The Fear of Intimacy Thread

Mr. Me

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No one is 'afraid of intimacy'. This is yet more feminized jingoism like "men have fragile egos" or "men are threatened by successful women"
Absolutely. You left out "he's emotionally unavailable" tossed out sometimes when it's not really the case.

and lets not forget "he's commitment-phobic", all brought to you by Oprah & Dr. Phil.
That may qualify too, but it's brought to you by Carter & Sokol in their books "Men Who Can't Love" and "He's Scared, She's Scared" (the latter expounding on female "commitment-phobes"). They coined the phrase based on both their own experiences (they're male and female) and in interviewing hundreds of others who professed to be commitmentphobic and others who were in relationships with alleged CPs (Commitment-Phobes).

As such, it's not even a scientific study at all but more of a poll. It's not even a medical term. It's jargon.

Anyhow, I bring that background up because I wanted to focus on how the authors write about how it is that WOMEN choose these alleged CP men to be with in the first place and/or once in these relationships (They found these men desirable for many diverse reasons), when they go south, try to hang in there against all odds to make it work, banging their head against the wall in their efforts, instead of doing something healthy for themselves. So this pattern of being in dead-end relationships has to do with the women and the choices THEY make.

Basically what CP has in common with everything else, the way I see it, is that when certain events occur that signal permanency in a relationship to the CP, it can trigger the CP to experience anxiety over the prospect and he or she then looks to bail, usually doing so by passive-aggressive behaviors rather than taking the high road and just ending things.

But that passive-aggressive behavior aside, I think the commonality is this: they don't really want to be committed to that person. It's not that they would mind having a LTR, it's that they don't want it with THAT particular person.

Imagine if someone who cherished their space was in a relationship with another person who respects that. Then when they draw close, instead of demanding more time from him or her, or wiggling into every facet of their partner's lives, they continue to permit or create space. The alleged CP then wouldn't feel "trapped" or "suffocated" or "overwhelmed", which, BTW, we'd ALL feel by someone clinging to us, unless we're very needy ourselves and thus lapping it up.

They could easily continue in an exclusive relationship with such a person by simply not wanting more and enhjoying the ride as it was. But NOOOO. Instead, they push, they get rejected.

I think it's simple: two people get intimate fast before they really know each other. She likes him and draws closer and then usually wants MORE. Starts to BOND. The other person says to himself, "Woah! I don't really know this person, and from what I can see, she's nice BUT she's not everything I'm looking for, so I'm not sure... so the last thing I want to do is commit to her right now". She takes the rejection and spins it because that's our POP CULTURE making itself manifest. "Oh, he's commitment phobic!" "Oh, men are afraid of strong women". 50 years ago, according to the pop culture then, they would've said, "He got cold feet!" or "He's a life-long bachelor!".

A guy just wants to feel comfortable, desired, be in lust and have a relatively smooth ride without drama, hysterics, roller coasters or red flags. Until he's found a woman who touches most of his buttons, unless he settles for less, he's going to hear armchair psychological pop evaluations from the women he rejects... as well as from her girlfriends.
 

Señor Fingers

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Rollo Tomassi said:
No one is 'afraid of intimacy'.
In the physical sense I would agree. Who doesn't want a hug or a BJ?

But intimacy is not just physical. There are some powerful emotions involved and this is the part that scares a lot of people. To be truly intimate requires a certain degree of vulnerability. You have to give of yourself and trust something that is out of your control (another person with free will).

As happy as you may be with someone, there is always the chance that they will not be loyal, or live up to your expectations. You may end up giving everything and getting nothing. You might get played for a fool. In short, there are no guarantees for anyone against getting their heart broken!

Some people throw themselves at this risk foolishly without thinking. These same folks are usually the ones who get burned and wind up swearing on the graves of their ancestors that they will never take that chance again. They emotionally close themselves and do indeed fear the risks involved with intimacy.

I don't see either approach as inherently right or wrong. It's all part of calibrating one's personal boundaries and standards.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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I'd agree with this, intimacy has physical, emotional and intellectual elements to it, but you're only stressing my first point. Intimacy is the vehicle or the currency of what's at stake in rejection. It's what you put on the table as your own bet. No one's afraid of intimacy, in fact it's what we most often strive for, we're just afraid of losing our bet, so we do everything imaginable to hedge that bet with buffers. Rejection is naked and harsh and the more we put of ourselves into the wager that we'll qualify for intimate acceptance the more it smashes a person in the ego - who/what they are isn't enough. When we're younger we don't know any better so we bet it all and get squashed. The more resilient pick themselves up, have another go and get better from experience. Other's get bitter and shake their fists at the world and try to change the game, while still other, the majority, progressively insulate themselves through the use of a variety of buffers. They still recognize a need to risk their egos in order to get to intimacy, but they look for methods to deaden the pain, lessen the impact, of that rejection. So women become 'objects' and men become 'their problem'. As I said before, it's much easier to accept rejection from a 'thing' rather than a person.
 

Señor Fingers

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Intimacy is the vehicle or the currency of what's at stake in rejection.
That's an interesting take. I've always felt that the stakes centered around our self-esteem or validation, and the currency was the personal investment, in the form of emotions and more importantly, TIME (our most finite and valuable commodity)

You seem to echo the first part of this sentiment here:

Rejection is naked and harsh and the more we put of ourselves into the wager that we'll qualify for intimate acceptance the more it smashes a person in the ego - who/what they are isn't enough.
My personal take is that most people really misunderstand the nature of intimacy, often confusing it with instant gratification. They don't understand that trust must come first and that takes time. They tend to accept things at face value, literally, granting their heart to the first pretty face they are "fortunate" enough to kiss. As we both know, disaster is a damn-near guarantee in these situations!
 

STR8UP

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Hmmm....

I would go so far as to say that there is not a mentally sane person out there who does not long for intimacy. And I'm talking intimacy on ALL levels.

It's a natural part of the "human experience". We are social animals. We long to connect with others, and intimacy is important to feeling "whole".

As much of as I am a proponent of facts and logic over emotion, there is no getting away from the FACT that humans (myself included) have certain wants and needs.

I can acknowledge that "fear of commitment" exists. I CANNOT acknowledge that "fear of intimacy" does. I mean, I suppose that there exists a protection mode of sorts when you have been hurt by someone in the past, but it just cracks me up to hear these women I know go on and on about how I'm "afraid to put myself out there" because my last girlfriend "damaged" me for everyone else. What a load of sh!t. I would love to find intimacy, but all I get is a series of unfulfilling encounters with women who aren't worthy of sharing my intimacy with.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Latinoman

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STR8UP said:
Every time I hear those words I want to shake some sense into the woman who is saying them!

What a bunch of CRAP.

Who is "afraid" of intimacy?

Out of the handful of women who I know pretty well, almost every single on eof them says that I am "afraid of commitment" or something equally annoying to try to explain why I have chosen NOT to pursue a relationship with them or one of their friends.

Am I afraid of commitment? Not with the right woman!

Am I afraid of intimacy? Hell no! I LONG for intimacy! What I wouldn't give to have a woman to share great moments with, to touch and hold, and.....you know, all that good stuff.

I was talking to a good female friend of mine the other night, the one who is hopelessly hung up on another friend of mine and basically shuns every opportunity to date (although she vehemently denies it).

We were comparing my "love life" to hers. For some reason she believes that I have all of the passion and intimacy I need, that my desire to have a special someone is always satiated by the fact that I hook up here and there.

I tried to explain to her that I would LOVE nothing more than to meet a woman i could spend some time with, but that most of these encounters I have had over the past couple of years have been for the most part meaningless, and have left me completely unfulfilled.

And she just doesn't get it! This is the same woman who will tell me that I'm "afraid to put myself out there", since I dated her best friend but didn't step up to the plate.

So on one hand she's telling me that she thinks that I have a great love life, and the next she's "scolding" me for not putting myself out there and ALLOWING myself to have a great love life. WTF????

See, women don't even know what they are saying when they say stuff like this. It's a default response.

"He doesn't like me, so therefore he is afraid of intimacy/commitment".

Oh no....it couldn't be that I don't like HER personally! It MUST be something external. He must be afraid to get close to someone. Yea, that's it!

It's actually sort of comical when you become conscious of women saying this and understand why they do. Just more proof that women are generally more insecure than men and are for the most part incapable of holding themselves accountable.
No offense, but I think your friend is a phucking idiot. In fact, she does not represent women in general.
 

Señor Fingers

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STR8UP said:
I would go so far as to say that there is not a mentally sane person out there who does not long for intimacy. And I'm talking intimacy on ALL levels.
You could say the same thing about success. Everyone wants to succeed, but many are actually afraid of the responsibility that comes with it.

I can acknowledge that "fear of commitment" exists. I CANNOT acknowledge that "fear of intimacy" does.
What I find interesting is that you view them as being mutually exclusive. For me intimacy and commitment go hand-in-hand, because in order to really share myself (beyond the scope of a quick lay), there must be a certain measure of trust, which comes with time, which requires a commitment of some kind on both sides.

... it just cracks me up to hear these women I know go on and on about how I'm "afraid to put myself out there" because my last girlfriend "damaged" me for everyone else. What a load of sh!t. I would love to find intimacy, but all I get is a series of unfulfilling encounters with women who aren't worthy of sharing my intimacy with.
If your first reaction is laughter, then such claims are either totally baseless and people are not "getting" you, or you are really just running from yourself.

TO be totally honest, I have jumped to the same conclusion about you as well, though I admit I could be totally off. Really, only you (and maybe a close friend) are equipped to make that call.

Either way, the fact that people go "on and on" about this should be telling you something.
 

Luthor Rex

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Señor Fingers said:
Either way, the fact that people go "on and on" about this should be telling you something.
Yeah it should tell him that most people are idiots.

LOL
 

STR8UP

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Señor Fingers said:
You could say the same thing about success. Everyone wants to succeed, but many are actually afraid of the responsibility that comes with it.
True, but intimacy is a different animal. It can be achieved without "pain" so to speak. You usually have to grow into success. That takes hard work, and most people aren't prepared to go there.

What I find interesting is that you view them as being mutually exclusive. For me intimacy and commitment go hand-in-hand, because in order to really share myself (beyond the scope of a quick lay), there must be a certain measure of trust, which comes with time, which requires a commitment of some kind on both sides.
I never said they were mutually exclusive. But I did say they are completely different. Commitment implies sacrifice, whereas intimacy in itself doesn't require anything nearly so constraining.

If your first reaction is laughter, then such claims are either totally baseless and people are not "getting" you, or you are really just running from yourself.

TO be totally honest, I have jumped to the same conclusion about you as well, though I admit I could be totally off. Really, only you (and maybe a close friend) are equipped to make that call.

Either way, the fact that people go "on and on" about this should be telling you something.
No, not people, it's WOMEN.

Women who I have either rejected for a long term commitment, or their friends who simply parrot the same lines.

I'm not afraid of a damn thing. I would LOVE to share intimacy with someone, and I am definitely not opposed to the idea of a committed relationship with the right woman.

Hell, I find myself trying to share some form of intimacy with these women in my recent past, despite the fact that it's kind of awkward to be looking for that when you know that it's not headed in that direction.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Interesting how commitment becomes a "fear" when it's not in one's own favor 'eh?

"Oh him? Ah, he's just afraid of commitment." See how that works? Kind of like you're shirking your obligation to committing? Almost questioning your adulthood or your manhood. This is just shaming couched in a social contrivance. Same with a "fear of intimacy"; if you were mature and a "real man" you'd see her for the goddess she is. But no, you're afraid, you're a coward, you're less than a Man for not recognizing it. Nowhere is there a second thought that you may simply be more cautious or discerning. Oh no, you've got to be kept in a state of shame, you have to be in self-doubt about your own reasons for not committing. "Gee, maybe she's right, maybe I am jaded from being hurt, maybe I'm not really supposed to be enjoying this freedom from the liabilities of commitment?"
 

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Interesting how commitment becomes a "fear" when it's not in one's own favor 'eh?

"Oh him? Ah, he's just afraid of commitment." See how that works? Kind of like you're shirking your obligation to committing? Almost questioning your adulthood or your manhood. This is just shaming couched in a social contrivance. Same with a "fear of intimacy"; if you were mature and a "real man" you'd see her for the goddess she is. But no, you're afraid, you're a coward, you're less than a Man for not recognizing it. Nowhere is there a second thought that you may simply be more cautious or discerning. Oh no, you've got to be kept in a state of shame, you have to be in self-doubt about your own reasons for not committing. "Gee, maybe she's right, maybe I am jaded from being hurt, maybe I'm not really supposed to be enjoying this freedom from the liabilities of commitment?"

Yeah that pretty much nails it. It's not like any woman is going to admit that the real reason a guy doesn't want commitment and intimacy is because the woman isn't worth it heh.
 

Tazman

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Ketostix said:
Rollo Tomassi said:
Interesting how commitment becomes a "fear" when it's not in one's own favor 'eh?

"Oh him? Ah, he's just afraid of commitment." See how that works? Kind of like you're shirking your obligation to committing? Almost questioning your adulthood or your manhood. This is just shaming couched in a social contrivance. Same with a "fear of intimacy"; if you were mature and a "real man" you'd see her for the goddess she is. But no, you're afraid, you're a coward, you're less than a Man for not recognizing it. Nowhere is there a second thought that you may simply be more cautious or discerning. Oh no, you've got to be kept in a state of shame, you have to be in self-doubt about your own reasons for not committing. "Gee, maybe she's right, maybe I am jaded from being hurt, maybe I'm not really supposed to be enjoying this freedom from the liabilities of commitment?"

Yeah that pretty much nails it. It's not like any woman is going to admit that the real reason a guy doesn't want commitment and intimacy is because the woman isn't worth it heh.
Agreed, especially since I only see these issues when one person is less into the other, even if by a small margin sometimes. I forget the saying, but it's something like "you're only as faithful as your options".
 

Tazman

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This also reminds me of an episode of The Real World I saw, must have been years ago, where a guy told one of the female house mates that she couldn't "get" a particular guy she liked. Her reaction to that was much worse than I expected. You would've thought this guy killed her family.

Telling a woman she isn't hot enough or whatever to attract a guy is like telling a guy his d-ck is too small to please any woman. They really are extremely sensitive to being rejected. I guess that's why they do whatever they can to circumvent it. As stated, saying one is afraid of commitment is just another way to deal with rejection.......denial.
 

Señor Fingers

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STR8UP said:
No, not people, it's WOMEN.

Women who I have either rejected for a long term commitment, or their friends who simply parrot the same lines.
^^ I've found myself in this situation as well.. it is awkward to say the least.. these are precisely the kind of gals you usually do not want to go out with as they will c0ckblock you at the drop of a hat!

How do you cope with these chicks? I couldnt take it and eventually just built a new circle for myself.

Hell, I find myself trying to share some form of intimacy with these women in my recent past, despite the fact that it's kind of awkward to be looking for that when you know that it's not headed in that direction.
Very telling and worthy of its own post I think. Could not count how many of my friends (male and female) try to make something work that clearly does not. It's almost like a form of emotional masochism, and then people have the nerve to complain to me after I warned them.. ugh!

:cuss:

Rollo Tomassi said:
"Oh him? Ah, he's just afraid of commitment." See how that works? Kind of like you're shirking your obligation to committing? Almost questioning your adulthood or your manhood. This is just shaming couched in a social contrivance.
Hehe.. much along the same lines as "Oh you must be gay then". I can def agree with you here: some folks just can't handle the possibility that they will not be instantly worshipped by everyone.

I always enjoyed playing on this type of insecurity. One of my favorite come-backs for the gay accusation is "The only time I ever consider homosexuality is whenever you are around". Heh.. that pretty much leaves em speechless! Suppose it could work for other accusations.

After pondering this thread yesterday I came to the conclusion that it is actually healthy to have a certain degree of fear in regards to commitment. Not in the "I'm gonna sh!t my pants" sense, but in the "fear of God" sense. Such strong unions and ties should not be taken lightly - our hearts (and in some cases our sanity) is on the line!
 

mrRuckus

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LovelyLady said:
how is it you are willing to lower your self in giving your self to a person that is less than what you say you believe you are worthy of?

Because sex isn't "giving your self." Another mostly female idea. Men don't bond nearly as much through that act.


I have AFC friends too that are "below" me, but if i gave up afc friends i'd have like 1 friend and beer pong sucks without a partner.

--

Isn't this fear of intimacy thing just risk/reward? As far as iqqi, it doesn't sound like she fears it. She just doesn't want it.
 

LovelyLady

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Creating the Intimate Relationship: Differentiating a Solid Foundation from the Build

OOPS I put this in the wrong thread Sorry!
 

Interceptor

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No problemo.
It happens, Ms. Lovely.

I will follow your link and post there.
I'm sure Str8up is cool with it.
 
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