightfoward answers--I'm not good at bending the truth or making something up. I admitted to her that I lived with my mom, that I currently was not working--who knows, maybe those revelations spelled out the big “l” word for her (no, not "love"). When I called her today, I tried my best to act calm and confident, even though my stomach was tied up in about twelve knots. Perhaps I overcompensated and came off as cold and insincere, kind of like a phone salesman. Or maybe she just likes the attention from guys—doesn’t matter who it is (why would I be so special?) Whatever the reason, this story ends just like all the other’s do, and I can’t say I’ve learned anything from the experience, because it’s really nothing new. Seriously, can anybody really expect to make no mistakes at any point during the process? And how much does one or two mistakes contribute to the overall outcome? I don’t know why I even bother sometimes. It’s always one disappointment after another.

 

[TesuqueRed]

Originally posted by krd
Some minor points...

...I asked if she was free Friday or Saturday

ding ding ding: have a plan---this is open ended and gives her all the control and tells her you're entirely available and easy. Pick a day---that is YOU pick a day and an event and see if she's up for it. Here you're fishing and hoping and desperate and available for anything she's doing. You have nothing else going on except to wait on her. Notice that she, meanwhile, has plans and is following them...

—she said she was going up to NH on Friday, and working on Saturday.

I asked her if she was free any other days, she said she didn’t know, she’d have to wait and see.

This just hammers home what she sensed when you waffled on the "Friday or Saturday" thing.

I suggested that if she’s free at some point, we go out for something to eat, she basically said “sound’s good”, but didn’t bother to make any counter offers or give me any indication that she cared at all.

The game is already decided at this point, you're in garbage time. It all happens so fast, doesn't it? 3 minutes on the phone, maybe less, and you're in a game you can't win but have to play it out: garbage time. And that's what follows...

I then said she could call me back sometime if she was free--she had my number. I wished her good luck with her final and said goodbye. I basically felt that she was pacifying me, so that I wouldn’t be upset, even though she wasn’t the least bit interested.

Of course, I can’t help wondering where I went wrong.

Been there, my friend, and it sucks. Looking back, a strong woman wants, needs and looks for a stronger man. This is what all these tests are about. She and you can tell within moments who is stronger--it's a chemical or biological thing, but you both know if you're open to it. For some, simply having the balls to call her up and ask will get her attention, for others, it's dealing with their rejection. Again, for some, it's handling them in their crazy moods. It is what it is, beating yourself up over it only retards your development.

 

[krd]

TesuqueRed, I don't know if you've read my other thread, but I did actually have a plan. I was going to take her out to eat at one of my favorite pizza places around 6:30 on Friday or Saturday. I gave her the days, but not the time--perhaps I should have been more specific. But I was merely following Pimpology's procedure on setting up a date; if you read his post, you'll see what I mean. This is not to say that I don't accept complete responsibility for what happened. All I'm saying is that I didn't pull that strategy out of thin air. Okay, so maybe it doesn't work like I thought--well then, all DJ's take note!

So a strong woman wants a stronger man. Makes sense. However, I don't know if that's how I would describe this girl. Talking to her, she'd been attending college for only a couple of semesters, possibly quite fresh out of high school. As I described in my previous post, on the phone I found her to be quite giggly and the topics of conversation, although fun, were pretty random and not what would be considered very deep--one of the reasons I changed my plan from visiting an art gallery to a simple dinner date. But maybe she had me fooled; maybe she's really got it together. I guess there's no rule that says you can't be flaky and strong at the same time. Which just makes things more complicated for me, because I obviously don't have things together. And if I haven't figured it out yet, who's to say I ever will?

 

[Unbridled_1]

krd,

pick one day and a time. do you understand that part. No x or y. It is "x night would you like to go to so and so with me." Stop being so available, you reek of desperation.

 

[krd]

Okay, so basically what you guys are saying is not to listen to the post by Pimpology. Not that I care--I just happened to come across his post and that's what I based it on. I'm certainly not indebted to any one philosophy--if it don't work, try something else. I guess I just want to be clear that this is indeed what you are saying and that I'm not simply misreading his post.

 

[Escude]

no Unbridled is saying that you gave 2 days but seemed too available. When Pimpology gave 2 days in his example he was quite specific allowing a choice between 2 definite times to increase his odds. You gave 2 open ended choices allowing a girl to back out. Its subtle but it makes a difference... jedi mind trick?

Also, you offered Friday or Saturday... personally I like to use weekday dates better in the beginning; keeps them shorter and also the chances of them being available are much higher. Cool girls in general tend to have weekends booked or will book them until you are cool and desirable enough in their eyes to be their top choice for weekend activities.

Finally, none of us had a hidden camera Blind Date style so we couldn't see all that happened on each date.

If you really want to learn, sit down and write down some of the events that happened in this experience, starting from first meeting, first phone call, first date, events in between, and write down all the ways you did things the right way, and more importantly ways in which you were a wuss.

Do this maybe in a day or two when your mind is a little more settled and you can think objectively. Be brutally honest it will help you in future endeavors.

 

[Rev]

I guess it's not in Pimpologist's post but I believe it is bad practice to try to set up 1st dates on the weekend. You basically told her you were free on both Friday and Saturday nights (you already have hot dates on those nights, silly ).

Well now school is out. I don't know what to tell you. College is the perfect opportunity to meet girls. I'd give anything to go back but I've already graduated after 6 painful AFC years and no exsistence of Internet discussion forums like this.

All I can tell you is not to spend your summer planning how to girl. Submerse yourself in an activity which involves other people and concentrate on that. Also, I would recommend you watch 'The Tao of Steve' if you haven't already. Additionally, something tells me that your testosterone level is low. You really need to start hitting the weights if you aren't already.

 

[krd]

Escude, one thing about me is that I have no problem being brutally honest with myself. So here goes.

First meeting:
I think here, maybe I revealed a bit too much about myself. She asked my age; I said I was 24. Instinctually, I thought she’d be impressed with my age, since I’ve heard that girls generally like older guys. But my friend tells me this is a big myth and that I might have been better off avoiding the question somehow.

When I told her my age, she assumed I had graduated, I said I hadn’t yet. I told her I was most likely going to change my major, since I wasn’t doing well in Music, and it was just getting to be too much. Maybe she saw me as someone who’s a slacker or a quitter.

She said she lived in town and I understood, but I ended up asking her where she was from—meaning where she grew up. She said she had already told me, and I knew that—but perhaps it appeared that I wasn’t really listening.

When I went for the number, neither one of us had a pen, so for about a minute, I was fishing through my pockets. I may have come across as awkward and unprepared. I ended up having to ask one of the guys at the security desk if I could borrow one. I actually brought one, but I had momentarily forgotten it was mine and ended up giving it to a friend of mine, thinking he’d loaned it to me.

When I handed her the piece of paper to write it down, I could see my hand was shaking—perhaps she noticed this too and could tell how nervous I was.

And finally, I didn't use any kino. This is really hard for me and I may not have had the courage to do it anyway, but I figure it’s worth mentioning.

First phone call:
I let the phone ring about six times, because I figured a machine would answer, but it didn’t. It may have been too many rings and it may have seemed I was overly eager to talk to her or something. When she did call me back a few minutes later, I may have basically just talked for too long, for as I said, she was the one who ended the phone call, instead of me, which is what really should have happened. I meant to just tell her where the event is, what time it was at and invite her to come along, but she seemed to want to make small talk, and I just went with it. She mentioned a bee flying into her room, and that she was afraid of bees—I said I was too, as a kid, and still avoid them if I can. I was just running off the top of my head, making conversation, but I guess that’s a bad move as a DJ--admitting your fears. She mentioned it being Mother’s Day. I asked her what she got her mom and I may have told her what I got mine, which is probably an AFC topic--talking about your parents, or admitting they exist. She apologized for not being able to make the event—I really wasn’t that disappointed; I was just so happy she called me back, but I didn’t quite know how to respond to her apology. I just said, “That’s fine”, but perhaps she thought I was really disappointed and I’d made her feel bad.

Second phone call:
Boy, a ton of things could’ve gone wrong here. Just the fact that I allowed myself to be on the phone for that long and let her end the phone call made me look like I had nothing better to do. She asked if she had mentioned the bee that flew into her room and how she hated them. (she is apparently a fan of very random topics) I said she did and again mentioned my childhood fear of them. She asked me if I worked a job—I said I didn’t (again, “slacker”, perhaps) although I mentioned that the job market was tough, and I may try to get one for the summer. She asked me if I lived with my parents—I said yes (I don’t know, maybe it would have been better to just flat out lie). Also there were other people in the background, and she kept talking to her friend during the conversation. When there are a bunch of girls together in a room, it’s fertile ground for some harsh words. Who knows what they may have been thinking or saying about me? There were probably a bunch of other things I said wrong, but really, this phone call probably should have never happened in the first place. I was so happy she called that I went along with it, but I probably should have said I had other things to do.

Third phone call (asking her out):
Well, here’s the part where I think it’s unanimous that I made some crucial mistakes. When I suggested the two days we could meet, I failed to give a specific time, (didn’t read the post carefully enough). I probably should have set up a date in the middle of the week, although I don’t know if I would have had enough time to figure out how I would do it. A weekend date would buy me more time, and I explained to my brother the whole “middle of the week” philosophy about dating and he basically told me in no uncertain terms that it was the biggest load of crap he’d ever heard. He’s only 17, but he has had about three girlfriends already, so he is more experienced than me. Perhaps I let his opinion sway me. Also, my tone of voice on the phone could have come off as kind of cold and insincere—kind of like the “fake friendliness” that you get from a telemarketer trying to sell you insurance. I was just so nervous and trying my best to come off as calm and cool, that it may have been my downfall. I tried a little playful ribbing—she laughingly mentioned she stole a bunch of mugs from the school cafeteria. I said “Oh, so you’re a thief now”, but quickly added “Well, I’m sure they’ve got plenty of them, anyway.” So either I was too harsh here, or too agreeable. Or both. I really have no clue.

There may be a bunch of other mistakes that I don’t remember, forgot to mention, or simply don’t realize, but I did my best to cover ‘em all. Good chance I’ll probably think of more later.

And what did I do right? Well I think it’s pretty obvious: I went for the number and she gave it to me. I was also able to call her twice to make plans. Considering how I was racked with nerves all week about it and going nuts, I was still able to go through with it. I’d say that’s a positive thing.

Rev, I haven’t been attending school this semester for reasons I won’t get into now, but at least there were events on campus that I could attend during this time, which my friend would tell me about or invite me to. I’ll have to figure out what kinds of activities “involving other people” are available in the summer. As of right now I have no idea, although I’m still considering taking a summer job. And I do go to the gym everyday and work out, although I missed a few days this week because I was sick. But I have started back up today. I have heard “The Tao Of Steve” mentioned here, but I guess I haven’t paid much attention. Is it a movie? A TV show? I guess I’ll have to do a search.

And if anybody has any additional feedback about my situation, bring it on. I’m always willing to learn (although seldom do).

 

[matius]

TesuqueRed - Awesome post, especially the last bit about tests. So damn true dammit.

 

[matius]

krd- reading your last post makes me think of myself which is why i'm glad i stopped reading half way through it. i gotta get better at this too, but, the reason chicks don't want to hang out is because we worry about every friggin little detail of what was said, what wasn't said, etc...i'm in the same boat...but if ANYTHING...the quickest lesson i'm learning is to erase any questions period. i don't give a damn, she's out with me i'll say whatava, i'll do whatava, i'll think whatava (within reason DUUDZ!)...if she ain't down with it then i'm out...that's the new me. today. today, not yesterday, today.

stop thinking! that's my tip for the day.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

Originally posted by krd
Escude, one thing about me is that I have no problem being brutally honest with myself. So here goes.
[snip]

Wow, great post, you really were brutal in your honesty. That's a crucial step, understanding, acknowledging and confronting your fears will have you mastering this stuff pretty quickly.

I think you should try doing some of the earlier weeks of the bootcamp, just to raise your conf levels, stop your hands shaking on future occasions (I feel for ya man).

You're doing great, keep it up.

Oscar.

 

[Escude]

you're beating up on yourself a little..

about your age.. don't worry at some point she's going to ask you. what are you going to do? lie? thats not cool. so don't worry about that. You're 24... that's a great age.

as you can see, the overall theme is hanging on the phone gives them chances to find out all about you therefore unless you are a mack on the phone and can make them even more interested (very hard) you're basically giving yourself away. also things sound different over the phone than in person. So that's a very important lesson.

about your fears... look its OK to mention things you don't like or are a little afraid of. its bad to perseverate or fixate on them. If you can mention them but add a humorous twist or story it may actually work in your advantage. You're shooting to become Don Juan, not Jesus.

As for your brother and the whole weekday/weekend thing there's no hard and fast rule. if a girl likes you enough and both of you end up being free on a weekend go for it. I think the hardest rule for all of us to learn is: There are no rules.

Rules help in early stages because it increases your probabilities, but as you get better you'll find out that by playing your own set of rules you've increased your chances just as much as following a Set of Rules increases your chances above that of an AFC.

 

[TesuqueRed]

I don't think this situation is over. He's down but not out--at least, from her response or what I've heard of it, that is...

The asking out didn't work, but I don't think she's slammed the door just yet. He just didn't have the game down at that point and she couldn't give in too easily.

Not sure what to recommend at this point except to be funny and friendly when you see her next, but pull back for a little while and engage socially with others (especially if she is around.)

The game continues....

 

[krd]

Just an update--I just got off the phone with my friend. Turns out, he is staying for the summer after all, to take some courses. So it looks like we'll still be able to get together. I'm really grateful to him; he really tries to help me out with women. We're both kind of on the same level, only he's a bit more experienced and has been out on dates and had a few relationships. We are planning in the near future to go to the mall and practice talking to women, maybe get a few numbers, expand our wardrobes, etc. As for summer activities, he suggested I take some summer courses as well. Since I am in the process of choosing a new major, it may help me explore and get a better idea of what I might want to do with my life. Plus the classes will probably have some cute girls there as well.

But I'm not going to actively pursue this girl anymore. If I see her again over the summer, great, but that's really a longshot. Most likely, I won't see her again until fall, and she'll probably have found somebody else by then anyway. The game will continue, just not with her, most likely. I guess I still just gotta learn to play the game correctly, and more importantly, to stop being afraid to play it at all.